News on Flip Saunders

[Madman]

It's not going to be Flip.

Norwood is not going to turn to an NBA coach when he has made his bones in this business by getting the "Next Shaka"...young coach.


It's not happening. I do not know who it's going to be, although I predicted in the Smart thread that it would be Anthony Grant. But I have really no idea...other than to know it's not going to be Flip.


And I love Flip, so this hurts.

With all of this BS back and forth, I just found a nugget that I completely concur with..... GopherForever, I think your spot on. Flip is perhaps not even the 6th or 7th choice for these guys who developed this petri dish of growing prospects in the villa 7. These guys see themselves as the scientists... with these beakers and viles at the ready... about to make a chemical reaction.

I also like the idea of Flip being the next coach....but I don't see it happening due to the guys at the helm.

 

[westcoastgopher11]

This my only contention, the numbers do not speak for themselves.

There is a difference between taking over for Larry Brown in Detroit and most NBA coaching jobs.

Ok so what numbers are you talking about?

His winning percentage from the Timberwolves that more than doubled what the franchise had done to that point?

His superior win % with the Pistons than Brown?

 

[Slim Tubby]

I disagree with him on a few things here but Bob's a good sport and loyal Gopher fan so he's always good in my book. I want Flip over Grant because he has name recognition locally and gives us the best chance at the Big 3. I'm not sure what that would mean to a recruit in TX or NY, though. I do know this, if Flip is the guy, he better have one hell of a staff with a spectacular recruiter. JB Bickerstaff would be stellar IMO.

 

[diehard]

I disagree with him on a few things here but Bob's a good sport and loyal Gopher fan so he's always good in my book. I want Flip over Grant because he has name recognition locally and gives us the best chance at the Big 3. I'm not sure what that would mean to a recruit in TX or NY, though. I do know this, if Flip is the guy, he better have one hell of a staff with a spectacular recruiter. JB Bickerstaff would be stellar IMO.

The coach to continue on the new Gopher basketball dynasty that Flip puts in place. Bob is normally very good and I hate seeing him all butt hurt over Flip.

 

[Slim Tubby]

The coach to continue on the new Gopher basketball dynasty that Flip puts in place. Bob is normally very good and I hate seeing him all but hurt over Flip.

Exactly, diehard...unfortunately I think others on here are right and Teague goes for an "up and comer" which in my view is NOT the right move with our current situation. We'll see...

 

[diehard]

Grant is not an up and comer. Great recruiter but hasn't done more with them than Tubby did with his mediocre recruits.

 

[Ogee Ogilthorpe]

Bob, you are one of my favourites but in regards to Flip you are coming across very similar to Ogee Oglethorpe and Gray.

I knew I liked that Bob! Great minds think alike!

Hard to say if the above is a compliment, a jab, or just an observation but you know what they say, no such thing as bad publicity!

 

[60's Guy]

Bob, you are right about one thing. I don't have much to go into court with.

I guess most of my arguments for Flip I can't articulate or provide better evidence of. My opinion is formed from having season tickets when Flip played. Does a good player make a good coach? No, Usually the opposite is true.
Why? Because a good player is often athletically more gifted than their opponents and things come natural for them. They have no idea how to teach the game. Flip had no gifts except heart and leadership. Tirelessly worked to develop handles and a sweet shot. You don't forget his work ethic. It's who he is.

I had season tickets to the TWolves from day one. I loved Musselman. I know where the TWolves spiraled after that to when Flip got them to their highest point. I know what I saw and I know what assistant coaches told me and I know what KG told me. And going back I know what Dutcher and Musselman told me about Flip.

It's my instinct, my belief, his passion along with his ability would make him successful.
I'm not confident he'll be offered the job.

Another interesting point was that Barriero said today he believes Flip is the next TWolves GM but they thought given the two choices he'd probably rather coach the Gophers. Maybe unless he got the GM job and then Adelman retired to care for his wife and then Flip would be GM coach of the TWolves.

My other comment is this: There is more than just being a good recruiter in coaching college basketball. Grant has a great track record of recruiting. 1 NCAA appearance and 1 loss is not too inspiring. He might be a good coach someday but Grant has not proven that. Flip has proven to be successful, in several peoples opinions, but you dismiss the levels or the circumstances that are in the record books. Grant has not proven himself as a winner at any level I am aware of as a head coach.
A winning record not high enough to qualify or win a game in the NCAA tournament is not evidence to me.

 

[Bad Gopher]

I keep thinking where this program would be right now if we had hired Tim Miles 6 years ago or had been able to hire Flip then. It would be in a different place, I guarantee you. The more time goes by and things happen the way we do, the more I suspect that we're in a level of Purgatory where we keep making the same mistakes over and over again and never have the ability to get out of the rut.

 

[Bob_Loblaw]

Bob, you are right about one thing. I don't have much to go into court with.

I guess most of my arguments for Flip I can't articulate or provide better evidence of. My opinion is formed from having season tickets when Flip played. Does a good player make a good coach? No, Usually the opposite is true.
Why? Because a good player is often athletically more gifted than their opponents and things come natural for them. They have no idea how to teach the game. Flip had no gifts except heart and leadership. Tirelessly worked to develop handles and a sweet shot. You don't forget his work ethic. It's who he is.

I had season tickets to the TWolves from day one. I loved Musselman. I know where the TWolves spiraled after that to when Flip got them to their highest point. I know what I saw and I know what assistant coaches told me and I know what KG told me. And going back I know what Dutcher and Musselman told me about Flip.

It's my instinct, my belief, his passion along with his ability would make him successful.
I'm not confident he'll be offered the job.

Another interesting point was that Barriero said today he believes Flip is the next TWolves GM but they thought given the two choices he'd probably rather coach the Gophers. Maybe unless he got the GM job and then Adelman retired to care for his wife and then Flip would be GM coach of the TWolves.

My other comment is this: There is more than just being a good recruiter in coaching college basketball. Grant has a great track record of recruiting. 1 NCAA appearance and 1 loss is not too inspiring. He might be a good coach someday but Grant has not proven that. Flip has proven to be successful, in several peoples opinions, but you dismiss the levels or the circumstances that are in the record books. Grant has not proven himself as a winner at any level I am aware of as a head coach.
A winning record not high enough to qualify or win a game in the NCAA tournament is not evidence to me.

I didn't mean to discredit your opinion. I just think we all look for different things. For me, it doesn't matter how he played at the U, his time at Golden Valley means little to me, and I am not sure he'd be a great recruiter.

Other than that it's just my lay opinion that's worth as much as yours.

I do have 1 issue with your opinion though. You don't count Grant as being successful because he hasn't gotten Alabama over the hump in three seasons, yet Flip, a guy who has struggled in the post season himself is still successful?

 

[Bob_Loblaw]

Ok so what numbers are you talking about?

His winning percentage from the Timberwolves that more than doubled what the franchise had done to that point?

His superior win % with the Pistons than Brown?

I'm saying that the numbers aren't always conclusive. You proved my point with your last sentence. He had a higher winning percentage at Detroit, did you think he did a better job than Brown? If not, why? If you did, then we will always disagree about this subject.

 

[Hates Monikers]

Flip has been run out of the NBA.

Yes, run out of the NBA indeed. It only took 16 years.

Unfair in my opinion, though. NBA coaches all deserve at least 17 years to get their own guys in there.

 

[60's Guy]

Bob, I'm arguing for two reasons I think...one, my opinion is different than yours about Flip and two, I almost always agree, enjoy and respect your insights on the football side. I respect your opinion on Flip, I'm just surprised by it.

 

[Winnipegopher]

I knew I liked that Bob! Great minds think alike!

Hard to say if the above is a compliment, a jab, or just an observation but you know what they say, no such thing as bad publicity!

I wondered if you would see that. Not meant as a jab, just pointing out the similarities - two pretty reasonable guys who fixate on an issue and seem unable to leave it alone. Hmm, now that does seem like a jab but it wasn't meant to be.

I am off to bed now before I dig myself any deeper.

 

[#1nHkyCfbBsbDncSolarDebat]

Well, I for one think BOB is like OBSESSED with bashing Flip. I mean, its like he goes out of his way to make anything and everything look negative, whether it should be or not. He has his mind made up and seems bound and determined to skew others opinions of Flip no matter what he has to do or write to do so.


Are his intentions evil? NO!!! He thinks he's doing whats best for the program. So I can forgive him, I guess?!




But honestly, Flip Saunders is what you could call A WINNER. He was a great PG in college, he was successful at coaching college basketball. Who cares if it was only Div 3 or whatever, honestly. Do you know how many successful coaches FIRST started out being successful HIGH SCHOOL coaches, or something similar?!

Doug Woog, Brad Frost, Jerry Kill, Bernie Bierman. Just off the top of my head.


Then he went on to the CBA. Where, he has been arguably THE MOST SUCCESSFUL CBA Coach in the history of the CBA.


He won COY and a CBA title for the one team, and then did the same for another team. And on 3 separate occasions.



Now I'm not mentioning these things because I think doing well at a Div 3 college ALL ALONE means much at all, but COMBINED...


COMBINED with how he then did in the CBA, and THEN, again, COMBINED with...


how he did in the NBA. Shows me that the guy can flat out coach. At any and all levels basically. Young not so talented Bible loving college students, semi talented but not NBA level CBA guys who are either stuck at that level, or who just need one or two more years to develop, and more talented NBA caliber talent.


Now I watched and followed the Timberwolves from the beginning. And Flip was successful with the T-Pups.

One reason he wasn't given as much credit as he deserves with the T-Pups is that they were stuck in the Western Conf when they should have been in the Eastern Conf.

I did all the math and comparisons and projections and everything, and had the T-Pups played in the Eastern Conf all those years Flip was coaching them, they would have been Top seeds in the playoffs almost every year, and then would have played teams that they had winning records against in the playoffs. Instead, they were stuck in the Western Conf, had to play ALL OF THE TOP NBA teams, and always got stuck playing one of the top seeded teams in the playoffs.


T-Pups would have the 10th best record in the NBA, yet be the 8th seed in the Western Conf. The East was weak as hell back in those days. T-Pups would have DOMINATED the Eastern Conference for almost the entire time Flip was coaching them.


Then he went to Detroit and did damn good with them. But simply not winning an NBA title got him fired?! From a job that seemed addicted to firing coaches.



Now, Flip loves the U and he might take the job for less and he probably wouldn't be looking for a better gig, and all by themselves, these positives ARE NOT enough to hire Flip, but COMBINED with all the other positives, these things add up. Flip would get the donations in to get the practice facility built, which all by itself ALMOST IS enough of a reason to hire him, but combined with all the rest, seems like the absolute answer to me. Flip would get the otherwise negative press thinking positively, again, all by itself only a minor thing, but combined with everything else. Flip could possibly get all three of the Big 3 to sign on. Now if that was THE ONLY good thing he did, some might think that alone would be enough reason to hire him, BUT, AGAIN, combined with everything else, it just seems like a homerun of a hire. Now even IF he wasn't the best recruiter, something about bringing in a top class, having an NBA pedigree, and getting a new practice facility built and being a good bull*&^!#*&^!#*&^!#*&^!#ter that would make it easier for him to recruit. But I personally believe that Flip would be a great recruiter. I have no evidence of that. And I'm sure he'd be required to hire a top notch recruiter anyway. And so that NT got his way, sort of, the recruiter could be one of his guys even.



But I can see it already. NT is going to bring in some guy like Grant, and we're going to have to wait to see if he produces any results before the Big Money donors are willing to commit tons of their money to new facilities.

They didn't give when we got Tubby? Why would this Grant guy fire them up?! Serious?



I'm sorry, but what I am hoping is that NT fails to get his next guy too, and that while he was doing all that calling around, he got told by ALL OF THE BIG MONEY DONORS that they'd donate if Flip got hired, but not if he hired some no name Villa 7 guy. If he hired one of those guys, they'd wait and see how he did first. I'm hoping that Teague, out of frustration gives up and hires Flip despite what he wants to do. Maybe one of those up and comers will be willing to be one of Flips assistants?!

But its pure agony waiting to see if Jerry Kill pans out of not. It took us 2-3 years to figure out Brewster was a loser.


Thing is, there is nothing to lose if NT hires Flip. Not for him. He can say that the Big Money Donors forced his hand and if Flip fails, then go get your guy. But just bringing in Flip might get the new Practice Facility built so that we CAN get whoever we want when that time comes?! If Flip succeeds, he can claim that he hired Flip DESPITE all of the Villa 7 reasons he had not to, and can claim to be a genius.

 

[principalguy]

Flip is not an afterthought

I keep thinking where this program would be right now if we had hired Tim Miles 6 years ago or had been able to hire Flip then. It would be in a different place, I guarantee you.

There is nothing that could be closer to the truth. Monson appeared to be that guy. Tubby appeared to be that guy. To give credit to the Decision-Makers, it's a crapshoot. I'd choose Flip. Nothing makes more sense than a UM guy that has a national voice.

 

[#1nHkyCfbBsbDncSolarDebat]

And just in case it matters, and for MANY Minnesotans it will.


If I was a millionaire, I'd donate instantly if they hired Flip. Heck, I'm comparatively poor, and if NT hires Flip, I'll donate what I can.


But I'm not donating a dime if they hire some outside Villa 7 guy that I've never heard of. Not until I see that he can deliver. I'm betting a lot of big money supporters of the Gophers and alumni feel the same way.

 

[GophersOnTheRise]

Well, I for one think BOB is like OBSESSED with bashing Flip. I mean, its like he goes out of his way to make anything and everything look negative, whether it should be or not. He has his mind made up and seems bound and determined to skew others opinions of Flip no matter what he has to do or write to do so.


Are his intentions evil? NO!!! He thinks he's doing whats best for the program. So I can forgive him, I guess?!




But honestly, Flip Saunders is what you could call A WINNER. He was a great PG in college, he was successful at coaching college basketball. Who cares if it was only Div 3 or whatever, honestly. Do you know how many successful coaches FIRST started out being successful HIGH SCHOOL coaches, or something similar?!

Doug Woog, Brad Frost, Jerry Kill, Bernie Bierman. Just off the top of my head.


Then he went on to the CBA. Where, he has been arguably THE MOST SUCCESSFUL CBA Coach in the history of the CBA.


He won COY and a CBA title for the one team, and then did the same for another team. And on 3 separate occasions.



Now I'm not mentioning these things because I think doing well at a Div 3 college ALL ALONE means much at all, but COMBINED...


COMBINED with how he then did in the CBA, and THEN, again, COMBINED with...


how he did in the NBA. Shows me that the guy can flat out coach. At any and all levels basically. Young not so talented Bible loving college students, semi talented but not NBA level CBA guys who are either stuck at that level, or who just need one or two more years to develop, and more talented NBA caliber talent.


Now I watched and followed the Timberwolves from the beginning. And Flip was successful with the T-Pups.

One reason he wasn't given as much credit as he deserves with the T-Pups is that they were stuck in the Western Conf when they should have been in the Eastern Conf.

I did all the math and comparisons and projections and everything, and had the T-Pups played in the Eastern Conf all those years Flip was coaching them, they would have been Top seeds in the playoffs almost every year, and then would have played teams that they had winning records against in the playoffs. Instead, they were stuck in the Western Conf, had to play ALL OF THE TOP NBA teams, and always got stuck playing one of the top seeded teams in the playoffs.


T-Pups would have the 10th best record in the NBA, yet be the 8th seed in the Western Conf. The East was weak as hell back in those days. T-Pups would have DOMINATED the Eastern Conference for almost the entire time Flip was coaching them.


Then he went to Detroit and did damn good with them. But simply not winning an NBA title got him fired?! From a job that seemed addicted to firing coaches.



Now, Flip loves the U and he might take the job for less and he probably wouldn't be looking for a better gig, and all by themselves, these positives ARE NOT enough to hire Flip, but COMBINED with all the other positives, these things add up. Flip would get the donations in to get the practice facility built, which all by itself ALMOST IS enough of a reason to hire him, but combined with all the rest, seems like the absolute answer to me. Flip would get the otherwise negative press thinking positively, again, all by itself only a minor thing, but combined with everything else. Flip could possibly get all three of the Big 3 to sign on. Now if that was THE ONLY good thing he did, some might think that alone would be enough reason to hire him, BUT, AGAIN, combined with everything else, it just seems like a homerun of a hire. Now even IF he wasn't the best recruiter, something about bringing in a top class, having an NBA pedigree, and getting a new practice facility built and being a good bull*&^!#*&^!#*&^!#*&^!#ter that would make it easier for him to recruit. But I personally believe that Flip would be a great recruiter. I have no evidence of that. And I'm sure he'd be required to hire a top notch recruiter anyway. And so that NT got his way, sort of, the recruiter could be one of his guys even.



But I can see it already. NT is going to bring in some guy like Grant, and we're going to have to wait to see if he produces any results before the Big Money donors are willing to commit tons of their money to new facilities.

They didn't give when we got Tubby? Why would this Grant guy fire them up?! Serious?



I'm sorry, but what I am hoping is that NT fails to get his next guy too, and that while he was doing all that calling around, he got told by ALL OF THE BIG MONEY DONORS that they'd donate if Flip got hired, but not if he hired some no name Villa 7 guy. If he hired one of those guys, they'd wait and see how he did first. I'm hoping that Teague, out of frustration gives up and hires Flip despite what he wants to do. Maybe one of those up and comers will be willing to be one of Flips assistants?!

But its pure agony waiting to see if Jerry Kill pans out of not. It took us 2-3 years to figure out Brewster was a loser.


Thing is, there is nothing to lose if NT hires Flip. Not for him. He can say that the Big Money Donors forced his hand and if Flip fails, then go get your guy. But just bringing in Flip might get the new Practice Facility built so that we CAN get whoever we want when that time comes?! If Flip succeeds, he can claim that he hired Flip DESPITE all of the Villa 7 reasons he had not to, and can claim to be a genius.

Please learn the meaning of this word: http://www.thefreedictionary.com/succinct

 

[sec105]

I really want it to be Flip!

My real fear is that NT has such an ego he is going to show everyone how much he knows by hiring the next great up and comer who ever that might be. We will just have to "trust him". Unfortunately that will give us about zero chance of getting any of the big three.

I just hope Teague doesn't blow this up like dear old Joel did time after time after time.

I really don't want to have to settle like Illinois did last year.

And what's with ALL the venom coming from Bob Loblaw? He has about 100 plus post on this thread spewing hate. He's made the same point about 50 times.

 

[calminnfan]

You can't compare coaching up NBA players to his ability to coach college kids. The CBA would be a better comparison and even that is a bit of a stretch. But the guy is a great basketball mind either way I think at this point unless we could land Stevens which seems very unlikely Flip would be our best option. He'd give the best opportunity to land the big three plus local ties. And maybe most importantly wants to be here.

Sorry to have bowed out of the debate earlier, had things going on tonight.

That is part of my belief as well. Along with that I think he is a far better coach then some give him credit for and am truthfully a little puzzled that is in question.

1. In all likelihood, Teague is going elsewhere. My contention in that regard is simply the belief the Flip is a legitimate fall back option and even a better option then some who seem to be being considered.
2. I do not know how he will do as a recruiter. My point is that with his NBA experience and that he actually does have experience recruiting in the past, he would be able to use that in order to get kids who have NBA aspirations.
3. Obviously there is disagreement on his developing players. Everyone has stated their timelines and perception of how he did.
4. Actually a major thrust of my belief he will do well is not just his Golden Valley experience, but his CBA success which early on translated into the NBA. And I do agree with the comment that other then KG, he was continually trying to put together a winning team based on journeymen. To which he was pretty successful. Though he may not have a ring, he did reach the conf. finals with 2 different teams. Arguably given the team in Detroit he may have underacheived, this was a team that was put together by Larry Brown..in other words it was Browns team. Some will probably discount that, but IMO, that made a difference.
5. And this is just my suspicion, one of my thoughts concerning Flip is that even though he was very busy with BB, somehow he seemed to have time to be a father. His kids all seem pretty adjusted and going well in live. I think one of his passions to work with the Gophers, if he really does is that he wants to be a healthy influence in their lives.
6. As for his overall record as a HC, Given what he had to work with in MN, I thought he did spectacular with the TWolves, though I gotta agree with the comment the team needed a fresh voice. I will even agree that he underacheived at Detroit given the team he inherited...but maybe Brown knew something when he left. As for Washington, who has ever won there.
7. and last point...name any other TWolves coach that got the team to the playoffs?

 

[Halsey Hall]

as far as

 

[calminnfan]

as far as

Conference finals, or even to the playoffs. I realize he was one and done most of the times, but given what he had to work with, that in itself was pretty spectacular...He did make the conference finals one year and if the point guard Cassell had not been injured, the team would have been playing for the ring.

 

[Bob_Loblaw]

I wondered if you would see that. Not meant as a jab, just pointing out the similarities - two pretty reasonable guys who fixate on an issue and seem unable to leave it alone. Hmm, now that does seem like a jab but it wasn't meant to be.

I am off to bed now before I dig myself any deeper.

I'm not fixated on the issue. This is a thread about hiring Flip Saunders as the next coach of the Gophers. I am as fixated on the subject as the people who are for him being hired. I'm just on the other side of the issue. I am not starting threads to bash Flip, I'm not going out of my way to bash Flip. I've commented on tons of threads with Flip where I didn't give my opinions on him. I'm as fixated/obsessed with Flip as anyone else who is arguing for the hiring. I'm just alone in my opinion (for the most part). I've commented all over the non-Flip Saunders threads.

 

[Bob_Loblaw]

Conference finals, or even to the playoffs. I realize he was one and done most of the times, but given what he had to work with, that in itself was pretty spectacular...He did make the conference finals one year and if the point guard Cassell had not been injured, the team would have been playing for the ring.

He had a ton of talent to work with Detroit. That was a team coming off of two FINALS appearances.

MN, well, that's the big debate. Everyone knows he was a dumpster fire in Washington (you can blame who you want, him, the GM, or a combo) and everyone knows he won games in Detroit (you can give credit where you want, him or Brown).

The real question is how you view his time with the Wolves. I think he was a disappointment, you seem to think it was spectacular. That's where the disagreement exists.

 

[Bob_Loblaw]

Bob, I'm arguing for two reasons I think...one, my opinion is different than yours about Flip and two, I almost always agree, enjoy and respect your insights on the football side. I respect your opinion on Flip, I'm just surprised by it.

No I hear you, no disrespect at all with the differences of opinion. I realize that I'm in the vast minority on the issue. I don't think anyone's dumb or illogical for wanting Flip, I'm just debating the guy.

If he's hired, I hope I eat crow. I'll cheer my butt off for Flip if he's here.

 

[sec105]

Posted by Bob_Loblaw

I'm not fixated on the issue. This is a thread about hiring Flip Saunders as the next coach of the Gophers. I am as fixated on the subject as the people who are for him being hired. I'm just on the other side of the issue. I am not starting threads to bash Flip, I'm not going out of my way to bash Flip. I've commented on tons of threads with Flip where I didn't give my opinions on him. I'm as fixated/obsessed with Flip as anyone else who is arguing for the hiring. I'm just alone in my opinion (for the most part). I've commented all over the non-Flip Saunders threads.

You made your point about 500 times today Bob. We get it!

And YES you are going out of your way "to bash Flip"!

 

[bga1]

He had a ton of talent to work with Detroit. That was a team coming off of two FINALS appearances.

MN, well, that's the big debate. Everyone knows he was a dumpster fire in Washington (you can blame who you want, him, the GM, or a combo) and everyone knows he won games in Detroit (you can give credit where you want, him or Brown).

The real question is how you view his time with the Wolves. I think he was a disappointment, you seem to think it was spectacular. That's where the disagreement exists.

NBA is mostly a players league. You have the players and you likely win. You don't you lose. Garnett sucked up most of the TWolves money and there was little room to add via free agency. The stupid deal Taylor with Smith cost them the picks that might have put them over the top. How's Adelman (great coach) doing with the TWolves? He's getting kicked all over the lot is how he's doing.

 

[Bob_Loblaw]

NBA is mostly a players league. You have the players and you likely win. You don't you lose. Garnett sucked up most of the TWolves money and there was little room to add via free agency. The stupid deal Taylor with Smith cost them the picks that might have put them over the top. How's Adelman (great coach) doing with the TWolves? He's getting kicked all over the lot is how he's doing.

Boston was able to do alright with KG despite his salary.

Draft picks. . .yeah, in some ways it was unfortunate.

It's been a little different situation for Adelman than for Flip. I don't think a conjoined twin of Wooden and Jackson could have gotten much out of a TWolves team who missed AK47, Love, Rubio and Budinger for significant time and Peck for a bit of time too. But I can see why you woudn't give him a pass this year playing with a our NBDL team of replacements and give Flip a pass for his "job" in Washington.

 

[calminnfan]

He had a ton of talent to work with Detroit. That was a team coming off of two FINALS appearances.

MN, well, that's the big debate. Everyone knows he was a dumpster fire in Washington (you can blame who you want, him, the GM, or a combo) and everyone knows he won games in Detroit (you can give credit where you want, him or Brown).

The real question is how you view his time with the Wolves. I think he was a disappointment, you seem to think it was spectacular. That's where the disagreement exists.

Not sure their is going to be any agreement on that one. Though he had KG and for a few years Marbury until Marbury's ego got in the way they had the makings of a good team. Though Brandon was a good PG, he was often injured and his status is what kept the TWolves from committing to Billups. Here is Billups Wikipedia write up, some of which directly quotes him.

"Billups was drafted third overall in the 1997 NBA Draft by the Boston Celtics. He did not mesh with new Celtics head coach Rick Pitino. Years later, Billups reflected on his stint his Boston, commenting, "That didn't help. That didn't give me a chance to really slow down and listen to myself, listen to the game and what's going on. I never really had that chance. It was a recipe for disaster there." In addition, the Celtics coaching staff did not know whether to play him as a point guard or shooting guard. 51 games later, Billups was traded to the Toronto Raptors in exchange for All-Star point guard Kenny Anderson on the last day of the 1997-98 NBA trading deadline. After a few months, Billups then played for his hometown Denver Nuggets, who traded him to the Orlando Magic. He was on the injured list until season's end due to an injured shoulder and never played a game for Orlando (he was included on the season-ending team photo, wearing jersey number 2). Among NBA circles, Billups was considered a draft bust.

Billups was signed by the Minnesota Timberwolves as a back-up to then point guard Terrell Brandon, who would mentor the troubled player alongside Sam Mitchell and Kevin Garnett. The two would work on shooting, scouting, decision-making and the other attributes that came with playing point guard in the NBA.

During the 2001-02 season, Brandon suffered a serious knee injury. Billups replaced him and had a breakthrough 2001–02 season. Timberwolves won 50 games before they were swept by Dallas in Round 1 of the playoffs, with Billups averaging 22 points per game in the series.After his breakthrough season, Billups became a free agent. Billups had wanted to return to Minnesota, however the Timberwolves were engulfed in salary-cap issues and wanted to see how Brandon would respond to his knee injury.

In June 2002, Billups signed a six-year, $35 million contract with the Detroit Pistons to be the team's new starting point guard.[4] When he signed with the Pistons, he was forced to take the number 1 because number 4 was retired in honor of Joe Dumars. Billups quickly earned respect from Pistons fans and colleagues for his tenacious defense and clutch shooting."

I will say the write-up does give a good amount of credit to Brandon helping him along with KG and Mitchell. Anyway, when Billups got to MN, he was a mess.

As for Sealy, in 8 years he was with 4 teams, the TWolves being his last. Over his career he averaged 10.1 Points per game.

Anyway, the crux of the matter concerning Flip's time with the TWolves is that I feel Flip got as much as he could from the talent he had. I am not sure spectacular is the right word, but I do fail to see his time coaching the TWolves as dissappointing, given the amount of times he made it. And though most of his playoff appearances were one and done, especially since he almost always came up against the Lakers, it was obvious from the play he was not given the overall team talent to succeed.

Given no other TWolves coach has gotten the team anywhere near the playoffs, that seems to be pretty respectable IMO.

Anyway, personally I seriously doubt NT is going to hire him. My point is that he is a legitimate fall back option and does bring some benefits both as a coach and someone many concerned with the BB program could get behind. Along with that, and truly this is just me, but he could very much be a father/mentor figure for the kids.

Peace Bro!

 

[Seany]

If Flip is simply a 'fall back' option at this time, then he's one heck of a fall back, as there is no one in my opinion who could or would be so emotionally invested as he into this Golden Gophers basketball team. He's got maroon and gold blood coursing through his veins, and not to mention heavy, heavy credibility working in his favor (and all nitpicking debates aside as we try and split the head of a pin well into and beyond infinity- the guy has serious credentials, particularly for those players **cough** Big Three, who might have NBA aspirations in their futures).

He'd be an extremely popular pick and might very well be the peoples choice, if the people would be heard.

No matter what, if he's merely our fall back option, than we are in a damned fortunate situation, as we could do far, far worse than to hire Flip to come back and coach his Gophers.