Gophers guard Both Gach is expected to enter the transfer portal

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BarnBurner said:
Other programs rebound quickly. We should not expect that here in MN.
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2-3 years would be a quick turnaround, but in the Big 10, I think it's fair. To expect it in year 1 is preposterous. Next year will be a "set the tone" year. I think our judgement times need to hold off until October. By then we will most likely have some 2022 commits and our full roster for this year. Then we will have to exercise some patience at the start of the year as the guys learn to play together. As long as we defend better and actually get better at the end of the season, it'll be a successful season. Year 2 we will be super young and developing a large 2022 class. Year 3 is the year when things should really bounce.
 

manderson1984 said:
2-3 years would be a quick turnaround, but in the Big 10, I think it's fair. To expect it in year 1 is preposterous. Next year will be a "set the tone" year. I think our judgement times need to hold off until October. By then we will most likely have some 2022 commits and our full roster for this year. Then we will have to exercise some patience at the start of the year as the guys learn to play together. As long as we defend better and actually get better at the end of the season, it'll be a successful season. Year 2 we will be super young and developing a large 2022 class. Year 3 is the year when things should really bounce.
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It depends on how you define what a turnaround is. As an example, RP improved upon the record from the previous year his first year.

I'm confident a turnaround would mean something different to most on here.

Someone mentioned having better defensive statistic would be a success to them as an example.
 


Gophers7633 said:
Prior to Beard going to Texas Tech, that program was probably in worse shape than what Johnson is taking over as far as wins/losses. 2 years later they were in the E8. Muss had Arkansas in the E8, 2 years after taking that job. Nate Oats had Bama in the S16 after 2 years. They all did it through the portal, and in the case of Beard it was developing at a high rate with guys like Smith and Culver and with Muss it was with a high end class this past year with Moody, Davis and Williams. I'm certainly not under the notion that we should be thinking of the E8 or even S16 in two years, but if you hire the right coach a quick turnaround is manageable, even with the mess that's going on right now. The one thing in common all those guys had was that they all landed GREAT recruiting classes after their first year as coach. With Beard it was the Culver/Smith class. Alabama had a top 15 class and Arkansas had a top 10 class. It's set up perfect for Johnson with the amount of 4 stars in the 22 class. He needs to land a great class.
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Your two examples were coming off of earning coach of the year in their respective conferences and upsetting major conference teams in the first round of the NCAA. They were high profile coaches and their university invested heavily in their contracts. They were in a position to leverage their recent success, capitalize on their media coverage, and showcase their status at their new schools.

BJ has no recent conference success, no recent tournament history to speak of, and his contract plainly demonstrates his market value and the U’s commitment to him. I’m not shitting on BJ, but it could realistically take 3 years to even put a product on the floor that will begin to convince better talent to hop on. I think 5-6 years before we are ready to compete at the tournament/top 4 level is more realistic than 2 years.
 


SanDiegoGopherFan said:
It depends on how you define what a turnaround is. As an example, RP improved upon the record from the previous year his first year.

I'm confident a turnaround would mean something different to most on here.

Someone mentioned having better defensive statistic would be a success to them as an example.
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I wouldn't call that a turn around he won played 4 more games with the NIT but the next 2 years our record was worst than Tubby's last year and one was the worst record in school history so that's far from a turnaround. You can say Tubby had more of a turnaround during his first 3 years but at the same time there weren't many transfers & 2 of Monson's recruits played a huge role in that turnaround. I just think coming off back-to-back losing seasons and losing your 2 top players would have been tough for any coach to just turn around. This will take 2-3 years and 2 is being generous.
 


tikited said:
That would be good news imo.
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Without a doubt it would be. There is no way they are going to find 6 more players better than Both Gach this summer so I would be happy to see him stay!
 

He's in the portal. I think I saw the NCAA is going to meet on if players who transfer more than once will be allowed to play this year.
 



restovich said:
Doogie reporting that Both Gach NOT entering portal. Anyone else have confirmation? Let's get this thread back on topic.......
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Just curious...where are you seeing this? Took a look through his Twitter and don’t see anything about it from the last couple of days. I don’t listen to his podcast often. Is it in there?
 

His name was on the Verbal Commits portal website when this thread was started. He’s not listed there anymore (as of this morning), so maybe Ben talked him back from the ledge...?
 

goldenboy said:
His name was on the Verbal Commits portal website when this thread was started. He’s not listed there anymore (as of this morning), so maybe Ben talked him back from the ledge...?
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I just looked on Verbal Commits, and his name is still there. You need to scroll to the complete list or click CTRL-F and search on Gach.
 

goldenboy said:
His name was on the Verbal Commits portal website when this thread was started. He’s not listed there anymore (as of this morning), so maybe Ben talked him back from the ledge...?
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Interesting. Or maybe they were premature in adding it?

For the record I would like to keep Gach. I think there is a lot of potential there, and if he is healthy and BJ can get him into a good mental space he has a chance to be one of our top players. And you can count me as one of the sappy Gopher homers who likes to see Minnesotans on our roster.

EDIT: Saw it was a mistake, damn.
 



Marcus blew a lot of credibility with this one, Doogie now a more reliable source on Gopher BBall reporting, LOL
 


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Not that is proof but there are lots of tweets saying he is in the portal.
 

I guess I'd like Both to change his mind just to give me a little more assurance that Ben Johnson can sell his program. Both's from Minnesota and getting local recruits was to be a strength of Johnson's. That Gabe, with his connections to Minnesota and the coaches, transferred was disheartening. Both, not as much, but it did nothing to dispel my nervousness. It's very early. It will take time. We don't know the whole story. I get all that and I'm willing to hang in there; but, damn, give me an occasional ray of hope.
 

it's interesting. Verbal commits links it out to Fuller's tweet that he's in the portal. 247 does not have him listed. He is still listed as a UMN student. So really the steam is all coming from Fuller's original story
 

Mulligan said:
I guess I'd like Both to change his mind just to give me a little more assurance that Ben Johnson can sell his program. Both's from Minnesota and getting local recruits was to be a strength of Johnson's. That Gabe, with his connections to Minnesota and the coaches, transferred was disheartening. Both, not as much, but it did nothing to dispel my nervousness. It's very early. It will take time. We don't know the whole story. I get all that and I'm willing to hang in there; but, damn, give me an occasional ray of hope.
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I wouldn't stress it anymore. Once we see whatever players on the floor and how they play, will tell us and more importantly future recruits a lot about if they want to come play here.
 

bc2211 said:
Your two examples were coming off of earning coach of the year in their respective conferences and upsetting major conference teams in the first round of the NCAA. They were high profile coaches and their university invested heavily in their contracts. They were in a position to leverage their recent success, capitalize on their media coverage, and showcase their status at their new schools.

BJ has no recent conference success, no recent tournament history to speak of, and his contract plainly demonstrates his market value and the U’s commitment to him. I’m not shitting on BJ, but it could realistically take 3 years to even put a product on the floor that will begin to convince better talent to hop on. I think 5-6 years before we are ready to compete at the tournament/top 4 level is more realistic than 2 years.
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Yeah, I agree with you, and I think that's part of the problem. I hope BJ does good obviously, but he's an unknown and unproven coach to anyone outside the state of MN. He doesn't have the cache those coaches I mentioned have. We are in the B1G, I wish we would spend like it on our bball program. If it took 4/4.5 million to lure in a better coach, it would have been money well spent.

But the admin didn't do that so we have what we have, and hopefully it turns out good.
 

upnorthkid said:
it's interesting. Verbal commits links it out to Fuller's tweet that he's in the portal. 247 does not have him listed. He is still listed as a UMN student. So really the steam is all coming from Fuller's original story
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It is confusing. One thing that will be interesting to watch is the decision on second waivers. Would Both be willing to sit out a year if the NCAA decides not to grant it for that group that has already transferred once.
 

manderson1984 said:
2-3 years would be a quick turnaround, but in the Big 10, I think it's fair. To expect it in year 1 is preposterous. Next year will be a "set the tone" year. I think our judgement times need to hold off until October. By then we will most likely have some 2022 commits and our full roster for this year. Then we will have to exercise some patience at the start of the year as the guys learn to play together. As long as we defend better and actually get better at the end of the season, it'll be a successful season. Year 2 we will be super young and developing a large 2022 class. Year 3 is the year when things should really bounce.
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3 years is not a quick turnaround.
 


GopherBlood666 said:
Ill take it if the end result is conference titles. Leave it if it means getting back to where we've been.
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Something more realistic would be 3 years to have a top 6 team in the B1G. Chris Beard tied for his first conference championship in year three. Jay Wright didn't win one until year 5 or 6.

BarnBurner said:
3 years is not a quick turnaround.
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If we finish in the top 6 on year three and recruiting looks like its in a good place, Ben has turned it around and done so quickly. To demand more than that is fine as a fan, but you'd be crazy and disappointed 95% of the time.
 

manderson1984 said:
Something more realistic would be 3 years to have a top 6 team in the B1G. Chris Beard tied for his first conference championship in year three. Jay Wright didn't win one until year 5 or 6.



If we finish in the top 6 on year three and recruiting looks like its in a good place, Ben has turned it around and done so quickly. To demand more than that is fine as a fan, but you'd be crazy and disappointed 95% of the time.
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Comparing Beard and Wright to Johnson.

I hope the comparison comes true.

Big if
 


manderson1984 said:
That's my point. They are two of the top five coaches in NCAA basketball at this time. If they can't do it in that time, then we probably shouldn't expect Ben to.
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Nobody is expecting titles in 3 years. However, playing very competitive BB year 2 should be expected as well as a lot of wins. Many have done it.
 

SanDiegoGopherFan said:
It depends on how you define what a turnaround is. As an example, RP improved upon the record from the previous year his first year.

I'm confident a turnaround would mean something different to most on here.

Someone mentioned having better defensive statistic would be a success to them as an example.
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The Gopher team that Pitino inherited won an NCAA tournament game the year before. Pitino's first team didn't make the tournament. I'd rather have a team that won a game in the NCAA tournament than one that won the NIT.
 

ethomasp31 said:
The Gopher team that Pitino inherited won an NCAA tournament game the year before. Pitino's first team didn't make the tournament. I'd rather have a team that won a game in the NCAA tournament than one that won the NIT.
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Well... that's not actually what Pitino got. Pitino got a team that had won an NCAA game minus Trevor Mbakwe, Rodney Williams and Joe Coleman. In addition, no recruits were passed on from Tubby. Pitino did quite a job that first year. That should not be hard to admit.
 

bga1 said:
Well... that's not actually what Pitino got. Pitino got a team that had won an NCAA game minus Trevor Mbakwe, Rodney Williams and Joe Coleman. In addition, no recruits were passed on from Tubby. Pitino did quite a job that first year. That should not be hard to admit.
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He said they had a better record. They won 5 NIT games to get that better record. I don't think they had a better season Pitino's first year than Tubby's last year. I understand he didn't have the expectations that Tubby's final team had and that Tubby's last team underachieved a little from what we were hoping for while Pitino's team overachieved....but I would rather win a game in the NCAA tournament than win the NIT....that was my point....

So no, I don't think we improved in Pitino's first year from the year Tubby had the year previous.
 

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