Fire Tubby

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#1nHkyCfbBsbDncSolarDebat said:
I can sum it up in 50 words.

Put up or shut up. You want Tubby fired, come up with the 2.5 mil to pay for it.
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I appreciate you being one of the few optimists here. But give me a break. A school that keeps a coach solely because of a $2.5 million buyout but pays $800K just to make the football schedule marginally easier should be ashamed of itself. Tubby should stay or go on the merits, not the amount of the buyout. Otherwise Norwood gets a big huge F for his first year on the job.
 

About all this talk of the Gophers having 4 future NBAers on the roster?! Serious?!

After they've been exposed by quality Big Ten opponents, my guess is the NBA is not going to be holding their breath waiting for any of the Gophers to graduate. Cept maybe Trev. Hollins will probably be on a wait and see list.


I think too many people are going off of their impressions of how good these players LOOKED up until the time we were ranked #8, and before we started getting into a funk.


If we truly had 4 future NBAers on our squad, it wouldn't matter how good a coach Tubby was.

Didn't his Kentucky Title team supposedly win the title DESPITE Tubby being their coach?!
 

Haven't you read the threads discussing the 800,000?! It's really more like 400,000. And I simply trust that he considers that an investment that will have a bigger return. Doens't mean I agree, but I trust that he had his reasons and that since he was accomplished enough to get the job, maybe those reasons were more well thought out than 90% of the posts that are posted here at GH.
 

#1nHkyCfbBsbDncSolarDebat said:
IF the only thing that counted in the world was college bb and college fb, I'd seriously believe that the Gophers would be better off in the WCC or something.

Getting recruits to come to our Frozen Tundra is tough, esp when UMn is reknown for the lack of support given to its fb and bb programs. And when we have to play 1/2 to 2/3rds of our in conf games vs Top 25 ranked teams every year, well, that just makes it even tougher.

Just this year, for example, in bb, we'd easily be in the Top 3 in the SEC, Big 12, Pac and probably the ACC as well. We'd probably be right about where we are now, in the BE, but in fb, we'd do much better playing in the BE



BUT, the reality of the situation is that cbb and cfb are NOT the only things that matter in the world, and in fact, they matter FAR TOO MUCH as it is. But because of this reason, we are NEVER leaving the Big Ten.


So, what is the solution?!


Either just give up caring so much about cfb and cbb, and just be happy when we do well on the rare occasions its going to happen, OR...


MAKE THE INVESTMENT REQUIRED to bring about the desired affect. PONY UP sports fans. You want Tubby Fired, PAY FOR IT.


Come on, PUT UP or SHUT UP.


Or, the other option is to go out into the world, prove yourself to be the expert coach or AD that you think you are, and get the U to hire you and then fix the problems yourself.


Oh wait?! None of the critics that post here COULD GET EITHER OF THOSE JOBS. Am I right?!


You people, how do you live with yourselves?! Man, I watch sports for the purpose of ENTERTAINING myself. I'm bored this winter and so I TRY to come to the Gopherhole for entertainment, but all of the negativity is far from entertaining.

Maybe I do accept mediocrity, and the thing is, I ENJOY life so much more than you do, I bet. Because I'm not upset over this loss. I'm looking forward to the next game, and hoping that we do as Illinois has done, and pull off some upsets and get back into the race. And if we lose the next 4, well, I'll just watch the hockey and wrestling teams and all the other fine Gopher sports teams that are doing well this year, and will wait and see and hope for better things in the future.


So I guess I DO accept mediocrity. Yep, I'm coming to accept that and am going to stop living in denial. I'm also a bandwagon Gopher fan. I just watch the successful teams. Thankfully there are so many to choose from. And if, like back in the late 80's and early 90's, there are not many good teams to follow, well, then that will kind of suck, but thankfully I have a full life and lots of friends and family and other activities. Whether the Gophers win or lose, doesn't affect my life, or at least it shouldn't. I have lots of vacation time this winter, so I'm going all out trying to have fun following the Gophers, but have let the negative nancies here bring me down on occasions. I guess I rolled with it because I enjoy the challenge of confronting their bs with counter-points, playing the devils advocate. I'm not lying about anything, I'm just not a true believer for either camp right now. I'd be 100% behind firing Tubby if I felt like our situation would improve if we did fire him. I'm not a huge fan of his. But I will defend most anyone when the critic is spouting bu11sh1t.

I HATE exaggeration when its used in criticism.

I hate simple minded blowhards.

I hate bandwagon fans who are quick to vent about their frustrations.


What is wrong with holding your tongue, thinking before you speak, or post?


You people are what is wrong with sports today.


From T-ball up through jv and b-squad and varsity to college and then to the pros, our sick society and its unrighteous ways of thinking about everything makes me seriously consider giving up on sports altogether.

Are there positives about playing and following sports?! Sure there are, but do they outweight the negatives?! I think they used to, but I'm not sure anymore?! I LOVE being a Gopher fan, but its my attachment and love of the Gophers that makes it almost impossible for me to give up on sports. I could do without the Vikes and Twins and T-Wolves and Wild and all of pro sports easily. And the olympics?! Please, too easy. And when I have ignored sports, my life has been better for it. But like I said, I truly have loved the Gophers my whole life and the Gophers are the only reason I have given sports any attention in the last 25 years of my life.

I used to question how brilliant professors at the U could ever think it would be a good thing to do away with football at the U, but I'm starting to understand why they may have had such negative feelings towards football. BB is not as bad, but its close.



Well, I doubt anyone truly cares one way or the other, but if I all of a sudden disappear and never return to the GH, it will be all the negative nancies who drove me away.



All I have to say to them is, PUT UP or SHUT UP. I'm not willing to pony up my own money, I have higher priorities, and so because of that, I'm not going to criticize the U and how they handle the athletic dept, I'm just going to be a loyal fan through the good and the bad. I guess I DO accept mediocrity.

And that is my American Right, and imho, my MORAL responsibility as well.
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WOW, are sure your name isn't Leo Tolstoy?
 



I went into the season optimistic, I think that if this team doesn't get to the sweet sixteen, it might be time to move on at coach.
 

I still argue that the 2010 team had more talent than this team, certainly way more depth, which this team doesn't have and won't have for at least two more years, but for reasons discussed a million times on this board we will never know how good the 2010 team would have been because they were never completely healthy or eligible as a group at any point that year.
 

So glad I wasn't able to watch tonight's game both because we lost and it kept me away from here. No doubt it's been another disappointing game. Not sure what to think. I think we still have to wait until the end of the season to decide if he should be fired or not. I'm not against it if we fail to make it to the tournament. That would be ridiculous and would mean we need to go another direction.
 

i think it depends on how the season ends up, Tubby is paid 2 million to produce, another losing B1G season and I don't see how it could be justified bringing him back, you just can't concede and say losing seasons are okay.
 



bemidjigopher said:
I still argue that the 2010 team had more talent than this team, certainly way more depth, which this team doesn't have and won't have for at least two more years, but for reasons discussed a million times on this board we will never know how good the 2010 team would have been because they were never completely healthy or eligible as a group at any point that year.
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Yeah, that team would have been really good with Nolen for the whole season and with White and Mbakwe. The next year, 2010-11's team would have been really good too if it had Nolen, Joseph, White, Mbakwe, Justin Cobbs, and Paul Carter still on the team, the only significant contributors I can think we would have lost from the previous year in that scenario would have been Damian Johnson and Lawrence Westbrook.
 

bemidjigopher said:
I still argue that the 2010 team had more talent than this team, certainly way more depth, which this team doesn't have and won't have for at least two more years, but for reasons discussed a million times on this board we will never know how good the 2010 team would have been because they were never completely healthy or eligible as a group at any point that year.
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100% agree with that. This team is less talented than 2010. Healthier, but not as talented.
 

Yeah, you guys are right about both 2010 and 2011, but what you forget is that Tubby injured those players on purpose and did everything he could to convince those who transferred to do so. Tubby is a horrible coach and all the bad luck we've had is HIS FAULT.

And we won a Big Ten title with just the Iron 5, why can't we win this year with little to no depth at all, esp when 4 of our starters are gaurantees to get drafted into the NBA?!

It's not like there are 5 other Big Ten teams all ranked among the Top 15 teams in the country by at least 2 of the 5 most recognized computer polls, that we have to compete with.

Or that a team like Illinois, despite going into a game with the #1 ranked team in the country with only a 2-7 conf record, was still ranked Top 50 in the RPI, was able to win that game, and then make 11 three pointers in their game vs us.
 

The bench is crap. Oto should not be playing D1 basketball. Who scouted this guy, Stevie Wonder? Our "shooter" can't shoot.
 





We've been frustrating, but that doesn't change the fact that we've been ranked most of the year, would make the tournament easily if the year ended right now (and will likely still do some comfortably, assuming we can be .500 in B10 play), and have only 2 bad losses all year.

I am frustrated with this team. But I don't understand this thread. Who would we get that's an upgrade? I'm a huge homer, but even I don't think we're a top 30 NCAA job... I don't think there's an upgrade to be had. If we're just talking a change to make a change, then you really need to factor in that buyout... that's a lot of money only to take a chance on some random upstart/coach.

Now, if we knew with certainly we could land someone like Shaka Smart, etc, someone who actually could be an upgrade as opposed to just a change, then I'd say we should consider doing so because that could be an actual upgrade instead of just making some change to do it. But people are acting like it's some obvious and easy decision to fire him when it is certainly neither of those things. If we make the tourney, I can't really see a scenario where he's fired. I think it's pretty dang unlikely even if we somehow miss the tournament.

Do people really think he'll be fired? Or do they just want that to happen because they're frustrated? I just can't see it.

Edit: Amelia just tweeted to Nadine that "if he doesn't win a game in the tournament, watch out" or something very similar. I wonder if I'm missing something. I just cannot see him being fired after we make the tournament... but apparently that's a real possibility?
 

gall0249 said:
Rodney and Trevor are projected 2nd round picks this year. The Hollins brothers are projected picks for next years draft.
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So they could get drafted I agree. Do you think all four are NBA talents? Personally I think Austin Hollins has the best shot of the four?
Be honest, if they had 4 real NBA talents the team would be a lot better.
 

gopherbadgerman said:
So they could get drafted I agree. Do you think all four are NBA talents? Personally I think Austin Hollins has the best shot of the four?
Be honest, if they had 4 real NBA talents the team would be a lot better.
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Not agreeing or disagreeing but getting drafted vs making a team are two different things with respect to the NBA
 

I've seen much better Gopher players NOT make it to the NBA, so not sure why so many people think we have a roster stocked with NBA bound talent?

And the way they are playing recently, my guess is that their NBA stock drops every time they step on the court to play.




And seriously, all this talk about Shaka Smart being a sure thing?! Really?


The ONLY way I'd be ok with us bringing in someone like Shaka Smart, who in my opinion is not a proven winner, is if the Big 3 of 2014 all stated publicly that they couldn't come to Minnesota unless Smart was going to be the new coach.

Thats just not going to happen, so, I'm going to continue to hope that Tubby rights the ship before its too late, and that we can go test out our team in the NCAA tourney. Until there is no hope left for this season, I think its a waste of time to talk about firing him or who his replacement should be.



The impression I get is that Minnesota is NOT a highly sought after coaching position. NO established coach wants the job, its WAY too much of a risk vs the possible reward. Up and comers MIGHT take it if we paid them enough and if they didn't have better offers, but Shaka's probably going to have lots of options.
 

#1nHkyCfbBsbDncSolarDebat said:
I've seen much better Gopher players NOT make it to the NBA, so not sure why so many people think we have a roster stocked with NBA bound talent?

And the way they are playing recently, my guess is that their NBA stock drops every time they step on the court to play.




And seriously, all this talk about Shaka Smart being a sure thing?! Really?


The ONLY way I'd be ok with us bringing in someone like Shaka Smart, who in my opinion is not a proven winner, is if the Big 3 of 2014 all stated publicly that they couldn't come to Minnesota unless Smart was going to be the new coach.

Thats just not going to happen, so, I'm going to continue to hope that Tubby rights the ship before its too late, and that we can go test out our team in the NCAA tourney. Until there is no hope left for this season, I think its a waste of time to talk about firing him or who his replacement should be.



The impression I get is that Minnesota is NOT a highly sought after coaching position. NO established coach wants the job, its WAY too much of a risk vs the possible reward. Up and comers MIGHT take it if we paid them enough and if they didn't have better offers, but Shaka's probably going to have lots of options.
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Nothing's ever garaunteed but the best big time coaches were almost always the best mid major coaches. Future uncertainty is no reason to maintain perpetual mediocrity.
 

Minnesotagg said:
No, I have been a fan for 50 years.
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I understand that you're banned and can't reply to this but...Seriously? You're over 50? Hahahahaha. All this time I thought you were just some hot-head know-it-all who had been drinking all day. And you still might fit that description, but to do it as a man of you age is really hysterical.

And I just need to get this out of my system. Really? Hahahahahahaha.
 


To assume that Shaka Smart is one of the best mid-major coaches is, in my opinion, still a little premature.

He has less than 5 years of head coaching experience. Lets wait and see if he even gets this years VCU team into the tourney, first, and then see how he does with a team that is mostly or all his recruits, vs making a run with what was mostly his predecessors recruits. Same thing all of you Fire Tubby people want to hold against Tubby, you ignore about Shaka.

There are any number of circumstances that all could have helped bring about that run to the FF that do not involve Shaka being some sort of coaching genius.


Seems if he was such an incredible coach, his present team wouldn't struggle to beat much lower ranked teams after his team builds a big lead on that lesser opponent. Tubby gets skewered when he does that, but Shaka's a genius?!
 

It's hilarious that people think Smart would automatically come here just because of our AD. Please.
 

I have held off on the Tubby bashing but I am fully convinced he can't coach offense nor make in game adjustments. It is absolutely sickening to watch when this team struggles to shoot and run any semblance of a scoring offense. This team has Sweet sixteen talent and they might not even make the dance if they continue to play this way. If it wasn't for the folks in my section I would probably just watch from TV.
 

I tried to start this header 2 weeks ago but they blocked me from posting it. This guy is one of the worst coaches in the big 10. He is putting in the motions, he knows nothing about motivation, and his team under performs and gets worse as the season goes on.....

Pull the plug on this fraud...........
 

JDGopher said:
We've been frustrating, but that doesn't change the fact that we've been ranked most of the year, would make the tournament easily if the year ended right now (and will likely still do some comfortably, assuming we can be .500 in B10 play), and have only 2 bad losses all year.

I am frustrated with this team. But I don't understand this thread. Who would we get that's an upgrade? I'm a huge homer, but even I don't think we're a top 30 NCAA job... I don't think there's an upgrade to be had. If we're just talking a change to make a change, then you really need to factor in that buyout... that's a lot of money only to take a chance on some random upstart/coach.

Now, if we knew with certainly we could land someone like Shaka Smart, etc, someone who actually could be an upgrade as opposed to just a change, then I'd say we should consider doing so because that could be an actual upgrade instead of just making some change to do it. But people are acting like it's some obvious and easy decision to fire him when it is certainly neither of those things. If we make the tourney, I can't really see a scenario where he's fired. I think it's pretty dang unlikely even if we somehow miss the tournament.

Do people really think he'll be fired? Or do they just want that to happen because they're frustrated? I just can't see it.

Edit: Amelia just tweeted to Nadine that "if he doesn't win a game in the tournament, watch out" or something very similar. I wonder if I'm missing something. I just cannot see him being fired after we make the tournament... but apparently that's a real possibility?
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I could see him being fired.

Reading about Mike Ellis who came here with Teague from VCU, looks like he has some connection with villa 7 (not sure the full details of the program - GW maybe does?) but it resulted in Shaka at VCU.

I trust these guys to make a great hire if Tubby is let go. Maybe not splashy (or could be I guess), but a good hire.

All that said, one of our current players does have a dad who is a head coach ... Lol
 

#1nHkyCfbBsbDncSolarDebat said:
To assume that Shaka Smart is one of the best mid-major coaches is, in my opinion, still a little premature.

He has less than 5 years of head coaching experience. Lets wait and see if he even gets this years VCU team into the tourney, first, and then see how he does with a team that is mostly or all his recruits, vs making a run with what was mostly his predecessors recruits. Same thing all of you Fire Tubby people want to hold against Tubby, you ignore about Shaka.

There are any number of circumstances that all could have helped bring about that run to the FF that do not involve Shaka being some sort of coaching genius.


Seems if he was such an incredible coach, his present team wouldn't struggle to beat much lower ranked teams after his team builds a big lead on that lesser opponent. Tubby gets skewered when he does that, but Shaka's a genius?!
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NCAA tournament wins are all that matters. AD's are hired to project, if not they'd sit around waiting for the perfect moment and never get anything done. Also interesting is that Shaka beat his predecessor by 19 points earlier this season.
 

#1nHkyCfbBsbDncSolarDebat said:
I've seen much better Gopher players NOT make it to the NBA, so not sure why so many people think we have a roster stocked with NBA bound talent?

And the way they are playing recently, my guess is that their NBA stock drops every time they step on the court to play.

And seriously, all this talk about Shaka Smart being a sure thing?! Really?

The ONLY way I'd be ok with us bringing in someone like Shaka Smart, who in my opinion is not a proven winner, is if the Big 3 of 2014 all stated publicly that they couldn't come to Minnesota unless Smart was going to be the new coach..
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The NBA drafts on potential, hence the love for Rodney. There are guys who may be better overall, but the NBA looks for one elite skill. And Rodney has athleticism. Plus he is a pretty solid defender.

Someone mentioned on twitter Dane Fife could be a great replacement. Be tough to land him, but that the big 3 already would have a relationship with him from MSU recruiting.
 

Is it possible to design an in-bounds play from under the basket that would result in a score ? We took it out 10 times there,and every time it was passed 60 feet into the backcourt. You would think a five-man coaching staff could come up with something a little more creative than that.
 

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