Oy - Police investigate case involving four suspended Gophers players

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GopherLady said:
It's always such a sensitive topic with alcohol involved, being able to give consent, etc.
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Yep. This may or may not offend people or be an unpopular post and I know it is a sensitive issue but I do believe the vast majority of the time on college campuses, sexual assault allegations are a case where at the time it was consensual but there was heavy drinking going on and then when they sober'ed up, one of the parties involved regrets the incident claiming sexual assault.

Now legally that still can/does qualify for sexual assault as you can't legally give consent when consuming alcohol but I think when most fans see sexual assault allegations, they automatically assume it was forcible rape. I don't want to say that it never happens because obviously it does with the Stanford swimmer Brock Turner and the Oregon State players when O'reilly was coaching, but to me it does seem that most sexual assault allegations are a case of it being consensual or not with heavy alcohol involved. That seems to be the case with these guys and I'm sure thats what happened with Reggie, Jameis Winston etc.

Also nice that this appears to be solved quickly and shouldn't drag on unlike other gopher cases.
 

die hard gopher said:
..but to me it does seem that most sexual assault allegations are a case of it being consensual or not with heavy alcohol involved. That seems to be the case with these guys and I'm sure thats what happened with Reggie, Jameis Winston etc.
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Which is why Winston's alleged victim went public, appeared in a documentary about sexual assault on campuses, filed a civil suit, was awarded $950,000....

An investigation done by the New York Times last spring concluded that, “there was virtually no investigation at all, either by the police or the university.” One particularly glaring misstep by Tallahassee police was that they waited two weeks to interview Mr. Winston after Kinsman identified him and failed to collect a DNA sample from him.
 


die hard gopher said:
Yep. This may or may not offend people or be an unpopular post and I know it is a sensitive issue but I do believe the vast majority of the time on college campuses, sexual assault allegations are a case where at the time it was consensual but there was heavy drinking going on and then when they sober'ed up, one of the parties involved regrets the incident claiming sexual assault.

Now legally that still can/does qualify for sexual assault as you can't legally give consent when consuming alcohol but I think when most fans see sexual assault allegations, they automatically assume it was forcible rape. I don't want to say that it never happens because obviously it does with the Stanford swimmer Brock Turner and the Oregon State players when O'reilly was coaching, but to me it does seem that most sexual assault allegations are a case of it being consensual or not with heavy alcohol involved. That seems to be the case with these guys and I'm sure thats what happened with Reggie, Jameis Winston etc.

Also nice that this appears to be solved quickly and shouldn't drag on unlike other gopher cases.
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Reggie's probably, famous Jameis, not so much. FSU went to great lengths to cover that up and the Tallahassee PD seemed like a willing participant.
 

die hard gopher said:
Yep. This may or may not offend people or be an unpopular post and I know it is a sensitive issue but I do believe the vast majority of the time on college campuses, sexual assault allegations are a case where at the time it was consensual but there was heavy drinking going on and then when they sober'ed up, one of the parties involved regrets the incident claiming sexual assault.

Now legally that still can/does qualify for sexual assault as you can't legally give consent when consuming alcohol but I think when most fans see sexual assault allegations, they automatically assume it was forcible rape. I don't want to say that it never happens because obviously it does with the Stanford swimmer Brock Turner and the Oregon State players when O'reilly was coaching, but to me it does seem that most sexual assault allegations are a case of it being consensual or not with heavy alcohol involved. That seems to be the case with these guys and I'm sure thats what happened with Reggie, Jameis Winston etc.

Also nice that this appears to be solved quickly and shouldn't drag on unlike other gopher cases.
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How do you even quantify your "vast majority of the time" theory?

The fact that you cite Jameis would indicate it's just personal bias that informs your POV there.... I'm not sure you know much about even the examples you bothered to cite.
 

Don't know if anyone has been following the rape allegations against a North Carolina FB player. In that case, according to the reports I've heard, there are allegedly tapes showing the police questioning the player, and telling him "don't worry about it. just keep playing football."
 

short ornery norwegian said:
Don't know if anyone has been following the rape allegations against a North Carolina FB player. In that case, according to the reports I've heard, there are allegedly tapes showing the police questioning the player, and telling him "don't worry about it. just keep playing football."
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Wow that's bad and hopefully those officers will be held accountable to the extent possible.
 



die hard gopher said:
Yep. This may or may not offend people or be an unpopular post and I know it is a sensitive issue but I do believe the vast majority of the time on college campuses, sexual assault allegations are a case where at the time it was consensual but there was heavy drinking going on and then when they sober'ed up, one of the parties involved regrets the incident claiming sexual assault.

Now legally that still can/does qualify for sexual assault as you can't legally give consent when consuming alcohol but I think when most fans see sexual assault allegations, they automatically assume it was forcible rape. I don't want to say that it never happens because obviously it does with the Stanford swimmer Brock Turner and the Oregon State players when O'reilly was coaching, but to me it does seem that most sexual assault allegations are a case of it being consensual or not with heavy alcohol involved. That seems to be the case with these guys and I'm sure thats what happened with Reggie, Jameis Winston etc.

Also nice that this appears to be solved quickly and shouldn't drag on unlike other gopher cases.
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Yeah, not a good post, as you are learning from the responses, including mine. This is why it is such a problem...opinions like this one...not good.
 

PMWinSTP said:
Yeah, not a good post, as you are learning from the responses, including mine. This is why it is such a problem...opinions like this one...not good.
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I wouldn't have said the vast majority of the time but what he described does happen. Every allegation needs to be taken seriously and a thorough investigation always needs to take place. Many times when alcohol is involved, it can be an extremely difficult situation
 


GophersInIowa said:
I wouldn't have said the vast majority of the time but what he described does happen. Every allegation needs to be taken seriously and a thorough investigation always needs to take place. Many times when alcohol is involved, it can be an extremely difficult situation
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I agree with this. My girlfriend in college had a roommate that went after a guy with an assault allegation after a sexual encounter that did not lead to a relationship. I have no idea on how often allegations are brought after remorse from an encounter, but it does happen.
 



GophersInIowa said:
I wouldn't have said the vast majority of the time but what he described does happen. Every allegation needs to be taken seriously and a thorough investigation always needs to take place. Many times when alcohol is involved, it can be an extremely difficult situation
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Well of course it does, but extremely infrequently. Duke La Crosse. Many more go unreported precisely because of the opinion/attitude expressed in that post. It's the classic "question the victim" mentality.
 

GopherLady said:
I heard it was consensual, and it's looking like they will not be charged (which changed from 2 days ago).

It's always such a sensitive topic with alcohol involved, being able to give consent, etc.

I've refrained from posting on this (as I do many topics) so you don't kill the messenger, so please don't. My sources are usually pretty solid, but as in every case, as new info gets uncovered, things change.
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Whether it was consensual or not is usually the question to which each side has different answers.

Maybe you don't know this or maybe you can't say. But when you say, "It was consensual," are you saying the woman has acknowledged consent? Or is that simply the argument the men are making?
 

GopherLady I respect and appreciate the informative comments that you post. Hates Monikers, your point is also legit.
 

PMWinSTP said:
Well of course it does, but extremely infrequently. Duke La Crosse. Many more go unreported precisely because of the opinion/attitude expressed in that post. It's the classic "question the victim" mentality.
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In my experience most people underestimate the prevalence of mental illness and antisocial behavior. That is why we have a criminal justice system and due process. It is also why women should be extra careful around known predators (men), as it is oftentimes difficult to prove guilt.
 

Vast majority might be an overstatement but based on what I have learned from my college experience as well what I know from other siblings and people close to me, I do feel that more often than not, it is a case of whether it was consensual or not with alcohol making it a murky line as opposed to pure rape. When I was younger I assumed like most on here do that most sexual assault allegations are of forcible rape or a case of the perpetrator drugging and raping an unconscious victim but I am older now and have been closer to these types of situations than in the past.

I do admit that of course there can be a lot of speculation on these issues and I obviously don't know every detail of every case or know for sure what really happened. I also acknowledge that the percentage of certain types of sexual assault allegations may differ from college to college and that in a case of a DI football player, violent, forcible rape may be more common of a sexual assault allegation than a sexual assault allegation in the case of a regular student. All that being said, I do feel comfortable in believing what I said based on what I have learned over the years and although these are sensitive issues, I don't apologize for it.
 

PMWinSTP said:
Many more go unreported precisely because of the opinion/attitude expressed in that post. It's the classic "question the victim" mentality.
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I'm not arguing that cases where alcohol created a murky line in terms of consent are not serious or that they do not constitute sexual assault. I'm not saying that a female should't report a sexual assault allegation if this was what happened or that they are lying if they do. Legally, you cannot give consent if you are impaired by alcohol so instances like these many times still qualify as sexual assault and should be.

I'm arguing that these types of incidents are more common than people think when there is a sexual assault allegation and that people should not automatically assume it was pure rape like they usually do.
 


A good rule: If you wouldn't appreciate someone treating your sister/mother a certain way, you shouldn't treat ANY woman that way.

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Lordshawesome said:
A good rule: If you wouldn't appreciate someone treating your sister/mother a certain way, you shouldn't treat ANY woman that way.

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You like to think about your sister and/or mom while you are hooking up with college chicks?
 

bottlebass said:
You like to think about your sister and/or mom while you are hooking up with college chicks?
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Where in my post did I mention hooking up?... I'm talking about treating women with respect. I'm guessing that went over your head

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Lordshawesome said:
A good rule: If you wouldn't appreciate someone treating your sister/mother a certain way, you shouldn't treat ANY woman that way.

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk
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Hey wait...if you're suggesting that when I get with a woman, I should consider that what I'm doing with her I do to my sister and mother - you are one sick dude! :mad:
 

Lordshawesome said:
Where in my post did I mention hooking up?... I'm talking about treating women with respect. I'm guessing that went over your head

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Maybe you missed what this thread was about?
 

I'm just speaking in generalities. ANY behavior you would not like done to your sister, should apply to ALL women. If you think that it is a bad idea to always be respectful of women, you are a ******...

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Lordshawesome said:
I'm just speaking in generalities. ANY behavior you would not like done to your sister, should apply to ALL women. If you think that it is a bad idea to always be respectful of women, you are a ******...

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk
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Some women don't like the whole chivalry thing. To each their own. You need to chill out dude, its a buy week, gophers can only go up in the polls!
 

PMWinSTP said:
Well of course it does, but extremely infrequently. Duke La Crosse. Many more go unreported precisely because of the opinion/attitude expressed in that post. It's the classic "question the victim" mentality.
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Again, I think the whole point in all of this is that when alcohol is involved, it can be really hard to prove or disprove consent.
 

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