Quarterback Position

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GopherHomer said:
Shortell?? Ha! Leidner had us up 28-0 at halftime...we're fine. Next week will be a challenge to see if we can get our greatest road victory in a decade. Anybody wishing for Shortell is just stupid. People should watch the games and not just look at stats...most of the pass attempts were just hail marries. I disagree with the calls, but Leidner looks just fine on the simple routes.
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No, our defense(and a ref) had us up 28-0. Subtract the 14 pts created by our defense and what's the final score?
 


station19 said:
No, our defense(and a ref) had us up 28-0. Subtract the 14 pts created by our defense and what's the final score?
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So...Auburn shouldn't have counted the "kick 6" from last year?

FFS, all points count, I hate that line of reasoning. It's all part of the game. And lord knows that we've been on the short end of that crap enough times the past few decades.
 


station19 said:
I agree. I hate to admit it but he is not a very good runner either. Yes he is big and gets some yds but he is not quick, fast or athletic.
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This is something that's kind of been bugging me lately too. A lot of the time, you've got a QB that excels in one area much more than another; a guy that throws it well but isn't much of a runner, or a guy that's a great runner but can't throw.

Mitch doesn't excel at either. That's downright scary. I think there's still hope and I think he'll improve. But at this rate, I wonder if there's a point where the staff thinks that Streveler is a strong enough runner that it can compensate for him not throwing it that well. I mean, he's gotta be a better runner and how much worse could he be at throwing it than Mitch?

Right now, ML7 is the guy, without question. But there sure are some things in his game that just don't pass the eyeball test.
 


He only threw the ball 11 times. The bad misses I remember we're the the K.J. May pass near the sideline (not an easy pass, but one that a big 10 qb needs to make), and the int at halftime. I guess I'm a little surprised at the negativity around ML. The TD pass to Williams was right on the money, and he's hitting the easy throws to open receivers. The pass plays we are running are generally not easy completions, but are also hard to intercept. I don't totally agree with this philosophy, but I guess to this point that is what the game has dictated.
 

M&G BUSt said:
He only threw the ball 11 times. The bad misses I remember we're the the K.J. May pass near the sideline (not an easy pass, but one that a big 10 qb needs to make), and the int at halftime. I guess I'm a little surprised at the negativity around ML. The TD pass to Williams was right on the money, and he's hitting the easy throws to open receivers. The pass plays we are running are generally not easy completions, but are also hard to intercept. I don't totally agree with this philosophy, but I guess to this point that is what the game has dictated.
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I could really care less about the overall passing stats (they haven't been pretty though) but I really have a hard time seeing how anyone that has watched the past 2 games can feel good about Leidner and our passing offense right now. We are 2-0 on the strength of strong defensive play and solid running against inferior opponents, but what we are seeing out of the passing game is not going to get it done in the Big Ten and it certainly isn't going to be enough to get teams to not load the box and sell out to stop the run.

What we need is a competent passing attack that teams at least have to respect, so far I haven't seen anything to indicate that we have that right now which is going to be a problem when we go up against defenses that are good against the run. On the QB subject though I am not sold that Streveler is the answer either since all we ever really hear about him is that he is a good runner which while great doesn't address the problem this offense has right now.
 

MNVCGUY said:
I could really care less about the overall passing stats (they haven't been pretty though) but I really have a hard time seeing how anyone that has watched the past 2 games can feel good about Leidner and our passing offense right now. We are 2-0 on the strength of strong defensive play and solid running against inferior opponents, but what we are seeing out of the passing game is not going to get it done in the Big Ten and it certainly isn't going to be enough to get teams to not load the box and sell out to stop the run.

What we need is a competent passing attack that teams at least have to respect, so far I haven't seen anything to indicate that we have that right now which is going to be a problem when we go up against defenses that are good against the run. On the QB subject though I am not sold that Streveler is the answer either since all we ever really hear about him is that he is a good runner which while great doesn't address the problem this offense has right now.
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To be fair, we were saying similar things at this time last year and ended up winning 8 games.
 

M&G BUSt said:
He only threw the ball 11 times. The bad misses I remember we're the the K.J. May pass near the sideline (not an easy pass, but one that a big 10 qb needs to make), and the int at halftime. I guess I'm a little surprised at the negativity around ML. The TD pass to Williams was right on the money, and he's hitting the easy throws to open receivers. The pass plays we are running are generally not easy completions, but are also hard to intercept. I don't totally agree with this philosophy, but I guess to this point that is what the game has dictated.
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I agree I'm a little surprised how much negativity there is around here with Leidner. He definitely has things he needs to improve like getting through his reads rather than just locking in on one receiver and making decisions a little quicker like on the pass to Jones that he waited a split second to long and allowed the safety to get there and break it up. Aside from the interception I thought Leidner's 1st half was pretty decent and the ball seemed to be coming out better than last week, but the 2nd half he struggled a little more with accuracy. I'm not upset at all with only throwing the ball 11 times and having 60 some yards because we rushed for 295 and MTSU wasn't loading the box to try to stop the run so no need to go away from it.
 



Halsey Hall said:
Leidner would be 3rd string at Eastern Ill.
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I don't think that says a whole lot either way though. Eastern Ill runs the complete opposite offense as we do. They also have two experienced transfers. One has started in the SEC, the other started for a team that beat the Gophers not that long ago.
 

Stan The Caddy said:
You miss a guy who cannot start for Jacksonville State? Max Shortell was not a DI QB, plain and simple. I fail to understand how some on here cannot get that through their head.
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It is often said that the second string QB is the most popular player on the team but this must be a first. Shortell couldn't start here and he can't start at his new school but he is now our most popular QB? This deserves today's 'wren' award. Remember, the only basis for awarding the 'wren' award is did it make me laugh and this one did.
 

A. Haters is the go to term for folks that will see only the negative.
B. Shortell? Anyone thinking he could have been an answer is very clueless.
C. Hard to get a lot of yards or completions when given 11 attempts a game.

I'm not an ML7 backer and do not like what I see. Just wanted to provide some context to this savagery.

Sent from my MZ617 using Tapatalk
 

Let's all just calm down, sit back and watch the Vikings today, and see what real QB play looks like.
 



Stan The Caddy said:
You miss a guy who cannot start for Jacksonville State? Max Shortell was not a DI QB, plain and simple. I fail to understand how some on here cannot get that through their head.
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I'm not saying Max is a great QB, simply that I'd rather have him, a Sr. QB with four years in the system & big time starts under his belt than Streveler, an untested Freshman at TCU next week. Wouldn't you?
 

Costa Rican Gopher said:
I'm not saying Max is a great QB, simply that I'd rather have him, a Sr. QB with four years in the system & big time starts under his belt than Streveler, an untested Freshman at TCU next week. Wouldn't you?
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Why would Max have big time starts under his belt? He was never going to start ahead of MG5, PN9, or ML7 because no matter what you think of those guys, Max was worse. He would be a senior with four years in the system & less big time starts than Mitch, the same number as Chris. I would have no interest in having that on my roster.
 

Back in the Mason era, it seems like we always had some SR QB who never played, but was universally described as a "great guy." And every once in a blue moon, the starting QB would get injured and the backup would actually have to play.

The point is - it was a SR backup going into the game, not a RS FR or SO.

If there is one era where Kill & Co are open to genuine criticism, it's the QB position. Granted, some of what happened was outside their control, but it's a problem when you have this much uncertainty at the most important position on the field. Having said that, this is the same coaching staff that recruited and coached Lynch and Harnisch at N. Ill - so the question becomes: did they get stupider after coming to MN, or is this simply bad luck. (which I am tempted to call "Gopher Luck."
 

short ornery norwegian said:
If there is one era where Kill & Co are open to genuine criticism, it's the QB position. Granted, some of what happened was outside their control, but it's a problem when you have this much uncertainty at the most important position on the field.
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This is very well put. Tough to disagree.
 

Spoofin said:
Why would Max have big time starts under his belt? He was never going to start ahead of MG5, PN9, or ML7 because no matter what you think of those guys, Max was worse. He would be a senior with four years in the system & less big time starts than Mitch, the same number as Chris. I would have no interest in having that on my roster.
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Max already had road starts @ Michigan, Purdue & Iowa under his belt, as well as starts against Syracuse (Nationally televised night game), Northwestern & New Hampshire at TCF. He also saw extensive playing time @ USC & at home against New Mexico St, North Dakota St & Western Michigan. You have NO INTEREST in a Sr with this type of experience on your roster as a back-up? Really?
 

short ornery norwegian said:
Back in the Mason era, it seems like we always had some SR QB who never played, but was universally described as a "great guy." And every once in a blue moon, the starting QB would get injured and the backup would actually have to play.

The point is - it was a SR backup going into the game, not a RS FR or SO.

If there is one era where Kill & Co are open to genuine criticism, it's the QB position. Granted, some of what happened was outside their control, but it's a problem when you have this much uncertainty at the most important position on the field. Having said that, this is the same coaching staff that recruited and coached Lynch and Harnisch at N. Ill - so the question becomes: did they get stupider after coming to MN, or is this simply bad luck. (which I am tempted to call "Gopher Luck."
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Precisely my point S.O.N. I'd rather have Tony Mortensen out there this week at TCU than Chris Streveler. Experience & maturity matter.
 

short ornery norwegian said:
Back in the Mason era, it seems like we always had some SR QB who never played, but was universally described as a "great guy." And every once in a blue moon, the starting QB would get injured and the backup would actually have to play.

The point is - it was a SR backup going into the game, not a RS FR or SO.

If there is one era where Kill & Co are open to genuine criticism, it's the QB position. Granted, some of what happened was outside their control, but it's a problem when you have this much uncertainty at the most important position on the field. Having said that, this is the same coaching staff that recruited and coached Lynch and Harnisch at N. Ill - so the question becomes: did they get stupider after coming to MN, or is this simply bad luck. (which I am tempted to call "Gopher Luck."
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The problem is the staff pinned their hopes to Phil and it didn't work out. Gray was already here, and they kept Max because he was the best they could get that late in the recruiting period. Mitch got a scholarship because he had position versatility and they thought he could be either a good back-up QB and possibly start his senior year or become a TE. Streveler, Perra, Rhoda, and McKinzy are all pups, so they can't help us yet. That's our reality...
 

M&G BUSt said:
He only threw the ball 11 times. The bad misses I remember we're the the K.J. May pass near the sideline (not an easy pass, but one that a big 10 qb needs to make), and the int at halftime. I guess I'm a little surprised at the negativity around ML. The TD pass to Williams was right on the money, and he's hitting the easy throws to open receivers. The pass plays we are running are generally not easy completions, but are also hard to intercept. I don't totally agree with this philosophy, but I guess to this point that is what the game has dictated. This is the Big Ten - you have to make those throws !
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Costa Rican Gopher said:
Max already had road starts @ Michigan, Purdue & Iowa under his belt, as well as starts against Syracuse (Nationally televised night game), Northwestern & New Hampshire at TCF. He also saw extensive playing time @ USC & at home against New Mexico St, North Dakota St & Western Michigan. You have NO INTEREST in a Sr with this type of experience on your roster as a back-up? Really?
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Considering I remember Max as he was and not some inflation of what he was; you are correct. I would have no interest in having him on this roster.
 

He was the best passer we have had under Kill . He would be starting right now
 

Costa Rican Gopher said:
Max already had road starts @ Michigan, Purdue & Iowa under his belt, as well as starts against Syracuse (Nationally televised night game), Northwestern & New Hampshire at TCF. He also saw extensive playing time @ USC & at home against New Mexico St, North Dakota St & Western Michigan. You have NO INTEREST in a Sr with this type of experience on your roster as a back-up? Really?
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Yes, I would take Max in a heartbeat right now; not that he would be the starter, not that he's necessarily better than ML7, but a healthy Max against TCU this weekend, as a Senior, I would like the Gophers' chances. I have no idea why he went to JSU, they seem to run an offense not overly different than the Gophers (or at the very least, the QB does a fair amount of running). He played the 3rd quarter against Michigan State on opening weekend and went 10-for-18 for 117 yards and the only TD JSU scored (hard to call it "garbage time" either since it appears he was sacked by Shalique Calhoun on the last play of the 3rd).

CRG is right, it's been a while since this team had an old wily veteran clipboard holder to come in periodically for some meaningful contributions. Remember, it was Tony Mortenson, not Cupito (who got banged up the week before), who just came up short against the Badgers in the infamous '05 blocked punt game.

It's gotta stop sooner or later, right? Playing FR and SO over and over again at the most critical position on the field?

It's early. There's plenty of time for ML7 to lead this team like he has and produce to a level that will make them competitive on a weekly basis on the B1G.
 



Spoofin said:
Considering I remember Max as he was and not some inflation of what he was; you are correct. I would have no interest in having him on this roster.
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You'd rather have a Freshman with no starts under his belt starting at TCU than a Sr with starts against Michigan, Iowa, Purdue, Syracuse, Northwestern, New Hampshire & game experience against USC, NM St, ND St & W Michigan? Alrighty then! :D
 

Put a dark visor on the helmet and send Weber out there in a #7 jersey. The opposition would be none the wiser.
 

Costa Rican Gopher said:
You'd rather have a Freshman with no starts under his belt starting at TCU than a Sr with starts against Michigan, Iowa, Purdue, Syracuse, Northwestern, New Hampshire & game experience against USC, NM St, ND St & W Michigan? Alrighty then! :D
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Well, when you put names with those descriptions I would. I'd rather have Chris Streveler starting Saturday over Max Shortell. I think you bring up good reasoning for the opposite, but I don't agree with that opinion. I'm OK with that.

I hope ML7 is ready to go, but realize we really need him for the B1G season and would be OK seeing what CS5 can do. The staff chose to move Jones to WR last year and leave CS5 at QB for a reason. I will trust that until proven otherwise.

For the record... I am not happy with what I have seen from ML7, but I need to see more than 28 attempts this year before I write him off. I'm still sticking with a 10-2 prediction this year as I think the B1G is weak, Kill knows what he is doing, the D is loaded, our rushing O is elite, and that Mitch will figure 'enough' out.

For the record.... I also think we win Saturday with CS5 or ML7 starting. We are just better then TCU and I trust we will have a good game plan and that we will execute - for whichever QB we have in.
 

Spoofin said:
Well, when you put names with those descriptions I would. I'd rather have Chris Streveler starting Saturday over Max Shortell. I think you bring up good reasoning for the opposite, but I don't agree with that opinion. I'm OK with that.

I hope ML7 is ready to go, but realize we really need him for the B1G season and would be OK seeing what CS5 can do. The staff chose to move Jones to WR last year and leave CS5 at QB for a reason. I will trust that until proven otherwise.

For the record... I am not happy with what I have seen from ML7, but I need to see more than 28 attempts this year before I write him off. I'm still sticking with a 10-2 prediction this year as I think the B1G is weak, Kill knows what he is doing, the D is loaded, our rushing O is elite, and that Mitch will figure 'enough' out.

For the record.... I also think we win Saturday with CS5 or ML7 starting. We are just better then TCU and I trust we will have a good game plan and that we will execute - for whichever QB we have in.
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I'm not a Mitch Leidner hater. Not sure where you got that idea? Leidner isn't great, but he's good enough to win with & is very much a work in progress. I have no idea what his ceiling is? What I'm saying is we have no QB depth behind him. We fall completely off the map. Streveler didn't have a single snap in college until last week & still has no meaningful game experience. Perra is a true Freshman, walk-on, who's never taken a single snap in college. That's our depth chart, it's hard to sugar coat it. I can't imagine why anyone outside of the Streveler family would rather have him start at TCU than an experienced veteran like Shortell who played in high pressure college games, but you do. Shortell had a lot of downs (@ Michigan, ouch!), but he also had some ups. I'll never forget him getting us back in the game @ USC in relief of Q, or him beating the Cuse on National TV @ TCF. I think he'd give us a better chance of winning next week. My .02
 

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