Fire Tubby

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tikited said:
So, how do you explain Clem's two run's to the 16 & 8?
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Outperforming expectations.

tikited said:
Expecting a shot at success with a 25 year old All-Big type player-a guy who can pour in 40 on a given night-a high flying NBA talent-shouldn't be ridiculous.
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Mbakwe is 24, and just turned 2 weeks ago. Expecting a shot at success isn't ridiculous. You have a shot at success ever year. Expecting success at Minnesota is ridiculous. Everyone is free to ignore history all they want, but they will be disappointed far more often than not.

tikited said:
If Tubby wasn't hired to make these type of seasons possible then why is he here? We could have kept Molinari (sp.?) for a fraction of the cost.
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Who said those types of seasons aren't possible? It's possible that my son will attend Harvard, but I'm not going to expect him to. I'm not going to dress him in sackcloth and beat him with bamboo sticks if he doesn't get in.
 

dpodoll68 said:
Nope. Never said or insinuated any such thing. Unlike you, though, I can understand and appreciate the difference between possibilities and expectations. You're just mad because I told you all of this before the season even started. Sweet Sixteen expectations were ridiculous then, and they're even more ridiculous now. The Gophers will be lucky to make the Tournament if they continue playing this way. I, for one, am not surprised. The average Gopher team doesn't make the Tournament at all.
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I understand it quite well, thank you.

Your position is that a historically mediocre program should not/can not have higher aspirations and expectations. Even with a talented, experienced lineup with a nat title winning coach.

Got it.

No need to play any games, ever, for MN, as we have been a mediocre program and dpdoll says you cant have expectations of better seasons.
 

Outperforming expectation?

1990 team did not outperform any expectations.

They MET expectations.

Something you will not recognize. Or cant.

Reality - what a concept!!!!
 

dpodoll68 said:
Mbakwe is 24, and just turned 2 weeks ago.
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I was going to describe him as a 35 year old at first.

So again..if it is ridiculous to expect success at MN, why hire someone as expensive as Tubby? I could coach the team to not make the tourney for a lot less.
 

Wouldn't You like to Know said:
I know it's pricey, however if it's for the good of the program and you can get a "Big Name," than we have to pull the trigger. Below, are just a few reasons as to why I believe we can afford the switch:

A. Dude we're in the B1G 10, have you seen the t.v contract.
B. Mens Basketball and Football generate plenty of revenue.
C. A new exciting hire such as Smart or Flip will produce results and greater revenues.
D. We need to find a donor for the facility upgrades.
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A & B: That still hasn't helped us upgrade our facilities. We're still way behind most everyone else.
C: First of all, there is no certainty either one of those coaches would accept the job if offered. And then there is also no where near the certainty that they will produce. Tubby was a big name hire and that hasn't worked very well so far.
D: Obviously that's not very easy to do. If it was, a practice facility would have been built years ago.
 


tikited said:
So again..if it is ridiculous to expect success at MN, why hire someone as expensive as Tubby? I could coach the team to not make the tourney for a lot less.
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You hire a good coach in the hopes of making your expectations higher. Unfortunately, Tubby hasn't performed well enough to improve expectations. He should have, and not on the basis of salary (which is an irrelevant statistic for any fan to basis expectations on, as I've stated many times), but on the basis of his own history. Be mad at Tubby for not raising expectations, but don't be mad at him for failing to live up to unrealistic ones.
 

dpodoll68 said:
You hire a good coach in the hopes of making your expectations higher. Unfortunately, Tubby hasn't performed well enough to improve expectations. He should have, and not on the basis of salary (which is an irrelevant statistic for any fan to basis expectations on, as I've stated many times), but on the basis of his own history. Be mad at Tubby for not raising expectations, but don't be mad at him for failing to live up to unrealistic ones.
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We will have to disagree on the expectations of this veteran team this year I guess.

I will agree that Tubby hasn't performed well enough. I understand that we are stuck with him. "Stuck" being the key word.
 

Regardless of history, it's much more realistic for the Gophers to consistantly be a top 4 team in the B1G in basketball than football. Easier to build a winner with mostly in-state recruits, better relative fan support, etc. Gopher football (and the B1G generally) benefitted greatly from the era before 1960 and all that went with it. That's never coming back.
 

GophersInIowa said:
A & B: That still hasn't helped us upgrade our facilities. We're still way behind most everyone else.
C: First of all, there is no certainty either one of those coaches would accept the job if offered. And then there is also no where near the certainty that they will produce. Tubby was a big name hire and that hasn't worked very well so far.
D: Obviously that's not very easy to do. If it was, a practice facility would have been built years ago.
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You're missing the entire point of the post. Never said we were guaranteed to get either of those two but the point is still the same an exciting hire will produce greater revenues. And although results aren't guaranteed I think it's safe to say they will be better.
 



If you are going to accept history will never allow us to be good. Why even be a fan or post on here? Sounds to me like an excuse for Tubby's record. Anyone who can tell me that over the course of the last thirty-five years, which is about as long as I have been a fan, we have not been relevent in basketball during much of that time doesn't know what he is talking about. It's not close to the futility of our football program. It has been proven we can have good basketball here. In this day and age with the three pointer and players leaving early frankly about any school in the country from time to time can make some noise. To accept not only bad basketball but a mostly ugly ,unentertaining style of play is inexusable. Buy him out and move on. I am so sick of this history bs. Good coaches don't care about history. Poor ones and their supporters use it as an excuse.
 

Blackhammer said:
If you are going to accept history will never allow us to be good. Why even be a fan or post on here? Sounds to me like an excuse for Tubby's record. Anyone who can tell me that over the course of the last thirty-five years, which is about as long as I have been a fan, we have not been relevent in basketball during much of that time doesn't know what he is talking about. It's not close to the futility of our football program. It has been proven we can have good basketball here. In this day and age with the three pointer and players leaving early frankly about any school in the country from time to time can make some noise. To accept not only bad basketball but a mostly ugly ,unentertaining style of play is inexusable. Buy him out and move on. I am so sick of this history bs. Good coaches don't care about history. Poor ones and their supporters use it as an excuse.
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Ive been a fan for about 25 years. I would say that MN was relevant in the early 80's for a couple years, in 89-90 (2 years) and in 1996-1997. So five years or so out of the last 25. I guess a lot depends on what you consider to be relevant?
 

Tubby has found a way to leave before being fired in the past. I fully expect him to find that way once again. And when he does, I'll wish him all the best and then look forward to the next coach at Minnesota.
 

gopherbadgerman said:
Ive been a fan for about 25 years. I would say that MN was relevant in the early 80's for a couple years, in 89-90 (2 years) and in 1996-1997. So five years or so out of the last 25. I guess a lot depends on what you consider to be relevant?
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Out of the other twenty or so years I would guess at least in half of them we had competitive teams with a chance to win every game for the most part. . And I think we have had enough success to show we can win in basketball. In that time the landscape also has changed in the quality of high school players in our back yard. There is no reason we can't have very good basketball year in and year out at Williams arena. The place has had the life sucked out of it the last few years by this coaching staff. Why do players leave under Tubby at an alarming rate? Big game by Cobbs for Cal last night. Something is wrong.
 



Hopefully he retires or finds another team at the end of the season because if he doesn't, he should be fired, you are foolish if you think we should keep him.
 

Blackhammer said:
If you are going to accept history will never allow us to be good. Why even be a fan or post on here? Sounds to me like an excuse for Tubby's record. Anyone who can tell me that over the course of the last thirty-five years, which is about as long as I have been a fan, we have not been relevent in basketball during much of that time doesn't know what he is talking about. It's not close to the futility of our football program. It has been proven we can have good basketball here. In this day and age with the three pointer and players leaving early frankly about any school in the country from time to time can make some noise. To accept not only bad basketball but a mostly ugly ,unentertaining style of play is inexusable. Buy him out and move on. I am so sick of this history bs. Good coaches don't care about history. Poor ones and their supporters use it as an excuse.
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Since 2000, Bo Ryan himself has made more NCAA Tourneys appearances than the history the Gopher's basketball program. Bo has led a program that had 5 previous NCAA tourney appearances to a current run of 11 straight years. It's mind boggling that since 2000 the Badgers have surpassed the 100+ years of Gopher basketball in tourney appearances. This right here puts the Gopher's basketball program in perspective. The bottom line is that the Gophers have really never been that good with the exception of a good year here and there. Bo Ryan is an excellent coach and the quality of the head coach is one of the very few things that differentiate a Wisconsin from a Minnesota. Currently, Tubby is over matched and should catch heat for it. My god, the Gopher's don't even have an in bounds play!
 


savagerube said:
Since 2000, Bo Ryan himself has made more NCAA Tourneys appearances than the history the Gopher's basketball program. Bo has led a program that had 5 previous NCAA tourney appearances to a current run of 11 straight years. It's mind boggling that since 2000 the Badgers have surpassed the 100+ years of Gopher basketball in tourney appearances. This right here puts the Gopher's basketball program in perspective. The bottom line is that the Gophers have really never been that good with the exception of a good year here and there. Bo Ryan is an excellent coach and the quality of the head coach is one of the very few things that differentiate a Wisconsin from a Minnesota. Currently, Tubby is over matched and should catch heat for it. My god, the Gopher's don't even have an in bounds play!
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That's a rather misleading statement if you consider the history of the NCAA Basketball Tournment.
 

TheBarnyard said:
Hopefully he retires or finds another team at the end of the season because if he doesn't, he should be fired, you are foolish if you think we should keep him.
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What if we go 9-9 in conference play and 1-1 in the BT tourney, but make it to the Sweet 16?
 

There is absolutely no reason we can't compete for a top 5 B10 spot every year. You have to throw out a number of the last 12 years because of the probation, etc.

I don't think you can find many people that were against the Tubby hire, I know I wasn't. But when you sit in the stands and watch he gives the impression he doesn't give two craps about the team. He seems uninterested and fails to make many of the key adjustments. They don't always show this on tv.

The other thing I can't figure out is why this team shoots so poorly. For an old school coach he doesn't seem to be able to teach shooting. Or how to beat a zone.
 

GophersInIowa said:
What if we go 9-9 in conference play and 1-1 in the BT tourney, but make it to the Sweet 16?
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you cant discuss the end of the season on gopherhole! we only play 1 game season and you have to determine after every loss if a coach should be fired or let go without thinking about the financial hit or the future recruiting hit.
 

GophersInIowa said:
What if we go 9-9 in conference play and 1-1 in the BT tourney, but make it to the Sweet 16?
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Maybe if he has a coronary and one of his assistants take over this is plausible. If by a stroke of genius it happened than he has bought himself more time.
 

station19 said:
That's a rather misleading statement if you consider the history of the NCAA Basketball Tournment.
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Yeah, it was much tougher to make the tourney before 1985.

A better way to look at it may be conference wins. There have been 38 BT seasons (not counting this year) since teams started playing 18 conference games. Just six times in those 38 have a Gophers team won 11 or more conference games (two those six technically don't even count due to sanctions). Bo Ryan has done it nine times in 11 years.
 

panolo said:
Maybe if he has a coronary and one of his assistants take over this is plausible. If by a stroke of genius it happened than he has bought himself more time.
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I think it's possible. For whatever reason, we seem to play better against good competition outside of our conference.
 

BuckyGopher said:
Lol you sir are not very smart. UM has 3, possibly 4 nba players on the team. UW has maybe 1 (dekker) and he is not playing significant minutes (8 ppg), same with Illinois (Paul).
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I respectfully disagree. I would take Berggren over Trevor, Evans over Williams, Decker over Coleman, and maybe even Jackson over Dre (just because he can play point guard).
I don't think we are quite there yet talent wise. This is the most talent we have had since the late 90's, but we still have a ways to go. We really need a point guard.
 

TBH if we make it in I don't think we make it past the 1st round. Any team that has decent scouting will have us shut down and we will score in the upper 40's or low 50's.

I see so much talent on this team. Just zero semblance on how to run a half court set or beat a zone.
 

panolo said:
TBH if we make it in I don't think we make it past the 1st round. Any team that has decent scouting will have us shut down and we will score in the upper 40's or low 50's.

I see so much talent on this team. Just zero semblance on how to run a half court set or beat a zone.
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It's all about scouting lol you have no idea what you're talking about. Get off the computer and go upstairs, the sandwich your mom made is ready for you
 

nokomismod said:
I respectfully disagree. I would take Berggren over Trevor, Evans over Williams, Decker over Coleman, and maybe even Jackson over Dre (just because he can play point guard).
I don't think we are quite there yet talent wise. This is the most talent we have had since the late 90's, but we still have a ways to go. We really need a point guard.
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If we aren't there yet talent wise, that begs the question "why?"

I think Williams, Trevor and Dre are much better athletes and basketball players (as individuals) than Berggren, Evans or Jackson, but as a cohesive unit, they simply aren't. Is it lack of development? Bad fit? Poor recruiting?
 

Will this come into play?

From Tubby's contract extension:

"6. The parties agree that at the conclusion of the 201243 basketball season they
shall review and discuss the terms of this Amendment."
 

nokomismod said:
I respectfully disagree. I would take Berggren over Trevor, Evans over Williams, Decker over Coleman, and maybe even Jackson over Dre (just because he can play point guard).
I don't think we are quite there yet talent wise. This is the most talent we have had since the late 90's, but we still have a ways to go. We really need a point guard.
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I can see Evans and Decker. I'd take Mbakwe because his rebounding is much better. There's no way I'd take Jackson over Hollins though. He's not a good shooter and his AST/Turnover is worse than Andre's. The main reason people have noticed Jackson's game lately is because he's had several front iron shots that have fallen late in close games.
 

Bob_Loblaw said:
If we aren't there yet talent wise, that begs the question "why?"

I think Williams, Trevor and Dre are much better athletes and basketball players (as individuals) than Berggren, Evans or Jackson, but as a cohesive unit, they simply aren't. Is it lack of development? Bad fit? Poor recruiting?
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Good point. Tubby is responsible for the entire program. Wouldn't you agree that the talent has been upgraded since the Monson years? I am guessing that most people here would think so, but we are all hungry for that next step.
 

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