This roster is not bad

[Wet_Blanket_Guy]

I am factoring in improvement by our sophomores to be. Payne is going to be a beast. Carrington was injured for half the year. JOJ in the minutes he had was more efficient than Battle and shows signs of being a kid that might be coached into being and excellent defender because he is quick and athletic. Every shot JOJ took was worth 1.3 points- every shot Battle took was worth 1 point, actually a little under that.

I think the roster can be very competitive with the following three things happening
- add a guard who is a good rotation player (fits in the top 8)
- at least one of the combo of Ihnen and Fox returns to full health and stays that way
- reasonable to above average improvement by the returning players- which means that the coaches are teaching the right things

Let me preface this by saying I think Payne will be a beast around the rim by the time he is a SR, an absolute force (like Gary Trent "Shaq of the Mac"). But my question; why does everyone think his progression will be linear? Maybe he caught some teams by surprise last year with the lack of film on him and his overpowering raw power / big body. Now, real B10 coaches will have a year of film on him. We may actually see a dip in production from Payne, but that doesn't mean he isn't improving, it's just that teams are throwing different defensive schemes at him this year.

BGA - this isn't a direct response to you, I just saw an opening for the question about linear progression and how it aligns to people's expectations when they say things like "Payne will be on the edge of B10 All-conference". Guys on the edge or on all-conference are putting up like 17 & 8 in the C/F positions:

2022-23 1st Team: Edey (22 & 13) / Tracye Jackson-Davis (21 & 11) | 2nd Team: Dickinson (18.5 & 9) / Derrick Walker (14 & 7 *4 asts a game)
2021-22: 1st Team: Cockburn (21 & 11) / Murray (24 & 9) | 2nd Team: Trayce Jackson-Davis (18.3 & 8) / Edey (14.4 & 7.7), Dickinson (18.6 & 8.6)
2020-21: 1st Team: Garza (24 & 9) Cockburn (18 & 10) / Trevion Williams (16 & 9) | 2nd Team: Trayce Jackson-Davis (19.1 & 9), Dickinson (14.1 & 7.4), Franz Wagner (12.5 & 7)
2019-20 1st Team: Garza (24 & 10), Jalen Smith (16 & 11) | 2nd Team Oturu (20 & 11), Xavier Tillman (14 & 10), Kaleb Wesson (14 & 9)
2018-19 1st Team: Bruno Fernando (14 & 11), Ethan Happ (17 & 10) | 2nd Team Jordan: Murphy (14 & 11)
2017-18 2nd Team: Moe Wagner (15 & 7), Ethan Happ (18 & 8)
2016-17: 1st Team: Caleb Swanigan (19 & 13) , Ethan Happ (14 & 9)

 

[The SF Rock]

Let me preface this by saying I think Payne will be a beast around the rim by the time he is a SR, an absolute force (like Gary Trent "Shaq of the Mac"). But my question; why does everyone think his progression will be linear? Maybe he caught some teams by surprise last year with the lack of film on him and his overpowering raw power / big body. Now, real B10 coaches will have a year of film on him. We may actually see a dip in production from Payne, but that doesn't mean he isn't improving, it's just that teams are throwing different defensive schemes at him this year.

BGA - this isn't a direct response to you, I just saw an opening for the question about linear progression and how it aligns to people's expectations when they say things like "Payne will be on the edge of B10 All-conference". Guys on the edge or on all-conference are putting up like 17 & 8 in the C/F positions:

2022-23 1st Team: Edey (22 & 13) / Tracye Jackson-Davis (21 & 11) | 2nd Team: Dickinson (18.5 & 9) / Derrick Walker (14 & 7 *4 asts a game)
2021-22: 1st Team: Cockburn (21 & 11) / Murray (24 & 9) | 2nd Team: Trayce Jackson-Davis (18.3 & 8) / Edey (14.4 & 7.7), Dickinson (18.6 & 8.6)
2020-21: 1st Team: Garza (24 & 9) Cockburn (18 & 10) / Trevion Williams (16 & 9) | 2nd Team: Trayce Jackson-Davis (19.1 & 9), Dickinson (14.1 & 7.4), Franz Wagner (12.5 & 7)
2019-20 1st Team: Garza (24 & 10), Jalen Smith (16 & 11) | 2nd Team Oturu (20 & 11), Xavier Tillman (14 & 10), Kaleb Wesson (14 & 9)
2018-19 1st Team: Bruno Fernando (14 & 11), Ethan Happ (17 & 10) | 2nd Team Jordan: Murphy (14 & 11)
2017-18 2nd Team: Moe Wagner (15 & 7), Ethan Happ (18 & 8)
2016-17: 1st Team: Caleb Swanigan (19 & 13) , Ethan Happ (14 & 9)

You give us a lot to look forward to with Payne.

 

[Mulligan]

I'm not sure you really responded to @Gophers7633 . He mentioned hiring a "competent" head coach as a means to prevent the roster churn that bga was predicting.

Your post is more about buyout (nothing to do with existing players leaving/staying), salary for a new coach (again, not related to players staying/leaving), and you talk about what recruits might think of the barn, which again, isn't related to players staying/leaving.

You mentioned NIL, and that is the one thing that affects players staying/leaving, but that's an issue even if we keep Ben.

Sounds like you just didn't like @Gophers7633 post?

My fault that I didn't make my main point clear enough. All of those issues that I mentioned are reasons why it's going to be very hard to get someone who is a good bet to turn this thing around. There isn't the will to pay enough money for a sure thing, or even for a competent coach. A coach like that will have other options; sort of like guards that we desperately want and we're not even in on the top ones in the portal. Then you're back to hoping you get lucky. Nothing to do with liking a post--trying to point out it's not as simple as fire Ben.

 

[Dakota2]

The culture I have heard about here at MN under cbj would never allow selfishness to be above teamwork.

Who told you about? A guy in a matching clown suit?

 

[Dakota2]

No He is diffident.

Much like the proverbial blind squirrel, here you are right. After his first season here Battle had more juice than his coach. Henley was a different story. He was a freshman. Ben benched him many times for Samuels. Henley learned and got better.

 

[Dakota2]

Then you have no reason to criticize those of us that look at the roster filled with unknowns and think "good god this looks like trouble". Leave out the fringe on either side of the argument most of us are saying the same thing, just some of you look at the potential while others look at what is inherently lacking.

It kind of reminds me of the debate over Dylan Wright right after he left. A lot of people saw how he had all the measurables and showed flashes of skill and ability and really thought the loss was a huge deal. Others looked at what his replacement would have to do and saw that despite all the potential the truth is his career was rather pedestrian.

Look I am usually the "hope springs eternal" guy...but I need something to grab onto when you are trying to find hope coming off a disaster of a season. Hype and such is fun, but I also remember when every offseason Jerry Kill would tell us how great his incoming WRs were or all the work Mitch did to improve as a QB. I remember the basketball and football recruiting experts talking up the skills of guys none of us have ever seen or ever heard of as the missing link that would get us to the next level and I would take it for what it is worth. But we have now gone past that at this point because most of the guys being hyped up chose to go elsewhere so now we are so desperate to find hope that we have to pretend the lineup we thought was inadequate is actually not inadequate...that is some Sid Hartman level cope.

The one positive you can bank is that Payne, JOJ, and Carrington will be better. They all have Big Ten experience.

 

[bga1]

Let me preface this by saying I think Payne will be a beast around the rim by the time he is a SR, an absolute force (like Gary Trent "Shaq of the Mac"). But my question; why does everyone think his progression will be linear? Maybe he caught some teams by surprise last year with the lack of film on him and his overpowering raw power / big body. Now, real B10 coaches will have a year of film on him. We may actually see a dip in production from Payne, but that doesn't mean he isn't improving, it's just that teams are throwing different defensive schemes at him this year.

BGA - this isn't a direct response to you, I just saw an opening for the question about linear progression and how it aligns to people's expectations when they say things like "Payne will be on the edge of B10 All-conference". Guys on the edge or on all-conference are putting up like 17 & 8 in the C/F positions:

2022-23 1st Team: Edey (22 & 13) / Tracye Jackson-Davis (21 & 11) | 2nd Team: Dickinson (18.5 & 9) / Derrick Walker (14 & 7 *4 asts a game)
2021-22: 1st Team: Cockburn (21 & 11) / Murray (24 & 9) | 2nd Team: Trayce Jackson-Davis (18.3 & 8) / Edey (14.4 & 7.7), Dickinson (18.6 & 8.6)
2020-21: 1st Team: Garza (24 & 9) Cockburn (18 & 10) / Trevion Williams (16 & 9) | 2nd Team: Trayce Jackson-Davis (19.1 & 9), Dickinson (14.1 & 7.4), Franz Wagner (12.5 & 7)
2019-20 1st Team: Garza (24 & 10), Jalen Smith (16 & 11) | 2nd Team Oturu (20 & 11), Xavier Tillman (14 & 10), Kaleb Wesson (14 & 9)
2018-19 1st Team: Bruno Fernando (14 & 11), Ethan Happ (17 & 10) | 2nd Team Jordan: Murphy (14 & 11)
2017-18 2nd Team: Moe Wagner (15 & 7), Ethan Happ (18 & 8)
2016-17: 1st Team: Caleb Swanigan (19 & 13) , Ethan Happ (14 & 9)

Sure I could see that progression with Payne. Good info. Thanks!

 

[Dakota2]

Prove it.

How, other than reading the threads?

 

[bga1]

Well you also said this roster isnt bad so...



(I must have missed the significant improvement part my bad)

I actually said 7-8 wins with 7 being borderline. That would be significantly better. Good enough to keep the job? I don't know.

 

[bga1]

Maybe semantics but pessimistic attitude driven by assuming coach is incompetent is based on measurable results so far. It’s not being pulled out of thin air or simply being hostile towards Ben. I can honestly say that I’m having a hard time seeing any coach get this collection of players into the top half of the league.

Stay optimistic for both of us.

I feel like Wisconsin coaches do it year after year. I always think that their talent is gone and then....

 

[formerlybis]

Let me preface this by saying I think Payne will be a beast around the rim by the time he is a SR, an absolute force (like Gary Trent "Shaq of the Mac"). But my question; why does everyone think his progression will be linear? Maybe he caught some teams by surprise last year with the lack of film on him and his overpowering raw power / big body. Now, real B10 coaches will have a year of film on him. We may actually see a dip in production from Payne, but that doesn't mean he isn't improving, it's just that teams are throwing different defensive schemes at him this year.

BGA - this isn't a direct response to you, I just saw an opening for the question about linear progression and how it aligns to people's expectations when they say things like "Payne will be on the edge of B10 All-conference". Guys on the edge or on all-conference are putting up like 17 & 8 in the C/F positions:

2022-23 1st Team: Edey (22 & 13) / Tracye Jackson-Davis (21 & 11) | 2nd Team: Dickinson (18.5 & 9) / Derrick Walker (14 & 7 *4 asts a game)
2021-22: 1st Team: Cockburn (21 & 11) / Murray (24 & 9) | 2nd Team: Trayce Jackson-Davis (18.3 & 8) / Edey (14.4 & 7.7), Dickinson (18.6 & 8.6)
2020-21: 1st Team: Garza (24 & 9) Cockburn (18 & 10) / Trevion Williams (16 & 9) | 2nd Team: Trayce Jackson-Davis (19.1 & 9), Dickinson (14.1 & 7.4), Franz Wagner (12.5 & 7)
2019-20 1st Team: Garza (24 & 10), Jalen Smith (16 & 11) | 2nd Team Oturu (20 & 11), Xavier Tillman (14 & 10), Kaleb Wesson (14 & 9)
2018-19 1st Team: Bruno Fernando (14 & 11), Ethan Happ (17 & 10) | 2nd Team Jordan: Murphy (14 & 11)
2017-18 2nd Team: Moe Wagner (15 & 7), Ethan Happ (18 & 8)
2016-17: 1st Team: Caleb Swanigan (19 & 13) , Ethan Happ (14 & 9)

Thanks for putting that together.

None of the 4 All-B1G Cs will be back (assuming no Dickinson), and none of the returning players are currently at the level we've seen over the last 3 seasons (Payne, Dainja, Omaruyi, Crowl, Okpara, Reese, Nicholson, Furst). Indiana is bringing in a transfer who was a high-level recruit who struggled at Oregon (Ware), while Mich, Iowa, Neb, and PSU also have transfers-in. MSU has a bunch of guys, but probably no all-league C, at least on paper (they are going to be talented and deep everywhere else, though).

So, the point of this is that Payne may indeed be at the edge of all-B1G because it's no longer a position full of superstars in the league. It's actually a pretty good group, though - just not any obvious choice above everyone else.

 

[bleedsmaroonandgold]

I'm not sensing a lot of confidence on this board that we build off the momentum from our first round BTT win last year.

 

[JZABR]

Would feel better with one more proven ball handler in the mix but agree that fully healthy this roster has some potential.

Lots of unknowns heading into the season so impossible to know what the end result will be. Will probably need almost everything to break right in order to see any sort of significant improvement (Mitchell being an upgrade over Cooper, the sophomores continuing their development, Fox/Ihnen healthy and in the mix, and the wildcards of Betts/Christie able to contribute as well). That is a lot to ask but contrary to what some around here want to believe it isn't impossible.

I think Fox is someone who could surprise alot of people. Had alot of offers coming from DII and has just had bad luck with the injuries

 

[skiumah1]

Let me preface this by saying I think Payne will be a beast around the rim by the time he is a SR, an absolute force (like Gary Trent "Shaq of the Mac"). But my question; why does everyone think his progression will be linear? Maybe he caught some teams by surprise last year with the lack of film on him and his overpowering raw power / big body. Now, real B10 coaches will have a year of film on him. We may actually see a dip in production from Payne, but that doesn't mean he isn't improving, it's just that teams are throwing different defensive schemes at him this year.

BGA - this isn't a direct response to you, I just saw an opening for the question about linear progression and how it aligns to people's expectations when they say things like "Payne will be on the edge of B10 All-conference". Guys on the edge or on all-conference are putting up like 17 & 8 in the C/F positions:

2022-23 1st Team: Edey (22 & 13) / Tracye Jackson-Davis (21 & 11) | 2nd Team: Dickinson (18.5 & 9) / Derrick Walker (14 & 7 *4 asts a game)
2021-22: 1st Team: Cockburn (21 & 11) / Murray (24 & 9) | 2nd Team: Trayce Jackson-Davis (18.3 & 8) / Edey (14.4 & 7.7), Dickinson (18.6 & 8.6)
2020-21: 1st Team: Garza (24 & 9) Cockburn (18 & 10) / Trevion Williams (16 & 9) | 2nd Team: Trayce Jackson-Davis (19.1 & 9), Dickinson (14.1 & 7.4), Franz Wagner (12.5 & 7)
2019-20 1st Team: Garza (24 & 10), Jalen Smith (16 & 11) | 2nd Team Oturu (20 & 11), Xavier Tillman (14 & 10), Kaleb Wesson (14 & 9)
2018-19 1st Team: Bruno Fernando (14 & 11), Ethan Happ (17 & 10) | 2nd Team Jordan: Murphy (14 & 11)
2017-18 2nd Team: Moe Wagner (15 & 7), Ethan Happ (18 & 8)
2016-17: 1st Team: Caleb Swanigan (19 & 13) , Ethan Happ (14 & 9)

Impressive data pull. Interesting to look at the names. Big-time players.

 

[60's Guy]

You started by saying that you knew with certainty that the roster IS bad. Then you said it would be improved IF. I don't differ with you that much- I just plan on waiting to see if IF pans out before I vent a spleen complaining about what IS.

I will say this: Most all of the pessimism here is based on the idea that the coach IS incompetent. If this roster were next year's roster for one of the better coaches in the Big Ten, the same people would be saying that the coach WILL find a way to make them into a good club. I hope that Ben finds the way this year.

At this point we have way too many unknowns to know if we have a good roster.
We could be alright but any outsider would pick us last based on the things known.
We don't know how these guys look on the court, what have we got in Ihnen and Fox?
How do Christie and Betts look? Is Jack Wilson anything but a practice player? Can Mitchell play at this level? Is he capable of making this his team and be the leader?
It is not automatic that Payne, Carrington, and JOJ are just going to improve...players yoyo often in their development.
We have the same coaches. We did things differently in year 2 than year 1. Year 2 we almost never ran....year one we scored on transition opportunities. Year one we had backdoors, cuts to the hoop etc, smart plays....it appears it was just the players and not the coaching. Our defense was not good...how is it going to improve in year 3?
What will Ben emphasize in year 3? We do not have the players to run unless Fox and Ihnen are gazelles. But do we have the guards to run even if that were true?
Can anybody shoot? We need another guard for sure. Who we gonna add?

My point...we ain't gonna know until about 3 or 4 non conference games in. Look, Ben and Thorson know more about Gopher basketball than we do...they see these guys, they watch em, talk to em. They ain't dumb. They'll have a plan. Last season got derailed by injuries...we know Ben was very high on Ihnen...his injury changed the course....then Battle couldn't practice.
Garcia started very slow and hobbled ...whatever the hope was it didn't work. Seems like almost a guarantee those two guys will coach better....have a better plan. They have to know what went wrong....how the vision became unrecognizable. I definitely have faith they'll coach better in year 3. We just don't know if we have enough compatible parts to be a Big Ten competitive team.
There is too much we don't know to argue now if we are gonna be improved.

 

[Dave H]

I actually said 7-8 wins with 7 being borderline. That would be significantly better. Good enough to keep the job? I don't know.

The only way I can see that being enough is if they are spread out and the play at the end of the season is way better than it was at the beginning. You can sell hope off of that (not saying the school should agree) and maybe parlay it to another year if your recruiting class is looking good.

 

[Dave H]

I think Fox is someone who could surprise alot of people. Had alot of offers coming from DII and has just had bad luck with the injuries

I don't think you can really count on anyone who hasn't played in 2 years and when he last played was a D2 guy.

 

[bc2211]

This thread seems like such a strange thing to be talking about at this point in the year. Those of you who want Ben fired, it's not going to happen prior to the coming year. What's the point in debating that? I have struggled with a lot of Ben's first two years, but as a fan I would love to see the team do really well this year. If it does, great, there is hope. If it doesn't, then Ben probably won't be here. At this point all you can do is let it play out.

Debate Williams Arena if you want (which when you know recruits they don't dislike and many really like - they are much more concerned about practice facilities where they spend the majority of their time, which they love) or NIL, but talking about if Ben should be fired now - I don't get it.

It’s the nature of the April in portal era - teams have a chance to jockey for assets, and so far our results are as uninspiring as our on the court records.

 

[bc2211]

A lot of the disorganized offense was do to Battle's selfish play. There is no ball movement when one guy is forcing long threes early in the clock. That is effectively a turnover.

A live ball turnover, no less.

 

[MNVCGUY]

Then you have no reason to criticize those of us that look at the roster filled with unknowns and think "good god this looks like trouble". Leave out the fringe on either side of the argument most of us are saying the same thing, just some of you look at the potential while others look at what is inherently lacking.

It kind of reminds me of the debate over Dylan Wright right after he left. A lot of people saw how he had all the measurables and showed flashes of skill and ability and really thought the loss was a huge deal. Others looked at what his replacement would have to do and saw that despite all the potential the truth is his career was rather pedestrian.

Look I am usually the "hope springs eternal" guy...but I need something to grab onto when you are trying to find hope coming off a disaster of a season. Hype and such is fun, but I also remember when every offseason Jerry Kill would tell us how great his incoming WRs were or all the work Mitch did to improve as a QB. I remember the basketball and football recruiting experts talking up the skills of guys none of us have ever seen or ever heard of as the missing link that would get us to the next level and I would take it for what it is worth. But we have now gone past that at this point because most of the guys being hyped up chose to go elsewhere so now we are so desperate to find hope that we have to pretend the lineup we thought was inadequate is actually not inadequate...that is some Sid Hartman level cope.

Literally the only posters that bother me are ones like Crappie who claim to be 100% positive as to how things are going to go and attack people who have the audacity to say they don't know how it will all turn out and who allow themselves to even have the slightest bit of hope something good will happen. I fully understand people being negative about the current state of the program and apprehensive about the future, it has been a brutal couple of years.

 

[Dakota2]

At this point we have way too many unknowns to know if we have a good roster.
We could be alright but any outsider would pick us last based on the things known.
We don't know how these guys look on the court, what have we got in Ihnen and Fox?
How do Christie and Betts look? Is Jack Wilson anything but a practice player? Can Mitchell play at this level? Is he capable of making this his team and be the leader?
It is not automatic that Payne, Carrington, and JOJ are just going to improve...players yoyo often in their development.
We have the same coaches. We did things differently in year 2 than year 1. Year 2 we almost never ran....year one we scored on transition opportunities. Year one we had backdoors, cuts to the hoop etc, smart plays....it appears it was just the players and not the coaching. Our defense was not good...how is it going to improve in year 3?
What will Ben emphasize in year 3? We do not have the players to run unless Fox and Ihnen are gazelles. But do we have the guards to run even if that were true?
Can anybody shoot? We need another guard for sure. Who we gonna add?

My point...we ain't gonna know until about 3 or 4 non conference games in. Look, Ben and Thorson know more about Gopher basketball than we do...they see these guys, they watch em, talk to em. They ain't dumb. They'll have a plan. Last season got derailed by injuries...we know Ben was very high on Ihnen...his injury changed the course....then Battle couldn't practice.
Garcia started very slow and hobbled ...whatever the hope was it didn't work. Seems like almost a guarantee those two guys will coach better....have a better plan. They have to know what went wrong....how the vision became unrecognizable. I definitely have faith they'll coach better in year 3. We just don't know if we have enough compatible parts to be a Big Ten competitive team.
There is too much we don't know to argue now if we are gonna be improved.

Year 1 we ran back doors and strong cuts to the hoop because we had Willis, Loewe, and Stephens. Same coaches Year 2 but different personnel.

 

[atsgopher]

At this point we have way too many unknowns to know if we have a good roster.
We could be alright but any outsider would pick us last based on the things known.
We don't know how these guys look on the court, what have we got in Ihnen and Fox?
How do Christie and Betts look? Is Jack Wilson anything but a practice player? Can Mitchell play at this level? Is he capable of making this his team and be the leader?
It is not automatic that Payne, Carrington, and JOJ are just going to improve...players yoyo often in their development.
We have the same coaches. We did things differently in year 2 than year 1. Year 2 we almost never ran....year one we scored on transition opportunities. Year one we had backdoors, cuts to the hoop etc, smart plays....it appears it was just the players and not the coaching. Our defense was not good...how is it going to improve in year 3?
What will Ben emphasize in year 3? We do not have the players to run unless Fox and Ihnen are gazelles. But do we have the guards to run even if that were true?
Can anybody shoot? We need another guard for sure. Who we gonna add?

My point...we ain't gonna know until about 3 or 4 non conference games in. Look, Ben and Thorson know more about Gopher basketball than we do...they see these guys, they watch em, talk to em. They ain't dumb. They'll have a plan. Last season got derailed by injuries...we know Ben was very high on Ihnen...his injury changed the course....then Battle couldn't practice.
Garcia started very slow and hobbled ...whatever the hope was it didn't work. Seems like almost a guarantee those two guys will coach better....have a better plan. They have to know what went wrong....how the vision became unrecognizable. I definitely have faith they'll coach better in year 3. We just don't know if we have enough compatible parts to be a Big Ten competitive team.
There is too much we don't know to argue now if we are gonna be improved.

“It appears it was just the players and not the coaching.”

Wait what? What kind of a conclusion is that?

You really are wondering why the young team, in the 2nd year, were making less “smart plays” than the veteran team from the first year.

Am I reading that right?

 

[howeda7]

I think Fox is someone who could surprise alot of people. Had alot of offers coming from DII and has just had bad luck with the injuries

Reportedly he's not doing well recovering from the back to back knee injuries and may not play next year.

 

[gopherbadgerman]

People may think I am crazy but I see us dancing as a 7-10 seed next year! All the disappointments have been nothing more than motivation for this entire program.

I’d like some of whatever you’re taking.

 

[leib0039]

I dont care how optimistic you are, I think we all agree the G situation TODAY is not good enough. That could clearly change with 2 open scholarships but as of this moment, the G position is mid major level at the best. So thus why I would say today, the roster is not good.

 

[Dave H]

Literally the only posters that bother me are ones like Crappie who claim to be 100% positive as to how things are going to go and attack people who have the audacity to say they don't know how it will all turn out and who allow themselves to even have the slightest bit of hope something good will happen. I fully understand people being negative about the current state of the program and apprehensive about the future, it has been a brutal couple of years.

Well to be fair Crappie isn't real...he is an alt account that makes Spaulding look like master orator

 

[Dave H]

Reportedly he's not doing well recovering from the back to back knee injuries and may not play next year.

If he can't play next year he should honestly retire.

 

[60's Guy]

“It appears it was just the players and not the coaching.”

Wait what? What kind of a conclusion is that?

You really are wondering why the young team, in the 2nd year, were making less “smart plays” than the veteran team from the first year.

Am I reading that right?

Samuels, Cooper, Battle, Garcia, and Thompson played a lot of minutes and have experience.
They didn't do these things.
It appears Loewe and Stephens learned these types of actions from other coaches because they are teachable! And the guys on the team last year did not demonstrate the cerebral plays of the year before. Pretty simple really.
You do know they have tons of hours they practice, small groups and team over spring, summer, fall and winter. There is no shortage of time to learn these things. The freshmen had plenty of time to learn these things. Yes, they were not points of emphasis. They were not taught or at the very least not learned.
We have no idea as a team how to enter the ball to the post on the block from the wing. It was not a point of emphasis. We tried high low lob entries on occasion and we tried entries to the post down the lane line which are difficult to accomplish successfully and low percentage.
So, yes....it doesn't take five years to learn "smart plays" ....it does take emphasis in practice.
You get what you emphasize.

 

[60's Guy]

Reportedly he's not doing well recovering from the back to back knee injuries and may not play next year.

Fox not being able to play would be sad. Imagine the hours and hours Fox and Ihnen have have put into rehab with the dream of playing. Really a long, long journey for those two guys. Wish both of them health and happiness in life and on the court for their sake.

 

[tjgopher]

Reportedly he's not doing well recovering from the back to back knee injuries and may not play next year.

Where did you see that reported?