Philip Nelson Is Leaving The Gopher Program UPDATED 1/29: Transferring to Rutgers

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John Galt said:
I appreciate you and others trying to bring stats into play, but here is why they mean little in this situation:

1. Comparing stats from Mitch's freshman year to Nelson's freshman year is misleading because Mitch got a redshirt year.
2. Not only did Mitch get a redshirt year, he enrolled early. (Nelson did too but I'm comparing him to the other QBs). So Mitch had been on campus for 2 full fall camps, 2 full spring camps, and all of the other off-season workouts before he got his first game action against UNLV the end of August. That's about 20 months on campus, vs. some of the other freshman listed who had been here for 2-3 months before seeing their first game action.
3. Michigan was the only game where we got to see Mitch's full body of work, and we ended up with 13 points against a marginal Michigan team. All of his other stats came in mop up duty (UNLV, SJSU) or spot duty. Not a fair comparison when Nelson played almost the entire game against some stout defenses (Michigan St., Iowa, Wisky). Again, that's not Mitch's fault, it's just not an accurate comparison. The only game out of 13 where Mitch clearly outplayed Phil was Syracuse.
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Thanks. And apologies if I was an ass in my first response. We disagreed on Leidner being the worst Gophers QB in 30 years. Also, the data only showed player stats during their first year of at least 20 pass attempts, so freshmen were not the only ones listed (e.g. Marqueis Gray). Thanks for your thoughts.
 

Winnipegopher said:
It is a blow but really lets wait and see where Nelson lands.

Shortell starts as a freshman and goes to FCS, Barker "stars" as a junior and has so much baggage he goes nowhere, Harbison goes from potental difference maker to D-2 and MacDonald transfers to a D-3. That says a lot about the talent level of the transfers. If Nelson doesn't go to a BCS school, that will say a lot about his talent level, but unfortunately it also says a lot about the Gophers' talent level as well.
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Players transferring to lower competition isn't indicative of talent. You can't tell me Andre McDonald is less talented than Isaac Fruechte. Many times guys transfer to be closer to home, that can often mean D2 or D3. many times guys want to play right away, so instead of learning a new system at the D1 level and competing for a couple of years that they don't have, they instead step into lower competition to accelerate the process. There are endless reasons for transferring down in competition level & rarely (imo) is it because they're not talented enough to play D1.
 


Dr.Don said:
Look, guys. Nelson is gone, Leidner and Streveler are here, can we cut the PC's about things we will never know anymore about than our current opinions and expertise.

This thread can be locked anytime.
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No. This will be the #1 topic all through the off season & through Spring/Fall camps. Deal with it.
 

Costa Rican Gopher said:
No. This will be the #1 topic all through the off season & through Spring/Fall camps. Deal with it.
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So we're gonna be debating whether this team is better off with or without Nelson through fall camp? How about we quit the bickering BS over someone that will never wear a Gopher uniform again and talk about players that will actually be on the roster when the season starts.
 


TheMonsignor said:
I think this is a tough loss for you guys, but it isn't the end of the world.

I liked Nelson; he struck me as pretty smart and a tough kid. He wasn't quite as accurate as you would want, but you have to expect that 50% completion rate to climb toward 60% in his junior and senior years. Losing the experience (played in what, 20 games?), and the fact that a lot of folks thought he was sort of the face of the team has to hurt. I think Nelson had some decent upside.

I didn't see Leidner enough to compare, but you are starting out new again. Hard to get consistency when your QB is always new. I'd caution putting too much emphasis on one bowl game performance, either way.

I could see him ending up at a MAC school or some place like that. He's certainly got the size and toughness to play.

I take Nelson's statement at face value. As I read it, he is saying "I want to be a passing QB and Minnesota doesn't pass enough and makes me run the ball too much." I wonder if he was worried about getting hurt.

Anyway, that is my $0.02. It doesn't help the Gopher program, but Kill is headed in the right direction and will get there eventually. This will be a little detour, but I don't think it is a killer.
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Monsignor,

1. What did you do with "The Slab of Bacon?" Did you pawn it?

2. Why did you pawn the axe at some joint in South Bend? How much Vigorish were / are you paying on it, and what is it going to take to get the original one back? Or did the Pawn shop already repossess it and sold it to some Arab sheik?

3. Trophies should never be entrusted to Badgers. They drink and gamble away all their money, and then have to hock the family jewels.
 

cjcarter8 said:
So we're gonna be debating whether this team is better off with or without Nelson through fall camp? How about we quit the bickering BS over someone that will never wear a Gopher uniform again and talk about players that will actually be on the roster when the season starts.
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Wishful thinking. There are still Mason debates on here weekly.
 


Another aspect to ponder:
Which QB do you want leading your team:
one who wants to be part of the team, or one who has doubts about whether his skills fit in the offensive system?

An unhappy player can lead to big problems in the locker room. If Nelson does not want to be at the U, that is his choice, and I wish him the best. But, if he doesn't want to be here, or doesn't believe that he and the coaches are on the same wavelength, then it's better for everyone that he left.

My bottom line - the Gophers play a run-first system. They don't need an "elite" QB to be successful. they need a QB who can run the ball, make the zone read, and throw the play-action pass to the TE's and the occasional down-field shot to the WR's. I think Leidner is perfectly capable of filling that role. And, if he gets hurt, and the younger QB's aren't ready - what about D. Jones in a wildcat/QB role ala Gray?
 



cjcarter8 said:
So we're gonna be debating whether this team is better off with or without Nelson through fall camp? How about we quit the bickering BS over someone that will never wear a Gopher uniform again and talk about players that will actually be on the roster when the season starts.
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Hate to break it to you but this isn't going away. This will be the main focus of every single season preview, B1G network will cover it & prepare yourself for the first egg (and every subsequent egg) Leidner lays because the "Phil Nelson would have won that game" theme is going to be common I predict.
 

huckx008 said:
This is a tough blow. The circumstances are unfortunate for both Philip Nelson and the Gopher program. Nelson seemed to have the physical tools and smarts to play the position, but never gained the confidence. Unfortunately, Philip was thrown into a tough situation and faced many hurdles from the start: a) having to start in a bad offense as a true freshman ; b) not being able to attend quarterback camps after his freshman season; c) losing his best receiver midseason; d) three primary targets being freshman e) being injured entering the Big Ten season; f) having a floundering offense again this season. The bottom line is that throughout his development he was never able to develop confidence or rhythm, for whatever reason. A fresh start is what he needs and I don't blame him - just tough to be on the other side.

I don't think Leidner can be the guy. Doesn't know the offense well enough and can't throw on the run. Hopefully the coaches know something we don't about Streveler.
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huckx008,

1. I believe Philip Nelson had better command of the play book than Mitch Leidner did in 2013. We will always be indebted to Philip for the 4 game win streak and most especially for leading us to victory over Nebraska, our first victory against Big Red in 53 years. That puts him in an elite place in Golden Gopher history books forever. Did the concussion(s) affect Philip's ability to pass? Did it affect his ability to hand off the ball on the jet sweep? Something did not seem right during the last 3 games for him. Did we throw him back in action too soon, like a G.I. with TBI being sent back out on another deployment too soon? Maybe he should have been given more time to heal. I think TBI is uncharted neurological territory. I think neurology / psychiatry are 150 years behind the rest of the medical profession that treats the other organs and muscular / skeletal systems. I am no MD so all you medical types feel free to start throwing rotten eggs and tomatoes at me. I hope for nothing but the best for Philip, who was a great Maroon and Gold warrior. I am very proud of him and I will always be grateful he took the field for us wearing maroon and gold.

2. I think Mitch fumbled the ball too much at the beginning of 2013. I think he had more trouble remembering the play book. Mitch still has to work on protecting the football. He tends to lose it. But Mitch is big, is extremely durable, runs well, loves smash mouth football, does not get injured, has flashes of brilliance, and this is what makes me optimistic about 2014. If Mitch had played the entire game against Syracuse, I think we would have had a win.

3. I never thought we would have 8 wins without A. J. Barker, but Philip Nelson and the rest of the team proved this incorrect. We will be OK. We always lose players by attrition, whether it be graduation, academic ineligibility, injury, or family problems. It happens. We move on. We will be OK.

4. God bless Philip Nelson and may he enjoy great success and happiness in whatever endeavors he engages in. Thanks for all the memories Philip!
 






Costa Rican Gopher said:
Players transferring to lower competition isn't indicative of talent. You can't tell me Andre McDonald is less talented than Isaac Fruechte. Many times guys transfer to be closer to home, that can often mean D2 or D3. many times guys want to play right away, so instead of learning a new system at the D1 level and competing for a couple of years that they don't have, they instead step into lower competition to accelerate the process. There are endless reasons for transferring down in competition level & rarely (imo) is it because they're not talented enough to play D1.
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No, but often it's because the talent/skill wasn't at the level the kid or the recruiter thought it was when he was being recruited. (imo)
 





Killjoy said:
Besides, we will also need to "discuss" the star ranking system.
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And on the BB forum about the importance of free throws and whether or not rebounds off free throws should count.
 




We can probably get rid of the "Breaking News" portion of the title. No?
 

Iceland12 said:
If he ends-up at UCLA any chance that people will quit posting that "of course he should had stayed, because he is better than Leidner"?
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Will signing with Texas Tech put the "Nelson has a weak arm, no accuracy & isn't even a D1 talent" posts to bed?
 


Pompous Elitist said:
I would (strongly) argue the main reason for the 4 game win streak was our defense, not QB play. Go back and watch the Neb game on Big Ten 2 Go. Our defense manhandled nebraska. They beat them up, tore off their faces and spit them out. It was inspiring to watch.

Phil played well but he played about as well as a 2nd year starter SHOULD be playing. He was a decent QB during that stretch but nothing heisman-worthy like some of you seem to think. The problem is the other 13-14 games he played in where he was far below decent.

I rewatched the Michigan game last night and came away somewhat encouraged. Leidner has real potential. He played pretty well in the Big House except for a few freshman mistakes. He was a machine in the SJSU game. He will get better with the mistakes.

All is not lost. The future can be bright if Kill can maintain a decent defense going forward and Leidner or Streveler steps up.
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I agree our D played really well during that stretch and was a contributing factor in the TEAM winning those 4 games in a row. But in the Nebraska game our D didn't throw a cold blooded touchdown on 4th down, or run in 2 scores. I'm not saying Nelson is the QB we've been waiting for or he is elite or anything. My only point was that the team is not better off losing its most experienced QB. Especially since our QBs get banged up so often. We NEED 2 guys and having a 3rd is probably fairly important too.
 

bottlebass said:
My only point was that the team is not better off losing its most experienced QB. Especially since our QBs get banged up so often. We NEED 2 guys and having a 3rd is probably fairly important too.
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If for no reason other than if the starting QB has his helmet knocked off and (by rule) has to leave the field for at least one play. If that comes during an important part of the game, I would prefer a QB with experience to take that snap.
 


bottlebass said:
I agree our D played really well during that stretch and was a contributing factor in the TEAM winning those 4 games in a row. But in the Nebraska game our D didn't throw a cold blooded touchdown on 4th down, or run in 2 scores. I'm not saying Nelson is the QB we've been waiting for or he is elite or anything. My only point was that the team is not better off losing its most experienced QB. Especially since our QBs get banged up so often. We NEED 2 guys and having a 3rd is probably fairly important too.
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100%.
 

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