Time to start looking fora new head coach

This is not a program that is coming off a scandal. Lil Ricky was hired to improve a program that Tubby had firmly planted in neutral. Lil Ricky needs to man up to the fact that he needs to get this team put Ws up and not moral victories.

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Pitino was damned if he did and damned if he didn't when he came to the U. He was saddled with extremely mediocre talent & most of that talent had another couple years of eligibility. I would have preferred he cut Dre Hollins, Mo Walker, Oto, Elliot, Buggs et al loose and just started from scratch, but he spent two years trying to plug those square pegs into round holes. What I'm getting at, is that this is essentially his first year with his recruits and they're very young, or inexperienced. Thankfully Buggs appears to be done and Morris/Joey are taking more of a a back seat to the younger guys. As I've said from the get-go, this season is about player development, not wins and losses.

Dorsey looks like he's progressing and will be a very good 4 year player. Mason is being game planned for and having the other teams best defender on him all the time, so he's had struggles, but he's handled that pretty well and has been forced into a bit of a leadership role that he may or may not be ready for. Overall, I'm happy with him & think he's also a very good 4 year player for us. McBrayer isn't as far along offensively, but does a nice job defensively, is very athletic and I see no reason to think he won't be a good player for us either. Ahmad Gilbert has shown some nice things lately, especially his understanding of the game and I'd much rather have him on the floor than Buggs. Murphy is going to get even better once he learns how to box out, put a hit on opposing players, use his strength rather than just out-jumping people for rebounds & play team defense. We really are just seeing the tip of his iceberg of talent. Bakary is getting there, slowly but surely. I'm sure Pitino would have loved to get Jalil Okafor, but what we could actually get was Bakary. Bakary needs constant basketball reps to up his court IQ and he needs to hit the weights hard. Especially his lower body. That said, I think Bakary has the potential to be a good player. Gaston might be a miss, but bigs tend to develop late. Maybe the light will go one for him at some point? If not, then he gets stuck behind Lynch & Bakary is is probably encouraged to move on. If that happens, we have the opportunity to recruit over him.

I don't even expect much next season. I figure all the new faces will take time to gel, but by season's end we should see it all coming together & perhaps even make a surprise run in the tourney? Fitz was very good as a Freshman at A & M, and if he can return to that form as a more mature player, we may have gotten a real steal. I forget the source, but have heard him referred to as the best player on the team in practices. Lynch will not wow us with his touch and skill, but he will provide a defensive presence and physicality that we are desperately missing right now. He should be a big upgrade if he can stay out of foul trouble. We also add Coffey, our first real superstar potential player, Michael Hurt a shooter that we desperately need & Eric Curry, another desperately needed big.

Firing the coach every 2-3 years is not going to make us any better. We're just going to have to endure this storm, if we want to get to the rainbow.

Very good post CRG. I completely agree with your assessment of the state of the program.

I'm not sure how easy it would have been to move on from the core group that was here when Pitino arrived. He would have been forced to sign even more stop-gap players in April. I'm not sure how much that would have advanced the program forward? Unless you are suggesting after year one?
 

Pitino was damned if he did and damned if he didn't when he came to the U. He was saddled with extremely mediocre talent & most of that talent had another couple years of eligibility. I would have preferred he cut Dre Hollins, Mo Walker, Oto, Elliot, Buggs et al loose and just started from scratch, but he spent two years trying to plug those square pegs into round holes. What I'm getting at, is that this is essentially his first year with his recruits and they're very young, or inexperienced. Thankfully Buggs appears to be done and Morris/Joey are taking more of a a back seat to the younger guys. As I've said from the get-go, this season is about player development, not wins and losses.

Dorsey looks like he's progressing and will be a very good 4 year player. Mason is being game planned for and having the other teams best defender on him all the time, so he's had struggles, but he's handled that pretty well and has been forced into a bit of a leadership role that he may or may not be ready for. Overall, I'm happy with him & think he's also a very good 4 year player for us. McBrayer isn't as far along offensively, but does a nice job defensively, is very athletic and I see no reason to think he won't be a good player for us either. Ahmad Gilbert has shown some nice things lately, especially his understanding of the game and I'd much rather have him on the floor than Buggs. Murphy is going to get even better once he learns how to box out, put a hit on opposing players, use his strength rather than just out-jumping people for rebounds & play team defense. We really are just seeing the tip of his iceberg of talent. Bakary is getting there, slowly but surely. I'm sure Pitino would have loved to get Jalil Okafor, but what we could actually get was Bakary. Bakary needs constant basketball reps to up his court IQ and he needs to hit the weights hard. Especially his lower body. That said, I think Bakary has the potential to be a good player. Gaston might be a miss, but bigs tend to develop late. Maybe the light will go one for him at some point? If not, then he gets stuck behind Lynch & Bakary is is probably encouraged to move on. If that happens, we have the opportunity to recruit over him.

I don't even expect much next season. I figure all the new faces will take time to gel, but by season's end we should see it all coming together & perhaps even make a surprise run in the tourney? Fitz was very good as a Freshman at A & M, and if he can return to that form as a more mature player, we may have gotten a real steal. I forget the source, but have heard him referred to as the best player on the team in practices. Lynch will not wow us with his touch and skill, but he will provide a defensive presence and physicality that we are desperately missing right now. He should be a big upgrade if he can stay out of foul trouble. We also add Coffey, our first real superstar potential player, Michael Hurt a shooter that we desperately need & Eric Curry, another desperately needed big.

Firing the coach every 2-3 years is not going to make us any better. We're just going to have to endure this storm, if we want to get to the rainbow.

Good analysis.

I hate to even post in the thread. Discussion of firing a coach in the middle of his 3rd year is just what people who watch sports and cannot stand to be disappointed do. Yes, the reality of hiring a young coach with little experience to compete in the BGT is looking us in the face. No, firing him only makes sense on a message board. The damage it would do to our national reputation is epic.

This is my 17th year with season tickets. At the beginning of the season I said that never had I been more concerned about the success of a season and yet very positive about the future of the program. And so it is.
 

Pitino was damned if he did and damned if he didn't when he came to the U. He was saddled with extremely mediocre talent & most of that talent had another couple years of eligibility. I would have preferred he cut Dre Hollins, Mo Walker, Oto, Elliot, Buggs et al loose and just started from scratch, but he spent two years trying to plug those square pegs into round holes. What I'm getting at, is that this is essentially his first year with his recruits and they're very young, or inexperienced. Thankfully Buggs appears to be done and Morris/Joey are taking more of a a back seat to the younger guys. As I've said from the get-go, this season is about player development, not wins and losses.

Dorsey looks like he's progressing and will be a very good 4 year player. Mason is being game planned for and having the other teams best defender on him all the time, so he's had struggles, but he's handled that pretty well and has been forced into a bit of a leadership role that he may or may not be ready for. Overall, I'm happy with him & think he's also a very good 4 year player for us. McBrayer isn't as far along offensively, but does a nice job defensively, is very athletic and I see no reason to think he won't be a good player for us either. Ahmad Gilbert has shown some nice things lately, especially his understanding of the game and I'd much rather have him on the floor than Buggs. Murphy is going to get even better once he learns how to box out, put a hit on opposing players, use his strength rather than just out-jumping people for rebounds & play team defense. We really are just seeing the tip of his iceberg of talent. Bakary is getting there, slowly but surely. I'm sure Pitino would have loved to get Jalil Okafor, but what we could actually get was Bakary. Bakary needs constant basketball reps to up his court IQ and he needs to hit the weights hard. Especially his lower body. That said, I think Bakary has the potential to be a good player. Gaston might be a miss, but bigs tend to develop late. Maybe the light will go one for him at some point? If not, then he gets stuck behind Lynch & Bakary is is probably encouraged to move on. If that happens, we have the opportunity to recruit over him.

I don't even expect much next season. I figure all the new faces will take time to gel, but by season's end we should see it all coming together & perhaps even make a surprise run in the tourney? Fitz was very good as a Freshman at A & M, and if he can return to that form as a more mature player, we may have gotten a real steal. I forget the source, but have heard him referred to as the best player on the team in practices. Lynch will not wow us with his touch and skill, but he will provide a defensive presence and physicality that we are desperately missing right now. He should be a big upgrade if he can stay out of foul trouble. We also add Coffey, our first real superstar potential player, Michael Hurt a shooter that we desperately need & Eric Curry, another desperately needed big.

Firing the coach every 2-3 years is not going to make us any better. We're just going to have to endure this storm, if we want to get to the rainbow.

Well stated; I think people tend to forget we are only a .570 team historically.

If we want to continue that .570 then we may want to try someone else out.

However, if we want to improve and move to a different tier; we have to do that hard work. That includes enduring some tough seasons. So far, it has not even been that bad. If people want evidence of Richard's potential, look to the first season. He set the record for wins sans Clem. Folks seem to forget we poached Kentucky's coach, and he didn't win 25 for us; Give the kid some time to learn how it's done.
 


This is not a program that is coming off a scandal. Lil Ricky was hired to improve a program that Tubby had firmly planted in neutral. Lil Ricky needs to man up to the fact that he needs to get this team put Ws up and not moral victories.

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Actually this is a program that came off a scandal. The scandal was that the previous coach stopped recruiting with any vigor at all about two years before he got axed. What was left for Pitino were the fumes of days gone by. Pitino's biggest error was shooting for the moon in his first recruiting class and having to come in late on plan B players. He corrected that in his second full class and we have the beginnings of something good- but it will require patience. Yesterday was progress.
 

Actually this is a program that came off a scandal. The scandal was that the previous coach stopped recruiting with any vigor at all about two years before he got axed. What was left for Pitino were the fumes of days gone by. Pitino's biggest error was shooting for the moon in his first recruiting class and having to come in late on plan B players. He corrected that in his second full class and we have the beginnings of something good- but it will require patience. Yesterday was progress.
Actually that is scandalous, not an NCAA scandal where we lose resource space for competition, aka scholarships available. It is more an indictment of the school administration that they motivate coaches to fill scholarships with players who are the best talent. That says the school administration would hire less qualified instructors and researchers to staff their educational departments as well.

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Actually that is scandalous, not an NCAA scandal where we lose resource space for competition, aka scholarships available. It is more an indictment of the school administration that they do not motivate coaches to fill scholarships with players who are the best talent. That says the school administration would hire less qualified instructors and researchers to staff their educational departments as well.

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I need to clarify this since this seems to be the only way to edit from mobile via Tapatalk app. See above bolder efit.

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Actually this is a program that came off a scandal. The scandal was that the previous coach stopped recruiting with any vigor at all about two years before he got axed. What was left for Pitino were the fumes of days gone by. Pitino's biggest error was shooting for the moon in his first recruiting class and having to come in late on plan B players. He corrected that in his second full class and we have the beginnings of something good- but it will require patience. Yesterday was progress.

Oh, gads, now we're reaching for straws.
 



Very good post CRG. I completely agree with your assessment of the state of the program.

I'm not sure how easy it would have been to move on from the core group that was here when Pitino arrived. He would have been forced to sign even more stop-gap players in April. I'm not sure how much that would have advanced the program forward? Unless you are suggesting after year one?

100%. He couldn't get rid of all those players so we had to ride it out and thus I really look at this year as year one.
 

Ok, this post is going to go hilariously far into the future and also may take a pessimistic look at future years. I will also add I am not on the Fire Pitino bandwagon.

Year 1: Not terrible. Hard to give a pass/fail grade with turnover and what we know happened after.
Year 2: Disappointing.
Year 3: Disappointing, though the roster hit rock bottom. Let's assume we finish 5-13 with a not good, not bad finish.

Year 4: OK, let's say Coffey looks pretty good but the team still underwhelms a bit due to still being pretty young. 7-11 conference and NIT.

Do you give the keys to a coach that has generally underwhelmed for your team generally over 4 years with a lot of juniors/seniors and a sophomore Coffey?

Say you do, now it's all in for year 5. What's your criteria for fire/keep? Maybe you sneak into the tournament. Yay, finally made it. However, you basically are starting over in the frontcourt.

I guess my final question is...if we don't exceed expectations over the next few years, where do we draw the line and maybe have to have a transition year as we are "on the rise" from a bottoming out scenario that Pitino kind of created for himself?
 

Actually that is scandalous, not an NCAA scandal where we lose resource space for competition, aka scholarships available. It is more an indictment of the school administration that they motivate coaches to fill scholarships with players who are the best talent. That says the school administration would hire less qualified instructors and researchers to staff their educational departments as well.

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So what's your solution?
 

It is an option that cannot be totally dismissed at this point. I think this team will be lucky to win 5 B1G Conference games this year. I question just how much additional damage it would do since we seem to be rapidly approaching a "burn it to the ground" point with this program.

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We would be the laughing stock of basketball if we fired Pitino mid-season of year three. Who do you envision wanting this job? Isn't the harsh reality that this isn't a great job why we had to roll the dice on an up and comer like Pitino in the first place? The job would be far less attractive if we fired Pitino now than it was he was hired. Now who you gonna get as coach?

Who cares how many games we win this season? Stop torturing yourself. The young guys are gonna play & take their lumps. I want to see player development, roles being established/embraced & effort.
 



Ok, this post is going to go hilariously far into the future and also may take a pessimistic look at future years. I will also add I am not on the Fire Pitino bandwagon.

Year 1: Not terrible. Hard to give a pass/fail grade with turnover and what we know happened after.
Year 2: Disappointing.
Year 3: Disappointing, though the roster hit rock bottom. Let's assume we finish 5-13 with a not good, not bad finish.

Year 4: OK, let's say Coffey looks pretty good but the team still underwhelms a bit due to still being pretty young. 7-11 conference and NIT.

Do you give the keys to a coach that has generally underwhelmed for your team generally over 4 years with a lot of juniors/seniors and a sophomore Coffey?

Say you do, now it's all in for year 5. What's your criteria for fire/keep? Maybe you sneak into the tournament. Yay, finally made it. However, you basically are starting over in the frontcourt.

I guess my final question is...if we don't exceed expectations over the next few years, where do we draw the line and maybe have to have a transition year as we are "on the rise" from a bottoming out scenario that Pitino kind of created for himself?


Okay, I have several responses to this. Within about a month or two of the coaching switch, the lack of success this season was practically already slated.

Reason #1: the existing freshman class was pretty horrendous (forgetting for a moment that they all, sans Buggs, transferred anyways). All were maybe one tool players with some major deficiencies. None have gone on to set the world on fire anywhere else, so I'm going to neglect the fact that they aren't on the team anymore.

Reason #2: we lost Ellis and Foster almost immediately. Forget their skill level and potential. That was a whole freshman class. They would be upper classmen with several years in this system. It was way too late to replace them with even the same caliber of incoming freshman at that point in the year (April or May?). Some will cry conspiracy theory but I'm not going to hold pitino accountable for losing recruits that weren't his. It was the timing of the switched that caused this.

Reason #3: Pitino's high profile recruits left us as bridesmaids. Pitino obviously aimed too high given his results, but we were all pumped that he could attract their attention. He's actually signed some at this point, but it was clear after this first failure hat pitino needed to prove it on the court before he would coup that talent. Several recruits near that caliber (coffee, Dorsey, curry, Murphy) have been satisfied enough with Pitino to sign.

I haven't read this entire thread, but I can't be the only one who saw the writing on the wall.... So while I'm not happy with the way the team is performing now, I'm not surprised and I don't blame Pitino for failing to sign two classes worth of top tier guys within 2 months of his hire.

Also, please don't judge what they front court will look like in year 5. There is plenty of time before that and plenty of other fish to fry.




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We would be the laughing stock of basketball if we fired Pitino mid-season of year three. Who do you envision wanting this job? Isn't the harsh reality that this isn't a great job why we had to roll the dice on an up and comer like Pitino in the first place? The job would be far less attractive if we fired Pitino now than it was he was hired. Now who you gonna get as coach?

Who cares how many games we win this season? Stop torturing yourself. The young guys are gonna play & take their lumps. I want to see player development, roles being established/embraced & effort.
And we're not a laughingstock now?

I bet Jim Peterson wouldbake this job NQA.

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Jim Peterson would be able to deal with this program easily.

Unless Lil Ricky gets more hammer and less velvet glove he'll be out faster than you can say "Huh?".

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Jim Peterson? Who's he?

There's a Jim Petersen that used to play for the Gophers.

And are you really advocating for Petersen as Gophers coach?

Just curious.
 

This thread and the gopher hole in general have jumped the shark. You all are running out of material. I'll be reading post game recaps from the guys I like reading from along with ss, Nadine and the other gopher hole staff posts for the remainder of the year. Some of you are whacked.
 

And we're not a laughingstock now?

I bet Jim Peterson wouldbake this job NQA.

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Jim Petersen? Seriously? A WNBA assistant with no college coaching experience, no recruiting connections or staff to bring with him? If that's your plan "A", I'll just ride it out with Pitino, lol.
 

Jim Petersen? Seriously? A WNBA assistant with no college coaching experience, no recruiting connections or staff to bring with him? If that's your plan "A", I'll just ride it out with Pitino, lol.
Based on Lil Ricky's recruiting job so far, Jim Peterson would be a push. How do you know that JP would not have any connections? Peterson would do more with less whereas Lil Ricky has done less with more.

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Based on Lil Ricky's recruiting job so far, Jim Peterson would be a push. How do you know that JP would not have any connections? Peterson would do more with less whereas Lil Ricky has done less with more.

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I really hope you are a Vikings or Packers fan and started drinking early today.
 

Based on Lil Ricky's recruiting job so far, Jim Peterson would be a push. How do you know that JP would not have any connections? Peterson would do more with less whereas Lil Ricky has done less with more.

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Pitino just landed a top-20 recruiting class. Jim Petersen would just walk in and match that? Connections? He's never been a college coach, what recruiting connections do you think he has? He hasn't even coached men since at least 2007.
 

I really hope you are a Vikings or Packers fan and started drinking early today.
Sober as a judge Vikings fan. Tell me that Lil Ricky hasn't done less with more. I want him to leave and expose the weak willed administration of the U because of it. The administration loves to make it more difficult to have winning sports programs which would raise the profile of the University.

If you are not thinking two or three steps ahead of what the departure of Lil Ricky would mean, then you must like having an administration that turns down money.

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Time to start looking for a new Ewert86PC.............
 

why has the Athletic Village taken twelve-plus years to break ground?

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Ummm....because Pitino is a terrible coach, right?
Well he IS only the second basketball coach to whom the facility was promised. There could be more basketball coaches to whom the administration could make unfulfilled promises.

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Well he IS only the second basketball coach to whom the facility was promised. There could be more basketball coaches to whom the administration could make unfulfilled promises.

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Jim Petersen would get 'er done.
 

So fire the coach mid-season in year 3?

I would not support that, but I would have no problem letting him go at that end of this season if there is no visible improvement. Sometimes you need to admit that it is a mistake. Iowa faced the same thing with Lickliter and he actually had a decent resume with Butler (won national coach of the year) before Iowa hired him and then bombed. After only 3 years they canned him and hired McCaffery.
 




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