How bad could Buggs be? ... 2/25/14 Update: Not bad at all!

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BleedGopher said:
I think Buggs would have to dramatically improve his ball handling to play the 3, but it sure would create some mismatches if he can.

One thing that I haven't seen brought up on Buggs was the amazing amount of court he was able to cover on his fast break lay-up last night. He had two monster strides as he glided in for that lay-up. I was afraid they were going to call a traveling (it wasn't) as you don't see many guys cover that amount of court like that. That was probably four steps worth of court coverage for Mathieu!

Go Gophers!!
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we used to do a drill where players were to take only 1 dribble from half court and score at the rim. it was basically impossible at first, but players learn to extend dribbles out all the way to the rim. Charles has the length to really stretch out and that lay in he had was very nice.

personally, I think Charles is primarily a face up player on the offensive end. he is similar to a Durant, Quincy Miller (Baylor/Nuggets), etc, but needs to be able to rebound and defend with PF and 4's in the BiG. I feel that strength and ability to bang inside are what he has needed to improve in order to play additional minutes.

offensively though - Charles has always displayed the type of abilities he showed last night. he did it the first practice we ever saw him at in 2010, and I literally emailed something like 100 coaches the following week. he did it in the prep title game against McGary and that outstanding Brewster team in 2012.

I hope we get to see Charles play additional minutes, but I also feel that it is wise to tap the brakes re: expectations and simply enjoy last night. I almost expect nothing else like that from him. however, if he did it again it would not surprise me one bit...if that makes sense.

I really appreciate the positive attitude he has displayed while biding his time. he has always seemed to be supportive even when not playing minutes. that is a rare quality among high major basketball players.
 

Jmmy Chitwood said:
we used to do a drill where players were to take only 1 dribble from half court and score at the rim. it was basically impossible at first, but players learn to extend dribbles out all the way to the rim. Charles has the length to really stretch out an that lay in he had was very nice.

personally, I think Charles is primarily a face up player on the offensive end. he is similar to a Durant, Quincy Miller (Baylor/Nuggets), etc, but needs to be able to rebound and defend with PF and 4's in the BiG. I feel that strength and ability to bang inside are what he has needed to improve in order to play additional minutes.

offensively though - Charles has always displayed the type of abilities he showed last night. he did it the first practice we ever saw him at in 2010, and I literally emailed something like 100 coaches the following week. he did it in the prep title game against McGary and that outstanding Brewster team in 2012.

I hope we get to see Charles play additional minutes, but I also feel that it is wise to tap the brakes re: expectations and simply enjoy last night. I almost expect nothing else like that from him. however, if he did it again it would not surprise me one bit...if that makes sense.

I really appreciate the positive attitude he has displayed while biding his time. he has always seemed to be supportive even when not playing minutes. that is a rare quality among high major basketball players.
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Chit! Jimmy, that sounds like a heck of a drill!
 

the guy who was the head coach played at Bucknell and they used it there. I have also heard that Drew uses it at Baylor from those who observe his practices.
 

I know the general thought on Buggs here is that he has a low basketball IQ- doesn’t know where to go on offense and on defence. You could kind of see it- after made Gopher baskets, he would kind of look for guidance from Mo or whomever. But, if you ask me, a lot of the other Gophers are not too bright. Witness Elliot’s turnovers last night. Why don't we talk about his low basketball IQ? Huge mistakes for a 4 year player.

Iowa was probably a good match-up for Buggs- they really run and that probably suits his game. I still think he should have been playing 10-15 minutes in the weaker non-conference games. Playing is the best way to teach.
 

Buggs

Great thoughts Winniepegopher.
I cannot believe Buggs, in his only significant minutes, is getting grief for not knowing his exact spot on the floor as a freshmen? His length was great on defense. Are we looking for excuses to why Pitino hasn't played him more?

He looks to be as tall as MO, whether that is 6'9" or 6'10" with his reach that is huge. He seems to be a great stretch "4" even though he might not be 200 lbs. Not sure why we think he needs to be a 3? Most 3's are of the 6'5" variety nowadays.

Buggs deserves floor time after this. I am not sold that his mental misque's make him less of an option than what we have at the 4 as his physical attributes so far have more than made up for them.

John Belein and the rest of the big ten hope all the doubters are right and we keep Buggs on the bench, because he might make a mistake.

I am dumbfounded.
Buggs should play again, he may never shoot like that this year but i will take some great plays with some freshmen mistakes. Is he the second comming of Durant, no, but he has untapped potential and let's see it! Nobody is saying he needs to be on the floor in crunch time or anyting?
 


Richard Pitino: "No one shoots more air-balls than Buggs".........about five minutes ago.
 

Just listening to Pitino on Mackey and Judd - this is all paraphrased:

Spoke about how they wanted to get Buggs up to 215 pounds, he was at 205 for awhile. Says it is impossible to play the 4 in the Big Ten at 205.

No one shoots more air balls than Buggs. He gets really down on himself when he does, that is where he needs to improve his maturity.

I missed a little bit at the beginning, but tuned in about the time they were talking about coaches meetings and strategizing about playing Buggs. Please correct me if Im wrong, but it sounded to me like they wanted to play him at Ohio State, but the coaches met and decided they did not want to introduce him in that type of environment and would rather introduce him on home court.
 

kramer said:
Just listening to Pitino on Mackey and Judd - this is all paraphrased:

Spoke about how they wanted to get Buggs up to 215 pounds, he was at 205 for awhile. Says it is impossible to play the 4 in the Big Ten at 205.

No one shoots more air balls than Buggs. He gets really down on himself when he does, that is where he needs to improve his maturity.

I missed a little bit at the beginning, but tuned in about the time they were talking about coaches meetings and strategizing about playing Buggs. Please correct me if Im wrong, but it sounded to me like they wanted to play him at Ohio State, but the coaches met and decided they did not want to introduce him in that type of environment and would rather introduce him on home court.
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Yes, that's what he said. Also said Oto hasn't been playing real well and his knee is hurting.

Coach also said Buggs will come back(after an air-ball) and make a really difficult shot. He needs to mature on the court and understand the philosophy of what we are trying to do.
 




Costa Rican Gopher said:
So when a player develops it's Pitino's coaching and if a player doesn't develop it's the player? Makes it a lot easier to be a coach that way I bet?
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I don't know, I haven't attributed any development (other than Mo's weight loss) to Pitino specifically. I have been consistent in my criticism of Oto though. Apart from the Wisconsin game he has shown a lack of effort, court awareness, and overall lack of talent. I'm not sure what a coach could do to develop him at this point in his career. He is already 24 years old and still looks like a freshman.
 

MadtownGopher said:
Because King has been playing so well?:rolleyes:

Not saying Buggs will start, but he is going to be a sparkplug off the bench for us and average more minutes than Oto. So he'll be our primary back up at PF and I could even see him getting some minutes at the 3 occasionally like he did in the first half tonight.
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I'm no Joey King fan. I think he's a role player on a good team forced into extensive minutes on ours. Oto has a knee injury so there's no doubt Buggs will play more than him next game. All I'm saying is that despite my 2+ years to talking up Buggs' potential, he's still not there yet. He showed flashes of what he can do & that's exciting but there were a lot of mistakes to be corrected that people seem to want to overlook. He's athletic as heck, can shoot, but literally doesn't know where to be on the court still, who to box out, isn't very physical on defense, etc. All the little things are still extremely raw. If he's not shooting lights out, he's a net negative at this time. You need to separate your emotions from this because while you've jumped on the bandwagon lately I've been promoting Buggs since he was in High School. It's not that I don't like his potential. I never said he wouldn't play next game, that was another example of your emotions getting away from you. I don't love Joey King as you seem to imply in a couple posts. I don't think Oto is All-B1G either. I just think there's a lot of holes in Buggs' game still and fans like you are seeing only what they want to see at this time.
 

Costa Rican Gopher said:
I'm no Joey King fan. I think he's a role player on a good team forced into extensive minutes on ours. Oto has a knee injury so there's no doubt Buggs will play more than him next game. All I'm saying is that despite my 2+ years to talking up Buggs' potential, he's still not there yet. He showed flashes of what he can do & that's exciting but there were a lot of mistakes to be corrected that people seem to want to overlook. He's athletic as heck, can shoot, but literally doesn't know where to be on the court still, who to box out, isn't very physical on defense, etc. All the little things are still extremely raw. If he's not shooting lights out, he's a net negative at this time. You need to separate your emotions from this because while you've jumped on the bandwagon lately I've been promoting Buggs since he was in High School. It's not that I don't like his potential. I never said he wouldn't play next game, that was another example of your emotions getting away from you. I don't love Joey King as you seem to imply in a couple posts. I don't think Oto is All-B1G either. I just think there's a lot of holes in Buggs' game still and fans like you are seeing only what they want to see at this time.
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Talk to Bleed, I've been a Buggs fan since the beginning. Also, my argument is that King makes just as many mistakes as Buggs (if not more) and isn't as advanced in the mental part of the game as you are leading us to believe. Just look at the number of mistakes he makes more than once in a single game. For example, I pointed out he had two turnovers by carelessly throwing the ball into the post when the post player wasn't even close to being open. He almost did it a third time late in the game. And you said Buggs wouldn't play extensively next game. To me that means he will get maybe a couple of minutes. So I guess it comes down to what you meant by extensively.
 

MadtownGopher said:
Talk to Bleed, I've been a Buggs fan since the beginning. Also, my argument is that King makes just as many mistakes as Buggs (if not more) and isn't as advanced in the mental part of the game as you are leading us to believe. Just look at the number of mistakes he makes more than once in a single game. For example, I pointed out he had two turnovers by carelessly throwing the ball into the post when the post player wasn't even close to being open. He almost did it a third time late in the game. And you said Buggs wouldn't play extensively next game. To me that means he will get maybe a couple of minutes. So I guess it comes down to what you meant by extensively.
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Funny, when everyone was bashing the Buggs signing I don't remember you defending him at all. Very few of us took the time to find/watch the little film of him available. It was very much like last nights game actually. He drained a bunch of three's and a couple mid range jumpers all in the first half and then never left the bench in the second half. Regardless, you could see the potential, he just wasn't skilled enough to play major minutes even at Prep school. last year people criticized Tubby for not playing Buggs ahead of Oto. They said he didn't know how to coach. This year Pitino played both Oto & King ahead of Buggs, I guess he didn't know how to coach either? Guys like Ryan James who're coaches and cover basketball locally for a living see the holes in his game. Pretty much all the posters at GI are in consensus that they love Buggs' potential but that he's still the weak link when on the court. You, on the other hand don't see it at all & I'm not going to convince you. Back to Joey King? Please point out one post of mine where I promoted Joey King? That's another thing you just made up because you're emotional about this and not thinking clearly. I think Joey King's a train-wreck. Listen you made something up that wasn't true when you quoted me as saying Buggs wouldn't play at all next game. Your emotions got the best of you, just admit it and move on. Now you're trying to nitpick and get into semantics. We all make mistakes.


ex·ten·sive
[ik-sten-siv] Show IPA
adjective
1. of great extent; wide; broad: an extensive area.
2. covering or extending over a great area: extensive travels.
3. far-reaching; comprehensive; thorough: extensive knowledge.
4. lengthy: an extensive journey.
5. great in amount, number, or degree: an extensive fortune; extensive political influence.
 



Can't wait for the next round of this epic battle. Hopefully the same thing can be said again in twice as many words.
 

Costa Rican Gopher said:
ex·ten·sive
[ik-sten-siv] Show IPA
adjective
1. of great extent; wide; broad: an extensive area.
2. covering or extending over a great area: extensive travels.
3. far-reaching; comprehensive; thorough: extensive knowledge.
4. lengthy: an extensive journey.
5. great in amount, number, or degree: an extensive fortune; extensive political influence.
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So how are we supposed to know how many minutes you meant by extensive. I would say Buggs played an extensive role last night. I think most would agree (especially considering he was in the MVP poll). So your opinion seemed to intimate that he will not be seeing minutes like he did last night. Which is fine, I was just surprised considering the severity of Oto's injury and King's up and down play.

I was a fan of Buggs ever since we signed him. I thought he had an excellent midrange jumper as a tall and lanky SF/PF and he reminded me of a smaller Juan Johnson, who had been tearing up the Big Ten at that time. Hard not to get excited for a recruit like that. I never questioned Tubby playing him last year, I actually thought the redshirt was the right move because he didn't have the size to play the 4 (or 5) and probably didn't have the ball handling to play the 3. We also didn't need him last year with Trevor, Rodney, and Austin taking most of the time at the 3-5.
 

I'm done discussing this though. We'll just have to see how big of a role Buggs has in the next few games. I think it will be extensive.
 

Costa Rican Gopher said:
So when a player develops it's Pitino's coaching and if a player doesn't develop it's the player? Makes it a lot easier to be a coach that way I bet?
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No- it's not quite that way. If you fail to develop Oto- it's because he has a low upside. No fault to Oto - I'll bet he works his fanny off. If you fail to develop Rodney Williams- that's more on the coach IMO- especially if you recruited him, because he has so much upside. Case in point is Mo Walker. One coach has been able to reach him and improve him- the other was not.
 

MadtownGopher said:
I'm done discussing this though. We'll just have to see how big of a role Buggs has in the next few games. I think it will be extensive.
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Could be. Furthermore, Pitino isn't about to tip his hand prior to the Michigan game. Keep 'em guessing.
 


Richard said:
I'm confused. So you think Joey King is a train-wreck and don't think Buggs should be play many minutes due to the numerous "holes" in his game? Does that mean you think Oto should play like 35 minutes when healthy?
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I think he's saying what we all know. The 4 spot is a train wreck on this team, I think Buggs is a three with a four's body, suppose he could play both. I think we will see him somewhere between 10-15 minutes a game from here on out, depending on the foul situation. Anything more means there was probably an injury. Just my opinion
 


MadtownGopher said:
Yeah I definitely think it's at the 3, unless Martin for whatever reason can't contribute for us next year. Then Pitino may be tempted to play him at the 4. That is one thing that both Costa Rican Gopher and myself have agreed on for a while now. Front court 2-deeps could be EE/Mo, Buggs/Morris, Martin/King.
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Ok I need to exhale...whheeeesssshhhh.....I like you and think you're a good poster. One of my favorites in fact. I respect that you hold your ground & at the end of the day we're on the same side. We're both Gopher hoops fans & we're both Buggs fans. Hug it out now.

Buggs is going to prove me right a lot. He's going to drive you, me and everyone else f'ing nuts a lot. I'm not going to gloat every time he screws up and I hope you won't thump your chest every time he scores a basket as he matures and gets better because that all that's gonna do is screw up the fun of watching the Gophers and posting on GH for both of us.
 

Costa Rican Gopher said:
Funny, when everyone was bashing the Buggs signing I don't remember you defending him at all. Very few of us took the time to find/watch the little film of him available. It was very much like last nights game actually. He drained a bunch of three's and a couple mid range jumpers all in the first half and then never left the bench in the second half. Regardless, you could see the potential, he just wasn't skilled enough to play major minutes even at Prep school. last year people criticized Tubby for not playing Buggs ahead of Oto. They said he didn't know how to coach. This year Pitino played both Oto & King ahead of Buggs, I guess he didn't know how to coach either? Guys like Ryan James who're coaches and cover basketball locally for a living see the holes in his game. Pretty much all the posters at GI are in consensus that they love Buggs' potential but that he's still the weak link when on the court. You, on the other hand don't see it at all & I'm not going to convince you. Back to Joey King? Please point out one post of mine where I promoted Joey King? That's another thing you just made up because you're emotional about this and not thinking clearly. I think Joey King's a train-wreck. Listen you made something up that wasn't true when you quoted me as saying Buggs wouldn't play at all next game. Your emotions got the best of you, just admit it and move on. Now you're trying to nitpick and get into semantics. We all make mistakes.


ex·ten·sive
[ik-sten-siv] Show IPA
adjective
1. of great extent; wide; broad: an extensive area.
2. covering or extending over a great area: extensive travels.
3. far-reaching; comprehensive; thorough: extensive knowledge.
4. lengthy: an extensive journey.
5. great in amount, number, or degree: an extensive fortune; extensive political influence.
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Madtown was all over CB and I remember him talking him up a lot...just like he does with Martin.
 

Costa Rican Gopher said:
Ok I need to exhale...whheeeesssshhhh.....I like you and think you're a good poster. One of my favorites in fact. I respect that you hold your ground & at the end of the day we're on the same side. We're both Gopher hoops fans & we're both Buggs fans. Hug it out now.

Buggs is going to prove me right a lot. He's going to drive you, me and everyone else f'ing nuts a lot. I'm not going to gloat every time he screws up and I hope you won't thump your chest every time he scores a basket as he matures and gets better because that all that's gonna do is screw up the fun of watching the Gophers and posting on GH for both of us.
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Good post CRG. This might make you crazy, but Buggs totally reminds me of a freshman named Willie Burton who was forced into big minutes early on a team with zero talent. Burton had all that raw ability but was skinny and lack some of the fundamentals. He had that same kind of bounce that Buggs had. They even look alike. I really like Buggs and have been rooting for him to emerge since the intra-squad game a year ago when he got on fire just like in the Iowa game. You are exactly right though- he's going to have ups and downs for a good while and there will be games where posters will say he should never be on the floor while there will be other games where people will think he should start. My guess is that Pitino will throw him in for a couple minutes in the first half of games and see how it goes. If it goes well he plays more, if not, back to the pine. Next year he could be a big factor.
 

MadtownGopher said:
Yeah I definitely think it's at the 3, unless Martin for whatever reason can't contribute for us next year. Then Pitino may be tempted to play him at the 4. That is one thing that both Costa Rican Gopher and myself have agreed on for a while now. Front court 2-deeps could be EE/Mo, Buggs/Morris, Martin/King.
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I was thinking about this and I don't think it is out of the question for him to see time at both the 3 and 4 going forward. We know he has an outside shot so he can play the 3 but if he puts some weight on and there is foul trouble he could possibly spend some time at the 4 spot. I hope he puts a ton of work in the off season improving his post play and putting weight on and can still shoot well enough to play the 3 spot. A player like that could really make a big difference for a team and cause some frustrating match up problems for other teams.
 

per Shama: U Teammates High on Buggs’ Potential

The performance that had the crowd roaring with approval didn’t surprise junior guard Andre Hollins, Minnesota’s leading scorer this season. “He’s athletic as hell,” Hollins said. “There’s just tons of upside.”

“Buggs is a talented player,” senior guard Malik Smith said. “One of the most talented players in the league if he just gets his mind right. Gets confident, he will be good for a long time.”

http://shamasportsheadliners.com/

Go Gophers!!
 

BleedGopher said:
per Shama: U Teammates High on Buggs’ Potential

The performance that had the crowd roaring with approval didn’t surprise junior guard Andre Hollins, Minnesota’s leading scorer this season. “He’s athletic as hell,” Hollins said. “There’s just tons of upside.”

“Buggs is a talented player,” senior guard Malik Smith said. “One of the most talented players in the league if he just gets his mind right. Gets confident, he will be good for a long time.”

http://shamasportsheadliners.com/

Go Gophers!!
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We keep hearing that comment. What does it really mean?
 


station19 said:
We keep hearing that comment. What does it really mean?
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Pitino alluded to the fact that he gets down no himself. I can see him being completely disengaged if he's shooting poorly or something of that nature. Gets beat on the defensive end and hangs his head. Doesn't respond to coaches critiques.


All of those would also qualify to the immature comments as well???
 


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