Its early--- Tubby vs Pitino

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jumpstop said:
I just watched a replay of the game. This team struggled with Coastal Carolina having to play its starters for most of the game. I fail to see the upside of this team or the creative genius on the bench. Tubby easily handled this part of the schedule while giving most of the team significant playing time. Pitino already has a short bench which will hurt them come February. The only positive move that I have seen by Pitino is bringing in a qualified point guard and pushing Dre to the two. However, the size and strength of this point guard may prove to be problematic come Big 10 play. Tubby's loyalty to Hollins and playing him at the point and not recruiting over him derailed a team that propably could have reached the Elite 8. The finishing ability and athleticism on that team was second to none and just needed competent point guard play.
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You're a Tubby fan not a Gopher fan. Please move on to the Texas Tech forum.
 

lol, sorry for the misspellings. I was kind of in a rush during lunch hour.
 

DeathClutch said:
You're a Tubby fan not a Gopher fan. Please move on to the Texas Tech forum.
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I can't even begin to describe of big of a tool you're and I like Pitino, I think unless Vaughn comes and jump starts the process, by the time Mason, Martin and whoever else signs up are seniors, hopefully will have Big Al, Jarvis, Sacar and Coffey or players of their caliber, we will really see what Pitino Jr can do. Jumpstop gave his opinion and some of it was critical to Tubby and I agree with most of that assessment. Tubby did better than Monson, but he was paid like Izzo and when you're paid like Izzo you can't put out Glen Mason like results.
 

bemidjigopher said:
I can't even begin to describe of big of a tool you're and I like Pitino, I think unless Vaughn comes and jump starts the process, by the time Mason, Martin and whoever else signs up are seniors, hopefully will have Big Al, Jarvis, Sacar and Coffey or players of their caliber, we will really see what Pitino Jr can do. Jumpstop gave his opinion and some of it was critical to Tubby and I agree with most of that assessment. Tubby did better than Monson, but he was paid like Izzo and when you're paid like Izzo you can't put out Glen Mason like results.
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I'm just stating my opinion as well and I have yet to see Jump post anything positive about the current Gophers. Only posts like, Tubby will be able to recruit more athletic players because he is at Texas Tech, which is a baffling statement.
 

bemidjigopher said:
I can't even begin to describe of big of a tool you're and I like Pitino, I think unless Vaughn comes and jump starts the process, by the time Mason, Martin and whoever else signs up are seniors, hopefully will have Big Al, Jarvis, Sacar and Coffey or players of their caliber, we will really see what Pitino Jr can do. Jumpstop gave his opinion and some of it was critical to Tubby and I agree with most of that assessment. Tubby did better than Monson, but he was paid like Izzo and when you're paid like Izzo you can't put out Glen Mason like results.
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:confused::confused::confused::confused:
 


bemidjigopher said:
I can't even begin to describe of big of a tool you're and I like Pitino, I think unless Vaughn comes and jump starts the process, by the time Mason, Martin and whoever else signs up are seniors, hopefully will have Big Al, Jarvis, Sacar and Coffey or players of their caliber, we will really see what Pitino Jr can do. Jumpstop gave his opinion and some of it was critical to Tubby and I agree with most of that assessment. Tubby did better than Monson, but he was paid like Izzo and when you're paid like Izzo you can't put out Glen Mason like results.
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English your second language is could be? Thoughts rambling incoherent Big Al Sacar is Glen Mason like Izzo.
 

short ornery norwegian said:
IMHO there are a lot of people on this board who have given Pitino a stature he does not deserve. He is an unproven coach at this level. There are no guarantees that he can coach, recruit and win consistently at a major D1 conference. He is an intriguing young coach because of his family ties. If the Gophs had hired a coach with the exact same record named Rich Smith or Rich Jones, I don't think people would be rushing to proclaim him as the savior...
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I am getting sick and tired of people claiming that the only reason Pitino got the job, or why people are impressed with him is because of his name!

Do you really think we are that stupid? Have you even taken the time to listen to his interviews, the feedback from practices, the dramatic changes in the players attitudes, etc... If he was a young Louisville assistant name Donovan he would have got the job. It is obvious to anyone who takes the time to learn the details that this man knows basketball. Also, he is infected with a can-do attitude that breeds winning, not excuses. He knew it would take some time to build a new private practice facility so he just made one out of an old gym next door. He is not afraid to step in toe to toe with the big boys in going after top recruits. And don't overlook what he was able to accomplish last year at a perineal loser with a team filled with walk-ons. The man is a winner that wants to build his own legacy and he plans to do it at the U. He does not want to follow in his dad's footprints.

So enough claiming the people only like him because his name is Pitino!
 

Gut tells me that Pitino is going to be a fantastic coach! He has started his career at U of Minnesota, so far, doing well. Hopefully it stays that way...
 

For those who want to understand some other sources of optimism is the fact that Pitino and his staff utilize many of advanst analytical models used to determine the type of players to recruit, for use in pre-game prep, and to assist in making in-game time adjustments. Pitino and his staff are going to try to leverage every advantage to create a winning environment and giving the team a chance to compete.

For an example of why this is important you can follow the link below.

Go to www.jam23.net/bbstatshome.htm for more information. It takes time but refer to www.jam23.net/ncaachamp2013.htm for examples. Also go to www.jam23.net/NumberOneNumbers.pdf for an interpretive article.
 



millions2spare said:
For those who want to understand some other sources of optimism is the fact that Pitino and his staff utilize many of advanst analytical models used to determine the type of players to recruit, for use in pre-game prep, and to assist in making in-game time adjustments. Pitino and his staff are going to try to leverage every advantage to create a winning environment and giving the team a chance to compete.

For an example of why this is important you can follow the link below.

Go to www.jam23.net/bbstatshome.htm for more information. It takes time but refer to www.jam23.net/ncaachamp2013.htm for examples. Also go to www.jam23.net/NumberOneNumbers.pdf for an interpretive article.
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I love this approach. If we can squeeze an extra point or two per on offense or defense every game, we'll be in great shape.
 

Exactly, the game last night was very challenging especially with a short bench, little prep time, and a weak team. However, knowing and understanding all aspects of his players gives us a chance to win or compete in some games that would have been blow-outs or close losses under Tubby. This current team still has many challenges but as I keep saying, we need to enjoy the ride and look with tremendous anticipation towards 2015.
 

millions2spare said:
Exactly, the game last night was very challenging especially with a short bench, little prep time, and a weak team. However, knowing and understanding all aspects of his players gives us a chance to win or compete in some games that would have been blow-outs or close losses under Tubby. This current team still has many challenges but as I keep saying, we need to enjoy the ride and look with tremendous anticipation towards 2015.
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They were playing Wofford all they needed to do was show up.
 

Pretty hard to make any comparison until after the B1G season has completed, cautiously optimistic at this point though, one of the most important aspects of being any type of leader whether it is in business, academics or athletics is the ability to engage, enable, and energize those you are responsible for whether it is an employee, a student, or an athlete. My biggest complaint about Tubby was that he failed to accomplish this, his teams as a collective whole continually tended to underperform, maybe it was Minnesota and he wasn't able to recruit the type of athletes that could be successful with his techniques, whatever it was it wasn't working, this team doesn't have the physical abilities of some of Tubby's teams but from what I am seeing I can't help but think Pitino's methods are going to be more productive, they are playing with a level of confidence they didn't have before, working through rough patches rather than folding, it's going to get a lot tougher as the competition gets better but I honestly believe we will see continued improvement as the season progresses.
 



Jovs, I agree. However, I do not think it is too early to determine that this guy can motivate and coach. We should expect to see improvement into March. That said, this team has some holes that will not be filled until 2015. There will be some upsets along the way and we will get blown out as well. It will be interesting to see how Pitino responds after a close loss at Michigan state or a blow-out loss to Iowa. His leadership still however breeds success in no matter what realm you manage.

jovs said:
Pretty hard to make any comparison until after the B1G season has completed, cautiously optimistic at this point though, one of the most important aspects of being any type of leader whether it is in business, academics or athletics is the ability to engage, enable, and energize those you are responsible for whether it is an employee, a student, or an athlete. My biggest complaint about Tubby was that he failed to accomplish this, his teams as a collective whole continually tended to underperform, maybe it was Minnesota and he wasn't able to recruit the type of athletes that could be successful with his techniques, whatever it was it wasn't working, this team doesn't have the physical abilities of some of Tubby's teams but from what I am seeing I can't help but think Pitino's methods are going to be more productive, they are playing with a level of confidence they didn't have before, working through rough patches rather than folding, it's going to get a lot tougher as the competition gets better but I honestly believe we will see continued improvement as the season progresses.
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jumpstop said:
I just watched a replay of the game. This team struggled with Coastal Carolina having to play its starters for most of the game. I fail to see the upside of this team or the creative genius on the bench. Tubby easily handled this part of the schedule while giving most of the team significant playing time. Pitino already has a short bench which will hurt them come February. The only positive move that I have seen by Pitino is bringing in a qualified point guard and pushing Dre to the two. However, the size and strength of this point guard may prove to be problematic come Big 10 play. Tubby's loyalty to Hollins and playing him at the point and not recruiting over him derailed a team that propably could have reached the Elite 8. The finishing ability and athleticism on that team was second to none and just needed competent point guard play.
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I think it is a little early to have too much of an opinion at this point. We will see I guess.

As for the bolded, you are just wrong. We sometimes have selective memory. Just two years ago during a 5-game stretch, we beat an okay Fairfield team by 10, blew out Mount St. Mary's, barely beat a very bad DePaul team by 1, beat an average Indiana St. team by 7, then got beaten badly by Dayton (I know Mbakwe got hurt in that game but we were playing awful even before that).

That was just one example. Not trying to start a fight, just saying that your statement is false.
 

Let's be fair to Tubby

We all understand the problems the Gophers had in Big Ten play under Tubby (especially in February), but it would be an injustice to not give Tubby credit for the success the Gophers had during the nonconference season. Yes, I fully comprehend our nonconference home schedules were not stellar (I frequently questioned the lack of quality home opponents), but the Gophers had some top-shelf November/December wins, and they rarely lost games they were supposed to win. Given the volume of head-scratching upsets in college basketball every November and December, I don't think the latter (beating teams you're expected to) should be so easily dismissed. By & large the Gophers beat who they were supposed to beat, but it wasn't just that. Under Tubby they logged significant wins away from Williams Arena (Butler, Louisville, Memphis, North Carolina, West Virginia). He wasn't just beating the cupcakes.

Tubby's nonconference record at Williams Arena in six seasons, excluding the Postseason NIT (to reiterate, I'm aware of the opponents)?

50-1.

If Pitino does that in his first six seasons, no matter the competition, color me thrilled.

An argument could be made that under Tubby the Gophers lost only four nonconference games they should not have, and none of those save for maybe Portland in Anaheim in 2009 could be considered truly head-scratching. The others were @ Miami in 2009, Virginia @ The Barn in 2010, and Dayton in Orlando in 2011. The only other nonconferences losses were @ Florida State (NIT qualifier) & @ UNLV (NCAA qualifier) in 2007, vs. Texas A&M (NCAA) in Anaheim in 2009, and vs. Duke (NCAA) in the Bahamas in 2012.

Despite the Gophers' inability to get over .500 in conference play under Tubby -- a frustration for all of us -- the work they did pre-Big Ten season should not be poo-pooed. It helped lead to three NCAA Tournament appearances in six seasons.
 

dpodoll68 said:
Whatever you say, Ms. Forrest.

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Boil any bunnies lately?



Stop bashing the former coach for no reason. Why is it that it's ok for everyone to assassinate the man's reputation, but a cardinal sin to stand up for the coach who led the school to its best season in 23 years? I'd be happy to never talk about Tubby again. The next time you find me initiating a Tubby conversation will be the first. You and all of your Tubby-bashing buddies need to quit talking about Tubby, and then I'll stop defending him. It's really quite simple.
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Bee

Ess
 

SelectionSunday said:
We all understand the problems the Gophers had in Big Ten play under Tubby (especially in February), but it would be an injustice to not give Tubby credit for the success the Gophers had during the nonconference season. Yes, I fully comprehend our nonconference home schedules were not stellar (I frequently questioned the lack of quality home opponents), but the Gophers had some top-shelf November/December wins, and they rarely lost games they were supposed to win. Given the volume of head-scratching upsets in college basketball every November and December, I don't think the latter (beating teams you're expected to) should be so easily dismissed. By & large the Gophers beat who they were supposed to beat, but it wasn't just that. Under Tubby they logged significant wins away from Williams Arena (Butler, Louisville, Memphis, North Carolina, West Virginia). He wasn't just beating the cupcakes.

Tubby's nonconference record at Williams Arena in six seasons, excluding the Postseason NIT (to reiterate, I'm aware of the opponents)?

50-1.

If Pitino does that in his first six seasons, no matter the competition, color me thrilled.

An argument could be made that under Tubby the Gophers lost only four nonconference games they should not have, and none of those save for maybe Portland in Anaheim in 2009 could be considered truly head-scratching. The others were @ Miami in 2009, Virginia @ The Barn in 2010, and Dayton in Orlando in 2011. The only other nonconferences losses were @ Florida State (NIT qualifier) & @ UNLV (NCAA qualifier) in 2007, vs. Texas A&M (NCAA) in Anaheim in 2009, and vs. Duke (NCAA) in the Bahamas in 2012.

Despite the Gophers' inability to get over .500 in conference play under Tubby -- a frustration for all of us -- the work they did pre-Big Ten season should not be poo-pooed. It helped lead to three NCAA Tournament appearances in six seasons.
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True enough.

However the overall success of the team, the manner in which the meltdowns happened, and the look of disinterest from a man making a couple mil a year was truly sad.
 


This is not a bash Tubby post but a praise Pitino one....Pitino will elevate the program to levels not seen since Clem haskins. Tubby could never get this program to that point. Maybe it was because of Maturi, Tubby's weak assistants, or a guy coasting, I do not know. All we do know for sure is that the team are true believers in Pitino ball and the rank and file in the State will soon follow. 2015 is the time when he can fully execute the system. Get a 4 and a 5 who can shoot the 3ball and knock down 12 footers and we will have a special special run for years to come.
 

I too believe removing tubby and going with Pitino was a good move for the long range focus of the program. However, Pitino may have been on the short list for a lot of great players, he didn't land them and his class coming in is no better than Tubby's work.....actually below Tubby's first year of work.

That being said I believe this team will end up winning less big ten games than we did last year. I hope that if that unfortunately happens that people will be fair to Pitino and give him time to build his program. Just like we need to give Wally and Buggs time before we all jump on the transfer wagon.
 

I agree with this. One reason I think Pitino will be able to win more with less is his ability to develop players. I already see improvements in Elliott, Otto, and even Dre. If any program is not getting the elite 4 and 5 star recruits, it is up to the coaching staff to coach them up. I saw players like Rodney, Ralph digress under Tubby. Player development will be critical for Pitino's success-long term.


XMan said:
I too believe removing tubby and going with Pitino was a good move for the long range focus of the program. However, Pitino may have been on the short list for a lot of great players, he didn't land them and his class coming in is no better than Tubby's work.....actually below Tubby's first year of work.

That being said I believe this team will end up winning less big ten games than we did last year. I hope that if that unfortunately happens that people will be fair to Pitino and give him time to build his program. Just like we need to give Wally and Buggs time before we all jump on the transfer wagon.
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millions2spare said:
I agree with this. One reason I think Pitino will be able to win more with less is his ability to develop players. I already see improvements in Elliott, Otto, and even Dre. If any program is not getting the elite 4 and 5 star recruits, it is up to the coaching staff to coach them up. I saw players like Rodney, Ralph digress under Tubby. Player development will be critical for Pitino's success-long term.
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I think you mean regress, I think it's ridiculous to argue that Rodney got worse over his four years.
 

Cayman said:
I think you mean regress, I think it's ridiculous to argue that Rodney got worse over his four years.
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It'd be equally ridiculous to argue that he got much better. In fact, I think you could credibly argue he got worse from his junior year to his senior year.
 

millions2spare said:
I agree with this. One reason I think Pitino will be able to win more with less is his ability to develop players. I already see improvements in Elliott, Otto, and even Dre. If any program is not getting the elite 4 and 5 star recruits, it is up to the coaching staff to coach them up. I saw players like Rodney, Ralph digress under Tubby. Player development will be critical for Pitino's success-long term.
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Most players improve from their sophomore to junior year. EE only needed more minutes to improve, and Oto needed a defined role and consistent minutes.
 


howieramone said:
Most players improve from their sophomore to junior year. EE only needed more minutes to improve, and Oto needed a defined role and consistent minutes.
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That's funny. "Starting forward" is a defined role?
 

millions2spare said:
I agree with this. One reason I think Pitino will be able to win more with less is his ability to develop players. I already see improvements in Elliott, Otto, and even Dre. If any program is not getting the elite 4 and 5 star recruits, it is up to the coaching staff to coach them up. I saw players like Rodney, Ralph digress under Tubby. Player development will be critical for Pitino's success-long term.
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You just opened up the whole tubby doesn't develop players discussion!?!?!?!
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