Philip Nelson Is Leaving The Gopher Program UPDATED 1/29: Transferring to Rutgers

[John Galt]

Assuming he starts next year....

He started games this year.

 

[Costa Rican Gopher]

I know what you're saying, Costa... But I'm with DH on this one:

2013 season, entering UNLV game: True SO Nelson, with 7 games of PT under his belt, 2nd year in the system; RS FR Leidner, zero game experience, 2nd year in the system.

2014 season, entering E. Illinois game: RS SO Leidner, with 10 games of PT under his belt, 3rd year in the system; RS FR Streveler, zero game experience, 2nd year in the system.

AND, the team will likely be significantly better at most positions, certainly they will on every other position on the offensive side of the ball (provided Christenson and Bak return 100%). It hurts the depth, no doubt about it, not to mention turnover just isn't really a good thing. But it's far from catastrophic.

I shook my head at the time over all the people pulling their hair out over burning Nelson's RS in the 2012 season. I bet several Gopher friends of mine various chunks of cash at the time that Nelson wouldn't be the starter entering the 2015 season; not because he wasn't THAT good, but just because you never know...

I understood it to mean we'd be better off in 2014 than were a week ago with Nelson.

 

[GoldyIsABoss]

This isn't a huge loss---just very surprising

 

[tikited]

14-21, 1 TD, 1 INT, and a few fumbles is good? I will grant you that it was his best game.

I think Leidner has no business being a D-1 QB, and is the worst starting QB for the Gophers that I've seen in the last 30 years. My opinion.

Nelson had a bad freshman year and an average, at best, sophomore year. Leidner's freshman year was much better than Nelson's. Neither are good qb's right now.

 

[die hard gopher]

14-21, 1 TD, 1 INT, and a few fumbles is good? I will grant you that it was his best game.

I think Leidner has no business being a D-1 QB, and is the worst starting QB for the Gophers that I've seen in the last 30 years. My opinion.

6-4 230 with a 4.6 40 isn't D-1? he is no worse then MarQueis and that guy is in the NFL. Leidner was very efficient for the Michigan game. i felt like he could be a top 3 QB in the conference after that game by his senior year. San Jose St. wasn't good either?

 

[tikited]

I'm sure Bielema is under some pressure from a passionate SEC fanbase. A career 50% passer transferring from Minnesota may just extend his honeymoon.

But what about that greatest four game winning streak ever?

 

[Costa Rican Gopher]

6-4 230 with a 4.6 40 isn't D-1? he is no worse then MarQueis and that guy is in the NFL. Leidner was very efficient for the Michigan game. i felt like he could be a top 3 QB in the conference after that game by his senior year. San Jose St. wasn't good either?

 

[bottlebass]

I know what you're saying, Costa... But I'm with DH on this one:

2013 season, entering UNLV game: True SO Nelson, with 7 games of PT under his belt, 2nd year in the system; RS FR Leidner, zero game experience, 2nd year in the system.

2014 season, entering E. Illinois game: RS SO Leidner, with 10 games of PT under his belt, 3rd year in the system; RS FR Streveler, zero game experience, 2nd year in the system.

AND, the team will likely be significantly better at most positions, certainly they will on every other position on the offensive side of the ball (provided Christenson and Bak return 100%). It hurts the depth, no doubt about it, not to mention turnover just isn't really a good thing. But it's far from catastrophic.

I shook my head at the time over all the people pulling their hair out over burning Nelson's RS in the 2012 season. I bet several Gopher friends of mine various chunks of cash at the time that Nelson wouldn't be the starter entering the 2015 season; not because he wasn't THAT good, but just because you never know...

I've been trying to avoid posting on this topic for various reasons but I'm just too sick of the mindset "we are better off than last year at QB".

Even if you think Leidner is the better QB what are the chances he will play a whole season for us without leaving a game banged up or missing a game with an injury? Having an experienced QB (nelson) who led the team to our first 4 game conference win streak since before I was alive as a backup is eons better... With the system they are running our QBs will continue to get banged up and having depth and experience is going to be key to future success and is one of the (major FREAKIN) reasons why were were able to have a successful year.... Now that's lost.

Also i make the same assumption costan rican gopher made that people are comparing being better off in this upcoming season than we were a week ago. Your comparisons of 2013 and 2014 seasons are irrelevant because the 2014 season should have read:

So Leidner Lots of experience Jr Nelson lots of experience won us biggest games in forever RS Fresh streveler no experience but will need to be ready when 1 and 2 get hurt

 

[Cobra]

I wonder if the coaching staff will ponder using Donovahn Jones at QB moving forward?

 

[Breakin' The Plane]

Sometimes a change is just better for everyone involved. I think this hurts because of what Nelson could have been. With a new coach and a pretty highly regarded in-state recruit, a lot of people (myself included) had high hopes that Kill and Nelson were going to be the ones to turn things around. They looked like they were certainly on the right track, but I don't think you'd get a lot of argument that the passing game was easily the most frustrating part of this season. Nelson had some nice moments, but the bad outweighed the good.

The lack of experience is concerning, but Leidner is far more experienced at this point in his career than the guy who just won the Rose Bowl was last year.

Speaking of Michigan State, Phil's career numbers in two starts against the best defense in the conference: 16-41 for 138 yards with 5 interceptions.

 

[Killjoy]

Quote Originally Posted by Rosemountian View Post
How many years do you think kill has left? I have got 2


Mitch can't get the ball out on time.
Mitch can't throw the ball accurately down the field.
Mitch fumbles the ball at a high rate.

I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that your number of posts in the last 24 hours is 30-40 X more than how many posts you had during the 5 weeks of the season in which the Gophers were winning 4 straight conference games for the first time in decades?

You got that right! Rosemountain didn't like the Kill hire because he wanted a "named" coach. Since he didn't get his way he looks for any opportunity to suggest that coach Kill needs to go. It is too bad that he can't let it go. Fortunately this past season has been a great disappointment to him. I wish him more of the same.

 

[Killjoy]

Rosemountain

A list of Gopher QB stats during their first season with at least 20 Pass attempts.
Year Name----------------Cmp----Att---Pct----Yds-----Y/A---AY/A---TD---INT---Rate
2013 Mitch Leidner---------43------78---55.1---619-----7.9----8.1-----3----1----131.9
2012 Phillip Nelson----------75-----152---49.3 ---873----5.7----4.4-----8----8----104.4
2011 Max Shortell----------26------54---48.1---309-----5.7----4.8-----2----2----101.0
2011 Marqueis Gray--------108-----213---50.7--1495----7.0----6.1-----8----8----114.5
2007 Adam Weber---------258-----449---57.5 --2895-----6.4---5.6----24----19---120.8
2005 Tony Mortensen-------9-------24---37.5 ---130-----5.4---4.4-----1----1-----88.4
2004 Bryan Cupito---------123-----261---47.1---2097----8.0---7.9----14----7----127.0
2003 Benji Kamrath---------16------34---47.1----250-----7.4---5.3----1-----2----106.8
2000 Travis Cole-----------131-----223--58.7---1780-----8.0---8.0----11----5----137.6
2000 Asad Abdul-Khaliq-----51------94---54.3----676----7.2----7.2----7-----3----132.9
1998 Andy Persby----------60------143--42.0----661----4.6----3.5----3-----5-----80.7
1997 Billy Cockerham-------13------28---46.4----242-----8.6---7.6----3-----2----140.1
1995 Jason Murdock--------18------45---40.0----263----5.8----3.7----2-----3-----90.4
1994 Cory Sauter -----------9------21---42.9-----80-----3.8----1.7----0-----1-----65.3
1993 Tim Schade----------135-----286---47.2---1648----5.8---4.3-----8----13-----95.7
1993 Scott Eckers---------119-----206---57.8---1564----7.6---5.9----14----14----130.4
1992 Rob St. Sauver--------28------47---59.6----303----6.4---5.4-----2-----2----119.3
1989 Marquel Fleetwood----23------56---41.1-----270----4.8---0.0----0-----6-----60.1
1988 Scott Schaffner------106-----191---55.5----1234---6.5---5.5----7-----7-----114.5
1985 Alan Holt--------------27------47---57.4----408----8.7---9.5----2-----0-----144.4
1984 Rickey Foggie---------57------121---47.1---1036---8.6---6.9----10----9-----131.4
1983 Greg Murphy---------115------242---47.5---1410---5.8---3.3----6-----16-----91.4
1983 Brett Sadek-----------60-----130---46.2----757----5.8---5.2-----7-----5-----105.1

(If anything needs to be fixed, just let me know. I got the information from http://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/schools/minnesota/)

Take this and stick it where the sun don't shine! Or better yet stick it in your mouth and choke on it! You don't even make any attempt to hide your agenda. Your lack of balance in your perspective is due to your hate.

 

[Pompous Elitist]

I've been trying to avoid posting on this topic for various reasons but I'm just too sick of the mindset "we are better off than last year at QB".

Even if you think Leidner is the better QB what are the chances he will play a whole season for us without leaving a game banged up or missing a game with an injury? Having an experienced QB (nelson) who led the team to our first 4 game conference win streak since before I was alive as a backup is eons better... With the system they are running our QBs will continue to get banged up and having depth and experience is going to be key to future success and is one of the (major FREAKIN) reasons why were were able to have a successful year.... Now that's lost.

Also i make the same assumption costan rican gopher made that people are comparing being better off in this upcoming season than we were a week ago. Your comparisons of 2013 and 2014 seasons are irrelevant because the 2014 season should have read:

So Leidner Lots of experience Jr Nelson lots of experience won us biggest games in forever RS Fresh streveler no experience but will need to be ready when 1 and 2 get hurt

I would (strongly) argue the main reason for the 4 game win streak was our defense, not QB play. Go back and watch the Neb game on Big Ten 2 Go. Our defense manhandled nebraska. They beat them up, tore off their faces and spit them out. It was inspiring to watch.

Phil played well but he played about as well as a 2nd year starter SHOULD be playing. He was a decent QB during that stretch but nothing heisman-worthy like some of you seem to think. The problem is the other 13-14 games he played in where he was far below decent.

I rewatched the Michigan game last night and came away somewhat encouraged. Leidner has real potential. He played pretty well in the Big House except for a few freshman mistakes. He was a machine in the SJSU game. He will get better with the mistakes.

All is not lost. The future can be bright if Kill can maintain a decent defense going forward and Leidner or Streveler steps up.

 

[hungan1]

... All is not lost. The future can be bright if Kill can maintain a decent defense going forward and Leidner or Streveler steps up.

Next man up!

 

[John Galt]

A list of Gopher QB stats during their first season with at least 20 Pass attempts.
Year Name----------------Cmp----Att---Pct----Yds-----Y/A---AY/A---TD---INT---Rate
2013 Mitch Leidner---------43------78---55.1---619-----7.9----8.1-----3----1----131.9
2012 Phillip Nelson----------75-----152---49.3 ---873----5.7----4.4-----8----8----104.4
2011 Max Shortell----------26------54---48.1---309-----5.7----4.8-----2----2----101.0
2011 Marqueis Gray--------108-----213---50.7--1495----7.0----6.1-----8----8----114.5
2007 Adam Weber---------258-----449---57.5 --2895-----6.4---5.6----24----19---120.8
2005 Tony Mortensen-------9-------24---37.5 ---130-----5.4---4.4-----1----1-----88.4
2004 Bryan Cupito---------123-----261---47.1---2097----8.0---7.9----14----7----127.0
2003 Benji Kamrath---------16------34---47.1----250-----7.4---5.3----1-----2----106.8
2000 Travis Cole-----------131-----223--58.7---1780-----8.0---8.0----11----5----137.6
2000 Asad Abdul-Khaliq-----51------94---54.3----676----7.2----7.2----7-----3----132.9
1998 Andy Persby----------60------143--42.0----661----4.6----3.5----3-----5-----80.7
1997 Billy Cockerham-------13------28---46.4----242-----8.6---7.6----3-----2----140.1
1995 Jason Murdock--------18------45---40.0----263----5.8----3.7----2-----3-----90.4
1994 Cory Sauter -----------9------21---42.9-----80-----3.8----1.7----0-----1-----65.3
1993 Tim Schade----------135-----286---47.2---1648----5.8---4.3-----8----13-----95.7
1993 Scott Eckers---------119-----206---57.8---1564----7.6---5.9----14----14----130.4
1992 Rob St. Sauver--------28------47---59.6----303----6.4---5.4-----2-----2----119.3
1989 Marquel Fleetwood----23------56---41.1-----270----4.8---0.0----0-----6-----60.1
1988 Scott Schaffner------106-----191---55.5----1234---6.5---5.5----7-----7-----114.5
1985 Alan Holt--------------27------47---57.4----408----8.7---9.5----2-----0-----144.4
1984 Rickey Foggie---------57------121---47.1---1036---8.6---6.9----10----9-----131.4
1983 Greg Murphy---------115------242---47.5---1410---5.8---3.3----6-----16-----91.4
1983 Brett Sadek-----------60-----130---46.2----757----5.8---5.2-----7-----5-----105.1

(If anything needs to be fixed, just let me know. I got the information from http://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/schools/minnesota/)

I appreciate you and others trying to bring stats into play, but here is why they mean little in this situation:

1. Comparing stats from Mitch's freshman year to Nelson's freshman year is misleading because Mitch got a redshirt year.
2. Not only did Mitch get a redshirt year, he enrolled early. (Nelson did too but I'm comparing him to the other QBs). So Mitch had been on campus for 2 full fall camps, 2 full spring camps, and all of the other off-season workouts before he got his first game action against UNLV the end of August. That's about 20 months on campus, vs. some of the other freshman listed who had been here for 2-3 months before seeing their first game action.
3. Michigan was the only game where we got to see Mitch's full body of work, and we ended up with 13 points against a marginal Michigan team. All of his other stats came in mop up duty (UNLV, SJSU) or spot duty. Not a fair comparison when Nelson played almost the entire game against some stout defenses (Michigan St., Iowa, Wisky). Again, that's not Mitch's fault, it's just not an accurate comparison. The only game out of 13 where Mitch clearly outplayed Phil was Syracuse.

 

[UpnorthGo4]

The only game out of 13 where Mitch clearly outplayed Phil was Syracuse.

If you don't want to rely on what the stats say than lets go with perceptions. Every time I saw Leidner thow passes he looked better than Nelson did when he passed. There is very little doubt that Leidner has a stronger arm and throws more accurate passes than Nelson. His major deficiencies are correctable for a RS Freshman: (1) hanging on to the football; (2) moving around the pocket to avoid the rush and to buy time; and (3) knowing when to pass and when to tuck and run.

Leidner is also a bigger and stronger runner than Nelson. Nelson's major deficiencies in comparison to Leidner are probably not fixable: (1) weaker arm; and (2) less accurate passes. Even if Kill didn't tell him in so many words, Nelson (and his dad) saw the handwriting on the wall: his time as the Gopher's starting QB was done. When many GopherHolers were wondering whether or not Leidner would remain at QB for next season, a few perceptive posters were saying that he would be the starter.

 

[Pompous Elitist]

I appreciate you and others trying to bring stats into play, but here is why they mean little in this situation:

1. Comparing stats from Mitch's freshman year to Nelson's freshman year is misleading because Mitch got a redshirt year.
2. Not only did Mitch get a redshirt year, he enrolled early. (Nelson did too but I'm comparing him to the other QBs). So Mitch had been on campus for 2 full fall camps, 2 full spring camps, and all of the other off-season workouts before he got his first game action against UNLV the end of August. That's about 20 months on campus, vs. some of the other freshman listed who had been here for 2-3 months before seeing their first game action.
3. Michigan was the only game where we got to see Mitch's full body of work, and we ended up with 13 points against a marginal Michigan team. All of his other stats came in mop up duty (UNLV, SJSU) or spot duty. Not a fair comparison when Nelson played almost the entire game against some stout defenses (Michigan St., Iowa, Wisky). Again, that's not Mitch's fault, it's just not an accurate comparison. The only game out of 13 where Mitch clearly outplayed Phil was Syracuse.

I'm pretty sure Mitch started vs SJSU.

If you watch a lot of football outside the gophs, big 10 it's clear our qb play was a major liability this year. With a more consistent qb it's possible we could have had a a truly extraordinary season.

Our o put a lot of pressure on our d and they still performed very well in most games.

It's a crying shame, a real lost opportunity. Kill realizes this as well. Nelson was history and he knew it.

 

[Breakin' The Plane]

I'm not sure how many games Nelson started (I think it's 17), but I can't get over that he only threw for more than 200 yards two times.

 

[Gopherocious]

I'm pretty sure Mitch started vs SJSU.

If you watch a lot of football outside the gophs, big 10 it's clear our qb play was a major liability this year. With a more consistent qb it's possible we could have had a a truly extraordinary season.

Our o put a lot of pressure on our d and they still performed very well in most games.

It's a crying shame, a real lost opportunity. Kill realizes this as well. Nelson was history and he knew it.

Didn't Mitch start at least a few games in the middle stretch of the year? That was when the talk about Nelson was how he liked seeing the first 2-3 series from the bench to study the defense...

 

[imthewalrus]

With the Kill offense as it has progressed in 2012 and 2013? It's run, run, run, baby. The Coaching staff didn't even appear to want to throw the ball other than that Purdue game when they saw what Purdue did on defense against the pass. It was "pump-fake". let the Purdue defenders try to jump the route and go for the pump and then head for the post! That was really the only time I saw Kill's staff game plan for the pass as the major weapon.

There has been no major emphasis on recruiting and developing receivers for the "here and now". It has been all about RUN the ball and STOP the run. And, I don't disagree with that philosophy. But, I don't care who the quarterback was...t was not "go time" for the passing game coming from the staff at all.

I'm not condemning it...OR...condoning it: it's just the way Coach Kill and his staff have game planned it and prepared for it and recruited for it. They have been starting out with "...football 101 philosophy...the first three seasons they have been here. Will season number four be any different? I'd say, with the four Big Ten wins in the 2013 season...that was ALL well and good. Will the formula work again in the 2014 season? Will Nelson be missed? Will the returning quarterbacks rise above...or will they fall on their face? That's why we will play the Conference games in 2014 boys and girls. And, we will have the final answer when we look at the final conference standings for the 2014 season. Conference wins vs conference losses will tell us the WHOLE story about our Coach...our Staff...about my Golden Gopher Football Team. Will my Gophers compete in the conference in 2014 as they did in 2013? Will they win a bowl invitation? Will they finlly be able to win the bowl game IF they are invited?

We do NOT have the answers today boys and girls. They are going to have to line up and play the games. The Conference games will tell us how we compare with the other teams in the conference. That is basically the MAIN concern and chief reason for being a member of this conference.

Good luck to all present and past Gophers! COMPETE with all the other conference members well in 2014. Nobody knows jack s.i* about how this will all play out today. Coach them well Coach Kill and Staff. The heat will be on to beat wisky in 2014. That HAS to happen soon.
And COMPETE well in the conference players and coaches.

 

[WAGopher]

Didn't Mitch start at least a few games in the middle stretch of the year? That was when the talk about Nelson was how he liked seeing the first 2-3 series from the bench to study the defense...

In retrospect that was a telling comment by Phil that he didn't feel he was up to the task of being a starter. After a week of game preparation, watching film, practicing against the scout team, and receiving instructions from the coaches, he still doesn't feel ready and wants to watch from the bench for a few series before he tries to lead his team to victory.

I wish Phil was staying because we need depth and chances are good that he'd improve, but if he couldn't accept that he might not be the starter next year, then he may have made the right choice for everyone.

 

[Gopherprof]

Please. Nelson played like crap (at passing the ball, anyway) against UNLV and New Mexico State as well. The talk about him facing tougher competition falls apart when you consider that he didn't play well against bad competition either.

 

[Winnipegopher]

It is a blow but really lets wait and see where Nelson lands.

Shortell starts as a freshman and goes to FCS, Barker "stars" as a junior and has so much baggage he goes nowhere, Harbison goes from potental difference maker to D-2 and MacDonald transfers to a D-3. That says a lot about the talent level of the transfers. If Nelson doesn't go to a BCS school, that will say a lot about his talent level, but unfortunately it also says a lot about the Gophers' talent level as well.

 

[Gopherprof]

It is a blow but really lets wait and see where Nelson lands.

Shortell starts as a freshman and goes to FCS, Barker "stars" as a junior and has so much baggage he goes nowhere, Harbison goes from potental difference maker to D-2 and MacDonald transfers to a D-3. That says a lot about the talent level of the transfers. If Nelson doesn't go to a BCS school, that will say a lot about his talent level, but unfortunately it also says a lot about the Gophers' talent level as well.

It's far more common for kids to transfer down at least a level. I'm not saying that any of those players were BCS-level players, and I'd personally be shocked if a BCS program took Philip, but that by itself isn't really a damning factor. I fully expect him to go to the FCS (or maybe the MAC), and probably do quite well where the game isn't as fast and the pressure isn't as great.

 

[stocker08]

I appreciate you and others trying to bring stats into play, but here is why they mean little in this situation:

1. Comparing stats from Mitch's freshman year to Nelson's freshman year is misleading because Mitch got a redshirt year.
2. Not only did Mitch get a redshirt year, he enrolled early. (Nelson did too but I'm comparing him to the other QBs). So Mitch had been on campus for 2 full fall camps, 2 full spring camps, and all of the other off-season workouts before he got his first game action against UNLV the end of August. That's about 20 months on campus, vs. some of the other freshman listed who had been here for 2-3 months before seeing their first game action.
3. Michigan was the only game where we got to see Mitch's full body of work, and we ended up with 13 points against a marginal Michigan team. All of his other stats came in mop up duty (UNLV, SJSU) or spot duty. Not a fair comparison when Nelson played almost the entire game against some stout defenses (Michigan St., Iowa, Wisky). Again, that's not Mitch's fault, it's just not an accurate comparison. The only game out of 13 where Mitch clearly outplayed Phil was Syracuse.

I'm confused about the point you are trying to make. First you are trying to tell us that Leidner is no good and is significantly worse than Nelson......but then you make excuses about why his stats don't look so bad. Should it make any difference whether Leidner had a RS season or whether he enrolled early? The main discussion here is whether we are worse off with Leidner or Nelson. Who gives us the best chance moving forward? I personally didn't see much to separate the two......and clearly the coaching staff didn't either. Considering that Nelson entered the year with some playing time under his belt, he probably should have been able to separate himself a little.

It's easy to speculate about their progression moving forward, but I saw nothing to suggest that we lost the best QB on the roster. Unfortunately, we did lose a guy who had valuable playing time and would be the potential starting QB next year. That sucks. Depth at the QB position is important, but it's not worth crying over spilt milk.

 

[Dr.Don]

Look, guys. Nelson is gone, Leidner and Streveler are here, can we cut the PC's about things we will never know anymore about than our current opinions and expertise.

This thread can be locked anytime.

 

[tikited]

I'm confused about the point you are trying to make. First you are trying to tell us that Leidner is no good and is significantly worse than Nelson......but then you make excuses about why his stats don't look so bad. Should it make any difference whether Leidner had a RS season or whether he enrolled early? The main discussion here is whether we are worse off with Leidner or Nelson. Who gives us the best chance moving forward? I personally didn't see much to separate the two......and clearly the coaching staff didn't either. Considering that Nelson entered the year with some playing time under his belt, he probably should have been able to separate himself a little.

It's easy to speculate about their progression moving forward, but I saw nothing to suggest that we lost the best QB on the roster. Unfortunately, we did lose a guy who had valuable playing time and would be the potential starting QB next year. That sucks. Depth at the QB position is important, but it's not worth crying over spilt milk.

There was no point other than making the ridiculous statement that Leidner is the worst qb in 30 years. Everything you wrote is spot on.

 

[Killjoy]

Look, guys. Nelson is gone, Leidner and Streveler are here, can we cut the B.S. about things we will never know anymore about than our current opinions and expertise.

This thread can be locked anytime.

FIFY

Dr.Don you have often been so kind to fix some of my posts so I thought I should do the same for you.

 

[Spoofin]

he is no worse then MarQueis and that guy is in the NFL.

Come on man. I get you like Liedner, but he is as good as Maquies Gray was? Gray was a far better runner and you can't even compare the two as far as being an athlete. Liedner can pass better (not a lot better), but is no where near the football player Gray was. Should we line Moose up at WR now? Hold back your enthusiasm just a bit please. I like Liedner, but the chances he follows Gray to the NFL are very very slim.

 

[die hard gopher]

Come on man. I get you like Liedner, but he is as good as Maquies Gray was? Gray was a far better runner and you can't even compare the two as far as being an athlete. Liedner can pass better (not a lot better), but is no where near the football player Gray was. Should we line Moose up at WR now? Hold back your enthusiasm just a bit please. I like Liedner, but the chances he follows Gray to the NFL are very very slim.

Leidner's combo of size and speed is very comparable to Gray's