Wow: Kirk Ciarrocca Takes OC Job at Rutgers

[Six to Eight]

Surprised at some of the venom at Kirk C. here. Like jilted lovers. I mean, stability matters, but it's not like Kirk had that great of offenses.

If Simon doesn't get the job, it suggests to me that PJ was caught off guard by Kirk leaving. Which is "on him", just like Mike Sanford Jr.

 

[short ornery norwegian]

to reiterate what some have said:

Simon has been a co-OC and has called plays in 2 games. That is a fairly thin resume to be the OC at a P5 program. In that sense, even though he is the internal candidate, he is possibly the more risky choice.

If the Gophers go outside the program they would likely hire someone who has much more experience as an OC and play-caller - on paper, a safer choice.

And - Fleck to the best of my knowledge has always had an OC who is also the QB Coach.

So, if Simon becomes the OC, would he also be the QB Coach? He has no experience at that position.

that would also require a new WR coach to be hired.

so, weighing all the factors, I think it is less likely that Simon is the new full-time OC.

but I could be wrong.

 

[Ogee Ogilthorpe]

I have just ordered “How to be an Offensive Coordinator for Dummies”. I should be fully ready for the OC position at Minnesota by Tuesday. I could you use the pay raise.

You don't have very far to go to catch up really. Many are pining away for Simon to be the new OC and he's barely called one more game of plays than you have on your resume.

 

[hello-world]

Surprised at some of the venom at Kirk C. here. Like jilted lovers. I mean, stability matters, but it's not like Kirk had that great of offenses.

If Simon doesn't get the job, it suggests to me that PJ was caught off guard by Kirk leaving. Which is "on him", just like Mike Sanford Jr.

That 2019 offense was the best that I have ever seen at Minnesota and top ten nationally.

I hear y'all when you say that he had a couple of weapons but there are a lot of coordinators that go their entire careers without ever coaching an offense that is that good.

Yes 2022 was even worse than the Sanford years, but his offense has a very high ceiling when things get clicking. Putting together a top ten offense at Minnesota frankly should have earned a statue outside of the stadium. I didn't even think it was possible. Gopher fans spent the 30+ years before that getting told that offensive talent doesn't come to cold weather locations.

 

[tjgopher]

Stan the Caddy said "Kirk was fired because Franklin is a jack hole." And you replied: "Indeed. And, now KC is going back to work for a guy who has already fired him once before."

Stan ended his post by writing "careful who you work for."

I responded to that by writing: "Indeed. Now KC is going back to work for a guy who has already fired him once before."

See below:

********************************

Fair enough. I understand that perspective. Kirk was fired because Franklin is a jack hole. So in that case…careful who you work for.

Indeed. And, now KC is going back to work for a guy who has already fired him once before.
*********************************



It has nothing to do with the Franklin part of the quote. Not sure how that wasn't obvious, but sorry if it wasn't.

 

[Six to Eight]

Putting together a top ten offense at Minnesota frankly should have earned a statue outside of the stadium. I didn't even think it was possible.

I don't think Minnesota is an exception, and as fans, it's weak to qualify our success as "for Minnesota". We'll never be Michigan or OSU, but I don't agree that we should all be overjoyed with one great season, followed by multiple seasons where we struggled against anyone with a winning record. There are numerous examples of non-helmet school that catch lightning in a bottle for a single year.

Minnesota's program can be as good or better than Wisconsin and Iowa long term.

 

[Panthadad2]

That 2019 offense was the best that I have ever seen at Minnesota and top ten nationally.

I hear y'all when you say that he had a couple of weapons but there are a lot of coordinators that go their entire careers without ever coaching an offense that is that good.

Yes 2022 was even worse than the Sanford years, but his offense has a very high ceiling when things get clicking. Putting together a top ten offense at Minnesota frankly should have earned a statue outside of the stadium. I didn't even think it was possible. Gopher fans spent the 30+ years before that getting told that offensive talent doesn't come to cold weather locations.

Mason had at least 3 offenses that were comparable or better than 2019. In 2003, 2004, 2005. I’m too lazy to look before that. Wacker had some good offenses too. Defense had traditionally been the weak link at MN before PJ/Rossi and Kill/Claeys.

 

[tjgopher]

Not sure how Rutgers is able to pay that kind of money to their assistants but it isn't like we are offering up chump change to our coordinators.

Rutgers is reportedly paying KC $1.7m to be the OC, while at the same time still borrowing tens of millions of dollars from the general fund of the University AND the Big Ten to make ends meet. They will be paying on some of these loans for nearly a quarter century.

Read the excerpt below...absolutely, mind-numbingly crazy.


From a Nov 2022 Sports Biz Journal article linked here:

According to an analysis of Rutgers finances, athletics has drawn $216.7M “in subsidies” since joining the Big Ten and “nearly one-third” of the department expenditures “has been subsidized” with student fees, money from the general fund and from state support. Sargeant notes these figures “don’t include an additional” $100.8M that athletics has “borrowed from the university’s general fund” to cover operating costs since 2016. Documents also showed $48M borrowed from the conference in two other loans. In all according to documents, as of April 18, 2022, Rutgers has $58.5M in “external debt,” stemming from a $102M renovation of the football stadium and $167.5M internally. The department is paying on these loans through 2039 and 2048, respectively (Newark STAR-LEDGER, 11/18).

 

[60's Guy]

Kirk got paid $626,000 this past year. PJ got paid $5.1 million. PJ got a raise to $6.1 million. Kirk was going to get a raise to less than 1 million or $5 million less than PJ.
That could wear on you if you also do your job with handcuffs on. That’s a gigantic gap.

 

[NateDawgUM]

I can think of many things that are worth over a million dollars a year and none of them are Kirk Ciarrocca.

 

[Gopherchase]

That 2019 offense was the best that I have ever seen at Minnesota and top ten nationally.

I hear y'all when you say that he had a couple of weapons but there are a lot of coordinators that go their entire careers without ever coaching an offense that is that good.

Yes 2022 was even worse than the Sanford years, but his offense has a very high ceiling when things get clicking. Putting together a top ten offense at Minnesota frankly should have earned a statue outside of the stadium. I didn't even think it was possible. Gopher fans spent the 30+ years before that getting told that offensive talent doesn't come to cold weather locations

Dumb. If Mason could recruit and coach defense he’d still be here if he wanted he had some great offenses.

 

[Spoofin]

Surprised at some of the venom at Kirk C. here. Like jilted lovers.

That is nothing new. Just imagine what people would be saying if he took a shot at MN weather on his way out….

 

[Word]

Kirk got paid $626,000 this past year. PJ got paid $5.1 million. PJ got a raise to $6.1 million. Kirk was going to get a raise to less than 1 million or $5 million less than PJ.
That could wear on you if you also do your job with handcuffs on. That’s a gigantic gap.

Kirk should become a head coach if he doesn't like the gap.

 

[GoldGoldGold]

Said this last year and will say it again: nobody knows better than PJ whether Simon is ready to be an OC in the B1G. Being an OC is a lot more than calling plays. Gameplanning, practice planning, coaching multiple positions, managing a staff of offensive assistants, recruiting, etc. If Fleck hires Simon, he thinks he can handle all of the above. If not, he doesn't. Simple as that. I'm not saying Fleck would be 100% right in whatever decision he made, but those are the factors he'll be considering.

FTR, I have no preference either way and am just hoping for the best possible outcome. SUM-RTB-GG.

I think another one that rarely gets mentioned but is huge is play designing. Designing great plays and schemes are what differentiates a good OC from a great OC. KC was lacking in this area.

 

[60's Guy]

Kirk should become a head coach if he doesn't like the gap.

I agree and it’s probably similar across college football but dang that’s lopsided.
I’m guessing they both work 80 hours a week? And a million dollars a year is good money that most would die for. Just, it’s gotta come into some of these guys heads…he gets $5 million more than I do and…grumble grumble … my idea was $10 million times better than his. I know more about play calling than he does!
Think Carlos Correa at $30 million and Arraez at $1 million wins the batting title…. that’s gotta cross your mind?

Not saying it’s a factor in this situation. I Just discovered it’s so very lopsided.

 

[Panthadad2]

Kirk got paid $626,000 this past year. PJ got paid $5.1 million. PJ got a raise to $6.1 million. Kirk was going to get a raise to less than 1 million or $5 million less than PJ.
That could wear on you if you also do your job with handcuffs on. That’s a gigantic gap.

I believe there was another $300K in PSU money for Kirk last year.

 

[GopherWeatherGuy]

I agree and it’s probably similar across college football but dang that’s lopsided.
I’m guessing they both work 80 hours a week? And a million dollars a year is good money that most would die for. Just, it’s gotta come into some of these guys heads…he gets $5 million more than I do and…grumble grumble … my idea was $10 million times better than his. I know more about play calling than he does!
Think Carlos Correa at $30 million and Arraez at $1 million wins the batting title…. that’s gotta cross your mind?

Not saying it’s a factor in this situation. I Just discovered it’s so very lopsided.

This is like a lower level employee complaining they don’t make as much as the CEO…it’s nonsense

 

[Gophers_4life]

Stan ended his post by writing "careful who you work for."

I responded to that by writing: "Indeed. Now KC is going back to work for a guy who has already fired him once before."

See below:

********************************


Indeed. And, now KC is going back to work for a guy who has already fired him once before.
*********************************



It has nothing to do with the Franklin part of the quote. Not sure how that wasn't obvious, but sorry if it wasn't.

You're right.

I zoomed in on the part that caught my attention, and replied to that. That's my bad. Thanks for clarifying

 

[Some guy]

Good lord.....I like KC but I'm not sure he is worth anything close to 2 mil a year.

Coaching salaries are just insane with the way they have blown up and there doesn't seem to be an end in sight.

If we had two million a year, I would hope we would go get somebody better than KC

 

[Gophers_4life]

Rossi proved himself over multiple games after Smith was fired. Simon coached one game 3 years ago.

Bolded: that we know about.

And when you say "coached", the more correct thing is "called the plays". Agree that, as far as the public knows, that was just the bowl game against Auburn.

However, Simon (and Callahan, and the whole offensive staff for that matter) are always integral, every year, every week, in forming the game plan. The OC doesn't go off into a cave, have a fever dream, and emerge with the game plan.

In 2021, the offense suddenly got much better starting with the Iowa game.
In 2022, the offense suddenly got much better in the Wisconsin game.

A person, me in particular perhaps, will draw the conclusions that they want to make. I won't ask you to entertain them in the slightest, but hey, it's a free, anonymous, internet message board. YMMV

 

[Some guy]

Simon has been co-OC for three years. There's more to it than being the primary play-caller for one game.

Correct, and those three years have been largely mediocre IMO

 

[Tucker32]

Right, which is why nobody held PSU against him. But Rutgers? Minnesota should be able to hold on to any coach that gets an offer from Rutgers. If the goal was always for him to move on then whatever, but if Minnesota lost a bidding war to the Scarlett Knights then that's pretty pathetic.

Not really. It doesn't matter if it is Rutgers or Ohio State, if they paid $1.5-1.7 million PJ/Coyle probably decided they were overpaying, and didn't want to go that high. That's higher than all but 2 or 3 offensive coordinators get paid.

 

[Gophers_4life]

Rossi was given a several game interview to prove himself.

Yep, that is true.

If I had a magic wand, I would have forced Fleck to fire Sanford in the middle of the 2021 season, and promoted Simon to interim OC, in exactly the same fashion.

That's what should have happened.

Fleck wouldn't do that to his personal friend Sanford, so we are where we are now.

 

[Gophers_4life]

Correct, and those three years have been largely mediocre IMO

- position coach
- help form the game plan
- call the plays during the game.

One of these things is not like the others .....

 

[Some guy]

- position coach
- help form the game plan
- call the plays during the game.

One of these things is not like the others .....

There are multiple guys on staff who do 2 of those 3 things (every offensive position coach, every defensive position coach)

 

[Gophers_4life]

It will if be he is still the OC

He wouldn't be if 23 was bad, as you know.

Sanford only got more than one season because of covid.

 

[Tucker32]

I think it is likely that Fleck had more to do with the play calling in the two bowl games and developing the two 1st round WR draft picks than Simon. Fleck was a wide receiver and I have to believe he is closely involved with their development.

Then PJ is equally to blame for the terrible offense and lack of development of receivers in recent years. We have recruited one great receiver since PJ has been here, Bateman, and one high average in Autman-Bell. That's on PJ and Simon - not a great record to this point.

 

[Gophers_4life]

There are multiple guys on staff who do 2 of those 3 things (every offensive position coach, every defensive position coach)

Seems you're agreeing exactly with the point I just made, which nullifies your argument that being co-OC the last three years can be held against him.

 

[Some guy]

He wouldn't be if 23 was bad, as you know.

Sanford only got more than one season because of covid.

Lol what the hell are you even talking about.

You are now talking about hypothetically firing the guy you are slobbering over in 11 months because the offense was hypothetically bad next year

 

[Gophers_4life]

I don't agree. Rossi turned a failing defense into a very solid defense that pretty much saved the rest of the season for the Gophers. Whatever impact Simon had in the two bowl games in which he was interim OC doesn't compare with what Rossi accomplished as interim DC.

a) Why? Seems like an arbitrary distinction.

Why is a regular season game against Purdue more important than Outback Bowl against a highly rated (going into the game) SEC team?

b) That's that we, publicly, know of. I don't believe for a second that Sanford was calling plays towards the end of the 2021 season.