How bad could Buggs be? ... 2/25/14 Update: Not bad at all!

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HOOP DREAMS said:
I don't think it's hate... and to use that word in because people are disappointed about the depth at our weakest position is ridiculous.

"Haters gonna hate" -Dumbass #1
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In Oto's case I think "hate" might actually be the right word.
 

I hope some of YOU guys realize coach Pitino has told the players to not pay attention to you.
 

Costa Rican Gopher said:
I don't know about "ripping" Pitino but someone suggested earlier in this thread that the coaching staff is human and makes mistakes as the reason why Oto & King play ahead of Buggs. :rolleyes:
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Are you referring to me? I've never questioned the staff. Closest I've come to that is saying something similar "I'd like to see Buggs get more minutes to see what he can do." I trust the staff, obviously, though.

I also think it's well documented that I am one of Pitino's biggest fans on this board.
 

I just went back and watched Buggs for his two minute stretch against Indiana mostly because I don't want to do work right now. He looks like he's mostly in the right place. When they run a pick and roll he floats to the opposite block like he should, then starts heading to the high post when they dump it in before crashing the offensive boards when Eliason looks like he's making a move. Defensively he started down towards the offensive end before the Gophers secured the rebound, and then in a potential fast break situation he kind of floated in no man's land rather than running towards the rim for a possible pass or even spotting up on the wing. You can see as they go to TV timeout Ben Johnson goes right up to talk to him and I'm betting it's because he didn't hit the defensive glass.

He stayed in after the TV timeout and had two touches in the high post against the Indiana zone, once kicking it out to the wing on the opposite side of the floor and the other time using a nice fake to find a wide open McNeil for a three. Defensively he looked like he was in position and had a solid box out on the one shot Indiana got up.

I dunno. If anything he might be too tentative (not crashing the glass hard, passing up an open 3 in the corner at one point), but he didn't look lost in that extremely tiny sample size. I wouldn't mind seeing him get a few more minutes just to kind of see what's going on. Maybe tonight against the crappy Illini will be his shot.
 

Down with Goldy said:
I just went back and watched Buggs for his two minute stretch against Indiana mostly because I don't want to do work right now. He looks like he's mostly in the right place. When they run a pick and roll he floats to the opposite block like he should, then starts heading to the high post when they dump it in before crashing the offensive boards when Eliason looks like he's making a move. Defensively he started down towards the offensive end before the Gophers secured the rebound, and then in a potential fast break situation he kind of floated in no man's land rather than running towards the rim for a possible pass or even spotting up on the wing. You can see as they go to TV timeout Ben Johnson goes right up to talk to him and I'm betting it's because he didn't hit the defensive glass.

He stayed in after the TV timeout and had two touches in the high post against the Indiana zone, once kicking it out to the wing on the opposite side of the floor and the other time using a nice fake to find a wide open McNeil for a three. Defensively he looked like he was in position and had a solid box out on the one shot Indiana got up.

I dunno. If anything he might be too tentative (not crashing the glass hard, passing up an open 3 in the corner at one point), but he didn't look lost in that extremely tiny sample size. I wouldn't mind seeing him get a few more minutes just to kind of see what's going on. Maybe tonight against the crappy Illini will be his shot.
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This is how I remember his performance as well. I had the same feeling after watching him play about 4 minutes against FSU. You bring up a good point about him being tentative, I could see that being an issue for the coaching staff (though Oto is pretty damn tentative at times too). Like you said maybe we'll see him some more tonight. If nothing else it would be nice if he could get 2-4 minutes at the end of the first half every game to ensure our bigs don't get in foul trouble by picking up dumb fouls going into the half.
 


Down with Goldy said:
I just went back and watched Buggs for his two minute stretch against Indiana mostly because I don't want to do work right now. He looks like he's mostly in the right place. When they run a pick and roll he floats to the opposite block like he should, then starts heading to the high post when they dump it in before crashing the offensive boards when Eliason looks like he's making a move. Defensively he started down towards the offensive end before the Gophers secured the rebound, and then in a potential fast break situation he kind of floated in no man's land rather than running towards the rim for a possible pass or even spotting up on the wing. You can see as they go to TV timeout Ben Johnson goes right up to talk to him and I'm betting it's because he didn't hit the defensive glass.

He stayed in after the TV timeout and had two touches in the high post against the Indiana zone, once kicking it out to the wing on the opposite side of the floor and the other time using a nice fake to find a wide open McNeil for a three. Defensively he looked like he was in position and had a solid box out on the one shot Indiana got up.

I dunno. If anything he might be too tentative (not crashing the glass hard, passing up an open 3 in the corner at one point), but he didn't look lost in that extremely tiny sample size. I wouldn't mind seeing him get a few more minutes just to kind of see what's going on. Maybe tonight against the crappy Illini will be his shot.
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Not trying to hate on King/Oto.. But did you get a chance to compare Buggs to those guys as far as how he handled playing in the middle of the two/three zone on offense? I remember that he seemed to move the ball effectively before the defense could swarm him. I remember Oto/King getting trapped more often than not.


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Are we seriously drawing conclusions based upon a two minute sample size? Buggs has huge holes in his game. That's why he doesn't touch the floor. The upside is that McNeil was given the same treatment at the start of the year, and look at him now. When Charles fills those holes, he will play. He hasn't yet.
 

GopherJake said:
Are we seriously drawing conclusions based upon a two minute sample size? Buggs has huge holes in his game. That's why he doesn't touch the floor. The upside is that McNeil was given the same treatment at the start of the year, and look at him now. When Charles fills those holes, he will play. He hasn't yet.
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Nobody is drawing conclusions from anything. This is a discussion board. If you want to sit in silence, I can direct you to your nearest prison. Good Lord.
 

GopherJake said:
Are we seriously drawing conclusions based upon a two minute sample size? Buggs has huge holes in his game. That's why he doesn't touch the floor. The upside is that McNeil was given the same treatment at the start of the year, and look at him now. When Charles fills those holes, he will play. He hasn't yet.
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Really only one conclusion to draw....and that is from everything but the two minutes that he has touched the floor....the other x hundred minutes of Gopher basketball this year. Despite playing the weakest position on our team, he doesn't see the floor. As you said.....he still has huge holes in his game. That is really the only conclusion to draw at this point.
 



afurry91 said:
Nobody is drawing conclusions from anything. This is a discussion board. If you want to sit in silence, I can direct you to your nearest prison. Good Lord.
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fuzzy, could the discussion then please include comments that display anything but stupidity?

station19's comment in post #122 sums it up.
 

Dr.Don said:
fuzzy, could the discussion then please include comments that display anything but stupidity?

station19's comment in post #122 sums it up.
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We don't care if Pitino listens to us. We don't want his job. He is doing a fine one. It doesn't mean we can't explore possibilities.

I'm sure Pitino has pondered possibilities to get more out of the 4 position. Why can't we?
 

GopherJake said:
Are we seriously drawing conclusions based upon a two minute sample size? Buggs has huge holes in his game. That's why he doesn't touch the floor. The upside is that McNeil was given the same treatment at the start of the year, and look at him now. When Charles fills those holes, he will play. He hasn't yet.
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Hey, the Zapruder film was only about half a minute long and look at how much that revealed. 2 minutes of rare film of Charles on the court is a veritable treasure trove of information as to why he should be playing. Much more valuable than a coach who seems to know the game and has watched the guy for God knows how many minutes in practice.
 

Mulligan said:
Hey, the Zapruder film was only about half a minute long and look at how much that revealed. 2 minutes of rare film of Charles on the court is a veritable treasure trove of information as to why he should be playing. Much more valuable than a coach who seems to know the game and has watched the guy for God knows how many minutes in practice.
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LOL another person that hasn't been following this thread. We are discussing why Buggs doesn't play, ie what he needs to do to get on the court. No one is questioning Pitino.
 



MadtownGopher said:
LOL another person that hasn't been following this thread. We are discussing why Buggs doesn't play, ie what he needs to do to get on the court. No one is questioning Pitino.
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Well if he can't even reach the elevated floor how can he be a high jumper?
 


Costa Rican Gopher said:
I don't know about "ripping" Pitino but someone suggested earlier in this thread that the coaching staff is human and makes mistakes as the reason why Oto & King play ahead of Buggs. :rolleyes:
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Exactly. Folks can knock my word choice all they want, but the fact of the matter is, we have a SEVEN page thread about how Charles Buggs, the guy who has averaged less than 4 minutes per game for the season and has double digit DNP – Coach’s Decision, is better than both Joey King and Oto Osenieks and should play more. I realize this is another case of “Backup QB Syndrome”, but it just gets tiring. The coaching staff is with these guys every single day, watches them practice and sees the work they put in. To suggest Pitino is just not playing Buggs for giggles is essentially what everyone is saying. That he is just so off his rocker he is deciding to lose intentionally by playing the “weaker” PF’s. The thread premise is essentially our two playing PF’s are so absolutely atrocious that either Buggs is somehow inconceivably more atrocious or Pitino is an awful judge of PF talent.

All of that said, I am not trying to write off Buggs. I really really like him as well and think he will be phenomenal for us down the road. Our PF spot has one guy at each class level. Plenty of time for each to develop and get better. I love seeing Buggs do well and I love his enthusiasm despite not playing often.
 


Mulligan said:
Hey, the Zapruder film was only about half a minute long and look at how much that revealed. 2 minutes of rare film of Charles on the court is a veritable treasure trove of information as to why he should be playing. Much more valuable than a coach who seems to know the game and has watched the guy for God knows how many minutes in practice.
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If this discussion wasn't so frequently interrupted with sarcasm and authoritarian statements, then it would be about the fan-based perception of the development of a young player at our weakest position.

My favorite part about cbb is watching players develop over a finite period of time. I'm intrigued by Buggs because of his potential. I don't think he should be playing more than he is right now and my opinions don't mean squat to the actual team (including this disclaimer so my post isn't interpreted as clamoring against pitinos roster management), but the court time he sees now gives is glimpses as to what he may be in years to come. But I guess us fans can't talk about what we see, Buggs is off limits until Pitino plays him more and he is therefore worthy of discussion.


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MadtownGopher said:
LOL another person that hasn't been following this thread. We are discussing why Buggs doesn't play, ie what he needs to do to get on the court. No one is questioning Pitino.
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Maybe that is what you are intending to discuss, but much of it is all of the things Buggs does better than King/Oto. Which everyone seems to know for a fact. The OP and title is “How Bad Could Buggs Be.” And has become more of a lets talk about how awful Oto/King are and how much better Buggs has to be than them and Pitino just can't seem to figure that out
 

scher215 said:
Exactly. Folks can knock my word choice all they want, but the fact of the matter is, we have a SEVEN page thread about how Charles Buggs, the guy who has averaged less than 4 minutes per game for the season and has double digit DNP – Coach’s Decision, is better than both Joey King and Oto Osenieks and should play more. I realize this is another case of “Backup QB Syndrome”, but it just gets tiring. The coaching staff is with these guys every single day, watches them practice and sees the work they put in. To suggest Pitino is just not playing Buggs for giggles is essentially what everyone is saying. That he is just so off his rocker he is deciding to lose intentionally by playing the “weaker” PF’s. The thread premise is essentially our two playing PF’s are so absolutely atrocious that either Buggs is somehow inconceivably more atrocious or Pitino is an awful judge of PF talent.

All of that said, I am not trying to write off Buggs. I really really like him as well and think he will be phenomenal for us down the road. Our PF spot has one guy at each class level. Plenty of time for each to develop and get better. I love seeing Buggs do well and I love his enthusiasm despite not playing often.
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Who is saying he's better than King or Oto? No one. But since those two are our weakest links, we are wondering what is going on with Buggs since we have only seen him for 21 minutes this year and he has potential. Some think it's because he needs to put on weight, some think it's because he's "lost", and others think it's because he is too tentative. We don't get to see him in practice every day, so we are left to speculate and ponder what it is that is keeping him from getting more playing time.
 

scher215 said:
Maybe that is what you are intending to discuss, but much of it is all of the things Buggs does better than King/Oto. Which everyone seems to know for a fact. The OP and title is “How Bad Could Buggs Be.” And has become more of a lets talk about how awful Oto/King are and how much better Buggs has to be than them and Pitino just can't seem to figure that out
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Who ever said Buggs does anything better than Oto or King? And who said it was a fact? Quit with the strawman arguments.
 

scher215 said:
Maybe that is what you are intending to discuss, but much of it is all of the things Buggs does better than King/Oto. Which everyone seems to know for a fact. The OP and title is “How Bad Could Buggs Be.” And has become more of a lets talk about how awful Oto/King are and how much better Buggs has to be than them and Pitino just can't seem to figure that out
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How else do you suggest judging a player's progress if it's off limits to compare him to the only two other players on the team that play the position. Keep in mind we have less than one year of pitino's system, so we can't compare his understanding of this system to any former players. Open to suggestions here.


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bc2211 said:
How else do you suggest judging a player's progress if it's off limits to compare him to the only two other players on the team that play the position. Keep in mind we have less than one year of pitino's system, so we can't compare his understanding of this system to any former players. Open to suggestions here.



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Not off limits, but what would you base any sort of comparison on? Sample size is too small.
 

afurry91 said:
We don't care if Pitino listens to us. We don't want his job. He is doing a fine one. It doesn't mean we can't explore possibilities.

I'm sure Pitino has pondered possibilities to get more out of the 4 position. Why can't we?[/QUOTE]

Because Coach Piitino is dealing with reality, with what he has. Some of you are dreaming of Utopia.
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I wasn't drawing any conclusions on anything. I decided to find the only 2 minutes of film with Buggs in the game I could find and watch him exclusively to see what I could see. That's all. No idea what all the rioting is about. Clearly he hasn't shown Pitino enough in practice to get meaningful minutes. My impression of him was he was a bit lost out there. After watching him in an extremely limited sample size, as acknowledged, he looks more tentative than lost, which isn't necessarily better. Hopefully the Gophers have a comfortable lead most of tonight and he can get a little bit of run.
 

Dr.Don said:
Because Coach Piitino is dealing with reality, with what he has. Some of you are dreaming of Utopia.
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Then you and I have a different understanding of the purpose of message boards. If I simply wanted facts, I'd go to a news source.
 

bc2211 said:
Not trying to hate on King/Oto.. But did you get a chance to compare Buggs to those guys as far as how he handled playing in the middle of the two/three zone on offense? I remember that he seemed to move the ball effectively before the defense could swarm him. I remember Oto/King getting trapped more often than not.


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He got the ball in the high post against the zone twice and did move it pretty well, including an assist. He clearly had no interest in scoring, however, which makes it easier to just move the ball and far easier to defend. Again, in a sample size of two.
 


golfing18now said:
Really only one conclusion to draw....and that is from everything but the two minutes that he has touched the floor....the other x hundred minutes of Gopher basketball this year. Despite playing the weakest position on our team, he doesn't see the floor. As you said.....he still has huge holes in his game. That is really the only conclusion to draw at this point.
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Seems to be the most logical line of thinking.
 

I think one thing that hasn't been brought up yet is that Pitino clearly sees Buggs as a SF not a PF. I do think going forward Buggs will see most (of whatever playing time that he gets) of his minutes at the 3 not the 4.
 

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