How bad could Buggs be? ... 2/25/14 Update: Not bad at all!

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Not saying you are, but we cannot get too high on this kid. He like quintupled his output from his entire career. I see the upside of Charles Buggs as much as the next guy, but there is a reason he hasn't play significant minutes until now. There is a reason that Joey played at the end of the game and Buggs scored 2 points in the 2nd half. He provided a huge lightening rod tonight when all was lost after EE's 2nd foul. But he is still an unknown, with a lot of upside.
 

Winasota Gopher said:
Not saying you are, but we cannot get too high on this kid. He like quintupled his output from his entire career. I see the upside of Charles Buggs as much as the next guy, but there is a reason he hasn't play significant minutes until now. There is a reason that Joey played at the end of the game and Buggs scored 2 points in the 2nd half. He provided a huge lightening rod tonight when all was lost after EE's 2nd foul. But he is still an unknown, with a lot of upside.
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Clearly he won't play like he did tonight every game. But it's so obvious how much more talent he has than Oto, that it's almost criminal that he hasn't played.
 

Once he puts on a little more weight, and just gets some more experience, he could be a nightmare to defend against. He was fading away a little bit in a few of his jumpers, impossible to defend with his length. I'd think he will be perfect to put at the top of the key against the 2-3 zone.
 

I liked that he played very much under control and wasn't forcing the issue, taking chances, etc. He also looked confident and took care of the basketball. He didn't look indecisive and did not fumble the ball around.

Oh, and he drilled a few 3 pointers.

Lots to like.
 

howeda7 said:
Clearly he won't play like he did tonight every game. But it's so obvious how much more talent he has than Oto, that it's almost criminal that he hasn't played.
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There is something there, behind the scenes, because I'm with you... After seeing his abilities, why not throw him out there its not like Oto is a physical specimen that throws his weight around down there....

I just like how the pick n roll has to be much more honest with him on the court as he has the pick n pop we are sorely lacking. Not to mention it pulls a big out of the middle of the court for DeAndre to operate.
 


Costa Rican Gopher said:
Buggs literally can't play on either end of the floor right now.

On Defense the other team will exploit his lack of understanding of team defense for score after score after score. He literally doesn't know where to be, who he is guarding, how/when to call out a switch, proper spacing or any of the fine points that win games. In addition to that he's not a physical player so bigs will come right at him even if it was a simple on on one playground game (which it's not).

On Offense he is lost as well. He doesn't have the strength or attitude to play under the basket. He doesn't have any legit post moves either. Remember he's now played under the basket for one season, so he's still learning. His forte is shooting jumpers & 3's. We can't send a guy who's 6'9" out to shoot 3's because he can't guard anyone coming back the other way.

Buggs has a lot of talent but when we were told he was very raw coming in, well....he is very raw.

I'd rather have a guy like Oto or King score 4 points and give up 10, than a guy who scores 6 points and gives up 32. That's what you'd get with Buggs.
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Sorry, I can't help but laugh at this post after tonight's game. I can't locate a +/- in the box score tonight, but I'm pretty sure his wasn't -26 like you so confidently proclaimed after your in-depth scouting report after his previous 10 minutes!
 

jaymil said:
Yep, there's just nobody else on the roster like him. Austin Hollins is the closest guy as far as length. Buggs is raw and skinny, but it's worth it to play him more considering our other options at PF. He'll have growing pains the next few games but he also provides things that King and Oto can't.
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Not trying to rain on the Buggs parade as I've always been one of his biggest supporters, but I also think we should temper out enthusiasm just a bit. I agree with Winnasota that the best thing to do was sit him for most of the second half and let him build on that first half because there was no way he was going to produce like that in the 2nd half. If you played him down the stretch and he blew the game then what?

I'm really excited that fans got to see what I've been saying here now for 2+ years regarding what kind of role Buggs would play. I've maintained that he's not a PF per se. That he's a 6'8" 3 point/jump shooter, not an under-the-basket PF & I think fans got to see what I've been saying tonight. On D, he's not a team D player yet or a guy who will face up/shut down another big. What he will do is hustle back in transition, come from behind and swat some balls. You don't need to understand the game to do that & it's a big emotional boost for the crowd/team.

Will he play extensively next game? My guess would be "no". Elliot & Mo were both in foul trouble and it's rumored on GI that Oto is injured. Pitino had no one else with any height to throw out there. Overall, this was a very positive game for Buggs & a taste for fans of what his game is like. That said, anyone who watched this game would also have noted how far he still has to go to play major minutes consistently.
 

Winasota Gopher said:
There is something there, behind the scenes, because I'm with you... After seeing his abilities, why not throw him out there its not like Oto is a physical specimen that throws his weight around down there....

I just like how the pick n roll has to be much more honest with him on the court as he has the pick n pop we are sorely lacking. Not to mention it pulls a big out of the middle of the court for DeAndre to operate.
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Are you implying some off the court issue? Maybe, but Pitino doesn't seem like the type to hurt the team to send a message, and if he did something Mo-like we'd have heard about it, I imagine.
 

Costa Rican Gopher said:
Not trying to rain on the Buggs parade as I've always been one of his biggest supporters, but I also think we should temper out enthusiasm just a bit. I agree with Winnasota that the best thing to do was sit him for most of the second half and let him build on that first half because there was no way he was going to produce like that in the 2nd half. If you played him down the stretch and he blew the game then what?

I'm really excited that fans got to see what I've been saying here now for 2+ years regarding what kind of role Buggs would play. I've maintained that he's not a PF per se. That he's a 6'8" 3 point/jump shooter, not an under-the-basket PF & I think fans got to see what I've been saying tonight. On D, he's not a team D player yet or a guy who will face up/shut down another big. What he will do is hustle back in transition, come from behind and swat some balls. You don't need to understand the game to do that & it's a big emotional boost for the crowd/team.

Will he play extensively next game? My guess would be "no". Elliot & Mo were both in foul trouble and it's rumored on GI that Oto is injured. Pitino had no one else with any height to throw out there. Overall, this was a very positive game for Buggs & a taste for fans of what his game is like. That said, anyone who watched this game would also have noted how far he still has to go to play major minutes consistently.
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+1
 



Costa Rican Gopher said:
Not trying to rain on the Buggs parade as I've always been one of his biggest supporters, but I also think we should temper out enthusiasm just a bit. I agree with Winnasota that the best thing to do was sit him for most of the second half and let him build on that first half because there was no way he was going to produce like that in the 2nd half. If you played him down the stretch and he blew the game then what?

I'm really excited that fans got to see what I've been saying here now for 2+ years regarding what kind of role Buggs would play. I've maintained that he's not a PF per se. That he's a 6'8" 3 point/jump shooter, not an under-the-basket PF & I think fans got to see what I've been saying tonight. On D, he's not a team D player yet or a guy who will face up/shut down another big. What he will do is hustle back in transition, come from behind and swat some balls. You don't need to understand the game to do that & it's a big emotional boost for the crowd/team.

Will he play extensively next game? My guess would be "no". Elliot & Mo were both in foul trouble and it's rumored on GI that Oto is injured. Pitino had no one else with any height to throw out there. Overall, this was a very positive game for Buggs & a taste for fans of what his game is like. That said, anyone who watched this game would also have noted how far he still has to go to play major minutes consistently.
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The realist in me agrees 110%, but I will wait for tomorrow to be that realist. He was one of several gophers that bought us a few more days of competitive spirit (as fans).


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howeda7 said:
Are you implying some off the court issue? Maybe, but Pitino doesn't seem like the type to hurt the team to send a message, and if he did something Mo-like we'd have heard about it, I imagine.
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not necessarily in the sense of how the term "off the court issue" is implied in your post, but yeah, maybe he doesn't hang out with the team, or maybe he doesn't do the little team building things on the court like helping a guy up from the floor or give a high five. Is he a "me" guy, is he struggling in classes more than the others? The announcers and Pitino have alluded to maturity issues, and I think some of those above examples could be twisted to mean "maturity"... Do i know anything? Absolutely not. But I think, like most of you, if this is what he was capable why did it take until now to see it? The simple answer is, its more complicated than meets the eye.
 

howeda7 said:
Clearly he won't play like he did tonight every game. But it's so obvious how much more talent he has than Oto, that it's almost criminal that he hasn't played.
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Could be that it took until now to hone his skills enough top coax this type of performance; Richey P Finally said "all right kid, your ready." Or maybe it was a mental thing and Buggs finally said "all right kid, your ready."
 



Costa Rican Gopher said:
Not trying to rain on the Buggs parade as I've always been one of his biggest supporters, but I also think we should temper out enthusiasm just a bit. I agree with Winnasota that the best thing to do was sit him for most of the second half and let him build on that first half because there was no way he was going to produce like that in the 2nd half. If you played him down the stretch and he blew the game then what?

I'm really excited that fans got to see what I've been saying here now for 2+ years regarding what kind of role Buggs would play. I've maintained that he's not a PF per se. That he's a 6'8" 3 point/jump shooter, not an under-the-basket PF & I think fans got to see what I've been saying tonight. On D, he's not a team D player yet or a guy who will face up/shut down another big. What he will do is hustle back in transition, come from behind and swat some balls. You don't need to understand the game to do that & it's a big emotional boost for the crowd/team.

Will he play extensively next game? My guess would be "no". Elliot & Mo were both in foul trouble and it's rumored on GI that Oto is injured. Pitino had no one else with any height to throw out there. Overall, this was a very positive game for Buggs & a taste for fans of what his game is like. That said, anyone who watched this game would also have noted how far he still has to go to play major minutes consistently.
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Anyone who watches any of our power forwards know how far they have to go. Will he lay an egg next game? Maybe. But I see our other PFs lay an egg pretty often. I'd have him on the court 10-15 minutes a game from here on. If nothing else he seems to energize the other players. Certainly tonight's 13 points was an anomaly- but he was also sticking his nose in there under the boards and ran the floor for a fast break bucket. It was Austin Hollins' night bu it was Buggs that initially changed the game.
 

he might not box out as well as a "real PF", but he can jump up and get the ball, and did that a couple times to tap some 50/50 balls out there.
 

I think Buggs ceiling is to be a Rodney Hood type of player. Athletic three who can shoot it but has his deficiences on the defensive end.
 

jamalo said:
Please elaborate. Not the major minutes part, but the "how far he still has to go."
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I'm not sure what CRG is talking about for sure but he did look lost on the defensive side at times.
 

Winasota Gopher said:
not necessarily in the sense of how the term "off the court issue" is implied in your post, but yeah, maybe he doesn't hang out with the team, or maybe he doesn't do the little team building things on the court like helping a guy up from the floor or give a high five. Is he a "me" guy, is he struggling in classes more than the others? The announcers and Pitino have alluded to maturity issues, and I think some of those above examples could be twisted to mean "maturity"... Do i know anything? Absolutely not. But I think, like most of you, if this is what he was capable why did it take until now to see it? The simple answer is, its more complicated than meets the eye.
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Given that he's always the one leading the dances before the game, etc. issues of not being a 'team' guy, etc. seem unlikely. Certainly, it could be some of those other things. Holding him back wouldn't be such a big deal if he was a guard or a center. But he plays a position that we've been crying out for help at all year.
 

GophersInIowa said:
I'm not sure what CRG is talking about for sure but he did look lost on the defensive side at times.
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I didn't see it; he created at least one steal and good pressure at other times. Not saying he's a panacea, but he should see the court before Oto going forward, IMO.
 

jamalo said:
Please elaborate. Not the major minutes part, but the "how far he still has to go."
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I'll let Ryan James's in-game blog at GI sum it up....

- "Iowa responds to the Buggs trey with one of there own and then they get a three point play moments later as Buggs and King struggled in rotation when the ball went middle…"

- "After a timeout Buggs entertains everybody by literally getting out of the way of an Iowa drive and then swatting a loose ball to nobody, but Minnesota gets the ball anyway for a Mathieu free throw, again on the break."

- "Charles Buggs 4 of 5 fg, 11 points and 3 rbs. He really has no idea what he is doing on either end but he knows enough to catch and shoot the ball when he's hot!"

- "This is the day of Charles Buggs. He swats a board wildly to nobody but it goes right to a teammate and the Gophers get a transition score. He doesn't box out his guy but the Iowa player gets the board and falls out of bounds. What Buggs can do is run the floor and he does that, catches, and scores an open floor lay-up…MN 70 IA 66…"

- "Gophers facing an Iowa zone and they went to the bigs Xing out from short corner to high post. Mo telling Buggs when to go. This time Charles catches and tries to shoot but gets swatted as I think he tried to pass out of it."
 

Costa Rican Gopher said:
I'll let Ryan James's in-game blog at GI sum it up....

- "Iowa responds to the Buggs trey with one of there own and then they get a three point play moments later as Buggs and King struggled in rotation when the ball went middle…"

- "After a timeout Buggs entertains everybody by literally getting out of the way of an Iowa drive and then swatting a loose ball to nobody, but Minnesota gets the ball anyway for a Mathieu free throw, again on the break."

- "Charles Buggs 4 of 5 fg, 11 points and 3 rbs. He really has no idea what he is doing on either end but he knows enough to catch and shoot the ball when he's hot!"

- "This is the day of Charles Buggs. He swats a board wildly to nobody but it goes right to a teammate and the Gophers get a transition score. He doesn't box out his guy but the Iowa player gets the board and falls out of bounds. What Buggs can do is run the floor and he does that, catches, and scores an open floor lay-up…MN 70 IA 66…"

- "Gophers facing an Iowa zone and they went to the bigs Xing out from short corner to high post. Mo telling Buggs when to go. This time Charles catches and tries to shoot but gets swatted as I think he tried to pass out of it."
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Agreed; we should go back to Oto when he is healthy ;-)
 

Costa Rican Gopher said:
I'll let Ryan James's in-game blog at GI sum it up....

- "Iowa responds to the Buggs trey with one of there own and then they get a three point play moments later as Buggs and King struggled in rotation when the ball went middle…"

- "After a timeout Buggs entertains everybody by literally getting out of the way of an Iowa drive and then swatting a loose ball to nobody, but Minnesota gets the ball anyway for a Mathieu free throw, again on the break."

- "Charles Buggs 4 of 5 fg, 11 points and 3 rbs. He really has no idea what he is doing on either end but he knows enough to catch and shoot the ball when he's hot!"

- "This is the day of Charles Buggs. He swats a board wildly to nobody but it goes right to a teammate and the Gophers get a transition score. He doesn't box out his guy but the Iowa player gets the board and falls out of bounds. What Buggs can do is run the floor and he does that, catches, and scores an open floor lay-up…MN 70 IA 66…"

- "Gophers facing an Iowa zone and they went to the bigs Xing out from short corner to high post. Mo telling Buggs when to go. This time Charles catches and tries to shoot but gets swatted as I think he tried to pass out of it."
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Agree with most of the analysis, except for the negative connotation with the word swat. On those plays, Ryan James saw blind swatting and luck, I saw length and vertical leaping result in something other than a clean rebound to the other team.

I'm also not overly inclined to listen to any individual, let alone a teacher (James), who believes high school athletes should not be required to take so many math and science classes if they want to play sports because it can cause academic qualification problems.


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Winasota Gopher said:
There is something there, behind the scenes, because I'm with you... After seeing his abilities, why not throw him out there its not like Oto is a physical specimen that throws his weight around down there....

I just like how the pick n roll has to be much more honest with him on the court as he has the pick n pop we are sorely lacking. Not to mention it pulls a big out of the middle of the court for DeAndre to operate.
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There's nothing behind the scenes. Buggs' basketball IQ is pretty low. Fortunately it is high enough to shoot when open.
 

You guys are all crazy if you think Buggs won't play next game. Oto had ZERO minutes tonight. Last game he had 7 minutes. He also has some "torn cartillage" in his knee which sounds like a partially torn meniscus and that is a bad injury for a basketball player. Pitino even admitted that Oto had not been playing well lately and that they "were going with Buggs regardless of Oto's injury" because of what he's done in practice.

If Buggs is not a team defender, I'd like to know why. He was constantly disrupting the passing lanes and getting tips on the ball. He did not give up any easy buckets and seemed to do a solid job on screens.

Regarding that play where he "swatted the lose ball to no body" ... he tried to tip it to Mathieu because he couldn't get to it. And "swatting a rebound" ... he was actually hitting the offensive glass, unlike anyone else.

I honestly don't see how King is a better "team defender" or really better at anything. King had two turnover (almost 3) because he carelessly threw the ball into the post when the post player wasn't even close to open. I don't see Buggs making foolish mistakes like that, much less over and over again like King and Oto have done so many times this year.
 

MadtownGopher said:
You guys are all crazy if you think Buggs won't play next game. Oto had ZERO minutes tonight. Last game he had 7 minutes. He also has some "torn cartillage" in his knee which sounds like a partially torn meniscus and that is a bad injury for a basketball player. Pitino even admitted that Oto had not been playing well lately and that they "were going with Buggs regardless of Oto's injury" because of what he's done in practice.

If Buggs is not a team defender, I'd like to know why. He was constantly disrupting the passing lanes and getting tips on the ball. He did not give up any easy buckets and seemed to do a solid job on screens.

Regarding that play where he "swatted the lose ball to no body" ... he tried to tip it to Mathieu because he couldn't get to it. And "swatting a rebound" ... he was actually hitting the offensive glass, unlike anyone else.

I honestly don't see how King is a better "team defender" or really better at anything. King had two turnover (almost 3) because he carelessly threw the ball into the post when the post player wasn't even close to open. I don't see Buggs making foolish mistakes like that, much less over and over again like King and Oto have done so many times this year.
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Agreed, particularly about the lack of foolish mistakes


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Costa Rican Gopher said:
I'll let Ryan James's in-game blog at GI sum it up....

- "Iowa responds to the Buggs trey with one of there own and then they get a three point play moments later as Buggs and King struggled in rotation when the ball went middle…"

- "After a timeout Buggs entertains everybody by literally getting out of the way of an Iowa drive and then swatting a loose ball to nobody, but Minnesota gets the ball anyway for a Mathieu free throw, again on the break."

- "Charles Buggs 4 of 5 fg, 11 points and 3 rbs. He really has no idea what he is doing on either end but he knows enough to catch and shoot the ball when he's hot!"

- "This is the day of Charles Buggs. He swats a board wildly to nobody but it goes right to a teammate and the Gophers get a transition score. He doesn't box out his guy but the Iowa player gets the board and falls out of bounds. What Buggs can do is run the floor and he does that, catches, and scores an open floor lay-up…MN 70 IA 66…"

- "Gophers facing an Iowa zone and they went to the bigs Xing out from short corner to high post. Mo telling Buggs when to go. This time Charles catches and tries to shoot but gets swatted as I think he tried to pass out of it."
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Yes, but imagine the write up that summarizes King's comedy of errors tonight.
 

jamalo said:
Agreed; we should go back to Oto when he is healthy ;-)
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My position has always been that the coaches know who gives us the best chance to win, not posters on GH. If Oto is playing better than Buggs & Pitino plays him again I will absolutely support that. That said, Oto is not playing like he was earlier in the season, Buggs is obviously more talented physically & it's always seemed like a matter of time for Buggs to finally figure it out. Is that time now, we'll see? It'll be a big positive if it is!
 

MadtownGopher said:
You guys are all crazy if you think Buggs won't play next game. Oto had ZERO minutes tonight. Last game he had 7 minutes. He also has some "torn cartillage" in his knee which sounds like a partially torn meniscus and that is a bad injury for a basketball player. Pitino even admitted that Oto had not been playing well lately and that they "were going with Buggs regardless of Oto's injury" because of what he's done in practice.

If Buggs is not a team defender, I'd like to know why. He was constantly disrupting the passing lanes and getting tips on the ball. He did not give up any easy buckets and seemed to do a solid job on screens.

Regarding that play where he "swatted the lose ball to no body" ... he tried to tip it to Mathieu because he couldn't get to it. And "swatting a rebound" ... he was actually hitting the offensive glass, unlike anyone else.

I honestly don't see how King is a better "team defender" or really better at anything. King had two turnover (almost 3) because he carelessly threw the ball into the post when the post player wasn't even close to open. I don't see Buggs making foolish mistakes like that, much less over and over again like King and Oto have done so many times this year.
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King drives me nuts- he has some offensive ability and does make some good plays but.... The best thing about Buggs tonight is that this gives the kid something to build on long term. This is the type of game that makes a kid believe in himself and continue to put the hours in to improve for next year. I was thrilled to see it- even though I am fully aware that there will be some major ups and downs. There's a reason he hasn't been playing but there's also a reason that he probably figures pretty big in the future. It looks like Pitino has wanted to bring him along slowly so he wouldn't screw up and kill his confidence. It was a good idea to keep on the bench for the finish- leaving him with the positive vibes and not take a chance on ruining Bugg's big night.
 

Costa Rican Gopher said:
My position has always been that the coaches know who gives us the best chance to win, not posters on GH. If Oto is playing better than Buggs & Pitino plays him again I will absolutely support that. That said, Oto is not playing like he was earlier in the season, Buggs is obviously more talented physically & it's always seemed like a matter of time for Buggs to finally figure it out. Is that time now, we'll see? It'll be a big positive if it is!
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You should read the post game notes. Oto is injured. Pitino doesn't know if he is playing poorly because of that or not, but you could tell he's kind of moved on from Oto at the moment.
 

bc2211 said:
Agree with most of the analysis, except for the negative connotation with the word swat. On those plays, Ryan James saw blind swatting and luck, I saw length and vertical leaping result in something other than a clean rebound to the other team.

I'm also not overly inclined to listen to any individual, let alone a teacher (James), who believes high school athletes should not be required to take so many math and science classes if they want to play sports because it can cause academic qualification problems.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Yeah, teachers are stupid. Of course James is also the basketball writer for GI, a High School basketball coach, studied under Clem Haskins for 4 years as Team Mgr (including the Final 4 run) at the U, is plugged into the AAU/Pulley scene as is generally acknowledged as the best basketball opinion in the Twin Cities.
 

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