Fire Tubby

As a whole, Tubby has done a great job at recruiting talent. Hollins, Hollins, Williams, Mbakwe are all talented players. Add in Joseph, Cobbs, White, and Iverson and that's a lot more talent than we've seen at the U in a long time. Problem is half of them left early or never played. Talent doesn't make much of a difference if you can't get the guys to play together and/or believe in the system.
 

That's a rather misleading statement if you consider the history of the NCAA Basketball Tournment.

Not really considering both programs are 100+ years old. That's pretty much apples to apples. Does the fact that Bo Ryan has more NCAA appearances in the last 11 years than the Gophers have had in the last 73 years make it any better? The fact that it's a lot easier to make the dance now contradicts your argument. If it's easier to make the tourney because of the expansion of the tournament field, then shouldn't it be easier for the Gophers to make it?
 

Yeah, it was much tougher to make the tourney before 1985.

A better way to look at it may be conference wins. There have been 38 BT seasons (not counting this year) since teams started playing 18 conference games. Just six times in those 38 have a Gophers team won 11 or more conference games (two those six technically don't even count due to sanctions). Bo Ryan has done it nine times in 11 years.

It's a lot easier to make the tourney now so that makes it more of a concern that a midwest team like Wisconsin has made the tourney 16 times since the expansion and the Gophers have made it 9 times -- 5 legitimately.
 

Let's just get through the season before we get all zombie like and start eating everybody's brains like they were chips and salsa.
 



If we aren't there yet talent wise, that begs the question "why?"

I think Williams, Trevor and Dre are much better athletes and basketball players (as individuals) than Berggren, Evans or Jackson, but as a cohesive unit, they simply aren't. Is it lack of development? Bad fit? Poor recruiting?

Williams does two things well; dunking and blocking shots. Trevor does three things well; blocking shots, dunking and rebounding. Dre does two things well; shoot from long range and from short range. Complete, or well rounded, basketball players they aren't. Better athletes-yes. Better basketball players-not necessarily.
 



That site is about as reliable as a wet fart.....

If i see one more link to that website as support to anything let alone NBA draft stock I might poke my eyes out with a fork.

Actually this website has a very strong Google ranking if that means anything to you. Usually a strong ranking means the site has a lot of respectable websites linking to this particular website. However, it's a bit odd that both Hollins' are projected to be drafted by the T-Wolves But who knows..
 



Actually this website has a very strong Google ranking if that means anything to you. Usually a strong ranking means the site has a lot of respectable websites linking to this particular website. However, it's a bit odd that both Hollins' are projected to be drafted by the T-Wolves But who knows..

Define high google ranking.
 

Define high google ranking.

If you use Google Chrome, check out the SEO Moz Toolbar. This will tell you the "strength" of all the websites on Google. When a website has a high ranking, it usually means that high quality sites are linking to this website. There are other factors that go into it but this is the main factor as to why a website like nbadraft.net has a stronger ranking. Obviously this doesn't mean that the mock draft projections are any more right or wrong when compared to some other website, but the fact that this site has 32,000+ websites linking to it makes it a viable website.
 


That site is about as reliable as a wet fart.....

If i see one more link to that website as support to anything let alone NBA draft stock I might poke my eyes out with a fork.

Lol this site is very reliable and typically is not that far off with players being drafted in the correct rounds and players actually being drafted. I am assuming you have no idea about draft rankings sites because if you did, you would know that. So please continue to throw fact-less posts out there....:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:
 



Lol this site is very reliable and typically is not that far off with players being drafted in the correct rounds and players actually being drafted. I am assuming you have no idea about draft rankings sites because if you did, you would know that. So please continue to throw fact-less posts out there....:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:


:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

True or false that site had all 4 of them on the radar pre 2013 season?
 

Back to the original topic of the thread:

I don't see them firing Tubby (unless some fat cat agrees to pay the buyout.) But, here is my thought -
after the season, Teague and Kaler sit down with Tubby, and lay it on the line - if you want to stay as Head Coach, you need to shake up your staff, recruit more aggressively, etc. Then, they tell Tubby it's your choice - you can "retire," or come back under our conditions. If they back him into a corner, he might decide to walk away, once he realizes the AD and administration do not support him.
Maybe pull a Maturi and take some BS no-show job to "earn" part of his buyout.
 

TBH if we make it in I don't think we make it past the 1st round. Any team that has decent scouting will have us shut down and we will score in the upper 40's or low 50's.

I see so much talent on this team. Just zero semblance on how to run a half court set or beat a zone.


This is well reasoned thought. Unlike the zombie, brain eating swill that know everything about nothing. They are zombies after all.
 

Back to the original topic of the thread:

I don't see them firing Tubby (unless some fat cat agrees to pay the buyout.) But, here is my thought -
after the season, Teague and Kaler sit down with Tubby, and lay it on the line - if you want to stay as Head Coach, you need to shake up your staff, recruit more aggressively, etc. Then, they tell Tubby it's your choice - you can "retire," or come back under our conditions. If they back him into a corner, he might decide to walk away, once he realizes the AD and administration do not support him.
Maybe pull a Maturi and take some BS no-show job to "earn" part of his buyout.

Tubby will turn 62 on 6/30.

What is the likelihood that he'll "change his ways"?

Given his demeanor / m.o., what is likelihood that he'll change?

Observing him, is he more likely to behave adaptively, or stubbornly?
 


Back to the original topic of the thread:

I don't see them firing Tubby (unless some fat cat agrees to pay the buyout.) But, here is my thought -
after the season, Teague and Kaler sit down with Tubby, and lay it on the line - if you want to stay as Head Coach, you need to shake up your staff, recruit more aggressively, etc. Then, they tell Tubby it's your choice - you can "retire," or come back under our conditions. If they back him into a corner, he might decide to walk away, once he realizes the AD and administration do not support him.
Maybe pull a Maturi and take some BS no-show job to "earn" part of his buyout.

But they do support him. Let me say it once again. We're going dancing this year, next year, and the year after. The AD and administration do not listen to fan boards, many of whom are still in high school and/or never played a day of varsity sports.
 

But they do support him. Let me say it once again. We're going dancing this year, next year, and the year after. The AD and administration do not listen to fan boards, many of whom are still in high school and/or never played a day of varsity sports.

Thats a bold statement. Regardless of the skid the team is on, may I ask what makes you think the long term talent on the team suggests they are making the NCAA's next year and the year after?
 

Thats a bold statement. Regardless of the skid the team is on, may I ask what makes you think the long term talent on the team suggests they are making the NCAA's next year and the year after?

The Big Ten is going to be down next year. Wisconsin loses three starters. Michigan loses 1 to 4 depending on who declares. Indiana loses 1 to 4. Ohio State loses its star. Michigan State loses alot of talent. Illinois loses three. The Gophers lose two. The Big Ten is going to be wide open next year
 

The Big Ten is going to be down next year. Wisconsin loses three starters. Michigan loses 1 to 4 depending on who declares. Indiana loses 1 to 4. Ohio State loses its star. Michigan State loses alot of talent. Illinois loses three. The Gophers lose two. The Big Ten is going to be wide open next year

That is a lot of losses conference wide...Indiana, Illinois, Michigan, Purdue, and OSU all have top 30 (Rivals) recruiting classes coming in as well. Gophs lose (In my opinion) their best and 4th best players...
 


Thats a bold statement. Regardless of the skid the team is on, may I ask what makes you think the long term talent on the team suggests they are making the NCAA's next year and the year after?

I come from a coaching family near St. Cloud. I played 2 sports in college. I coached at the JUCO level in the Chicago area and have a relative who is a head coach in the NFL. When it's time for a coaching change, it will come unto me as if in a dream. THIS IS NOT THE RIGHT TIME.
 

I come from a coaching family near St. Cloud. I played 2 sports in college. I coached at the JUCO level in the Chicago area and have a relative who is a head coach in the NFL. When it's time for a coaching change, it will come unto me as if in a dream. THIS IS NOT THE RIGHT TIME.

By that do you mean at this point in the season?
 

I am very sick and have a league game tomorrow. Just wondering if I can blame Tubby for this? Sure hope so, need someone to curse.
 

Back to the original topic of the thread:

I don't see them firing Tubby (unless some fat cat agrees to pay the buyout.) But, here is my thought -
after the season, Teague and Kaler sit down with Tubby, and lay it on the line - if you want to stay as Head Coach, you need to shake up your staff, recruit more aggressively, etc. Then, they tell Tubby it's your choice - you can "retire," or come back under our conditions. If they back him into a corner, he might decide to walk away, once he realizes the AD and administration do not support him.
Maybe pull a Maturi and take some BS no-show job to "earn" part of his buyout.

I like the "shake up the staff" angle but one thing about it puzzles me. I have seen/read in a couple of different places about how Jirza is ready or due for a head coaching job. If he is so good and worthy of a head job how can we need such a shakeup? is Saul so bad that he drags Jirza's competence down that far? It seems like Joe does a good job, based on our strength of schedule rating.

Saul is the obvious one to go- is that enough to make Tubby quit in disgust? I would guess the only thing that saved Saul from immediate dismissal is that the car he got the DUI in is a complimentary car from a dealership and not a University vehicle, but who pays the insurance on that?
 

There is a dynamic that few people seem to realize.

It's that the Big Ten just keeps getting better at basketball, and that the entire time, the last 25-50 years while this has been progressively happening, Minnesota has sucked the entire time. The only times it did not suck, was when we were CHEATING. And even when we weren't cheating and had decent coaches here who could have turned things around, we suffered bad luck(sex scandal and injury plague)


So, AT THE TIME Tubby was hired, the situation in the Big Ten for the previous 20 years, was Michigan, Indiana, Illinois, Ohio St and Mich St all making MULTIPLE Final Fours. All 5 of those teams have decent to great coaches right now, and better facilities than Minnesota. So good to great coach, better facilities, better history.

Then add to the mix, a Purdue team that has tons of Big Ten titles, and so, better history and facilities, and a Wisconsin team with a FF as well, better facilities and a GREAT coach.


That is what I'll call the Big 5/7.


On average, 2 of those teams are going to have a down year every year. Leaving the other 5 to have legit NCAA tourney bound seasons, EVERY YEAR.


What does that leave?!


NW and PSU whom Minnesota regularly beats, no matter who are coach, and how pathetic our facilities and for now, Nebraska is another cellar dweller. I doubt that they are going to remain so. They will put the money towards facilities and it seems lots of Gopher fans think highly of their coach. So they should move up into the next level soon. That level is, for now, the

Minny/Iowa Zone.


Each year, with all things being fair, average, predictable, sane, sensible, normal, etc., Minny and Iowa compete with the 2 Big 7/5 teams who are having their down year.

This year it's Purdue and Illinois having their down year, and part of Gopher fans thoughts that we'd have a good year was because we thought that Wisconsin was also going to be suffering through a down year. But that's not the case.



So, in light of all of this, and with the added factor that the Big 7/5 are having arguably their best year EVER, and the middle two are also arguably having their best year in awhile, as a unit that is, and the additional factor that we have NO BENCH, I'd say we are doing just about exactly as we should be doing.


This year is very similar to 1989, and we couldn't win a road game that year to save our life.
And the Big Ten is TOUGHER and DEEPER this year than that year.

And with an additional 2 teams to the conf this year compared to that year, a 6th place finish this year is equivalent to a 5th place finish back then.

Didn't we finish 6th in 1989 and 5th in 1990 when we went to the Elite 8

a 9-9 season got us to the Sweet 16. What was 90? 10-8 or 11-7?




People without a good sense of perspective think it should be easy to jump up into the upper echelon of the Big Ten?! But why should it be easy?! If it was so easy, why can't or doesn't PSU or NW or Iowa do it?!


Because the Upper Echelon has ALOT of advantages over the lower echelon teams, that just a decent coaching hire alone will not overcome.

The Tubby hire was a decent coaching hire, but without the upgrade in facilities, without the long history of success, and WITH the incredible amount of competition we face year in and year out in the Big Ten, we needed either, an INCREDIBLE coaching hire, I mean historically monumental kind of hire, like STEALING UNC, Duke or MSU's coach, and their entire recruiting class for that year.

OR, a decent coaching hire like Tubby, with LOTS OF LUCKY BREAKS to give us an equalizer.


But what happened was Tubby was not the greatest thing since sliced bread, we didn't follow up his hire with facility upgrades, we weren't able to convince an entire nation that we were a bb jaugernaut in the past, and we suffered BAD luck, not good luck, in being plagued with injuries.


Realistically, there is no reason outside of Tubby being the 2nd coming of cbb coaches, for us to have all of a sudden transformed into a perennial Top 5 Big Ten upper echelon team.

Our NOT suffering injuries in 2010 and having a deep run in the NCAAs would have helped our recruiting which would have resulted in our having a deep bench this year, which probably would have been the difference in several close losses, and we'd be a Top 5 team right now ready to dominate the Big Dance and nail down the Big 3 of 2014 and turn Tubby into a legend of a coach when he tired at age 70 on top of the world, having returned Minnesota to the Glory Years that we imagine we once had but really never did without cheating.

Instead, we DID suffer those injuries, it negatively affected our recruiting which has led to our NOT having a bench this season, which has led to several tough losses that would have otherwise been wins. AND, in the UBER conf that the Big Ten is, that leads this highly talented but shallow team to be ahead of NW, PSU, Neb, Purd and Iowa, right where it should be.

Thing is, like in 89 and 90, years we struggled vs crappy teams on the road in a loaded Big Ten, we made deep runs in the NCAA tourney.

So there is still a chance Karma could finally turn in our favor, we could make a late season run like VCU or UConn did, or like we did in 89/90 and we're kind of stuck with Tubby anyway, so why not hope for this Karmic turn, that could lead to our nabbing the Big 3, the fire in Tubby's old belly being rekindled and a rise up into the Upper Echelon of the Mighty Big Ten that otherwise would not be realistic without a MAJOR INVESTMENT of some kind, that Gopherland as a whole has not yet made and seems not willing to make.



So, for those who do not live in dreamland like maybe I do, PONY UP and PUT UP THE MONEY, make the investment needed to change things OR SHUT UP!!!
 

If Andre Hollins is the #10 pick or higher in the 2014 draft I will eat Dr. Don's dirty underwear.

Is this the site that also predicted Williams to be a lottery pick after his junior year?

No they didn't have him as a lottery, that was his freshmen year when expectations were High...they have him in his appropriate spot when he will actually be drafted. When the gophers were #9 Andre couldn't get enough praise and him being a lottery pick was not that far off. Damn band wagon fans!
 

No they didn't have him as a lottery, that was his freshmen year when expectations were High...they have him in his appropriate spot when he will actually be drafted. When the gophers were #9 Andre couldn't get enough praise and him being a lottery pick was not that far off. Damn band wagon fans!

I agree that when the gophs are playing better, he was playing better too, and he had a GREAT game in the Thanksgiving tournament. Do you honestly think after next year he is going to be the #10 overall pick?
 




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