This roster is not bad

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jovs said:
Even with ihnen and Fox out for the year I didn't think they were that far off last year. Garcia was injured early and wasn't at full strength until midway through the year. Battle and Carrington were injured a good part of B1G season. Even with all that they were competitive the last few weeks of the season.

I think Carrington and Payne make big jumps next year. Hopefully Mitchell can come in and shine at PG. If Ihnen can come back and play the 3 the lineup is not half bad. They really need at least one more guard though. Injuries will kill any chances.
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They weren't that far off? They weren't that far off from from what? A 3rd B1G win?
 

Dakota2 said:
A lot of the disorganized offense was do to Battle's selfish play. There is no ball movement when one guy is forcing long threes early in the clock. That is effectively a turnover.
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It’s Battle not the coaches ? Ridiculous!
 

Gophers7633 said:
How are you certain that will happen because that's what happened with Ben? If we hire a competent coach, odds are we'll be better in year 1 of that tenure, than what we will be this upcoming season. It's never been easier to turn it around quickly. There's been numerous examples of it in the last 3/4 years.
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The only new coach who could turn it around reasonably quickly would be one with the name and stature to get top portal players.
 

The roster is not bad?
Let's see ... we did finish in last place and we did lose three starters and two rotation guys.
Cooper, Henley and Battle were three point threats allowing Payne some space inside when at the end of the season we realized he could do better posting up rather than standing outside of 3.

So, now we have Christie and Mitchell to replace them and we are improved? Henley and Cooper shot 38% from 3. Battle was the guy other teams game planned to stop. We finished in last place.
How are we better?

If Mitchell gets in foul trouble or needs a rest the backup point is?

Our defense could be improved (it could be worse) but we can't score as well as last year.
IF Ihnen and Fox are our best players....then the roster is not bad.
 




Dave H said:
I see so because you think the school is some place no one would want to coach at we should just assume whatever this season is is now our new normal and embrace it? That is what this posty sounds like.

Ben is the coach so he has my support. This roster doesn't give me much hope though he will do well enough to prove my doubts wrong and that means a coaching search is mere months away whether you like it or not.

I get that people are putting on the maroon colored glasses and pretending this offseason hasn't been a disaster and that is fine. When the season comes I will do the same thing and pray they surprise us all. But you guys dont get to have it both ways. When some of us were concerned about the roster all you were saying (not you specifically but people like bga and MNVC) was how we would get better in the portal. Then the early portal targets went elsewhere and when some of us were posting concerns (and by that I dont mean the people who were jumping off cliffs in anger or going off on huge rants about Ben) that now we are going after players that seem like minor upgrades at best we were told they have skills and they will help fill out a roster that badly needs it and they will come here because we have the minutes and we are a Big Ten School. Now none of them came and we are supposed to believe that the roster as constructed, the one all of you were telling us Ben would make better than it was (and none of you were pretending it was good enough even 2 weeks ago) is now good enough to make a little noise? Based on what? 2 guys who havent played in two years suddenly playing a full season? Freshmen playing above their level? Massive jumps from players based on...reasons? There is drinking the kool aid and there is outright denial and you guys are grasping at straws that dont exist.

Believe me I hope I am wrong, but there is no way any of you thought this roster was good enough before our latest two targets said no. We need only go back to the portal thread and see that for ourselves. I am all for going into full on cope mode to try and survive what will like be a very ugly Big Ten season (Non-Con could be good maybe...hopefully) but lets not pretend that this right now doesn't look extremely bad. No one, and I mean no one, that is in the Big Ten is looking at this roster and thinking "damn I don't want to play those guys!" and you all know it. Now maybe they will surprise, maybe total will be greater than the sum of its parts and I will come back and eat all of the crow. (GLADLY!) Maybe this is one of those situations where the coach just needed the perfect roster to implement his plan. If so awesome it will be an epic moment and Ben will keep his job and the Gophers will be better for all of it. But lets not pretend any of you would bet your mortgage the Gophers will any better than they were last year.
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Nobody thinks he has done well in the portal. Minnesota is a bad program presently and coach does not have the juice to overcome that with good portal players. We are not an attractive destination.
 

Dakota2 said:
A lot of the disorganized offense was do to Battle's selfish play. There is no ball movement when one guy is forcing long threes early in the clock. That is effectively a turnover.
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Why didnt your coach sit him?
 




60's Guy said:
I doubt Marcus Carr and Jamison Battle were disobeying the coaches wishes. The coaches realized we couldn't score and asked them to please shoot because they were our best chance to score.
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Battle shoots for stats. No comparison with Carr.
 

Crappie said:
Why didnt your coach sit him?
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He should have. He needs to get better- as do the players. It's never a great move to hire a coach on training wheels. What we don't know at the present time is whether he is going to grow into a full grown bike or if he is going to remain in training. Ramberg, or Henley should have played for Battle when he was taking bad shots.
 

Crappie said:
Why didnt your coach sit him?
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Our coach thought he had a better chance to compete with a selfish Battle than Ramberg, an unskilled team player. A coaching mistake.
 




60's Guy said:
The roster is not bad?
Let's see ... we did finish in last place and we did lose three starters and two rotation guys.
Cooper, Henley and Battle were three point threats allowing Payne some space inside when at the end of the season we realized he could do better posting up rather than standing outside of 3.

So, now we have Christie and Mitchell to replace them and we are improved? Henley and Cooper shot 38% from 3. Battle was the guy other teams game planned to stop. We finished in last place.
How are we better?

If Mitchell gets in foul trouble or needs a rest the backup point is?

Our defense could be improved (it could be worse) but we can't score as well as last year.
IF Ihnen and Fox are our best players....then the roster is not bad.
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You started by saying that you knew with certainty that the roster IS bad. Then you said it would be improved IF. I don't differ with you that much- I just plan on waiting to see if IF pans out before I vent a spleen complaining about what IS.

I will say this: Most all of the pessimism here is based on the idea that the coach IS incompetent. If this roster were next year's roster for one of the better coaches in the Big Ten, the same people would be saying that the coach WILL find a way to make them into a good club. I hope that Ben finds the way this year.
 


Dakota2 said:
It's Battle for non-team play. It's coaches for not sitting him to make a coaching point.
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We would have gotten a worse attitude and even worse play from Battle by benching him for being Battle. That would have driven him to the portal. Oh, that’s right. He was a negative all year. He might just need a chang of scenery for a fresh start. Good luck to him. Our guard play was a negative. Cooper and Samuels are gone. Good riddance. Mitchell is a big upgrade. Carrington got his feet wet enough to develop for next year. Christie is instant impact. Ihnen while primarily at the 3 May see some 2 time as well when Christie and or Carrington move to the point. Betts is a big upgrade at the 3 as well. JOJ will find his time at several positions and be a strong contributor perhaps by spelling Garcia. I likely left out someone’s favorites. Wilson has to pick up minutes in relief of Payne. This team is greatly improved. That for all of you that hate diversity hiring.
 

bga1 said:
You started by saying that you knew with certainty that the roster IS bad. Then you said it would be improved IF. I don't differ with you that much- I just plan on waiting to see if IF pans out before I vent a spleen complaining about what IS.

I will say this: Most all of the pessimism here is based on the idea that the coach IS incompetent. If this roster were next year's roster for one of the better coaches in the Big Ten, the same people would be saying that the coach WILL find a way to make them into a good club. I hope that Ben finds the way this year.
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Maybe semantics but pessimistic attitude driven by assuming coach is incompetent is based on measurable results so far. It’s not being pulled out of thin air or simply being hostile towards Ben. I can honestly say that I’m having a hard time seeing any coach get this collection of players into the top half of the league.

Stay optimistic for both of us.
 

bga1 said:
No. If you read what I said- he has to be fired if he doesn’t make significant progress this year.
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Well you also said this roster isnt bad so...

;)

(I must have missed the significant improvement part my bad)
 

Rockraven said:
We would have gotten a worse attitude and even worse play from Battle by benching him for being Battle. That would have driven him to the portal. Oh, that’s right. He was a negative all year. He might just need a chang of scenery for a fresh start. Good luck to him. Our guard play was a negative. Cooper and Samuels are gone. Good riddance. Mitchell is a big upgrade. Carrington got his feet wet enough to develop for next year. Christie is instant impact. Ihnen while primarily at the 3 May see some 2 time as well when Christie and or Carrington move to the point. Betts is a big upgrade at the 3 as well. JOJ will find his time at several positions and be a strong contributor perhaps by spelling Garcia. I likely left out someone’s favorites. Wilson has to pick up minutes in relief of Payne. This team is greatly improved. That for all of you that hate diversity hiring.
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A backcourt of Ihnen and Carrington at times? Betts a big upgrade? What do you base that on ? Diversity hiring has nothing to do with it. A competitive team isn’t asking for the moon. Hope for a good year but major issues with guards leaves me less than hopeful.
 

jovs said:
Even with ihnen and Fox out for the year I didn't think they were that far off last year. Garcia was injured early and wasn't at full strength until midway through the year. Battle and Carrington were injured a good part of B1G season. Even with all that they were competitive the last few weeks of the season.

I think Carrington and Payne make big jumps next year. Hopefully Mitchell can come in and shine at PG. If Ihnen can come back and play the 3 the lineup is not half bad. They really need at least one more guard though. Injuries will kill any chances.
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Werent far off? They won 9 games TOTAL. Fleck's team won as many games...
 

Rockraven said:
We would have gotten a worse attitude and even worse play from Battle by benching him for being Battle. That would have driven him to the portal. Oh, that’s right. He was a negative all year. He might just need a chang of scenery for a fresh start. Good luck to him. Our guard play was a negative. Cooper and Samuels are gone. Good riddance. Mitchell is a big upgrade. Carrington got his feet wet enough to develop for next year. Christie is instant impact. Ihnen while primarily at the 3 May see some 2 time as well when Christie and or Carrington move to the point. Betts is a big upgrade at the 3 as well. JOJ will find his time at several positions and be a strong contributor perhaps by spelling Garcia. I likely left out someone’s favorites. Wilson has to pick up minutes in relief of Payne. This team is greatly improved. That for all of you that hate diversity hiring.
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I think we need to be a bit cautious with what we're going to get from Mitchell. I hope to be pleasantly surprised by how he does, but he averaged 11 PPG and 5 APG (3 TOPG) for a 9-22 ball club that went 2-14 in the WCC.

He's now going to be a guy we're counting on for 35-40 minutes a night in the Big 10.

We've got 3 unknowns at guard, and we need them all to be exceptional. It could happen, as others have said, but odds are so slim that it does.
 

MNVCGUY said:
I have no clue how many games the Gophers are going to win in the Big Ten this year, because I haven't seen our final roster, the final roster of any of the other teams in the conference and most importantly I haven't seen any of these teams on the court in 23-24. I don't make preseason predictions because I know that I don't have the foggiest idea how it all going to play out. If I did I would be living in Vegas and making a fortune in gambling.

We 100% may suck again....and if we do we will almost certainly be looking for a new head coach. But I refuse to write the team off before they even play a single game.

The term reality keeps getting tossed around. The reality is that none of us have ever seen Mitchell, Fox, Christie, Betts, and Wilson play a single minute for the Gophers and it has been 2 years since Ihnen was in a game. So while it is easy to assume all will suck the simple fact of the matter is that none of us knows what those players are going to bring to the table in 23-24.
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Then you have no reason to criticize those of us that look at the roster filled with unknowns and think "good god this looks like trouble". Leave out the fringe on either side of the argument most of us are saying the same thing, just some of you look at the potential while others look at what is inherently lacking.

It kind of reminds me of the debate over Dylan Wright right after he left. A lot of people saw how he had all the measurables and showed flashes of skill and ability and really thought the loss was a huge deal. Others looked at what his replacement would have to do and saw that despite all the potential the truth is his career was rather pedestrian.

Look I am usually the "hope springs eternal" guy...but I need something to grab onto when you are trying to find hope coming off a disaster of a season. Hype and such is fun, but I also remember when every offseason Jerry Kill would tell us how great his incoming WRs were or all the work Mitch did to improve as a QB. I remember the basketball and football recruiting experts talking up the skills of guys none of us have ever seen or ever heard of as the missing link that would get us to the next level and I would take it for what it is worth. But we have now gone past that at this point because most of the guys being hyped up chose to go elsewhere so now we are so desperate to find hope that we have to pretend the lineup we thought was inadequate is actually not inadequate...that is some Sid Hartman level cope.
 


Bayfieldgopher said:
I would love to see a poll of "competent coach(s)" who rank the BIG teams in order from top to bottom where they would go to be the HC.

Curious where you would rank the Gophers.

Curious as to what others think as well..
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I thought this was a pretty good article from a few years ago (was posted in a thread somewhere) that ranks many of the facets that go into the job. Overall, Minnesota comes in 10th.

Big Ten Basketball Coaches Rank the Best Jobs in the Conference - Stadium

This is the fourth in Stadium’s “Conference Chain of Command" series in which we polled a handful of veteran coaches in every league to determine the best
watchstadium.com watchstadium.com
 

Dakota2 said:
Our coach thought he had a better chance to compete with a selfish Battle than Ramberg, an unskilled team player. A coaching mistake.
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And a recruiting mistake.
 

bga1 said:
You started by saying that you knew with certainty that the roster IS bad. Then you said it would be improved IF. I don't differ with you that much- I just plan on waiting to see if IF pans out before I vent a spleen complaining about what IS.

I will say this: Most all of the pessimism here is based on the idea that the coach IS incompetent. If this roster were next year's roster for one of the better coaches in the Big Ten, the same people would be saying that the coach WILL find a way to make them into a good club. I hope that Ben finds the way this year.
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I can say I wouldn't...if the coach was coming off the same type of year Ben is. I might say that the team could take a step in the right direction if we had a different coach, but it would not be a big one no matter who the coach was. Coaching wasn't the only problem last year talent was part of it as well and nothing has really improved on that front IMHO. (ifs and buts mean nothing right now)

Put it this way, if we had fired him after Weakling Wednesday and hired say Craig Smith (not my choice but a popular one here) and this was his roster...I would basically feel that we might look better, might win a couple more games but that is it. I would be hopeful though that by the end we looked like a team that knew what it was doing so the next season we could be on our way. Hell if my dream came to fruition and Dutcher was our coach this season I doubt I would think roster would improve by more than 3-4 wins. It is just not a good enough roster to think otherwise based on what we know.

You are right though in that for many of us even if we can convince ourselves the roster is better than we think we don't think Ben Johnson is good enough to take advantage of it.
 

B
Blackhammer said:
A backcourt of Ihnen and Carrington at times? Betts a big upgrade? What do you base that on ? Diversity hiring has nothing to do with it. A competitive team isn’t asking for the moon. Hope for a good year but major issues with guards leaves me less than
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You dug deep to manufacture your fatalistic view of this team. I’ve been all across America and the world for that matter. I have never found a more racist place than Minnesota. The attempts to cover it up are fruitless.
 

Rockraven said:
B

You dug deep to manufacture your fatalistic view of this team. I’ve been all across America and the world for that matter. I have never found a more racist place than Minnesota. The attempts to cover it up are fruitless.
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Obvious troll is obvious. Go back to calling everyone you disagree with BADger fans sadly that was more creative than whatever this performance art is. You are likely someone's alt just trying to stir the pot cause you have no life.
 



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