Start up Spring Practice now

GophersInIowa

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Hey, the famed New York Times columnist and Saint Louis Park native Thomas Friedman agrees with me...(bye the way, the ignorant snark of your post should give way to some serious reflection).

START SPRING PRACTICE NOW

Try reading it again. It doesn't say what you think it says.
 


GoldenRodents

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Try reading it again. It doesn't say what you think it says.

@GophersInIowa: it says exactly what I think it's saying....

A college football player has one of the lowest risk profiles...let them get back to work. Doesn't seem obvious that Friedman is trying to "bend the curve" of main stream opinion? He has a way to go because people are so caught up in the delusion that mass lock downs are a scientific answer to a viral respiratory pandemic.

Listen to him, he is paving the way to START UP SPRING PRACTICE NOW

“We need to bend with her forces — even when we as a species are responsible for unleashing them,” Katz said. That means a designed strategy, based on risk profiles, of phasing back to work those least vulnerable, so we gradually cultivate the protection of herd immunity — “while concentrating our health services and social services on protecting those most vulnerable” until we can sound the all-clear. "
 

Gopher028

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Per CDC

United States (January 1 - April 22)

CoVid19: No Vaccine
cases 852,703
direct deaths 21,050
(21 children)

Influenza A (h1n1): Yes vaccine
cases 36,000,000
direct deaths 22,000
(144 children)
 

GoldenRodents

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Curious - did you actually read the story or just the headline and assume it proved your point? Because I read the story and it doesn't prove your asinine "Start Spring Practice Now" stance is correct or even remotely intelligent.

Did you read the story and not see he is suggesting to a hardened demographic that they ought to let those with low risk profiles go back to work?

This is exactly what I've been advocating. Young football players have one of the lowest risk profiles...college students have close to zero risk of dying from COVID19. SO...

START UP SPRING PRACTICE NOW

"“We need to bend with her forces — even when we as a species are responsible for unleashing them,” Katz said. That means a designed strategy, based on risk profiles, of phasing back to work those least vulnerable, so we gradually cultivate the protection of herd immunity — “while concentrating our health services and social services on protecting those most vulnerable” until we can sound the all-clear. "
 
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MplsGopher

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A college football player has one of the lowest risk profiles
If students are banned from campus, how is it possible to allow only a select group of students to be let on, to use University facilities, when the rest of the students aren't allowed to use any University facilities?

It will never fly. Not until students can come back to campus.

Now, if coach Fleck wanted to personally pay out of his own pocket to rent out a practice field and a entire motel next to the field, etc. then you might have a leg to stand on. But of course that won't happen.
 

Wcfan56

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If students are banned from campus, how is it possible to allow only a select group of students to be let on, to use University facilities, when the rest of the students aren't allowed to use any University facilities?

It will never fly. Not until students can come back to campus.

Now, if coach Fleck wanted to personally pay out of his own pocket to rent out a practice field and a entire motel next to the field, etc. then you might have a leg to stand on. But of course that won't happen.
 

Wcfan56

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Note that both Iowa and North Dakota University systems have announced on campus classes for the fall.
 

MNVCGUY

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Did you read the story and not see he is suggesting to a hardened demographic that they ought to let those with low risk profiles go back to work?

This is exactly what I've been advocating. Young football players have one of the lowest risk profiles...college students have close to zero risk of dying from COVID19. SO...

START UP SPRING PRACTICE NOW

"“We need to bend with her forces — even when we as a species are responsible for unleashing them,” Katz said. That means a designed strategy, based on risk profiles, of phasing back to work those least vulnerable, so we gradually cultivate the protection of herd immunity — “while concentrating our health services and social services on protecting those most vulnerable” until we can sound the all-clear. "

So just to be clear, you are looking to get spring practices started now?

You of course are right that college students are at a very low risk of death from Covid19. They are not immune from getting really sick though and needing hospitalization and of course they would also come into contact with a lot of non-college age students, but you are so locked in on the death rate that is all you can see apparently.

Restrictions are being lessened, many college campuses are planning to open in the fall, the economy will be reopened in a gradual manner to hopefully keep cases from spiking and overwhelming the hospital system, which was the whole reason for the lock downs in the first place (in spite of what the far right wing crowd will try and claim).

But feel free to keep shouting the same thing over and over again. There is zero chance that spring practices will be started right now and they should be very very very very low on the list of priorities for anyone in power.
 



MplsGopher

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Note that both Iowa and North Dakota University systems have announced on campus classes for the fall.
Minnesota likely will too.

But that's the fall. At what point, if at all, will the campus open back up to students before then?
 

MNVCGUY

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Minnesota likely will too.

But that's the fall. At what point, if at all, will the campus open back up to students before then?

I could see some schools trying a gradual phase in of students during the summer when attendance is much lower in the first place. Might provide an opportunity to see what happens as they start to open things back up in a more controlled manner before trying to bring back a much larger number of students in the fall. Will be interesting to watch how schools approach it.
 

MplsGopher

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So back to what I had asked before:

if Minnesota allows some limited opening of campus in say, June, do you try to hold something like a "mini-camp" for players? Or do you just go right into summer conditioning? How many aren't near campus and would need to travel back to Mpls? Things to think about and probably already are in planning.
 

MNVCGUY

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So back to what I had asked before:

if Minnesota allows some limited opening of campus in say, June, do you try to hold something like a "mini-camp" for players? Or do you just go right into summer conditioning? How many aren't near campus and would need to travel back to Mpls? Things to think about and probably already are in planning.

That will be a tricky one because states are going to be handling things differently and it wouldn't be fair to let some teams have organized practices while other teams can't even get back on campus. Right now everyone is in the same boat so there isn't a huge concern from a competitive balance standpoint.

The whole process of reopening the country is going to be fascinating to watch from all angles.
 



MplsGopher

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That will be a tricky one because states are going to be handling things differently and it wouldn't be fair to let some teams have organized practices while other teams can't even get back on campus. Right now everyone is in the same boat so there isn't a huge concern from a competitive balance standpoint.

The whole process of reopening the country is going to be fascinating to watch from all angles.
OK, bear with me here.

Say that all Big Ten states were at the same point with their state stay-at-home orders, all campuses announced they'll be open in the fall, and all campuses say they'll start limited reopening by June X. Then the Big Ten declares that its schools may resume athletic training on campuses by June Y.

Then, do you hold some type of mini-camp for football, or just go straight into summer conditioning? :cool:
 

GoldenRodents

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So just to be clear, you are looking to get spring practices started now?

You of course are right that college students are at a very low risk of death from Covid19. They are not immune from getting really sick though and needing hospitalization and of course they would also come into contact with a lot of non-college age students, but you are so locked in on the death rate that is all you can see apparently.

Restrictions are being lessened, many college campuses are planning to open in the fall, the economy will be reopened in a gradual manner to hopefully keep cases from spiking and overwhelming the hospital system, which was the whole reason for the lock downs in the first place (in spite of what the far right wing crowd will try and claim).

But feel free to keep shouting the same thing over and over again. There is zero chance that spring practices will be started right now and they should be very very very very low on the list of priorities for anyone in power.

I know the ship can't turn on a dime, but the shutdowns were the result of panic over worst case scenarios...that this was virulent and lethal virus for all who came in contact. It is not, it picks of the old and weak, while millions get infected without realizing it.

The infectious disease establishment has rejected decades of epidemic theory by promoting the mass lock downs based on horribly exaggerated computer models. In doing so they have slowed the natural vaccine of herd immunity.

Our politicians and bureaucrats are in major CYA mode, that's why they are slow-walking the reopening.

One good thing that will come of this is that we should be ready the next time with enough PPE to protect the nurses and doctors.

Meanwhile, starting up sports is really an important though symbolic way we can start to steer out of this clusterf*ck.
 

MNVCGUY

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OK, bear with me here.

Say that all Big Ten states were at the same point with their state stay-at-home orders, all campuses announced they'll be open in the fall, and all campuses say they'll start limited reopening by June X. Then the Big Ten declares that its schools may resume athletic training on campuses by June Y.

Then, do you hold some type of mini-camp for football, or just go straight into summer conditioning? :cool:

No clue. Is it fair for Big Ten teams to practice if other conferences can't/won't? Lot of moving parts and logistics to work out.
 

MNVCGUY

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I know the ship can't turn on a dime, but the shutdowns were the result of panic over worst case scenarios...that this was virulent and lethal virus for all who came in contact. It is not, it picks of the old and weak, while millions get infected without realizing it.

The infectious disease establishment has rejected decades of epidemic theory by promoting the mass lock downs based on horribly exaggerated computer models. In doing so they have slowed the natural vaccine of herd immunity.

Our politicians and bureaucrats are in major CYA mode, that's why they are slow-walking the reopening.

One good thing that will come of this is that we should be ready the next time with enough PPE to protect the nurses and doctors.

Meanwhile, starting up sports is really an important though symbolic way we can start to steer out of this clusterf*ck.

Actually agree with most of what you wrote here. A lot of really hard decisions were made across the world based on limited information and to hopefully avoid the worst case scenarios which seemed very realistic at the time. We have the benefit of multiple months now to get a better understanding on what Covid19 is and what it is not and how best to attack it.

To your last point. Sports are an important part of life and will definitely help signify some return to a sense of normal. But spring practices are not the thing that will do that. The league to really watch is MLB, when they are able to start going again that will really calm the fears of a lot of people.
 

GophersInIowa

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@GophersInIowa: it says exactly what I think it's saying....

A college football player has one of the lowest risk profiles...let them get back to work. Doesn't seem obvious that Friedman is trying to "bend the curve" of main stream opinion? He has a way to go because people are so caught up in the delusion that mass lock downs are a scientific answer to a viral respiratory pandemic.

Listen to him, he is paving the way to START UP SPRING PRACTICE NOW

“We need to bend with her forces — even when we as a species are responsible for unleashing them,” Katz said. That means a designed strategy, based on risk profiles, of phasing back to work those least vulnerable, so we gradually cultivate the protection of herd immunity — “while concentrating our health services and social services on protecting those most vulnerable” until we can sound the all-clear. "
So what exactly is the specific strategy? This quote and the rest of the piece says the opposite of starting spring ball right now. It says we need a good strategy in place to achieve these things. We don’t.
 

GoldenRodents

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So what exactly is the specific strategy? This quote and the rest of the piece says the opposite of starting spring ball right now. It says we need a good strategy in place to achieve these things. We don’t.

The good strategy is to achieve the natural vaccine of herd immunity as soon as possible. Quit pretending that the young and healthy have anything to fear. This is academic, government and media propaganda. Focus the billions on protecting nursing homes, continuously warn the young to stay away from the aged and immune compromised.

Right now the human catastrophe is coming from the economic depression.
 

GophersInIowa

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The good strategy is to achieve the natural vaccine of herd immunity as soon as possible. Quit pretending that the young and healthy have anything to fear. This is academic, government and media propaganda. Focus the billions on protecting nursing homes, continuously warn the young to stay away from the aged and immune compromised.

Right now the human catastrophe is coming from the economic depression.
And implementing that is just like flipping a switch, right?
 

MplsGopher

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No clue. Is it fair for Big Ten teams to practice if other conferences can't/won't? Lot of moving parts and logistics to work out.
At that level, I would say: sorry, not sorry.

The Big Ten doesn’t need to wait on any other conference, if it’s members say they’re all ready. My opinion
 

fair

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The good strategy is to achieve the natural vaccine of herd immunity as soon as possible. Quit pretending that the young and healthy have anything to fear. This is academic, government and media propaganda. Focus the billions on protecting nursing homes, continuously warn the young to stay away from the aged and immune compromised.

Right now the human catastrophe is coming from the economic depression.
I really haven't seen this being broadcasted at all in the last month or so. I think everyone understands that young people aren't going to die, they're just trying to slow the spread to those vulnerable people. So unless you have a recent link to media source saying young people need to be terrified, I suggest you stop using that strawman.

I don't disagree that our leaders did kind of back themselves into a corner with the response. None of them want to just backtrack everything they've been pushing for the past two months and say "yeah, Sweden had it right". That would imply that they did something wrong, and no politician will ever admit that. So, the slow process of reopening will continue.

Now, regarding sports, college athletics are likely going to be the last to open it all up. They have way more hoops to jump through: federal & state guidelines, NCAA & conference decisions, individual campus policies, etc. Football is especially difficult. Even with Sweden's approach, they have banned gatherings of over 50 people. I would expect something similar in the US. Teams could maybe run practices for position groups, but there's no way they could have full team practices with ~100 players and coaches.
 

GoldenRodents

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I really haven't seen this being broadcasted at all in the last month or so. I think everyone understands that young people aren't going to die, they're just trying to slow the spread to those vulnerable people. So unless you have a recent link to media source saying young people need to be terrified, I suggest you stop using that strawman.

I don't disagree that our leaders did kind of back themselves into a corner with the response. None of them want to just backtrack everything they've been pushing for the past two months and say "yeah, Sweden had it right". That would imply that they did something wrong, and no politician will ever admit that. So, the slow process of reopening will continue.

Now, regarding sports, college athletics are likely going to be the last to open it all up. They have way more hoops to jump through: federal & state guidelines, NCAA & conference decisions, individual campus policies, etc. Football is especially difficult. Even with Sweden's approach, they have banned gatherings of over 50 people. I would expect something similar in the US. Teams could maybe run practices for position groups, but there's no way they could have full team practices with ~100 players and coaches.

Did you watch MSNBC last night?
 

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No, nor any other day nor night (other than the night of the last Presidential election, that was a knee slapping hoot!) Pray tell, what did those idiots have to say last night?
 

MNVCGUY

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I really haven't seen this being broadcasted at all in the last month or so. I think everyone understands that young people aren't going to die, they're just trying to slow the spread to those vulnerable people. So unless you have a recent link to media source saying young people need to be terrified, I suggest you stop using that strawman.

I don't disagree that our leaders did kind of back themselves into a corner with the response. None of them want to just backtrack everything they've been pushing for the past two months and say "yeah, Sweden had it right". That would imply that they did something wrong, and no politician will ever admit that. So, the slow process of reopening will continue.

Now, regarding sports, college athletics are likely going to be the last to open it all up. They have way more hoops to jump through: federal & state guidelines, NCAA & conference decisions, individual campus policies, etc. Football is especially difficult. Even with Sweden's approach, they have banned gatherings of over 50 people. I would expect something similar in the US. Teams could maybe run practices for position groups, but there's no way they could have full team practices with ~100 players and coaches.

Lot of talk about Sweden. It should be pointed out that as of right now all we really know is that Sweden took a different approach then most of the rest of the world. There is no way of knowing at this moment if what they did was the best course of action. That won't be known for quite a while.
 

MinneStoa

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Lot of talk about Sweden. It should be pointed out that as of right now all we really know is that Sweden took a different approach then most of the rest of the world. There is no way of knowing at this moment if what they did was the best course of action. That won't be known for quite a while.
It should also be noted that Sweden has a per capita COVID-19 death rate that's 4x higher than its closest neighbor. There are a ton of factors at play, and it's anybody's guess where they will end up in relation to other countries as time goes on, but it's certainly not a clear example of a success story.
 

GoldenRodents

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It should also be noted that Sweden has a per capita COVID-19 death rate that's 4x higher than its closest neighbor. There are a ton of factors at play, and it's anybody's guess where they will end up in relation to other countries as time goes on, but it's certainly not a clear example of a success story.

Sweden has chosen the historic path of weathering epidemics, they are gaining herd immunity, their seniors will be safe long before ours are.
 

MNVCGUY

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Sweden has chosen the historic path of weathering epidemics, they are gaining herd immunity, their seniors will be safe long before ours are.

That is true if a vaccine truly ends up being a year or more (if ever) away. However, if a vaccine or strong therapeutics are found/developed over the next few months that can help prevent deaths then a lot of people there may have ended up dying because of the route they took when they could have been saved if they had done what the rest of the world is doing.

Way too early to know if the path they chose was the right one.
 

GoldenRodents

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That is true if a vaccine truly ends up being a year or more (if ever) away. However, if a vaccine or strong therapeutics are found/developed over the next few months that can help prevent deaths then a lot of people there may have ended up dying because of the route they took when they could have been saved if they had done what the rest of the world is doing.

Way too early to know if the path they chose was the right one.

@MNVCGUY It's worth talking through this because the route we are taking is based on several implausible assumptions...

(1) This virus is different and more lethal than anything we've ever seen before...demonstrably false

(2) This virus affects all age groups at the same rate...demonstrably false: 99% of deaths are extreme aged or have serious health issues.

(3) This virus could be contact traced and the software could be ready in weeks...demonstrably false: the virus is too contagious to be contact traced.

(4) A vaccine is the only way to true safety...the best guess is that a vaccine would be no more effective than the flu shot.

(5) The best way to protect people is to keep infections as low as possible...demonstrably false, vast numbers have been infected with no symptoms. THE BEST WAY TO PROTECT PEOPLE IS TO GET AS MANY HEALTHY PEOPLE INFECTED AS POSSIBLE.

(6) We need therapeutics before we open the economy. We already have them. And we have the resources and guidelines to protect the vulnerable until herd immunity is achieved.

WE ARE NOW DELAYING HERD IMMUNITY.

Waltz just extended the stay at home order because he doesn't want to look like his early decisions were hysterical, ill-advised, and disastrous for the state economy. Would that we had South Dakota's governor.

START SPRING PRACTICE NOW!!!
 

MNVCGUY

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@MNVCGUY It's worth talking through this because the route we are taking is based on several implausible assumptions...

(1) This virus is different and more lethal than anything we've ever seen before...demonstrably false

(2) This virus affects all age groups at the same rate...demonstrably false: 99% of deaths are extreme aged or have serious health issues.

(3) This virus could be contact traced and the software could be ready in weeks...demonstrably false: the virus is too contagious to be contact traced.

(4) A vaccine is the only way to true safety...the best guess is that a vaccine would be no more effective than the flu shot.

(5) The best way to protect people is to keep infections as low as possible...demonstrably false, vast numbers have been infected with no symptoms. THE BEST WAY TO PROTECT PEOPLE IS TO GET AS MANY HEALTHY PEOPLE INFECTED AS POSSIBLE.

(6) We need therapeutics before we open the economy. We already have them. And we have the resources and guidelines to protect the vulnerable until herd immunity is achieved.

WE ARE NOW DELAYING HERD IMMUNITY.

Waltz just extended the stay at home order because he doesn't want to look like his early decisions were hysterical, ill-advised, and disastrous for the state economy. Would that we had South Dakota's governor.

START SPRING PRACTICE NOW!!!

Clearly your mind is made up. Only thing I would say is that you are applying the information that we have today to decisions that had to be made months ago. Restrictions are lifting but it is going to be done in a slow methodical way as opposed to just flipping the switch.
 




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