Gophers guard Both Gach is expected to enter the transfer portal

[goldengophers]

I know it's not popular to say, but I wouldn't be at all surprised if Coyle wasn't also painted into the corner. I think there was pressure on Coyle that had nothing to do with basketball.

That's why I've said I would not be surprised to hear Coyle has left for another AD job in the next year.

 

[Gophers7633]

Honest question...are we even going to be able to fill all the roster spots at this point? I doubt there are many high school recruits out there left to be gotten. Sure the portal is filled with kids, but so far we've only been able to land kids from George Washington, William and Mary, New Hampshire, Lafayette, Charleston and some D2 school. I'd be worried about our outcome if the Gophers were in the Summit League, let alone the B1G.

At this point, it's looking like at least a 3/4 year rebuild. I'd liken it to what Nebraska was when Hoiberg took over. Heading into year 3, he has a top 25 recruiting class and is bringing in two former 4 star recruits from the Big East, and should be much improved. Is this a realistic scenario heading into year 3 for the Gophers? Let's be honest the first 2 years are going to be bad, even if we land like 3 of the MN recruits, you aren't going to be competitive relying on guys ranked 50-125 as FR. I'm not sold on Johnson being able to land the elite transfers, so I'm wondering if even year 3 is to much ahead of schedule?

I've been a Gophers fan for almost 25 years and this is the lowest I've felt as a fan. Even lower than the 15-16 season and the 06-07 season. It just looks like this is going to blow up big time.

 

[Gopher Teeth]

FWIW - Ben Johnson did not hire Ben Johnson to be the HC of the Gophers.

Mark Coyle hired Ben Johnson to be the HC of the Gophers.

I get a sense that Johnson is catching flak from people who are mad about the hiring decision. That is not Johnson's fault. he was offered a job and he said "yes."

If you think Johnson was the wrong choice, then direct your ire at the person who made the hiring decision.

that person's name is Mark Coyle.

Plenty of people on this board heaped scorn on Joel Maturi for hiring Brewster.

maybe Coyle deserves some scorn for this decision.

Me - I'm going to cut Johnson some slack until I see what the final roster looks like, and I see what his team looks like on the floor.

l don't think anyone is mad at BJ, I haven't seen that anywhere. People are mad Coyle and the "committee" or however the final decision was made. I like BJ, I would enjoy hanging out and talking to him, seems like a sharp guy, just not ready for a B1G HC job yet.

 

[howeda7]

I agree your scenario is far more likely, the problem is the fan base. Without that class selling season ticket holders and the like is going to be difficult at best. Coyle painted himself and first time coach in one crazy corner.

I fear attendance is going to be brutal next year.

 

[Gopher Teeth]

That's why I've said I would not be surprised to hear Coyle has left for another AD job in the next year.

I agree, I would bet this would happen, and soon. If he was forced then he has no other choice but to leave because he isn't being allowed to do his job, therefore why stay? I wouldn't stay in a job where I am being overruled, but then held responsible for the outcome either directly or from a resume perspective.

 

[ecoperson]

I wouldn't expect it.

Ben Johnson will have to make the NCAA tournament with a roster full of nobodies, 3-star type players and fringe power 5 guys before any top 150 kids decide to come here. There is no reason for a kid like that to come to the U. When you have offers from successful programs, or a team that generally finishes 9-13th in the Big Ten, which one are you choosing?

The home team?

 

[howeda7]

Honest question...are we even going to be able to fill all the roster spots at this point? I doubt there are many high school recruits out there left to be gotten. Sure the portal is filled with kids, but so far we've only been able to land kids from George Washington, William and Mary, New Hampshire, Lafayette, Charleston and some D2 school. I'd be worried about our outcome if the Gophers were in the Summit League, let alone the B1G.

Due to the free COVID year, there are generally going to be more players seeking a power 5 spot than there are open scholarships. We will probably able to fill at least 11-12 spots. Will they be any higher caliber than the guys we've already signed? Not likely

I've been a Gophers fan for almost 25 years and this is the lowest I've felt as a fan. Even lower than the 15-16 season and the 06-07 season. It just looks like this is going to blow up big time.

I pretty much agree. But sometimes teams that you have zero expectations for end up being the most fun to watch.

 

[GopherPlaya]

You have to give him time for sure but from a fan perspective it is going to be a long term turnaround, with the results we have seen in the last decade that is just hard to swallow. It is pretty obvious that Johnson isn't going to provide a quick fix and we probably won't see anything until year 3 at the earliest. Might be time to take a sabbatical from Gopher basketball.

I just don't understand why people expected a quick turnaround. 2-3 years would be what I expected regardless of the coach

 

[Gophers7633]

Due to the free COVID year, there are generally going to be more players seeking a power 5 spot than there are open scholarships. We will probably able to fill at least 11-12 spots. Will they be any higher caliber than the guys we've already signed? Not likely

I pretty much agree. But sometimes teams that you have zero expectations for end up being the most fun to watch.

That is very well said on both things. I've never seemed to peg the Gophers and what to expect heading into the season. Before the 16-17 season I thought we'd be better, but didn't think we'd make the tournament, much less be a 5 seed. I obviously thought we'd be a top 25 team heading into 17-18, then that blew up. I didn't have great expectations for 18-19, then we won a tournament game. Then last year, I thought we'd be a top 25 team.

I have as little expectation next year as I've ever had going into a season. So maybe, it can still be a rewarding season, if they exceed that, but still only win like 5 conference games. I'm guessing a 5/6 win season next year, including the OOC games.

 

[Gophers7633]

I just don't understand why people expected a quick turnaround. 2-3 years would be what I expected regardless of the coach

Prior to Beard going to Texas Tech, that program was probably in worse shape than what Johnson is taking over as far as wins/losses. 2 years later they were in the E8. Muss had Arkansas in the E8, 2 years after taking that job. Nate Oats had Bama in the S16 after 2 years. They all did it through the portal, and in the case of Beard it was developing at a high rate with guys like Smith and Culver and with Muss it was with a high end class this past year with Moody, Davis and Williams. I'm certainly not under the notion that we should be thinking of the E8 or even S16 in two years, but if you hire the right coach a quick turnaround is manageable, even with the mess that's going on right now. The one thing in common all those guys had was that they all landed GREAT recruiting classes after their first year as coach. With Beard it was the Culver/Smith class. Alabama had a top 15 class and Arkansas had a top 10 class. It's set up perfect for Johnson with the amount of 4 stars in the 22 class. He needs to land a great class.

 

[Johnnyboy18]

Prior to Beard going to Texas Tech, that program was probably in worse shape than what Johnson is taking over as far as wins/losses. 2 years later they were in the E8. Muss had Arkansas in the E8, 2 years after taking that job. Nate Oats had Bama in the S16 after 2 years. They all did it through the portal, and in the case of Beard it was developing at a high rate with guys like Smith and Culver and with Muss it was with a high end class this past year with Moody, Davis and Williams. I'm certainly not under the notion that we should be thinking of the E8 or even S16 in two years, but if you hire the right coach a quick turnaround is manageable, even with the mess that's going on right now. The one thing in common all those guys had was that they all landed GREAT recruiting classes after their first year as coach. With Beard it was the Culver/Smith class. Alabama had a top 15 class and Arkansas had a top 10 class. It's set up perfect for Johnson with the amount of 4 stars in the 22 class. He needs to land a great class.

Agree with your overall point but Beard inherited an NCAA tournament team.

 

[Gophers7633]

Agree with your overall point but Beard inherited an NCAA tournament team.

TTU was 54 in KenPom when Beard took over, the Gophers were 62 last year, so it's a pretty minimal difference in terms of quality of team. Beard also had a completely different roster by year 2 because of his 2017 recruiting class and through transfers. Johnson will be looking at the same thing. It can be turned around pretty quickly. This mass exodus I don't think it helping and doesn't look great perception wise.

 

[Johnnyboy18]

TTU was 54 in KenPom when Beard took over, the Gophers were 62 last year, so it's a pretty minimal difference in terms of quality of team. Beard also had a completely different roster by year 2 because of his 2017 recruiting class and through transfers. Johnson will be looking at the same thing. It can be turned around pretty quickly. This mass exodus I don't think it helping and doesn't look great perception wise.

3 of the 5 starters in year 2 were holdover from Tubby's NCAA tournament team. Much different situation than this one but agree to disagree.

 

[Gophers7633]

3 of the 5 starters in year 2 were holdover from Tubby's NCAA tournament team. Much different situation than this one but agree to disagree.

5 of the top 7 scorers weren't on the team when he got there. And 1 of those 2 guys missed 1/3 of the season. None of them were key contributors when he took over, but Evans turned into an All Big 12 player and then Culver and Smith were lowly rated recruits who were developed at a high level in year 2. Also, some credit goes to Beard for being able to keep some guys. The Gophers situation is worse, only because everyone defected. But my overall takeaway is that the roster will look completely different in year 2.

 

[stocker08]

I stand on the side of thinking we rushed the hiring process leaving us short of hiring the best possible candidate, whoever that may have been. I haven't really said anything about Ben as a coach because we don't know anything about Ben as a coach. I had asked for more insight into the style of play he plans on implementing, but was told that was a really entitled question to ask at this point. Where I stand? LOL stop with that tribal talk, we are ALL Gopher fans here, we ALL want them to win, even if some have more pessimistic takes than others at this point.

The problem with the thought that we "rushed" the process is that is seems like the process wasn't rushed at all. It seems like Ben Johnson is who Coyle wanted right from the beginning.

 

[Holy Man]

The problem with the thought that we "rushed" the process is that is seems like the process wasn't rushed at all. It seems like Ben Johnson is who Coyle wanted right from the beginning.

Or whoever is pulling the strings.

 

[dlnavra]

5 of the top 7 scorers weren't on the team when he got there. And 1 of those 2 guys missed 1/3 of the season. None of them were key contributors when he took over, but Evans turned into an All Big 12 player and then Culver and Smith were lowly rated recruits who were developed at a high level in year 2. Also, some credit goes to Beard for being able to keep some guys. The Gophers situation is worse, only because everyone defected. But my overall takeaway is that the roster will look completely different in year 2.

Have to correct the Bama-related as well. Avery Johnson had an excellent recruiting class in '17, and all three of Jones, Petty and Reese turned out to be key pieces after Johnson's departure, along with Shackleford, who was recruited by Johnson and Oats was able to retain. Credit due for keeping this talent, adding to it and delivering great results. On Texas Tech, Beard has eye for talent/fit both xfer portal and (regardless of prep ranking) high school level.

It's interesting to watch certain coaches and who they pick up via the portal. It's not always a name school the kids come from nor their high school ranking etc., and that can't be the measuring stick. But what's fair and obvious so far, is Ben Johnson has not been able to pull anyone who will add to inside game. I don't think Gopher fans should have been expected to give up on a year, and wait for the roster to develop almost from scratch. They weren't terrible last year, and it's tough to think in terms of completely starting over. Maybe Ben missed on a couple he thought he had. But still will be fun to see how things develop, maybe a little similar to Huskers and early Hoiberg with lots of movement in/out each year.

 

[60's Guy]

Pitino is a bottom 10% coach in conference history. Ben gets his chance to do better now.

Yup. Don’t believe I said Richard should still be coaching the Gophers. Don’t believe I said Ben wasn’t going to get his chance.

I’m not a fan of stat based only evaluations when it comes to judging someone. But since everybody bashes Pitino on a stats basis, I would just say the results have been a disaster in Ben’s first weeks.

He has 7 or so open scholarships to do his thing. I’d prefer the Gophers get back into the Top 25 at some point again next season.

 

[60's Guy]

I like his assistants a whole lot. I like the tone and focus on character. I like the quiet nature. I like having a smart coach. We actually have a chance to build a foundation.

We do need to be able to recruit some higher skilled athletes than we have so far.
But yes, we could eventually be solid.

 

[Johnnyboy18]

Yup. Don’t believe I said Richard should still be coaching the Gophers. Don’t believe I said Ben wasn’t going to get his chance.

I’m not a fan of stat based only evaluations when it comes to judging someone. But since everybody bashes Pitino on a stats basis, I would just say the results have been a disaster in Ben’s first weeks.

He has 7 or so open scholarships to do his thing. I’d prefer the Gophers get back into the Top 25 at some point again next season.

Lol is Pitino's resume supposed to be good on a results basis?

 

[60's Guy]

Wow ! That is the standard ? What about conference contention, a conference title, a elite 8 or final 4. What about doing well enough to sell out the Barn.

Absolutely. Pitino did not achieve sustained success. But I’m saying he wasn’t hopeless. The results on paper on seasons end were unsatisfactory but very often at some point in the season he had the team in the Top 25.
I’d like Ben to get us back there.
If he can do that, as I said, I think he and his staff can keep us there which would achieve the higher goals.

 

[60's Guy]

Overall body of work was garbage. He failed here miserably. Next man up.

I stated pretty loudly it was time for a change.

 

[60's Guy]

Lol is Pitino's resume supposed to be good on a results basis?

Hey, go bully and twist somebody else’s words.
I agreed Pitino’s stats are very poor. What I said was there are other ways to judge someone apart from stats.
The New Mexico AD found some redeeming qualities. The six guys he recruited to New Mexico are all higher rated than any Gopher. So some people see some value in Richard.
You don’t see any good in Richard. I know that. You are are welcome to your opinion. I’ll voice mine even if it doesn’t agree with yours.

 

[60's Guy]

Don't see why that matters. This was his most talented team and he still managed to mismanage them. Sure....injuries hurt. But Gabe was the only guy who went down earlyish in the season....and Tre was at worst a lateral move. It was pushing Robbins on the court with a janky ankle that doomed the season when that got way worse. And it happened in the second Illinois game where we were already getting slaughtered. Why make excuses for Pitino's odd handling of the roster? He recruited Sam Freeman. Why was he so against playing him that he instead chose to push Robbins into a season ending injury? And then when Robbins went down and Freeman was forced into extended minutes....guy didn't have any significant time on the court.

Pitino coasted off his name....but it's clear that he didn't have the ability to succeed here. Carr concealed a lot of the issues with the stagnant offense that he ran by doing everything himself. And let's not forget the 2nd half woes where the opposing team took the Gophers to the shed. No halftime adjustments.......nothing. With Carr gone....this year also would have been a disaster even if we had held onto the remainder of the roster.

I have very much been a critic of Richard’s roster management. I agree with several things you say.
“Why does being ranked in the Top 25 at some point in most seasons matter?”
Many reasons: It offers hope. It’s hard to do. Optimism this will be our year.
But, things happened every year to derail the season.
Roster management was a main reason.
Developing depth was non existent.
(Too many annoying scrolling ads to post)
If Ben gets in the Top 25 I’ll find things I like about his coaching too.

 

[Block M]

I agree, I would bet this would happen, and soon. If he was forced then he has no other choice but to leave because he isn't being allowed to do his job, therefore why stay? I wouldn't stay in a job where I am being overruled, but then held responsible for the outcome either directly or from a resume perspective.

Beyond wild speculation. Ben is his guy.

 

[umn99]

Beyond wild speculation. Ben is his guy.

Agree. No way Mark Coyle was forced into hiring Ben. That was his pick.

 

[builtbadgers]

Like @Holy Man alluded to, the early returns on Coach Johnson are quite unimpressive. Winners are good at winning. Whether it is in retention battles, recruiting battles, public support, basketball games, or whatever, winners compete at everything and produce results. Coach Johnson has produced very few results so far and his big battles (retention, recruiting, and hiring assistant coaches), have been quite unimpressive. Mark Coyle and the U leadership took a sizable risk in hiring Coach Johnson, and so far the risks have borne out.

For the people that say that we shouldn’t expect much of Coach Johnson at this point due to a lack of time onboard, take a look at Indiana or some of the other programs with new coaches. They have won their retention battles and recruiting battles. THAT is the difference between them and Minnesota, and that will lead to things like more wins on the court and in recruiting down the road. Even Coach Pitino has won quite a few retention and recruiting battles early in his time, albeit at an MWC program.

For me, i actually think he is off to a great start.

 

[3399]

Here is what I have seen:
Ben coached at Xavier. None of the multiple guys in the Xavier transfer portal are Gophers. The Gophers are in the Big Ten, it is a step up. If I coached kids everyday for a year, I'd like to think they'd desire to follow me anywhere. Has not happened. I also assume he had a part in recruiting to Xavier. Not a good look to me. Not a lot of charisma.
Ben recruited at least one former Gopher. Ben could not convince him to stay. That set off quite a few red flags for me.
Most Gophers were excited for next season under Pitino based on what they said prior to Richard's departure. Ben gets hired. He has a chance to recruit them all. He whiffs on them all, except one so far. That is not normal nor impressive.
The idea he is running guys off to establish his culture is moronic.
So far, the guys Ben has recruited were not good enough to be Gophers when they came out of high school. But their desire was to be Gophers. Given the opportunity they were excited to be Gophers. That is not what I'd call recruiting...that is filling out the low hanging paperwork.

He's got all summer to land a half a dozen better players. Hope he has success.
Honest question: Thorson's passion for basketball is unquestioned. He was able to recruit kids to DeLaSalle for free or reduced tuition and most stayed for six years because, I do not doubt they got better at basketball and as people. He won a lot of games but he also had superior talent.
My question: Does anybody like playing for the guy?
It seems he is wound very tight. I have no idea...just asking questions and wondering what the heck is going on...

I think a lot of people don't realize that there is a lot of animosity towards DeLaSalle from many high school coaches because of the way that they can recruit players. Plus, when DeLaSalle was beating up on small out-state schools in the State Tournament, that was not seen as a positive. So the thought that Dave Thorson can just walk into any high school in Minnesota and get any player that he wants is a huge stretch. He is a great guy and very passionate. Has a huge heart and very high character. His work at DeLaSalle was great for D, but it created a lot of tension with other schools.

 

[Holy Man]

For me, i actually think he is off to a great start.

If a complete purge of the previous administration is great start you are on to something. Blowing something up is much easier than building something. So far no evidence of anything being built. I’m with most of the rest in giving a chance, but not many, if any, hopeful signs right now.

 

[Tucker32]

I think a lot of people don't realize that there is a lot of animosity towards DeLaSalle from many high school coaches because of the way that they can recruit players. Plus, when DeLaSalle was beating up on small out-state schools in the State Tournament, that was not seen as a positive. So the thought that Dave Thorson can just walk into any high school in Minnesota and get any player that he wants is a huge stretch. He is a great guy and very passionate. Has a huge heart and very high character. His work at DeLaSalle was great for D, but it created a lot of tension with other schools.

He is highly respected among high school coaches, and more importantly AAU programs