Wow: Kirk Ciarrocca Takes OC Job at Rutgers

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Panthadad2 said:
I have no idea. I'm not on that team and have no idea if Simon is ready to be the head OC. Thing is, you can't just discount that Simon is a Minnesota and Upper Midwest guy. There is value to that. In the end, only PJ knows where this heads.
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Farmington, MN

And PJ was his WR coach at Northern Illinois!
 


Gophers_4life said:
Nah, you have a personal stick up your rear end about me in particular.

God knows why, but you do you.
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I dont like flawed logic...and well, you post a lot so it is much more noticeable ;)

It is nothing personal, I just think you are making circular arguments on this hire because you like your guy. I get it we all do stuff like that when we have our biases but if you are going to post the same thing 12 times and ignore all the arguments against it someone will point it out to you.

Plus you are an example of the "if you dont like the guy I like you are a hater!!1!" argument which is ridiculous. I question PJ doesn't mean I hate him. I am skeptical of a lot of people but I am not locking out the idea they might be right. My gf questions me all the time I doubt she hates me...wait...bad example :p
 

GopherWeatherGuy said:
This is like a lower level employee complaining they don’t make as much as the CEO…it’s nonsense
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Oh exactly! Offensive coordinators aren’t important . They really don’t do anything. Just grab a student manager and coach em up.
 

Panthadad2 said:
I have no idea. I'm not on that team and have no idea if Simon is ready to be the head OC. Thing is, you can't just discount that Simon is a Minnesota and Upper Midwest guy. There is value to that. In the end, only PJ knows where this heads.
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Oh I don't...the "one of us" mentality is huge here which is probably the main reason a lot of people want him. I just think that should be the "all things being equal" factor, not the main one or even in the top 3.

Put it this way, I am glad I am not having to make the hire ;)
 


Gophers_4life said:
- Athan -- if he's going to be forced to learn a new offensive system, and they're going to deny Simon for a second time and cast him aside, the guy who likely recruited his brother if not also himself .... is he going to change his tune after spring ball?
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Going to have to disagree. If it was a physically limited QB that had spent years in a particular system, there could be an argument. For all the possible reasons that AK chose to Row the Boat, I doubt that a run-heavy, hold the ball strategy was the deciding factor.

My guess is AK is quite adaptable and might actually prefer a different offense, though there is still the issue of how much time do they need to implement it.

As long as we're speculating, Kirk leaving would be more reason for AK to leave than Simon getting "denied".
 
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60's Guy said:
Oh exactly! Offensive coordinators aren’t important . They really don’t do anything. Just grab a student manager and coach em up.
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Who said that? KC's pay here was in line with where it should be and the difference between OC and head coach salary is similar across the country. Rutgers is overpaying him and he would be stupid not to take that money.
 

Gophers_4life said:
- Athan -- if he's going to be forced to learn a new offensive system, and they're going to deny Simon for a second time and cast him aside, the guy who likely recruited his brother if not also himself .... is he going to change his tune after spring ball?
- riffing on that -- indeed, Simon himself could decide enough is enough and look elsewhere, and try to bring Athan (and Dino) with him.
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According to 247sports Matt Simon is not listed as the primary, secondary, or tertiary recruiter for either of the Kaliakmanis brothers.

This feels like all speculation, which in turn one could speculate Simon may not want to be a coordinator. We’ve seen him be fine with being passed over before.
 

Dave H said:
I dont like flawed logic...and well, you post a lot so it is much more noticeable ;)

It is nothing personal, I just think you are making circular arguments on this hire because you like your guy. I get it we all do stuff like that when we have our biases but if you are going to post the same thing 12 times and ignore all the arguments against it someone will point it out to you.

Plus you are an example of the "if you dont like the guy I like you are a hater!!1!" argument which is ridiculous. I question PJ doesn't mean I hate him. I am skeptical of a lot of people but I am not locking out the idea they might be right. My gf questions me all the time I doubt she hates me...wait...bad example :p
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I was wondering how there were so many posts but then I saw a flurry of replies to G4L and it all made sense lol. Dude posts so much random stuff with zero evidence (most posts start with I don't know or I could be making things up, etc.) and when you try to counter it he wants proof and facts to refute their hypothetical. One of the few I have on ignore as their illogical takes made my head hurt lol.

I won't see his inevitable response but this isn't hating. I think he's a huge fan but I just can't deal with that sort of argument style...I'm gonna throw something out there and you prove it wrong.
 




kg21 said:
Kirk got $600,000 more to go to Rutgers.

Plus, his daughter goes to Rutgers.

That's pretty much game, set, match.
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Additionally the U sets the buyout, if another programs wants to pay that and give him a substaintial raise there's nothing you can do.
 

Panthadad2 said:
I don't think KC was ever much of a recruiter. His recruitment resume' on 247 is pretty short compared to Simon's. I get the sense his strength was Xs and Os and development.
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Yeah. He seem kind of brusque and crabby for a good recruiter.
 

pharmacygopher said:
I was wondering how there were so many posts but then I saw a flurry of replies to G4L and it all made sense lol. Dude posts so much random stuff with zero evidence (most posts start with I don't know or I could be making things up, etc.) and when you try to counter it he wants proof and facts to refute their hypothetical. One of the few I have on ignore as their illogical takes made my head hurt lol.

I won't see his inevitable response but this isn't hating. I think he's a huge fan but I just can't deal with that sort of argument style...I'm gonna throw something out there and you prove it wrong.
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GFL sounds a lot like MPLSGopher...😉
 



I don't think anyone would even mention Simon as a candidate for the OC job if he was from Michigan as opposed to Minnesota. The WR position was arguably the weakest link of an offense that was the reason this team wasn't in the Big Ten championship game this season. In reality, we've had one standout year on offense in PJ's 6 years at the helm. Sanford being a failure is not a reason to be afraid of going outside an offensive staff that hasn't produced at level that would make you want to stick with the status quo. Would Simon be a candidate for an OC job at another Big Ten school? We know that answer to that.
 

EG#9 said:
I don't think anyone would even mention Simon as a candidate for the OC job if he was from Michigan as opposed to Minnesota. The WR position was arguably the weakest link of an offense that was the reason this team wasn't in the Big Ten championship game this season. In reality, we've had one standout year on offense in PJ's 6 years at the helm. Sanford being a failure is not a reason to be afraid of going outside an offensive staff that hasn't produced at level that would make you want to stick with the status quo. Would Simon be a candidate for an OC job at another Big Ten school? We know that answer to that.
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I would argue it was as much the QB. Loved Morgan but the passing offense came alive with AK in Wisconsin and again in the bowl game until his injury, then it reverted back to almost non-existent.
 

PMWinSTP said:
I would argue it was as much the QB. Loved Morgan but the passing offense came alive with AK in Wisconsin and again in the bowl game until his injury, then it reverted back to almost non-existent.
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Really? Tanner was 4/7 against Cuse with two TD's before Fleck shut him down.
 


Gophers_4life said:
Also, the idea that Fleck will ever give the OC full "autonomy" is laughable.

This is Fleck's offense. Always has been and will be. No person on Earth is going to come in here and get Fleck's blessing to start throwing the ball 70% of the time. For example
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In the ideal world of PJ Fleck, I believe he would like a 40 pass/60 pass ratio with the right personnel. Take a look at WMU stats. This year we saw a bit over 32%. But only about 37% in 2019. But Fleck hasn't had a Zac Terrell to work with.

The CFB playoffs have highlighted the passing game. But I don't expect PJ to go over the deep end and change his plan. Maybe AK will develop enough to get us to the point of a more balance offense within the framework of PJ's style.
 

Bayfieldgopher said:
In the ideal world of PJ Fleck, I believe he would like a 40 pass/60 pass ratio with the right personnel. Take a look at WMU stats. This year we saw a bit over 32%. But only about 37% in 2019. But Fleck hasn't had a Zac Terrell to work with.

The CFB playoffs have highlighted the passing game. But I don't expect PJ to go over the deep end and change his plan. Maybe AK will develop enough to get us to the point of a more balance offense within the framework of PJ's style.
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8 will continue to develop obviously but he’s the real deal right now already a top end QB and a star in the making.
 

PMWinSTP said:
OK. He did that over 2 1/2 quarters. 58 yards. When exactly did Fleck shut the passing game down? What were AK's stats?
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I guess you watched the game. Go back and look. I don't believe Tanner attempted a pass in the 4th and maybe 3 in the 3rd.

If AK was still QB, would you expect anything much different from PJ in the 4th assuming we had a two TD lead?

I think deep within PJ he believes that 3 things happen when you and pass and two are bad.
 

Bayfieldgopher said:
I think deep within PJ he believes that 3 things happen when you and pass and two are bad
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I absolutely think you are correct in this thinking, and there is a part of me, a small part of me, that doesn’t mind this because I think we can consistently win 8-9 games a year with that thinking. However, there is another part of me, the larger part, that despises this line of PJ’s thinking, and much like with Mason, the fan base will eventually tire of not being able to get over the hump and win big, at least on occasion. PJ needs to eventually realize that even he has to change his best and open things up offensively. And I don’t mean go run and shoot. But the 3 yards and a cloud of dust and mostly only throwing when you have to is not going to be able to keep up with the elite offenses of Ohio State, USC, Micigan and others. And who know what Fickell and Rhule will build at Wisconsin and Nebraska.
 

Bayfieldgopher said:
I guess you watched the game. Go back and look. I don't believe Tanner attempted a pass in the 4th and maybe 3 in the 3rd.

If AK was still QB, would you expect anything much different from PJ in the 4th assuming we had a two TD lead?

I think deep within PJ he believes that 3 things happen when you and pass and two are bad.
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Sorry, you can't deny the offensive game plan changed when Morgan came into the game. It became very conservative.
 


PMWinSTP said:
Sorry, you can't deny the offensive game plan changed when Morgan came into the game. It became very conservative.
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I think it had more to do with Fleck being ultra conservative situationally.

We ran out the clock at the end of the first, we ran out the click at our last two possessions of the game. Those make up half of his possessions - two of his other possessions ended with TD passes.
 


Bob_Loblaw said:
I think it had more to do with Fleck being ultra conservative situationally.

We ran out the clock at the end of the first, we ran out the click at our last two possessions of the game. Those make up half of his possessions - two of his other possessions ended with TD passes.
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Interesting take. What was the score when Morgan replaced AK?
 

PMWinSTP said:
Interesting take. What was the score when Morgan replaced AK?
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It was 7-0, then Tanner led them on a TD drive and PJ hit the breaks (in both halves).

On tanner’s first drive, we passed three times and ran once. It ended in a TD pass (14-0).

Tanner’s second drive was the weird one at the end of the second half where PJ tried to run out the clock.

Third drive was a 3 and out, we passed twice and ran once.

Fourth drive was after the KO return, ended with a TD pass.

Fifth and sixth drives were the ones at the end of the game where pj was trying to run out the clock.

I don’t think PJ is any less conservative at the end of half and game with Athan.
 

Bob_Loblaw said:
I think it had more to do with Fleck being ultra conservative situationally.
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While not taking away from your point about having the lead, after the early season blowouts, any time Tanner was under center was a conservative situation for Fleck.
 

Bob_Loblaw said:
It was 7-0, then Tanner led them on a TD drive and PJ hit the breaks (in both halves).

On tanner’s first drive, we passed three times and ran once. It ended in a TD pass (14-0).

Tanner’s second drive was the weird one at the end of the second half where PJ tried to run out the clock.

Third drive was a 3 and out, we passed twice and ran once.

Fourth drive was after the KO return, ended with a TD pass.

Fifth and sixth drives were the ones at the end of the game where pj was trying to run out the clock.

I don’t think PJ is any less conservative at the end of half and game with Athan.
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OK
 

Bob_Loblaw said:
It was 7-0, then Tanner led them on a TD drive and PJ hit the breaks (in both halves).

On tanner’s first drive, we passed three times and ran once. It ended in a TD pass (14-0).

Tanner’s second drive was the weird one at the end of the second half where PJ tried to run out the clock.

Third drive was a 3 and out, we passed twice and ran once.

Fourth drive was after the KO return, ended with a TD pass.

Fifth and sixth drives were the ones at the end of the game where pj was trying to run out the clock.

I don’t think PJ is any less conservative at the end of half and game with Athan.
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Additionally in the 3rd quarter, Syracuse had the ball from 15:00 to 10:26 with a FG

3 and out by MN (which had a Brockington drop)

Syracuse got the ball at 8:55. They had the pick 6 and then a long FG drive. After a long KO return the Gophers offense got the ball back with 1:24 in the 3rd and threw for a TD.

MN only had the ball for around 3 mins in the 3rd and after the TD went into run the clock mode.
 

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