Ugh: Alvin Ellis May Re-Open Recruitment UPDATED 4/3: Ellis gets release from LOI

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underground629 said:
I wish that were true.

http://www.gophersports.com/sports/m-baskbl/spec-rel/072312aaa.html
http://www.twincities.com/ci_21139700/gophers-tubby-smith-receives-contract-extension-through-2016
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Yep; Teague got some credit for the Grant hiring at VCU because, even though he wasn't the A.D. at the time of signing, he was consulted about it. Here, Teague was announced as the new A.D. in April, took over the job on July 1 and Tubby signed his extension on 7/23.

Back to the Ellis & Foster saga..
 

You didn't respond to the rest of my post. I'll beat my head on this one too... do you agree that the coach is a top 2 reason why a 17/18 yr old commits to likely spending the next 4 yrs at a given school? If his main draw to MN is no longer here, why shouldn't he have the option to at least EXPLORE going to another school? You honestly think that he should first be forced to talk to a coach that he has zero relationship with?

I'm not quite understanding your example here. How often does a coach who has been in a program for at least a few yrs have a 7 player recruiting class? On top of that, how often do 7/7 players asked to be released? That's about as extreme of an example as you can get. I just don't think it's that applicable. Even in the worst case scenario, one year of a program being short on players or signing Spring recruits isn't that big of a deal, and it's something a program brings upon itself.

GopherJake said:
I feel like I'm beating my head against a wall on this.

How about NOBODY? Tell him he has to wait until the next coach is hired and he can speak to him about it. Look at it this way, if there was a class of 7 guys coming in and they all asked Teague for the release, should he grant them all and leave the coach with no players before the new coach has a chance to talk to any of them?

Bleed, are you saying there is a possibility that he actually HASN'T been granted the release? That would make a lot more sense to me.
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It's not like Tubby's contract was up. It's not like Tubby earned that ridiculous buyout.

GopherJake said:
By my count, Teague now owes us $1.8 million.

(Actually, don't you think it would have been a bit of a Richard move to not give him the extension after it sat "with the lawyers" for about 3 years?)
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GopherJake said:
By my count, Teague now owes us $1.8 million.

(Actually, don't you think it would have been a bit of a Richard move to not give him the extension after it sat "with the lawyers" for about 3 years?)
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At the risk of incurring the wrath of GW, I don't believe that if we had 'the lawyers' sit on the extension for another 9 months, we would have gotten away with not paying the increased buyout. Billy Gillespie never had a signed contract at UK. That didn't mean they didn't have to pay his buyout.
 


underground629 said:
do you agree that the coach is a top 2 reason why a 17/18 yr old commits to likely spending the next 4 yrs at a given school?
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Without question.

underground629 said:
If his main draw to MN is no longer here, why shouldn't he have the option to at least EXPLORE going to another school? You honestly think that he should first be forced to talk to a coach that he has zero relationship with?
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Yes. Two reasons.

1. He signed with the school, not with the coach. This plays out regularly throughout the country. Kids are not allowed a free transfer when their coach leaves. The school pays for the scholarship, not the coach. They might think they are signing up to play for a coach, but they aren't. They are signing up to play for a school.

2. It is not the ADs job; it is the head of the basketball program's job. They didn't have one? Well, they did ONE DAY LATER. What the hell was the rush for on Tegue's part? What cards did Ellis hold? Answer: None. He should have been told he will need to wait a few more days (at most).

underground629 said:
I'm not quite understanding your example here. How often does a coach who has been in a program for at least a few yrs have a 7 player recruiting class? On top of that, how often do 7/7 players asked to be released? That's about as extreme of an example as you can get. I just don't think it's that applicable. Even in the worst case scenario, one year of a program being short on players or signing Spring recruits isn't that big of a deal, and it's something a program brings upon itself.
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My example was, obviously, extreme to illustrate a point. Whatever the answer is for 7 players, in my opinion, is the same for one.

We can agree to disagree, but I think Teague, if he granted the release as reported - and without consulting Dick Pit - made a huge mistake.
 

Tubby's contract was in the works years before Teague arrived. Just a guess but I believe it is entirely possible that a binding verbal agreement had been reached between the parties regarding terms of the buyout clause a long time ago. Perhaps they were still negotiating other parts of the contract separate from the buyout clause - like salary for example.
 

Let's keep this thread about Ellis. There is an entire All Things Tubby thread that this discussion can move to. Any additional Tubby posts will be deleted.
 

Yes, he's technically signing up to play for a school, but if the school were the biggest reason for him coming, he never would've asked to get out of his LOI. He was coming to play for Tubby.

I see what you're saying about transferring but l think that's apples and oranges. Players transferring have already gotten at least one year of what they signed up for (playing under the expected coach) and the school has paid for tons of expenses for that player. We haven't paid for his education yet--I don't think he owes us anything since we no longer have Tubby, the main reason he wanted to come here.

Teague had more to do with Ellis signing here than Pitino. He employed the coach who recruited Ellis. I think it makes sense that he has the authority to release him.

I don't see how your example with 7 is the same as for one. Obviously the concept is, but the significance is soooo much different. As much as I'd like to see Ellis stay, he's only one player. It doesn't hurt the program that much. Recruits reopening their recruitment comes with firing a coach. That's just part of the tradeoff that every school deals with. I think your issue is more with the NCAA or situations like this in general--not Teague. I don't think it's very often that an AD forces a recruit to talk to the new coach before letting him out of his LOI.

GopherJake said:
Without question.

Yes. Two reasons.

1. He signed with the school, not with the coach. This plays out regularly throughout the country. Kids are not allowed a free transfer when their coach leaves. The school pays for the scholarship, not the coach. They might think they are signing up to play for a coach, but they aren't. They are signing up to play for a school.

2. It is not the ADs job; it is the head of the basketball program's job. They didn't have one? Well, they did ONE DAY LATER. What the hell was the rush for on Tegue's part? What cards did Ellis hold? Answer: None. He should have been told he will need to wait a few more days (at most).

My example was, obviously, extreme to illustrate a point. Whatever the answer is for 7 players, in my opinion, is the same for one.

We can agree to disagree, but I think Teague, if he granted the release as reported - and without consulting Dick Pit - made a huge mistake.
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Ellis just tweeted that he has 'like 24 offers on the table'. Assuming that's about basketball, I'd say we can cross him off the list and move on.
 







It's a Pig Man! said:
Because he posted about getting an offer from Baylor? If you follow the football side at all you must really hate Connor Mayes too.
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My opinion on Ellis isn't just based on this one tweet. He just always appears to be talking himself up.
 


In that same twitter conversation someone asks "no Minnesota" and he replied "naww". Not sure if that means the scholarship wasn't extended, or if he's not interested. Either way, looks like we won't be seeing him in Maroon and Gold.
 

I believe things will be changing around here. Ellis was yet another combo guard who can score but probably would not have been best used as a PG in the big ten. Just like Andre Hollins. I think Pitino wants to add a TRUE PG and Ellis isn't that. I wouldn't be surprised if Pitino just wasn't interested, and even if he was, Ellis does not fill a need this year and we may end up getting a better player in 2014.
 

jaymil said:
I believe things will be changing around here. Ellis was yet another combo guard who can score but probably would not have been best used as a PG in the big ten. Just like Andre Hollins. I think Pitino wants to add a TRUE PG and Ellis isn't that. I wouldn't be surprised if Pitino just wasn't interested, and even if he was, Ellis does not fill a need this year and we may end up getting a better player in 2014.
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I don't think anyone expected Ellis to play PG at all. He was always going to be a SG or a smaller slash SF.
 

Oh well, we are somewhat set at guard/wing next year with Dre/Austin/Coleman/Wally/Mav. I'd rather Pitino go after potential 1 year front court players like Buckles and Black. In fact I would love if he used our last 3 scholarships on Black, Buckles, and a Smith.

Then have something like this...
PG - Dre
SG - Austin
SF - Coleman
PF - Black
C - EE

Bench
Buggs
Buckles
Wally
Smith
Mav
 


burton34 said:
He seems totally full of himself. Good riddance.
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It's Twitter and Facebook world today. Everybody is full of themselves. I'd like to have Ellis as a Gopher.
 

And then there is this ... Sure hope Pitino has a plan here.

@Foster_34: Man I been waiting on this call from the new coach but I haven't got it. Feel like a indirect way of saying he don't want me!
 

scher215 said:
And then there is this ... Sure hope Pitino has a plan here.

@Foster_34: Man I been waiting on this call from the new coach but I haven't got it. Feel like a indirect way of saying he don't want me!
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Honestly, I can definitely see Pitino not wanting Foster. Not sure how many offers Foster would get on the open market, definitely not as many as Ellis.
 

MadtownGopher said:
Honestly, I can definitely see Pitino not wanting Foster. Not sure how many offers Foster would get on the open market, definitely not as many as Ellis.
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I could see it too. Unfortunately that's how things work sometimes.
 

Foster doesn't really fit the desired profile or needs of this team. It will be up to Foster to decide a direction. He might be a very good fit at Florida International or NDSU....
 

scher215 said:
And then there is this ... Sure hope Pitino has a plan here.

@Foster_34: Man I been waiting on this call from the new coach but I haven't got it. Feel like a indirect way of saying he don't want me!
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Either way, being left in the dark is kind of a bush league thing to do.
 

Yea I don't like that, too busy watchin Daddy to even call the recruits..
 

Maybe he hasn't watched film on him yet and doesn't know if he wants him? Can we really expect him to do a billion things at once? Should he call him and say, "I might want you, I might not. Not really sure yet. Okay, talk to you later."
 

GophersOnTheRise said:
Maybe he hasn't watched film on him yet and doesn't know if he wants him? Can we really expect him to do a billion things at once? Should he call him and say, "I might want you, I might not. Not really sure yet. Okay, talk to you later."
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Honestly, yes. That's exactly along the lines of what he should say. I haven't forgotten you, give me some time to take a look at your film.
 

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