Its early--- Tubby vs Pitino

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mplarson7 said:
I told my dad when the NCAA draw came out that if we beat UCLA and Tubby came back for another year, Tubby should personally call the NCAA and thank them. That UCLA team was a train wreck waiting to happen.

Tubby won a lot of games here, this is true. We had some very good wins, but also some terrible terrible losses. Stagnant, standing around offense. I was sick of watching in-game meltdowns and the month of February....PTSD flashbacks. Anyone remember the Iowa game this year when we started the game up 21-5 and ended up losing by 20? That should never happen. The line changes that cost us the lead in nearly every game...ugh.

It wasn't working anymore. A change was needed.
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Probably one of the best posts/replies of this discussion.

I'm just happy Mr Teague is in charge and not Mr Dpo.
 

dpodoll68 said:
Not legitimately, it didn't.



Dewey defeated Truman. It was in a newspaper, so it must've happened.
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Don Dpod, that's a poor analogy. Dewey defeating Truman was a headline printed before results occurred. The Gophers making the Final Four occurred but the results were stricken after the fact. You just failed the LSAT. Got any more names to call people today, or are you feeling slightly more secure with yourself?
 


Gopherguy0723 said:
Got any more names to call people today, or are you feeling slightly more secure with yourself?
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Got any more of my posts to stalk today, or are you feeling slightly more secure with yourself?
 


this thread is why I love and hate Gopher Hole at the same time.

My 2-cents:

At this point, comparing Pitino to any established coach is not a fair comparison. I think you have to let Pitino coach (at the very least) 1 full season in a major conference before making any comparisons.

IMHO there are a lot of people on this board who have given Pitino a stature he does not deserve. He is an unproven coach at this level. There are no guarantees that he can coach, recruit and win consistently at a major D1 conference. He is an intriguing young coach because of his family ties. If the Gophs had hired a coach with the exact same record named Rich Smith or Rich Jones, I don't think people would be rushing to proclaim him as the savior.

As far as Tubby is concerned, I wanted it to work at the U - but I finally concluded that it wasn't working. Yes, Tubby brought some success - but as someone who has been watching Gopher BB since the Musselman years, Tubby's best teams were not even close to the best teams for Muss, Dutcher and Clem. Here is the best way I can put it: when I watched the good teams for Muss, Dutch and Clem, I felt they would find a way to win. When I watched Tubby's teams, I sat there wondering how they would find a way to blow the game. In a weird way, Tubby is like Pitino in reverse - his name and record afforded him a certain stature, but I don't think his performance lived up to that stature. I expected more than Tubby delivered.

And having said that, I will agree with Dpo to this extent: Tubby is gone. Let's look forward. The last thing this board needs is to turn into the FB board where every 2 weeks they get into another urinating match over Mason vs. Brewster or Mason vs. Kill.

Nuf said. Now, I have to go to a city council meeting......................
 

Cayman said:
We also had suffered significant personnel losses either before or during the Big Ten season in multiple years, especially in 2010-11 when we had something like 7 scholarship players available for the final two thirds of the Big Ten schedule and our walk-ons were seeing minutes when the games were still in question. For the last few games of our 2012 NIT run, when we were playing very well other than the final against Stanford, we had 4 forwards sidelined with injuries. Ingram, Rodney, and Elliot were the only players we had who were over 6'4". Tubby had access to a full roster of players for less than half the time he was here.

The reason I don't hate Tubby is because he seemed to frequently have us on the verge of being really good, but something would almost always go wrong, and the window of opportunity would close on our fingers.
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He was adequate until he lost his fire and started taking naps on the sidelines. He could have been more than adequate if he had the confidence (or common sense) to hire at least average assistants and above average recruiters
 



dpodoll68 said:
It's funny to me that fans of a team go to such extraordinary lengths to rationalize and pretzel and twist away the best season in 23 years - all because they so hated the coach who dared to do it.



That, and the 17 prior!
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Awesome year with a below .500 Big 10 record!!! That is what we should aspire towards. With the current play-in format, at least 2 of Clem's teams that got screwed on Selection Sunday would have gotten in like Tubby snuck in
 

cncmin said:
This is simply not true (bolded statement). There was a lot of optimism going into last season, and even more optimism after some of the early pre-season games. Suddenly things went south again, and Tubby couldn't right the ship...again. In the beginning of every year under Tubby there was a fair bit of optimism. Kind of like now.
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Not every year...Fool me once, ..... Fool me 6 times, ......
 

jumpstop said:
Tubby had a very good run here with his type of recruits but he could only bring so many here from out of state and there was a limited supply in state. Tubby had great talent here but having to sign spring recruits due to deflections and lack of consistent high level local talent have left this roster void of talent. This is a tough place to coach as Pitino will discover. As I stated , it will be easier to find and recruit talented athletes that fit his style in Texas than Minnesota. The point guard and power forward on Texas Tech appear to be players and when Tubby has something to work with he has proven to be successful. He should have realized that he could not sustain a high level program here for reasons stated above and left three or four years ago.
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Saul, there is video work to be done. Tubby told Donna to ask you to quit surfing
 




jmag21 said:
I loved Tubby, and I thought he did a great job for us, and was sabotaged by just plain bad luck often. The main differences I've seen between Pitino and Tubby are that Pitino has far more energy, and his team is more flexible in terms of sets, plays, and game styles. I like that. On the other hand, Tubby had more gravitas, and I think he had a greater store of respect from the parents and families of recruits, as witnessed by the fact that he had some great recruiting classes here (that didn't end up working out, for the ill luck reasons I mentioned earlier). Basically, Tubby was a legend, and we were lucky that he was able to build our program up after Monson dug us out of the Clem hole. Now, Richard's our coach, and I'm very much liking what we're seeing from him so far. Hopefully, he'll be able to carve out a career here that rivals what his dad and Tubby and Gillespie have crafted for themselves. But I see no reason why loving Pitino means diminishing what Tubby accomplished.
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Tore down his players rather than build up the program. Hall of famers don't do that
 

jamalo said:
Tore down his players rather than build up the program. Hall of famers don't do that
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Bill Self after loss to TCU last year:

The team's effort was horrendous.
They couldn't guard TCU's players.
They played as bad as they could play offensively.
They got open looks but weren't hitting them.
"This is the worst team that Kansas has ever put on the floor."
"There hasn't been a team that has played worse than that offensively, anywhere. Maybe Northern Illinois."
"Elijah's got both hands on a loose ball, but he loses it and they make a three."
"I hoped that Perry could get going, but obviously that didn't happen."
"If we could start three guys, we'd do that, but they're gonna make us put five out there."
"We're not very tough. When things don't go well, we doubt, we quit being aggressive."
"We don't have great players."
"We're not playing well together, and individually we're not playing well."

http://www2.kusports.com/podcasts/p...b/06/ku-coach-bill-self-talks-after-loss-tcu/

I would think at least one or two of those quotes qualifies as tearing down players, in case saying the whole team played like crap doesn't count.
 

Basically the argument people are making for Tubby in this thread comes down to: he did better than Monson (who was under severe restrictions), and his program didn't get caught cheating, and those two things should be good enough for Minnesota. In my opinion, that is the outlook of a loser, and I am glad our athletic department isn't run by losers.

And why did I know this thread would eventually devolve into one sad poster arguing that we don't have a Final Four appearance? :rolleyes: While we unfortunately get no banner in our arena, in case you missed it you can still buy the DVD of our Final Four game against Kentucky on the official NCAA store. I and most other Gopher fans laugh at the NCAA's attempt to erase a season after it happened (if it made sense to do that, the NFL would have taken away the Saints' tainted 'win' over the Vikings and subsequent Super Bowl), and while the subsequent scandal was unfortunate we remember that season itself as one of our greatest MN sports memories.
 

WanderingGopher said:
Basically the argument people are making for Tubby in this thread comes down to: he did better than Monson (who was under severe restrictions), and his program didn't get caught cheating, and those two things should be good enough for Minnesota. In my opinion, that is the outlook of a loser, and I am glad our athletic department isn't run by losers.

And why did I know this thread would eventually devolve into one sad poster arguing that we don't have a Final Four appearance? :rolleyes: While we unfortunately get no banner in our arena, in case you missed it you can still buy the DVD of our Final Four game against Kentucky on the official NCAA store. I and most other Gopher fans laugh at the NCAA's attempt to erase a season after it happened (if it made sense to do that, the NFL would have taken away the Saints' tainted 'win' over the Vikings and subsequent Super Bowl), and while the subsequent scandal was unfortunate we remember that season itself as one of our greatest MN sports memories.
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I have the VHS.
 

We will have a couple more 1997's.......wait till this program starts rocking in 2015! We need to be patient until then. The journey is going to be a little bit of a wild ride as Pitino instills his unique system and recruits his players.
 

millions2spare said:
We will have a couple more 1997's.......wait till this program starts rocking in 2015! We need to be patient until then. The journey is going to be a little bit of a wild ride as Pitino instills his unique system and recruits his players.
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I think if you remain patient, that would be a good example to the rest of the lunatic fringe.
 

jumpstop said:
Tubby will be able to recruit much better athletes at TT than he did at Minnesota which fits in with his style. I predict that he will have a very good run there which will improve with each recruiting class. Do you think that this team with EE, Oto, and King in the paint can beat Texas Tech now? I am not so sure.
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Why on earth would Tubby "be able to recruit much better athletes at TT than he did at Minnesota"? Have you ever been to Lubbock?
 


Cayman said:
Bill Self after loss to TCU last year:

The team's effort was horrendous.
They couldn't guard TCU's players.
They played as bad as they could play offensively.
They got open looks but weren't hitting them.
"This is the worst team that Kansas has ever put on the floor."
"There hasn't been a team that has played worse than that offensively, anywhere. Maybe Northern Illinois."
"Elijah's got both hands on a loose ball, but he loses it and they make a three."
"I hoped that Perry could get going, but obviously that didn't happen."
"If we could start three guys, we'd do that, but they're gonna make us put five out there."
"We're not very tough. When things don't go well, we doubt, we quit being aggressive."
"We don't have great players."
"We're not playing well together, and individually we're not playing well."

http://www2.kusports.com/podcasts/p...b/06/ku-coach-bill-self-talks-after-loss-tcu/

I would think at least one or two of those quotes qualifies as tearing down players, in case saying the whole team played like crap doesn't count.
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There is a place and time.... Tubby never used an over the top example such as the one you posted here, his was subtle jabs that he used in almost every press conference after losses in which he often deflected blame.

The example you just posted was fodder for a lesson Self was teaching his team. Bill Self is not that critical all the time.
 

Like most, I was excited when Tubby arrived. He definitely moved the program in the right direction. Several things got old though. His lack of fire/excitement. Inability of his teams in the half court set and inability to defend the 3. Like I said though, overall he did fine.

Richard's excitement/fire/intensity is contagious. I realize he's young and just started the job, but it's great to see. Of course some inexperience will hurt him at times, but his teams will be IN SHAPE and play an exciting brand of ball. Only time will tell on his true success obviously, but he's definitely pumped some life back into the program after a few deflating years.
 

I liked what Richard Patino said when he was talking about Malik Smith... something to the effect of "I don't want Malik to shoot always looking over his shoulder." Patino understands what that could do to a guy. Also, you look at how Oto is playing... You'd think it was a totally different player wearing Oto's uniform. I've always been on Oto's case... but I'll be the first to admit now that he is playing great. It's this thing called Confidence. Some coaches were great at breaking player's confidence... It seems Patino is great at building a player's confidence.
 

RolGnav said:
I liked what Richard Patino said when he was talking about Malik Smith... something to the effect of "I don't want Malik to shoot always looking over his shoulder." Patino understands what that could do to a guy. Also, you look at how Oto is playing... You'd think it was a totally different player wearing Oto's uniform. I've always been on Oto's case... but I'll be the first to admit now that he is playing great. It's this thing called Confidence. Some coaches were great at breaking player's confidence... It seems Patino is great at building a player's confidence.
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I completely agree with you, but you should learn how to spell our coach's name.
 

RolGnav said:
I liked what Richard Patino said when he was talking about Malik Smith... something to the effect of "I don't want Malik to shoot always looking over his shoulder." Patino understands what that could do to a guy. Also, you look at how Oto is playing... You'd think it was a totally different player wearing Oto's uniform. I've always been on Oto's case... but I'll be the first to admit now that he is playing great. It's this thing called Confidence. Some coaches were great at breaking player's confidence... It seems Patino is great at building a player's confidence.
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While I agree with what you're saying, it's "Pitino". Sorry, it kind of bugs me. Maybe it shouldn't??
 

millions2spare said:
We will have a couple more 1997's.......wait till this program starts rocking in 2015! We need to be patient until then. The journey is going to be a little bit of a wild ride as Pitino instills his unique system and recruits his players.
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2015 and 2016 are the key seasons. That's when he'll have all his players in place for his system, and he'll have had time to recruit some really talented players. Then again, on the off chance that Vaughn commits to Minnesota, next season could be very special. Mathieu, Hollins, and Vaughn would be dynamite together.
 

jamalo said:
Awesome year with a below .500 Big 10 record!!! That is what we should aspire towards. With the current play-in format, at least 2 of Clem's teams that got screwed on Selection Sunday would have gotten in like Tubby snuck in
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Who said we should aspire to a sub .500 record? I would like to see that quote!
 

cncmin said:
Not sure if Rich Pitino will be great or not (I'm cautiously optimistic!), but his predecessor had underachieving defenses (little defense of the 3-point line and overly aggressive interior blocking schemes that gave up unnecessary offensive board) and no offensive identity. I would like to see both of those reversed.
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This.
 

I just watched a replay of the game. This team struggled with Coastal Carolina having to play its starters for most of the game. I fail to see the upside of this team or the creative genius on the bench. Tubby easily handled this part of the schedule while giving most of the team significant playing time. Pitino already has a short bench which will hurt them come February. The only positive move that I have seen by Pitino is bringing in a qualified point guard and pushing Dre to the two. However, the size and strength of this point guard may prove to be problematic come Big 10 play. Tubby's loyalty to Hollins and playing him at the point and not recruiting over him derailed a team that propably could have reached the Elite 8. The finishing ability and athleticism on that team was second to none and just needed competent point guard play.
 

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