Possible TCF Beer Garden that has U support?

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GoAUpher said:
Pointing out the other prohibited items makes sense if people are trying to claim that beer is "special" (it's not).
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But that's EXACTLY what they're doing, my friend. Whether they admit it or not. How many threads have been started based on some variation of "beer must be served at TCF!!!" since the stadium was built? Dozens? Hundreds? And how many threads have been started to advocate for the allowance of fireworks or medicinal marijuana? I don't recall any. If having a beer in your hand is sufficiently important to you that you cannot watch amateur football players move a ball around a field for four hours without it, and you actually go out of your way to advocate that opinion, it is obviously of great importance to you. And if it is of sufficient importance to you that you will actually lobby and advocate for it, you have a problem. That doesn't necessarily mean that you are an alcoholic. But, at the very least, your priorities are seriously messed up. I could literally write a book on all the reasons why I'm a Gopher fan, why I'm a season ticket holder, why I support the Gophers, why I love the Gophers, why I go to as many games as I can, why others should go to the games too (and bring a friend!), why a U alumnus/a should hold the football team near and dear to their heart automatically, etc. In this book, I would not write the word "alcohol" nor the word "beer" once. If you (not you, specifically) would write the same book and would include those words, it is my opinion that there is something wrong with you and/or your priorities in life.
 

Unregistered User said:
Because that is not the discussion those who don't agree with you are stating.

Look...I'm not here to try to change you mind. Would I like a beer during the game? Maybe. I probably would not because I really have a hard time justifying paying $8 for $0.50 worth of product. I may or may not have a beer or cocktail before the game, depending on whether or not I'm driving, and whether or not my kids are with me.

I think the people who disagree with you can understand your hard line in the sand belief that you oppose the idea. But they can justify, within themselves, that a person should have the right to responsibly enjoy an adult beverage if that option is made available to them.

Like I said, even if I wanted to change your mind, I don't think I could, simply because that is your belief, and you have every right to that. So I don't think you should believe that you can change everyone else's opinion. You may sway a few people who couldn't really care, but you won't sway everyone that does not agree with you.
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THIS ^^^^^^^^

I know there have been plenty of stupid arguments raised over time. Off the top of my head I can recall:
1) Constitutional right to beer
2) Equal protection violation by not serving beer
3) Beer is legal therefore must be served
4) Not serving beer is a form of socialism
5) Not serving beer is elitist

The incessant "You have a problem" argument is now on this list. Congrats dpodoll, you've joined oneoldgopher on a list of inanity. :)
 

dpodoll68 said:
But that's EXACTLY what they're doing, my friend. Whether they admit it or not.
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No it isn't. Most folks are arguing that they think the U should serve beer in GA because they think the arguments against it aren't convincing or they're saying the U should take this compromise. You can do either of those and not contradict yourself by being ok with other banned items. I'll agree, some people have and continue to make the stupid argument that "beer is legal and therefore MUST be offered everywhere". Most folks aren't doing that here in this thread though. And you're lumping in folks who aren't making the argument with those who are at this point.
 

Well, the example of UMD hockey doesn't really work here, because Amsoil is off-campus. The same is "technically" true for Ralph Englestead in Grand Forks, where they also sell beer.

That said, I like beer. A lot. I drink. A lot. But I don't mind not being able to drink at TCF Bank. It makes for better concession lines and bathroom lines for one thing.

However, I can give you one good reason why the U SHOULD be at least considering the sale of beer at the stadium.

Competition.

Whether you like it or not, and want to romanticize the notion of "amateur college athletics," D1 football is big business. Big ENTERTAINMENT business. Unlike Nebraska, Michigan, Wisconsin, OSU, etc., the Gophers have to compete with all that a major metro area has for the finite sports-entertainment dollars available. By not being able to, or choosing not to, serve booze at least in premium seating, they're putting themselves at a disadvantage compared to the many other sports options in a five mile radius, most of which DO serve beer. In addition, compared to the aforementioned B1G programs, the U has not for decades, put a decent product on the field, so they're starting from a quality deficit as well, so the product isn't as easy to sell even if they didn't have the competition in the market.

Now I'm sure dpo and others might say "well, that's just selling out to the almighty dollar" or some such thing. Well, yes, it is. But to deny that college sports isn't a major entertainment business is simply naive. If serving beer in a limited capacity at TCF bank helps the program, then they should shut up and do it.
 

discochris said:
Well, the example of UMD hockey doesn't really work here, because Amsoil is off-campus. The same is "technically" true for Ralph Englestead in Grand Forks, where they also sell beer.

That said, I like beer. A lot. I drink. A lot. But I don't mind not being able to drink at TCF Bank. It makes for better concession lines and bathroom lines for one thing.

However, I can give you one good reason why the U SHOULD be at least considering the sale of beer at the stadium.

Competition.

Whether you like it or not, and want to romanticize the notion of "amateur college athletics," D1 football is big business. Big ENTERTAINMENT business. Unlike Nebraska, Michigan, Wisconsin, OSU, etc., the Gophers have to compete with all that a major metro area has for the finite sports-entertainment dollars available. By not being able to, or choosing not to, serve booze at least in premium seating, they're putting themselves at a disadvantage compared to the many other sports options in a five mile radius, most of which DO serve beer. In addition, compared to the aforementioned B1G programs, the U has not for decades, put a decent product on the field, so they're starting from a quality deficit as well, so the product isn't as easy to sell even if they didn't have the competition in the market.

Now I'm sure dpo and others might say "well, that's just selling out to the almighty dollar" or some such thing. Well, yes, it is. But to deny that college sports isn't a major entertainment business is simply naive. If serving beer in a limited capacity at TCF bank helps the program, then they should shut up and do it.
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Correct and that's the main reason the U wanted to offer alcoholic beverages for the Suites in the first place. The same thing they were doing for years at Williams and Mariucci. If the minor league politicians on BOTH sides of the aisle in St.Paul could have ignored the itch to show how much they were worried about the "little guys" the U would have had a few million more dollars to work with. We also wouldn't have had any of these threads.

Let them sell it as a Premium "Incentive" period. The lack of trouble in the stands and hallways during, yeah I was serious, Iowa and Wisconsin games has been pretty damn refreshing and not just because their boasts of "we'll still have 25,000 there" have been wonderfully over stated.
 


dpodoll68 said:
What is the "Wrong!" about? Nothing you said has anything to do with anything I've said, nor anything to do with the topic at hand. Try harder.
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What is "wrong" about your original statement is the fact that you insinuate that we'd be the first to sell beer to the general student population at a University even or on University property. That is where you are wrong, get it!
 

discochris said:
Now I'm sure dpo and others might say "well, that's just selling out to the almighty dollar" or some such thing. Well, yes, it is. But to deny that college sports isn't a major entertainment business is simply naive.
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First of all, great post overall. Thank you. And this is yet another facet of the issue that has barely been touched upon in this god-forsaken thread. I alluded to it earlier, but I'm just not comfortable going this far in the name of revenue. I can live with the ridiculous in-game advertisements. I can live with insane parking lot prices that inherently exclude the average fan. I can live with basketball re-seating solely in the name of squeezing more money out of fans who are already paying for the product. But I cannot abide, under any circumstances, the notion of a university selling beer to its own students, in general admission, to watch other students putting on a performance. And of course it is big business. But they could be doing a lot of things they aren't doing right now (and probably would do any number of them if they knew they wouldn't get a huge backlash) strictly in the name of profits.

And to your point, here:

discochris said:
If serving beer in a limited capacity at TCF bank helps the program, then they should shut up and do it.
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I couldn't agree with you more. It should be available in the premium seating areas. It provides a significant barrier to entry, it rewards those who are willing to pay more for a better product, and it reasonably eliminates the possibility of many (if any) University students being served beer by their own university at an amateur sporting event. And, finally, it provides the option of drinking beer at an amateur sporting event for those of legal age who simply cannot live without it. If you want it, pony up. You're helping yourself and you're helping the University with an increased financial investment in the program. I agree that the University must exhaust all reasonable sources of revenue. And alcohol in the premium seats is a reasonable compromise. A low-rent, redneck beer garden is not a reasonable compromise.
 

go4rob said:
What is "wrong" about your original statement is the fact that you insinuate that we'd be the first to sell beer to the general student population at a University even or on University property. That is where you are wrong, get it!
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Wrong on the first one. Wisconsin doesn't sell beer at university events. They don't sell it at football games. They don't sell it at basketball games. They don't sell it at orchestra recitals. They sell it at their student union. That is an enormous difference.

Wrong on the second one. I never said that. Feel free to cite it. I know that multiple Big Ten universities do in fact sell beer to their own students on their own property. I made a post about the Campus Club in this very thread, for crying out loud.
 

GoAUpher said:
THIS ^^^^^^^^

I know there have been plenty of stupid arguments raised over time. Off the top of my head I can recall:
1) Constitutional right to beer
2) Equal protection violation by not serving beer
3) Beer is legal therefore must be served
4) Not serving beer is a form of socialism
5) Not serving beer is elitist

The incessant "You have a problem" argument is now on this list. Congrats dpodoll, you've joined oneoldgopher on a list of inanity. :)
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LOL - You have captured the insanity of this discussion almost as well as the wife who said "you spent the whole day arguing about beer on the GopherHole? - Grow up!"
 



From the Sports Business Journal....surprised about the numbers of schools that do sell beer to the general public.

http://www.sportsbusinessdaily.com/Journal/Issues/2011/09/19/Colleges/Beer.aspx

All told, 21 out of 120 Football Bowl Subdivision schools sell beer to the public at their stadiums, according to research by SportsBusiness Journal. Eleven of those schools play at university-owned stadiums.

In Morgantown, West Virginia officials believe they have done all the right things to ensure their new system works. The school invested a six-figure sum to ramp up the program, an expense covering increased staffing, more rest rooms and surveillance camera technology, Luck said. In late August, TEAM Coalition, an alliance of teams, leagues, service providers and other groups, trained more than 700 concession and security workers for football games on how to serve alcohol responsibly.

Because Milan Puskar Stadium’s beer license belongs to Sodexo, the concessionaire assumes the liability risk, similar to concessionaire deals in the pros, Luck said.

Beer is sold exclusively in the concourses with a two-beer limit for each purchase. In addition to aggressive pricing ($7, $8 and $9, depending on the brand), Sodexo checks the identification of everyone who buys beer and stops sales in the middle of the third quarter. The beer companies whose products are served at West Virginia sponsor a designated driver program.
 

Morgantown is a special breed. They let people leave the stadium at halftime and get blasted at their cars before coming back in for the second half.
 

Gopher07 said:
Morgantown is a special breed. They let people leave the stadium at halftime and get blasted at their cars before coming back in for the second half.
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Let us not forgot their insatiable desire to eliminate all forms of couches and love seats from the face of the earth via fire.
 

dpodoll68 said:
But I cannot abide, under any circumstances, the notion of a university selling beer to its own students, in general admission, to watch other students putting on a performance.

A low-rent, redneck beer garden is not a reasonable compromise.
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I think most people are able to draw a distinction between attending a sporting event, and other forms of "student performances." If I'm attending a symphony concert, or a dance recital, I'm not going to show up in jeans and a t-shirt. I would not expect to drink alcohol during the event, or crack open peanuts and toss the shells under my seat. On the other hand, those are considered perfectly acceptable forms of behavior at a sporting event.

Next - you are assuming that a beer garden would be a "low-rent, redneck" operation. I must have more faith in the U of M than you do, because I think they could find a way to have a beer garden that is run in an orderly and safe fashion.

But, in the end, my main reason for supporting this is not fairness, its economic. Let's remember - when TCF bank stadium opened, the stated plan of the U was to offer alcohol in the suites and private boxes. Season ticket packages were sold based on that assumption. When the geniuses at the legislature intervened, and alcohol sales were prevented, the U lost income from cancelled ticket sales, and the U also offered those seats at a lower cost due to the perceived loss in value. The U is not in a situation where it can afford to turn its back on potential sources of revenue. If making alcohol available increases ticket sales, and generates more revenue, then I think that's a fair trade-off.
 



short ornery norwegian said:
But, in the end, my main reason for supporting this is not fairness, its economic. Let's remember - when TCF bank stadium opened, the stated plan of the U was to offer alcohol in the suites and private boxes. Season ticket packages were sold based on that assumption. When the geniuses at the legislature intervened, and alcohol sales were prevented, the U lost income from cancelled ticket sales, and the U also offered those seats at a lower cost due to the perceived loss in value. The U is not in a situation where it can afford to turn its back on potential sources of revenue. If making alcohol available increases ticket sales, and generates more revenue, then I think that's a fair trade-off.
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I agree 100%. Let's do it!
 

My #1 goal for the U in all of this is to maximize revenue and keep the suites full. I agree with those who state that the U will have an easier time competing with the Vikings it they can sell beer.

While I wouldn't go so far as to brand a beer garden or the people who might use it as 'tacky', I would not be in support of one if it were not paired with, or a precondition of suite beer/liquor sales.

I'm 42 and honestly I don't think I'd spend much time if any in a beer garden. But it would be nice to know the option is there for those games I attend with non football junkies (my wife and her friends). When I'm hosting someone I want them to have a good time and if that means spending the third quarter in a beer garden so I don't have to leave early, I'll take it.

I think the reaction here has been a little overboard. Should a beer garden be added, we'd all agree that it needs to be done in a way to minimize the inconvenience to non patrons, strictly limit student access, etc
 





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GoAUpher said:
THIS ^^^^^^^^

I know there have been plenty of stupid arguments raised over time. Off the top of my head I can recall:
1) Constitutional right to beer
2) Equal protection violation by not serving beer
3) Beer is legal therefore must be served
4) Not serving beer is a form of socialism
5) Not serving beer is elitist

The incessant "You have a problem" argument is now on this list. Congrats dpodoll, you've joined oneoldgopher on a list of inanity. :)
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You forgot two others:

- this is a public facility paid for with public tax dollars argument ;

- TPaw's "we just don't do this in Minnesota" argument.
 

The important thing which is going to happen is that the beer garden at the Gopher's Stadium IS going to get done, and dopydoll and his wife are never going to totally enjoy Gopher football games ever again. I take a huge amount of satisfaction in knowing this.
 

Go4Broke said:
You forgot two others:

- this is a public facility paid for with public tax dollars argument ;

- TPaw's "we just don't do this in Minnesota" argument.
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2 more excellent additions. Hopefully this gets resolved soon so that these arguments can be relegated to the trash heap.
 


Basically the only reason the republican led legislator wouldn't pass this is to stick it to the public institution.
 

GopherHomer said:
Basically the only reason the republican led legislator wouldn't pass this is to stick it to the public institution.
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DFL is just a guilty here. The nonsense has been bipartisan from the get go.
 

GopherHomer said:
Basically the only reason the republican led legislator wouldn't pass this is to stick it to the public institution.
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It's unreasonable to blame this on one party. Yes there are some Republican's that won't support any bill simply because they want to stick it to a public school like the U of M, but there's just as many nanny-state DFLers that won't back it for who knows why. Fortunately it looks like there could be enough people on both sides with enough commonsense on this issue to get something passed.

As a student, I'm definitely in support of this simply because it will likely draw in more students to games. Yea it would be nice to fill up the stadium with student's simply because people want to watch Gopher football, but anyone who's looked at the upper deck of the student section has noticed how well that's working out. If a beer garden is what it takes to draw in more casual fans, more students, and maximize the U's profits, then I'm for it.

Personally I think it should go up on top of the second deck on the visitor's side. Maybe with a partial view of the field, but not enough so that people just dwell up there. If the U does this right and markets it right, a rooftop beer garden could be a cool thing.
 

Wow. Such passion!
Let me give you all my personal experience with a "beer garden" at a CFB game. In 2009 I ventured back to Oregon for the Civil War Game against the hated Ducks in Eugene.
They have a "beer garden" and as much as I hated to admit it, it was brilliant in conception and in execution. Their indoor practice facility is next door to Autzen stadium, just down the hill.
When you enter the athletic premises with your ticket you can go to the beer garden. They cover the floor and the middle is set up with tables. All around the periphery are multitudes of different
food vendors. They have games, face painting going on for the kids. A stage set up and a band playing. Pep band comes in and the team parades through. Cheerleaders and the smoking hot dance line performs. They must select on looks only! And yes, god forbid, you can go through a controlled area and buy a beer with an ID. Oregon microbrews..........yum. Basically it is indoor tailgating and takes the OR weather , ie rain out of the equation. Despite the fears of some in this thread it is not a scene out of Sodom and Gomorrah. It is not a beer swilliing, beer bong fest. It is very controlled. family environment. In short, it was really awesome. They make money for their program and their fans have a great time. Pissed me off that Oregon State did not have the idea first.
They are now trying to copy this idea.

Bottom line, this can be done in a manner that should alleviate all concerns, except for a few zealots. I would be against selling it at the concession stands. The bozos that run those can't even get enough coffee when it is cold. Can we really trust them with our beer?
 

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