Quarterback Position

The problem is the staff pinned their hopes to Phil and it didn't work out. Gray was already here, and they kept Max because he was the best they could get that late in the recruiting period. Mitch got a scholarship because he had position versatility and they thought he could be either a good back-up QB and possibly start his senior year or become a TE. Streveler, Perra, Rhoda, and McKinzy are all pups, so they can't help us yet. That's our reality...

They might have "pinned their hopes" on Nelson, but if so they sure used him wrongly. Nelson was a throwing QB, and they wouldn't let him throw. Eventually, it seemed to get into his head. We may already be seeing that with Leidner - he just never can get into a groove because he's never allowed to do it.

There will be one game left in order to "practice" throwing the ball. Just like there were already two games this year where we could have practiced, and just like there were four games last year to practice the throwing game, the staff chooses to use that "practice" time on what I can only assume is an attempt to perfect dive runs.

I really wish the team would use those opportunities to improve the QB (or, in last year's case, just keep the quality QB happy and not frustrated), instead.
 

That's quite an indictment of Kill and Company's QBs.

Lets not forget that Kill has been trotting out underclassmen at QB for the last three years. It's not like the QB is a 5th year senior making these mistakes.
 

They might have "pinned their hopes" on Nelson, but if so they sure used him wrongly. Nelson was a throwing QB, and they wouldn't let him throw.

They let him throw against Purdue in 2012, and he torched them. Ever since then, QB play has been miserable, except against IU last year.
 

I just hope Leidner can play on Saturday. He hasn't impressed me thus far this year, but at times he did have some success last year, and I think he gives us the best chance to win. I agree with those who are concerned about our QB depth chart, but for the long run, I think we have to keep in mind that Kill had a pretty good QB at Northern Illinois in Chandler Harnish and recruited a pretty good one in Jordan Lynch. If he could do it there , he should be able to do it here.
 

I'm not a Mitch Leidner hater. Not sure where you got that idea? Leidner isn't great, but he's good enough to win with & is very much a work in progress. I have no idea what his ceiling is? What I'm saying is we have no QB depth behind him. We fall completely off the map. Streveler didn't have a single snap in college until last week & still has no meaningful game experience. Perra is a true Freshman, walk-on, who's never taken a single snap in college. That's our depth chart, it's hard to sugar coat it. I can't imagine why anyone outside of the Streveler family would rather have him start at TCU than an experienced veteran like Shortell who played in high pressure college games, but you do. Shortell had a lot of downs (@ Michigan, ouch!), but he also had some ups. I'll never forget him getting us back in the game @ USC in relief of Q, or him beating the Cuse on National TV @ TCF. I think he'd give us a better chance of winning next week. My .02

I don't think your a Liedner hater. I think you give Shortell way too much credit. CRG- it is OK that we disagree on this. No need to take it personal.
 


Kill has a history of producing all-conference QBs. Mitch does not look like an all-B1G QB, yet, but when they handed him the reigns in January, they knew what they were doing. ML has a lot of upside. He's big, strong, fast enough, and I think his arm strength is good. As he gains confidence and develops chemistry with the receivers, our pass attack will become more dangerous. If he doesn't have to sit this week, I expect he will make progress and will be increasingly more effective as the season progresses.
 

Kill has a history of producing all-conference QBs. Mitch does not look like an all-B1G QB, yet, but when they handed him the reigns in January, they knew what they were doing. ML has a lot of upside. He's big, strong, fast enough, and I think his arm strength is good. As he gains confidence and develops chemistry with the receivers, our pass attack will become more dangerous. If he doesn't have to sit this week, I expect he will make progress and will be increasingly more effective as the season progresses.

You do get that he was the only returning QB with any experience and the guy directly behind him was hurt most of last year which I am sure slowed his development. After that you have a collection of true freshmen and walk-ons. Seems like a pretty obvious choice to me to hand the team to Mitch in that case. Not saying he won't become a good QB for us at some point but let's not pretend that Kill's plan all along was to have Mitch Liedner as his QB of the future. The plan was for Nelson to be the guy, that didn't pan out so now they are trying to make the best of what they have available.
 

Lots of passion breaking down three below average Quarterbacks.

Nelson career 50% completion % 14 ints.
Leidner career 53.7% 2 ints.
Shortell career 55%. 15 ints.

I think most can agree that the staff needs to recruit some better options.

As the boys on BTN Final Drive say. Minnesota just keep doing what you're doing run the ball and play defense and you will be in the mix.
 

Your points are well-taken, but not accurate, so let's be accurate. Do you know Nelson was the guy in Kill's "plan"? Fact is you do not. When they took over the program, which those of you with more historical knowledge seem to agree, there was huge need for reclamation. The QB for a championship team is vital. Kill even said so in a clip during Saturday's broadcast. Their "plan" is to build a program and they have done a remarkable job of putting this team in position to contend with a solid (genius?) philosophy of establishing and developing areas that can get them into the mix at the end of games. Marquiese was a stud, but not a stud QB. Shortell was unable (unwilling?) to develop. I think they got what they could in recruiting and when Mitch and Nelson came in, they realized Nelson was the guy to burn the red-shirt on because ML had the potential to lead us in contention.
 



Lets not forget that Kill has been trotting out underclassmen at QB for the last three years. It's not like the QB is a 5th year senior making these mistakes.

You're saying that all the FBS teams out there that have a competent Passing game are using 5th Year Seniors? 80% of them? 60? 20?

Or are you just saying "blame Brewster"? Pretty late for that isn't it?

Kill and Company have done a good job at nearly everything here, except they've yet to recruit a competent QB.
 

Last time I watched the B1G West, which was Saturday, no other team has a consistent option at QB.

Last time I watched the Gophers, which was Saturday, we improved to a 2-0 record, lead our opponent 35-0 at one point and rushed for nearly 300 yards on the day. Iowa rushed for 113 against a MAC team, and Wisconsin's best player (Gordon) rushed for only 38 yards on 17 attempts. UW's QB started slow and picked up his game, sure, but things didn't start clicking until the 2nd half.

We have scored the majority of our points in the first half, and have created opportunities on defense/special teams. If these trends continue into the B1G season, I would be plenty happy with this team. We build solid leads early and have been able to hold a lead thus far in the season.

Pound the rock. The passing game will develop if we stick to our identity. The reason the passing game fails is when we completely throw our identity out the window (see: the Iowa game last year). Our QBs will be fine. I hope Leidner is good to go. I hope he continues to develop. He has shown flashes of ability, and he seems to lack some of the head scratchers that Nelson committed.
 

Your points are well-taken, but not accurate, so let's be accurate. Do you know Nelson was the guy in Kill's "plan"? Fact is you do not. When they took over the program, which those of you with more historical knowledge seem to agree, there was huge need for reclamation. The QB for a championship team is vital. Kill even said so in a clip during Saturday's broadcast. Their "plan" is to build a program and they have done a remarkable job of putting this team in position to contend with a solid (genius?) philosophy of establishing and developing areas that can get them into the mix at the end of games. Marquiese was a stud, but not a stud QB. Shortell was unable (unwilling?) to develop. I think they got what they could in recruiting and when Mitch and Nelson came in, they realized Nelson was the guy to burn the red-shirt on because ML had the potential to lead us in contention.

Wow....just wow....so this revolving door at the QB position was all part of the plan....got it. Apparently all the Nelson hype was 100% fan generated and the coaching staff knew all along that the guy most thought would end up as a TE was really the guy that was going to lead us to contention. Clearly we are going to have to agree to disagree on this one.

One point I will add though is Shortell got caught in the coaching change, he was never a good fit for Kill's offense because is isn't a good runner. It wasn't a development issue.
 

FWIW, I thought Mitch was really struggling when watching him at the game, looked like he was missing and making poor decisions.
Then I rewatched from the broadcast, a few things:

I'm not sure we've ran more than 5 passing plays all year so far. In listening to Kill in the postgame interview he sure seemed like the second half they were just going to try and run the ball until the game was over.

Mitch was inconsistent, but not horrible. His worst decision was the INT before the half, and I think he was basically taking a dagger shot to Maye, had it worked he'd have been 6-9 for 2 TDs and around 100 yards, and up 35-0. Kill chewed him one after that, but I guess I'd rather have an aggressive QB than a super conservative one. Lesson hopefully learned and we move on.

The second half was a slopfest overall, and the team was definitely trying to just run the ball and be done. 2 pass attempts in the second half.
Let's hope Mitch is healthy, and if not expect a 2013 San Jose St game type strategy with Streveler against TCU. Might work, might not.
 



Kill has a history of producing all-conference QBs. Mitch does not look like an all-B1G QB, yet, but when they handed him the reigns in January, they knew what they were doing. ML has a lot of upside. He's big, strong, fast enough, and I think his arm strength is good. As he gains confidence and develops chemistry with the receivers, our pass attack will become more dangerous. If he doesn't have to sit this week, I expect he will make progress and will be increasingly more effective as the season progresses.

Thank you for clarifying that you don't think Mitch looks like an All-B1G QB... yet.
 

Last time I watched the B1G West, which was Saturday, no other team has a consistent option at QB.

Last time I watched the Gophers, which was Saturday, we improved to a 2-0 record, lead our opponent 35-0 at one point and rushed for nearly 300 yards on the day. Iowa rushed for 113 against a MAC team, and Wisconsin's best player (Gordon) rushed for only 38 yards on 17 attempts. UW's QB started slow and picked up his game, sure, but things didn't start clicking until the 2nd half.

We have scored the majority of our points in the first half, and have created opportunities on defense/special teams. If these trends continue into the B1G season, I would be plenty happy with this team. We build solid leads early and have been able to hold a lead thus far in the season.

Pound the rock. The passing game will develop if we stick to our identity. The reason the passing game fails is when we completely throw our identity out the window (see: the Iowa game last year). Our QBs will be fine. I hope Leidner is good to go. I hope he continues to develop. He has shown flashes of ability, and he seems to lack some of the head scratchers that Nelson committed.

You must have been at a different Iowa game last year.
 


F
I'm not sure we've ran more than 5 passing plays all year so far.

I think the proper English is, "I'm not sure we've done run more than 5 passing plays all year so far. "
 

You must have been at a different Iowa game last year.

Nope. I watched the same game as you.

We came out in 3 WR sets on 50% of our plays and abandoned most of our bread and butter run formations almost the entire time. The players weren't used to it at all, and the production went away. This offense wasn't built to throw the ball a lot. We went back to that identity after the Iowa game. What happens two weeks later? A 4 game B1G winning streak and consistent QB play that was at the top of the conference for those four weeks.

To jog your memory, here is the write up from the TDG from the Iowa game. What does it mean? Stick with your offensive identity, and the QBs will have better success.

http://www.thedailygopher.com/2013/...a-football-the-actual-uncomfortable-questions
 



Gopherdrummer;931114[B said:
]Last time I watched the B1G West, which was Saturday, no other team has a consistent option at QB.[/B]

Last time I watched the Gophers, which was Saturday, we improved to a 2-0 record, lead our opponent 35-0 at one point and rushed for nearly 300 yards on the day. Iowa rushed for 113 against a MAC team, and Wisconsin's best player (Gordon) rushed for only 38 yards on 17 attempts. UW's QB started slow and picked up his game, sure, but things didn't start clicking until the 2nd half.

We have scored the majority of our points in the first half, and have created opportunities on defense/special teams. If these trends continue into the B1G season, I would be plenty happy with this team. We build solid leads early and have been able to hold a lead thus far in the season.

Pound the rock. The passing game will develop if we stick to our identity. The reason the passing game fails is when we completely throw our identity out the window (see: the Iowa game last year). Our QBs will be fine. I hope Leidner is good to go. I hope he continues to develop. He has shown flashes of ability, and he seems to lack some of the head scratchers that Nelson committed.

No kidding, and most of them looked pretty bad too didn't they? So the line of thinking is that "sure we have a terrible passing game but the other teams in our division do too!" I like that.

As for OUR Passing Game, last year shows that we won a single B1G game with lousy passing. Not fair, the passing against NW wan't that bad. The 4 of the 5 games Minnesota lost featured lousy passing games though.

The Iowa game you mentioned? 12/24 for 135 yards, 1 TD and 2 Interceptions.

Michigan? Better, but only 14/21, 145 yards, 1 TD and 1 INT.

F-ing Sconnies? Horrible. SEVEN for 23, 83 yards, no TD but not INT either.

MSU; SIX for 18, 77 yards, no TD and 2 Interceptions.

And finally the Orange in the Texas Bowl. They were only 11/22 but for 205 yards, 2 TDs, there first TD since the 1st Half against Wisconsin (!). Mitch was one dropped pass away from a 3rd TD and a victory, that gave us all a lot of hope.

Any semblance of a Passing Game and they win 3 or 4 of those games. Easily probably, because the 4 victories had Passing games ate-up 186, 289, 152 and 112 yards, in reverse order. They didn't though, because teams started to put 8-9 guys upfront and dared the Gophers to throw. Memory and a simple google search supports the theory.

This year the Defense and Special teams have done a great job scoring and setting-up scores. Good for them. The Offense is going have to learn how to move the ball through the air because most of the teams we will play from here on in will all sellout against the run and unlike the Panthers and Blue Raiders, most will have the personnel to do it.

Oh, and we need to hope that the Big Ten West stays bad at throwing the ball themselves. Pretty sure that 6, 8 or 12 completions won't get it done for us if they don't. Unless 5-6 of those passes go for Touchdowns. :)
 

One point I will add though is Shortell got caught in the coaching change, he was never a good fit for Kill's offense because is isn't a good runner. It wasn't a development issue.

Not only was Shortell not a very good fit, he really wasn't that good. How do I know that? He's not a first, but a second string QB at Jacksonville State. JSU is in the Ohio Valley Conference with such powerhouses as Austin Peay, Tennessee-Martin, etc. I'm not knocking these teams per se, but I am saying that starting at a Power 5 Conference and playing second fiddle in the Ohio Valley Conference is telling.

Leidner isn't a great passer, but there is way more to being a QB than only passing. I agree with most of your analysis, but I think you're painting this entire situation with too broad of a stroke. IMO. Cheers.
 

Sigh. Since their arrival the staff has been adjusting to the personnel, the school's (football program) perception among recruits. Since the QB position is vital, and get's the most exposure, it's also by far the toughest job in sports. Only an idiot would think a veteran staff planned on a revolving door. But, a savvy observer would see that they are trying to win games, while building a strong foundation that will put them in place once the trigger man is found. I don't know if ML will be that guy, but I do see enough things -- and so did Kill in January -- that he's ready for the challenge.

As for Shortell, they've had several QBs that aren't quite the perfect fit, but have a history of improving QB weaknesses if they have other strengths to build on. Shortell digressed in areas of weakness. I think ML is showing signs of improving his.
 

Lots of passion breaking down three below average Quarterbacks.

Nelson career 50% completion % 14 ints.
Leidner career 53.7% 2 ints.
Shortell career 55%. 15 ints.

I think most can agree that the staff needs to recruit some better options.

As the boys on BTN Final Drive say. Minnesota just keep doing what you're doing run the ball and play defense and you will be in the mix.

overuse of Cobb right now.. because we can't spread the ball around on offense.. and have zero confidence in QB.
against MTSU, Cobb should have had 15 - 18 carries.. that he had 30 is troubling..
Cobb is plan A, B, and C?

"Everybody has a plan until they get punched in the mouth." - Mike Tyson
 

Sigh. Since their arrival the staff has been adjusting to the personnel, the school's (football program) perception among recruits. Since the QB position is vital, and get's the most exposure, it's also by far the toughest job in sports. Only an idiot would think a veteran staff planned on a revolving door. But, a savvy observer would see that they are trying to win games, while building a strong foundation that will put them in place once the trigger man is found. I don't know if ML will be that guy, but I do see enough things -- and so did Kill in January -- that he's ready for the challenge.

As for Shortell, they've had several QBs that aren't quite the perfect fit, but have a history of improving QB weaknesses if they have other strengths to build on. Shortell digressed in areas of weakness. I think ML is showing signs of improving his.

"Sigh". :confused: A savvy observer would notice the failures of the Passing Game, and how they are going to need it in Saturday's game and the Big Ten season. A P.R. guy would keep telling people to ignore their own eyes and that any criticism was based on ignorance.

Guessing Kill and Company certainly understand. Maybe they can explain it to you.
 

Recruiting a good/great college QB has to be tough. Getting one to come to a school that brags about and has a history of "run first, last and always" must be very tough indeed.

Now, for that school to recruit great H.S. running backs? :drink:
 

overuse of Cobb right now.. because we can't spread the ball around on offense.. and have zero confidence in QB.
against MTSU, Cobb should have had 15 - 18 carries.. that he had 30 is troubling..
Cobb is plan A, B, and C?

"Everybody has a plan until they get punched in the mouth." - Mike Tyson
You realize we have two bye weeks this year? I think the two big issues are: 1. Wolitarsky injury 2. Holding back on use of Maxx Williams.
 

I didn't say there wasn't room for improvement in the passing game and that we're ready for primetime, but focusing on those areas with a veteran, proven staff gives me encouragement that they can. No doubt they will need a bigger threat from the passing game as the schedule gets tougher, but we're 2-0 and I feel very confident in our signature run offense at this stage. DC has so many subtle skills and our line and schemes will open up pass plays, which ML can exploit. As he develops, I think he will.
 

No kidding, and most of them looked pretty bad too didn't they? So the line of thinking is that "sure we have a terrible passing game but the other teams in our division do too!" I like that.

As for OUR Passing Game, last year shows that we won a single B1G game with lousy passing. Not fair, the passing against NW wan't that bad. The 4 of the 5 games Minnesota lost featured lousy passing games though.

The Iowa game you mentioned? 12/24 for 135 yards, 1 TD and 2 Interceptions.

Michigan? Better, but only 14/21, 145 yards, 1 TD and 1 INT.

F-ing Sconnies? Horrible. SEVEN for 23, 83 yards, no TD but not INT either.

MSU; SIX for 18, 77 yards, no TD and 2 Interceptions.

And finally the Orange in the Texas Bowl. They were only 11/22 but for 205 yards, 2 TDs, there first TD since the 1st Half against Wisconsin (!). Mitch was one dropped pass away from a 3rd TD and a victory, that gave us all a lot of hope.

Any semblance of a Passing Game and they win 3 or 4 of those games. Easily probably, because the 4 victories had Passing games ate-up 186, 289, 152 and 112 yards, in reverse order. They didn't though, because teams started to put 8-9 guys upfront and dared the Gophers to throw. Memory and a simple google search supports the theory.

This year the Defense and Special teams have done a great job scoring and setting-up scores. Good for them. The Offense is going have to learn how to move the ball through the air because most of the teams we will play from here on in will all sellout against the run and unlike the Panthers and Blue Raiders, most will have the personnel to do it.

Oh, and we need to hope that the Big Ten West stays bad at throwing the ball themselves. Pretty sure that 6, 8 or 12 completions won't get it done for us if they don't. Unless 5-6 of those passes go for Touchdowns. :)

Valid points, yes. But the passing game isn't the only variable:

Iowa game: didn't run our base offense (see my other post)
Michigan: Only gained 136 yards rushing. My guess is we also didn't completely run our base offense - I could be wrong, I didn't get to watch this game

B1G winning streak - implement shifts and motions and the offense wakes up for four games. We go crazy on the ground and become pretty efficient in the passing game (not blazing, but efficient)

Wisconsin and MSU - we faced the two best defenses in the conference and the offense couldn't get a rhythm. The run game had some success against UW early, but turnovers would kill the momentum and the passing game never showed up when we tried to force it. If the offense wakes up against MSU, we may actually win that game. But their defense killed any momentum.

These first two games were treated like NFL preseason games. Mitch didn't run the read option a lot against EIU and we had committed to working the passing game a bunch.

This isn't an exact science, it is football. Agree that we need a consistent QB, but there is a lot of pessimism on this board for a team who is 2-0. Plenty of other teams in the B1G would like to have our record with our performances. TCU will provide some answers about this offense. Keep pounding the ball, keep 3rd downs at a short distance, and I believe the passing game will open up.
 

I really don't like our offensive system. It's run it up the middle or do something really slow. Get the ball outside to our playmakes quickly.....not at a snail's pace. It's 2014 and the Big Ten. You have to be able to throw the ball and do it more than 6 or 7 times a game.

Anyone watch the Vike game yesterday? Patterson's TD run? Shifted into the back-field, then took a 'quick pitch' to the outside. By the time Patterson turned that up-field, our Gopher's QB would still have the ball in his hand.

The games evolves and coaches adapt. Will Kill and Co.? May be hard to recruit a good passer to this offense.
 




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