How bad could Buggs be? ... 2/25/14 Update: Not bad at all!

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bga1 said:
Good post CRG. This might make you crazy, but Buggs totally reminds me of a freshman named Willie Burton who was forced into big minutes early on a team with zero talent. Burton had all that raw ability but was skinny and lack some of the fundamentals. He had that same kind of bounce that Buggs had. They even look alike. I really like Buggs and have been rooting for him to emerge since the intra-squad game a year ago when he got on fire just like in the Iowa game. You are exactly right though- he's going to have ups and downs for a good while and there will be games where posters will say he should never be on the floor while there will be other games where people will think he should start. My guess is that Pitino will throw him in for a couple minutes in the first half of games and see how it goes. If it goes well he plays more, if not, back to the pine. Next year he could be a big factor.
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I see a little of what you see in Willie in terms of resemblance and energy, but Buggs is way behind where Willie was at in every other phase. I think, in time he'll be a very good player. Like you, I think the right thing to do is give him some minutes to develop and when he's hot, let him run. Hopefully that happens with more and more frequency, but I have no doubt that there will be games we'll wish we had a healthy Oto.
 


Costa Rican Gopher said:
I see a little of what you see in Willie in terms of resemblance and energy, but Buggs is way behind where Willie was at in every other phase. I think, in time he'll be a very good player. Like you, I think the right thing to do is give him some minutes to develop and when he's hot, let him run. Hopefully that happens with more and more frequency, but I have no doubt that there will be games we'll wish we had a healthy Oto.
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I agree. Buggs has played one meaningful game in three years since high school. Let's not get ahead of ourselves.
 

station19 said:
I agree. Buggs has played one meaningful game in three years since high school. Let's not get ahead of ourselves.
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that is not accurate. the prep league he played in was loaded with D1 talent. in just the prep title game that he had 18 points Brewster had TJ Warren, Mitch McGary, Jakarr Sampson, Semaj Christon, etc (not to mention the players on Hargrave). prep basketball is loaded on the east coast.

I do absolutely agree that every should be patient with Buggs. he likely will not have 1 game the rest of the season that goes like Iowa. I have no idea if he will even play tonight. but he played an entire year of meaningful basketball during his prep year, and he generally did well.
 

Jmmy Chitwood said:
that is not accurate. the prep league he played in was loaded with D1 talent. in just the prep title game that he had 18 points Brewster had TJ Warren, Mitch McGary, Jakarr Sampson, Semaj Christon, etc (not to mention the players on Hargrave). prep basketball is loaded on the east coast.

I do absolutely agree that every should be patient with Buggs. he likely will not have 1 game the rest of the season that goes like Iowa. I have no idea if he will even play tonight. but he played an entire year of meaningful basketball during his prep year, and he generally did well.
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Not trying to diminish his Prep career, but he was a reserve/bench player, not a starter on that talented team correct? As I recall his best game was the 18 pt performance against Brewster and he scored all those points in the 1st half and then didn't play a minute in the 2nd? My memory could be fuzzy, but It reminded me a bit of the Iowa performance actually.
 


Jmmy Chitwood said:
that is not accurate. the prep league he played in was loaded with D1 talent. in just the prep title game that he had 18 points Brewster had TJ Warren, Mitch McGary, Jakarr Sampson, Semaj Christon, etc (not to mention the players on Hargrave). prep basketball is loaded on the east coast.

I do absolutely agree that every should be patient with Buggs. he likely will not have 1 game the rest of the season that goes like Iowa. I have no idea if he will even play tonight. but he played an entire year of meaningful basketball during his prep year, and he generally did well.
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I consider a game against Iowa of the Big Ten a meaningful game.

I do not consider a game against something Brewster as a meaningful game.
 

station19 said:
I consider a game against Iowa of the Big Ten a meaningful game.

I do not consider a game against something Brewster as a meaningful game.
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Well, then you should have said one meaningful game since becoming eligible to play at a collegiate level this November instead of since high school.


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bc2211 said:
Well, then you should have said one meaningful game since becoming eligible to play at a collegiate level this November instead of since high school.


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Buggs has played one meaningful game in three years since high school. Let's not get ahead of ourselves.
 



I'll live with his mistakes, Buggs brings en entirely different element on defense and crashing the boards than Oto and Joey. His shooting stroke looks smooth as well. A couple head scratching plays tonight against Michigan but it's not like it doesn't happen with our other players.
 

Buggs deserves a chance to start at the 4. The other two aren't cutting it, and giving Buggs a chance to develop is the best for the team. Especially vs Penn State.
 

RolGnav said:
Buggs deserves a chance to start at the 4. The other two aren't cutting it, and giving Buggs a chance to develop is the best for the team. Especially vs Penn State.
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Mostly agree, but we NEED that win for the postseason. This is not a time to mess with a lineup to help with someone's development. That's what Non conference is for.


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bc2211 said:
Mostly agree, but we NEED that win for the postseason. This is not a time to mess with a lineup to help with someone's development. That's what Non conference is for.


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Agreed, I don't know why we'd continue to start King just to help out his development. ;)

Buggs should start because he is better than King.
 




station19 said:
Buggs has played one meaningful game in three years since high school. Let's not get ahead of ourselves.
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when we beat Isaiah Austin and a team full of D1 players it was very meaningful. When we coached in front of Tubby, Rick Barnes, Scott Drew, Mike Anderson, etc, etc, it was meaningful. we played 40 games and every one was meaningful...some more than others

those summer games and his prep year season were all meaningful games vs collegiate level talent, though they were not D1 games.

D1 games are yet another level, but please stop saying he hasnt played a meaningful game in 3 years.
 

gopherlaney said:
Start Buggs, he is playing better than King right now.
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I like Buggs and think his potential is through the roof but in reality he's had one good game as a Gopher. People did this same exact thing with Malik and Austin. Buggs will have his time with this team but right now he needs to continue to develop. No doubt he has the potential to be a great player for us down the road.
 

MadtownGopher said:
Agreed, I don't know why we'd continue to start King just to help out his development. ;)

Buggs should start because he is better than King.
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I'd like to see Buggs play 20 plus minutes and I think he is better than King. However, I think starting him might be a little risky. I'd rather Buggs stay under the radar a little more. Minutes, not starting, is what is important.
 

bga1 said:
I'd like to see Buggs play 20 plus minutes and I think he is better than King. However, I think starting him might be a little risky. I'd rather Buggs stay under the radar a little more. Minutes, not starting, is what is important.
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Can't argue with that! I will say, if Buggs is the better power forward in a particular game, why not have him in to close the game? Whoever plays better should get the opportunity to play more and finish the game.
 

King played 24 minutes at the 4 and Buggs played 16. Wouldn't mind seeing that reversed against Penn State.
 

Buggs got pulled for a reason, he missed a huge block out when we were down 2 when Robinson put back a missed outside shot. He has many brain farts.

Buggs also could have hustled and possibly disrupted the alley oop to Robinson when we were down 2 after Andre's stupid 3 miss and long rebound.

Those were some pivotal points in the game. I'm excited for his development but King is the more steady player right now. Buggs is a work in progress, with definite upside.
 

Winasota Gopher said:
Buggs got pulled for a reason, he missed a huge block out when we were down 2 when Robinson put back a missed outside shot. He has many brain farts.

Buggs also could have hustled and possibly disrupted the alley oop to Robinson when we were down 2 after Andre's stupid 3 miss and long rebound.

Those were some pivotal points in the game. I'm excited for his development but King is the more steady player right now. Buggs is a work in progress, with definite upside.
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absolutely correct. he missed the block out because he jumped out to cover another player, and he shouldve blocked out robinson. but, that was the only real mistake he made in that stretch. and he also hit a 3, had an offensive rebound, and stopped robinson on a drive and got the defensive rebound.

1st half he was a little lost, and he should have jumped to try to stop the alley oop.

both have their role at times.
 

Winasota Gopher said:
Buggs got pulled for a reason, he missed a huge block out when we were down 2 when Robinson put back a missed outside shot. He has many brain farts.

Buggs also could have hustled and possibly disrupted the alley oop to Robinson when we were down 2 after Andre's stupid 3 miss and long rebound.

Those were some pivotal points in the game. I'm excited for his development but King is the more steady player right now. Buggs is a work in progress, with definite upside.
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He's steady alright. Little aggressiveness, shooting terrible (right now at least), cannot rebound.

I'll take the guy who makes a couple mistakes, but who can actually make plays. It's tough to watch this team play when one of our five players has a non-existent stat line.
 

Winasota Gopher said:
Buggs got pulled for a reason, he missed a huge block out when we were down 2 when Robinson put back a missed outside shot. He has many brain farts.

Buggs also could have hustled and possibly disrupted the alley oop to Robinson when we were down 2 after Andre's stupid 3 miss and long rebound.

Those were some pivotal points in the game. I'm excited for his development but King is the more steady player right now. Buggs is a work in progress, with definite upside.
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Buggs isn't perfect. His feel for the game is pretty poor in my opinion and he definitely makes mental mistakes, but he also brings things to the table that King doesn't. King has scored in double figures once in conference play and that was in a triple overtime game in which he played 47 minutes. That would be fine if he was a good defender or rebounder, but he isn't. I don't mean to bring King down because I love his effort and it's unfair to put too high of expectations on him. I just think that we won't be missing a whole lot if he gets less playing time in favor of Buggs. Buggs brings more energy, seems like a better shooter, is better in transition, and can be more disruptive on defense. He also had an offensive rebound tonight that no one else on our team could have gotten because of his absurd length and athleticism. The positives outweigh the negatives. It's time to give Buggs more playing time than King until he proves that he doesn't deserve it.
 

GophersOnTheRise said:
Buggs isn't perfect. His feel for the game is pretty poor in my opinion and he definitely makes mental mistakes, but he also brings things to the table that King doesn't. King has scored in double figures once in conference play and that was in a triple overtime game in which he played 47 minutes. That would be fine if he was a good defender or rebounder, but he isn't. I don't mean to bring King down because I love his effort and it's unfair to put too high of expectations on him. I just think that we won't be missing a whole lot if he gets less playing time in favor of Buggs. Buggs brings more energy, seems like a better shooter, is better in transition, and can be more disruptive on defense. He also had an offensive rebound tonight that no one else on our team could have gotten because of his absurd length and athleticism. The positives outweigh the negatives. It's time to give Buggs more playing time than King until he proves that he doesn't deserve it.
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I don't want to point out buggs shortcomings to justify kings playing time. And I also don't want to act like king is flawless or deserving of the big ten minutes he's getting. I just think he is more reliable in that you know what you're getting with him. It's not nearly as flawed as some would make him out to be. I agree buggs has more upside and talent. But he makes too many mental errors to be trusted with the kind of minutes you are all calling for. I think it will continue to get better but as of today I agree with Pitinos pt assignments.
 

I don't care who starts, but I trust Buggs in the game at the end more than King. King's indecisveness with the ball at the top of the key absolutely kills our offensive flow. It doesn't help that he is not a threat on offense in any circumstance. Buggs is someone you have to at least pay attention to, both as an offensive threat and someone that can go up and get rebounds.

Start King, but play Buggs more and at the end of games. I wouldn't be surprised to see that happen against PSU if it comes down to the last few minutes (which hopefully it doesn't).
 

stocker08 said:
He's steady alright. Little aggressiveness, shooting terrible (right now at least), cannot rebound.

I'll take the guy who makes a couple mistakes, but who can actually make plays. It's tough to watch this team play when one of our five players has a non-existent stat line.
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The issue that I have with all the King bashing that is going on is I think the venom is pointed in the wrong direction. King was not recruited to be an above average big ten 4 this year. He was viewed by all of us as a bench player this year that may develop over his three year Gopher career. However, he was thrown into the fire due to a lack of other options and has now become the team's punching bag. The four was expected to be our biggest weakness this year and that is exactly what has transpired, but I would blame a few other things before I would blame King for that position's struggles.

1. Blame the NCAA for not allowing the Buckles transfer, which is precisely the type of player this teams sorely lacks
2. Blame the previous coaching regime for not recruiting or developing viable depth at that position
3. Blame the two players in front of King at the start of the year, Oto and Buggs, for not developing themselves into better options
4. Blame the current coaching regime for putting all their eggs in the Buckles basket and not signing another body to fill that void

Lastly, I would blame King, but not for lack of effort. He was put in a position that probably wasn't fair to him. Trying to live up to expectations that probably weren't realistic in year one.
 

No one is blaming anyone for anything. We are making observations as fans. At the moment Buggs seems to provide more than King. It's nobody's fault and quite frankly we are only fans so we could be way off base since we don't see practices and Pitino is light year's ahead of all of us. We all know King was brought in to be a reserve forward, but because Buckles couldn't get in and Oto being Oto, we were forced to give him more playing time than we would have liked. I think it is time to go with door number 3 since the first 2 haven't provided us much.
 

Winasota Gopher said:
I don't want to point out buggs shortcomings to justify kings playing time. And I also don't want to act like king is flawless or deserving of the big ten minutes he's getting. I just think he is more reliable in that you know what you're getting with him. It's not nearly as flawed as some would make him out to be. I agree buggs has more upside and talent. But he makes too many mental errors to be trusted with the kind of minutes you are all calling for. I think it will continue to get better but as of today I agree with Pitinos pt assignments.
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Everybody is watching Bugg's every move right now because he is interesting. Is he good, is he bad, what will he become? So everybody sees that he makes a mistake here, doesn't get the block out there and so on. Meanwhile, almost every time the other team scores somebody gets beat a little and when we don't score, often it could have been different. It's a game full of made plays and mistakes. Does Buggs make mistakes? Yep. And so does our whole team. On balance - I love seeing him get on the floor and it gives me a lot of hope going forward.
 

MadtownGopher said:
No one is blaming anyone for anything. We are making observations as fans. At the moment Buggs seems to provide more than King. It's nobody's fault and quite frankly we are only fans so we could be way off base since we don't see practices and Pitino is light year's ahead of all of us. We all know King was brought in to be a reserve forward, but because Buckles couldn't get in and Oto being Oto, we were forced to give him more playing time than we would have liked. I think it is time to go with door number 3 since the first 2 haven't provided us much.
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Maybe blame is a poor choice of words on my part. I'm just really reacting to the volume of complaints about King, particularly in the game day threads. It was Oto before him. I say pound away if you aren't getting good effort from a player or a guy doesn't live up to expectations. King falls under neither of those categories, in my opinion.
 

golfing18now said:
Maybe blame is a poor choice of words on my part. I'm just really reacting to the volume of complaints about King, particularly in the game day threads. It was Oto before him. I say pound away if you aren't getting good effort from a player or a guy doesn't live up to expectations. King falls under neither of those categories, in my opinion.
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I think everyone agrees with you about King. NO ONE expected him to be a good starting PF, but since he is better than our 4th year PF, he's forced in to a position that he wasn't ready for and probably never will be. He gives full effort and has become about as much as we could hope for. Starting next year he will be a valuable hustle/glue type guy off the bench. That doesn't mean Buggs shouldn't have an opportunity to steal some minutes from him though and really that's all people are saying.
 

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