This roster is not bad

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Mulligan said:
My fault that I didn't make my main point clear enough. All of those issues that I mentioned are reasons why it's going to be very hard to get someone who is a good bet to turn this thing around. There isn't the will to pay enough money for a sure thing, or even for a competent coach. A coach like that will have other options; sort of like guards that we desperately want and we're not even in on the top ones in the portal. Then you're back to hoping you get lucky. Nothing to do with liking a post--trying to point out it's not as simple as fire Ben.
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It’s not the only step, no doubt, but it’s a required step.
 

Gopher Teeth said:
It’s not the only step, no doubt, but it’s a required step.
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What would change your mind- considering that barring some scandal or health issue the next date that would happen is March 2024?
 

bga1 said:
Evans was bigger in terms of perception of the future. Henley was bigger in terms of on court performance this coming year.

Right now, I doubt that anything Ben does will be allowed to be "positive news" by half the posters here. It will either be the wrong player, from the wrong school, against the wrong competition or if it is a higher end guy- Ben will screw it up anyway.

I look forward to seeing the team that Ben ends up recruiting, on the floor this fall. I hope both players and coaches have a great offseason and the whole team ends up being greater than the sum of the parts. It can happen.
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Mitchell was a good signing and I and many others said so. If he somehow pulls two more equivalent signings, great and maybe he can pull off the necessary turnaround next season. But it's May 1st, and we haven't signed anyone in weeks, and that was a football player. The odds are low and dropping daily.
 

howeda7 said:
Mitchell was a good signing and I and many others said so. If he somehow pulls two more equivalent signings, great and maybe he can pull off the necessary turnaround next season. But it's May 1st, and we haven't signed anyone in weeks, and that was a football player. The odds are low and dropping daily.
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That's a pretty fair post. Certainly the deeper we go into the summer- the lower are his odds of pulling in a kid that can help. He must have at least one more significant guard addition. Without that he is really up against it...betting on health, development and chemistry in a big way.

To add to the pressure, if he can't show this summer that he can do well in the portal, it makes the perception for fall recruits worse. We need to build some legitimate optimism for this program, that recruits feel and factor into their decision making.
 

The question is, is this roster bad?

Let’s look at the starting 5!

PG: Michell
SG: Christie
SF: JoJ
PF: Garcia
C: Payne

Some of you may put Carrington over Christie which is fine. Hard to say which will be better come November.
The front court is a little poorly suited at SF and could really use a shooter/defender there. JoJ can defend but is better suited to PF. Unfortunately Garcia and Payne got that locked up.

Bench:
No back up PG.
Christie and Carribgton are raw.
Sf backups Betts and Ihnen are ???.
So is Fox.
Wilson provides five fouls and a big body.

So, there are some holes to fill with the two spots we have to fill.

I hear Ben is after a PG.

I’m hoping it’s Nate Calmese, he and Mitchell can Duke it out for starting PG and both could get loads of minutes.
Need a catch and shoot wing who can defend. This would free up JoJ to back up Garcia and Payne should Fox and Ihnen not be able to help.

Is it better than last year? I don’t know how any of you can say yes or no definitively. We need shooters.

We will have to wait and see who Ben gets if anybody.
 


Rockraven said:
It’s about 200% better. Your metrics failed. Your pessimism won’t change the diversity hire.
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You're the most pessimistic person(s) on here by continually stating the Gophers can't compete due to NIL, which is completely false.

I'll stick to reality. Although there is still, albeit dwindling with every passing day, a chance to improve this roster, this roster is currently worse than last season's historically bad roster.
 

Otis said:
The question is, is this roster bad?

Let’s look at the starting 5!

PG: Michell
SG: Christie
SF: JoJ
PF: Garcia
C: Payne

Some of you may put Carrington over Christie which is fine. Hard to say which will be better come November.
The front court is a little poorly suited at SF and could really use a shooter/defender there. JoJ can defend but is better suited to PF. Unfortunately Garcia and Payne got that locked up.

Bench:
No back up PG.
Christie and Carribgton are raw.
Sf backups Betts and Ihnen are ???.
So is Fox.
Wilson provides five fouls and a big body.

So, there are some holes to fill with the two spots we have to fill.

I hear Ben is after a PG.

I’m hoping it’s Nate Calmese, he and Mitchell can Duke it out for starting PG and both could get loads of minutes.
Need a catch and shoot wing who can defend. This would free up JoJ to back up Garcia and Payne should Fox and Ihnen not be able to help.

Is it better than last year? I don’t know how any of you can say yes or no definitively. We need shooters.

We will have to wait and see who Ben gets if anybody.
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The roster that has a shot to be mid-B1G is this with the bolded playing the vast majority of the minutes.

1-Mitchell
2-Transfer Portal
3-Christie
4-Garcia
5-Payne

Bench
1-Transfer portal
2-Carrington
3/4-JOJ/Ihnen/Betts
5-Fox/Wilson/JOJ

Two of the top 8 are MIA right now.
 
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howeda7 said:
The roster that has a shot to be mid-B1G is:

1-Mitchell
2-Transfer Portal
3-Christie
4-Garcia
5-Payne

Bench
1-Transfer portal
2-Carrington
3-Ihnen/Betts/JOJ
4-JOJ
5-Fox/Wilson/JOJ

Two of the top 8 are MIA right now.
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Agree with this. Christie has to be a starter for us to reach any semblance of our ceiling. If he's worse than Carrington, it's not a good sign.
 

howeda7 said:
1-Mitchell
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howeda7 said:
2-Transfer Portal
3-Christie
4-Garcia
5-Payne

Bench
1-Transfer portal
2-Carrington
3-Ihnen/Betts/JOJ
4-JOJ
5-Fox/Wilson/JOJ

Two of the top 8 are MIA right now.
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I like it, but Christie is a few thousand sandwiches short on being ready for B1G SF. Unless he is a very resilient skinny guy.

Do you not think JoJ is the primary backup at both PF and C?
 



Otis said:
The roster that has a shot to be mid-B1G is this with the bolded playing the vast majority of hte minutes.

e

I like it, but Christie is a few thousand sandwiches short on being ready for B1G SF. Unless he is a very resilient skinny guy.

Do you not think JoJ is the primary backup at both PF and C?
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Christie can be the 2 instead of the 3, but I think 3 guards is the way to go. I like JOJ, but he shouldn't be starting on a good team. The 3rd guard could be Ihnen, but we should treat anything from him as a bonus for now.

I don't love JOJ playing minutes at C, but Fox might not be able to go and we don't want Wilson playing 10-15 minutes/game. Against an Eddy type you'd probably have to play Wilson but I'd play JOJ there when possible against smaller centers.
 

howeda7 said:
The roster that has a shot to be mid-B1G is this with the bolded playing the vast majority of the minutes.

1-Mitchell
2-Transfer Portal
3-Christie
4-Garcia
5-Payne

Bench
1-Transfer portal
2-Carrington
3/4-JOJ/Ihnen/Betts
5-Fox/Wilson/JOJ

Two of the top 8 are MIA right now.
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One crafty move the coaching staff did make last year was locking up Betts early and bringing him in to redshirt. He has athleticism. He can shoot it. He may be more ready than the standard freshman because of the year of practice with the team. I would count him as potentially in the top 8. Lots of unnkowns here........
 

howeda7 said:
The roster that has a shot to be mid-B1G is this with the bolded playing the vast majority of the minutes.

1-Mitchell
2-Transfer Portal
3-Christie
4-Garcia
5-Payne

Bench
1-Transfer portal
2-Carrington
3/4-JOJ/Ihnen/Betts
5-Fox/Wilson/JOJ

Two of the top 8 are MIA right now.
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Our B1G starters are Mitchell, Christie, Betts, Garcia, Payne. Lots of rotation at 2 and 3, but all needing rest and rotation. It’s a pretty good team.
 

If ya squint this roster is mint. I do expect last years freshmen to improve but not to the extent some here do. Three wins this past season. I would think 6-7 with the current roster. I just don’t see that big of a jump from the freshmen and we still have more forwards than you can shake a stick at. I wouldn’t think there is enough there to save Ben’s job here.
 



CentralGopher said:
If ya squint this roster is mint. I do expect last years freshmen to improve but not to the extent some here do. Three wins this past season. I would think 6-7 with the current roster. I just don’t see that big of a jump from the freshmen and we still have more forwards than you can shake a stick at. I wouldn’t think there is enough there to save Ben’s job here.
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8 + wins and a good fall recruiting class is what Ben needs to save his bacon. If he whiffs on the fall class- he is in trouble with 8 or even 9 Big Ten wins.
 

Gophers7633 said:
Agree with this. Christie has to be a starter for us to reach any semblance of our ceiling. If he's worse than Carrington, it's not a good sign.
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Which Carrington is your base. Early season rookie, broken leg, last six games, or sophomore?
 


howeda7 said:
Christie can be the 2 instead of the 3, but I think 3 guards is the way to go. I like JOJ, but he shouldn't be starting on a good team. The 3rd guard could be Ihnen, but we should treat anything from him as a bonus for now.

I don't love JOJ playing minutes at C, but Fox might not be able to go and we don't want Wilson playing 10-15 minutes/game. Against an Eddy type you'd probably have to play Wilson but I'd play JOJ there when possible against smaller centers.
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Oh for goodness sake. He was a fr. and he improved greatly as the season went on.
 

MNVCGUY said:
Literally the only posters that bother me are ones like Crappie who claim to be 100% positive as to how things are going to go and attack people who have the audacity to say they don't know how it will all turn out and who allow themselves to even have the slightest bit of hope something good will happen. I fully understand people being negative about the current state of the program and apprehensive about the future, it has been a brutal couple of years.
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Don't believe I have ever said I am 100% positive about next season's results. Never.

Continue to lie.
 


Dakota2 said:
Which Carrington is your base. Early season rookie, broken leg, last six games, or sophomore?
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Broken leg? He basically showed very little but benefit of the doubt he was a freshman. Didn’t look like a point guard or a knock down shooter imo.
 


howeda7 said:
Even Doogie is mocking Ben for losing recruits to St. Bonnie on his podcast today. And for not offering the UMKC kid. Even though he "feels bad" for him. If he's lost Doogie good luck to him.
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I don't think our coach should give a rip about what Doogie says. If we ever has a coach who is going to Dodge for advice- fire him immediately.
 

bga1 said:
I don't think our coach should give a rip about what Doogie says. If we ever has a coach who is going to Dodge for advice- fire him immediately.
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He's not going to Doogie for "advice". The point is that even the local media who like him a lot and have mostly defended/treated him with kid gloves up to now can see what a complete disaster this Spring recruiting has been. Doogie has been one of his strongest defenders in the local sports media.

I guess he still has Mark Coyle, you and about 5 other GH'ers in his corner. And unfortunately only that first one matters.
 

howeda7 said:
He's not going to Doogie for "advice". The point is that even the local media who like him a lot and have mostly defended/treated him with kid gloves up to now can see what a complete disaster this Spring recruiting has been. Doogie has been one of his strongest defenders in the local sports media.

I guess he still has Mark Coyle, you and about 5 other GH'ers in his corner. And unfortunately only that first one matters.
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You cannot read. He doesn't have me...unless having me is counting as a disciple a person who says Ben was the wrong hire. I have stated that all along. He's here. He's our coach and he's going to be for the next year and perhaps beyond. I wish him success and I hope he gets it done with these players next year. It would be enjoyable and a great story to watch! That's kind of what being a fan is, Howie, hoping that the home team can win.

You can pee on yourself for the rest of the spring, summer and fall in despair. I think I am going to hope that Ben succeeds and makes me dead wrong about the hire. I think there are some great kids on this roster and we need a few more. I am betting our young coach is going all out to get them and I certainly hope he does.
 

bga1 said:
You cannot read. He doesn't have me...unless having me is counting as a disciple a person who says Ben was the wrong hire. I have stated that all along. He's here. He's our coach and he's going to be for the next year and perhaps beyond. I wish him success and I hope he gets it done with these players next year. It would be enjoyable and a great story to watch! That's kind of what being a fan is, Howie, hoping that the home team can win.

You can pee on yourself for the rest of the spring, summer and fall in despair. I think I am going to hope that Ben succeeds and makes me dead wrong about the hire. I think there are some great kids on this roster and we need a few more. I am betting our young coach is going all out to get them and I certainly hope he does.
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Well you're defending him as much as RockRaven/whatever his name is.

There's no right/wrong way to be a fan. I'm not in despair. Just waiting the 3xx days until Coyle does what he should have done 2 months ago. Same as you. I just don't care to engage in false hopium in the meantime.
 

howeda7 said:
Well you're defending him as much as RockRaven/whatever his name is.

There's no right/wrong way to be a fan. I'm not in despair. Just waiting the 3xx days until Coyle does what he should have done 2 months ago. Same as you. I just don't care to engage in false hopium in the meantime.
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You should consider switching to a perennial winning team. Any Gopher fan over the past 50 years has learned to deal in hope. I am not afraid to get let down. I realize that hope for a sports team is usually not fulfilled. Even better I'd love to see Ben be a turnaround story. It would be fantastic to see him pull this off when nobody thought he could. That's kinda fun.
 

bga1 said:
You should consider switching to a perennial winning team. Any Gopher fan over the past 50 years has learned to deal in hope. I am not afraid to get let down. I realize that hope for a sports team is usually not fulfilled. Even better I'd love to see Ben be a turnaround story. It would be fantastic to see him pull this off when nobody thought he could. That's kinda fun.
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Anyone who's a Minnesota sports fan is well versed in enduring losing. It can be fun to watch a team, even when they're bad, if it's building towards something. The 2021-2022 season wasn't hard to watch.

2023-2024 is setting up to be a long death march a la Dan Monson in 2006-2007 after "almost" being fired the previous March and Tim Brewster 2010. Those are the worst seasons to endure. But it is what it is.
 
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bga1 said:
You cannot read. He doesn't have me...unless having me is counting as a disciple a person who says Ben was the wrong hire. I have stated that all along. He's here. He's our coach and he's going to be for the next year and perhaps beyond. I wish him success and I hope he gets it done with these players next year. It would be enjoyable and a great story to watch! That's kind of what being a fan is, Howie, hoping that the home team can win.

You can pee on yourself for the rest of the spring, summer and fall in despair. I think I am going to hope that Ben succeeds and makes me dead wrong about the hire. I think there are some great kids on this roster and we need a few more. I am betting our young coach is going all out to get them and I certainly hope he does.
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I agree with all except bolded above. Regardless on how Ben does going forward, the hire was bad. He may turn out to be a good coach when all is said and done. That does not change the fact the the hire was absolutely horrible. 20-30 years from now IF Ben goes down in history as a good coach, I would love to ask him if it would be a great idea to hire a new coach to a P6 confernece who has NEVER been a HC at ANY level. Also a new coach who has never had success as a D1 player and or D1 assistant coach. I would bet his answer would be "of course that would be a bad hire". So, yes! I hope Ben and the Gophers miraculously win a bunch of games this upcoming season. Heck, he could somehow take the Gophers to the Final 4 and I would still say he was a bad hire.
 

I hope he does great this year and makes some substantial improvements. I’d bet my balls he won’t, but I hope he does. Lack of talent and depth and no history of good coaching does not add up to much success IMO, hopefully he surprises me.
 

howeda7 said:
Even Doogie is mocking Ben for losing recruits to St. Bonnie on his podcast today. And for not offering the UMKC kid. Even though he "feels bad" for him. If he's lost Doogie good luck to him.
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Since when does Doogie matter? He's just another talking head trying to justify his existance. Guys like you, for some reason, worship him and his babble. And savor the moment when the UMN hires another HC who would become your saviour trying to do the same thing Ben is committed to do. Good luck.

Ben lives in the real world working his a$$ off to get the working parts dressed in M&G to keep your type happy. I'm sure Ben realizes more than anyone how tought this gig is. BGA, myself and a handful of others, appreciate his hard work and hope that he succeeds. If not, those of us can tip our hat and wish him well.
 

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