Official "Mitch Leidner is not a division one QB" thread

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for 2 yrs we have spouted off about Leidner not having the skills to be a starting D1 QB. 2 yrs and nothing has changed and oddly....many of you still think that he can turn it around. I agree he gets the calls in from the sideline and leads the ground plays with effectiveness but that ain't enough to be in that role. nah, athletically he is in wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy over his head. plain and simple Mitcheroo doesn't have have the athletic skills to play qb for a BCS school.
 

My friend is on the team and told me that Kill verbally and publicly (to the team) told Demry to be ready on Saturday. That is either a mind game for Mitch or a telling sign that change is coming.
 

wait!what? said:
for 2 yrs we have spouted off about Leidner not having the skills to be a starting D1 QB. 2 yrs and nothing has changed and oddly....many of you still think that he can turn it around. I agree he gets the calls in from the sideline and leads the ground plays with effectiveness but that ain't enough to be in that role. nah, athletically he is in wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy over his head. plain and simple Mitcheroo doesn't have have the athletic skills to play qb for a BCS school.
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And yet here he is doing it..... Rocky wasn't a championship contending boxer either.... Wait, that's a movie, right?
 

'13Gopher said:
My friend is on the team and told me that Kill verbally and publicly (to the team) told Demry to be ready on Saturday. That is either a mind game for Mitch or a telling sign that change is coming.
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Anybody that doesn't think that Mitch could play himself off the field is just as delusional as those that think he can't play himself into being the starter for the rest of the season. It's up to him to perform. If this is accurate it does seem to solidify that Croft is the heir apparent, not Streveler.
 

Demry's tweet looks to be pretty solid indication that we will burn his redshirt and see him on Saturday!
 



'13Gopher said:
My friend is on the team and told me that Kill verbally and publicly (to the team) told Demry to be ready on Saturday. That is either a mind game for Mitch or a telling sign that change is coming.
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Coach Kill has been talking a lot about psychology, how fragile his players are, about playing tight...about how it is his job to fix that. Right? So how does warming up Croft during the game on the sideline with the starting center help this? How does praising Croft as the second coming prior to the game last week help this? If in fact this is true...why would you do that? Kill talks about talking to players like you do your kid with math problems...you find out why? All these conversations need to be one on one, not shared with the media. Ya, my kid is horrible at math, we talked about it...my other kid is really good at it...we'll see. Would you put that in the newspaper? Not getting Jerry? I like Jerry. He has me confused and disappointed with his comments and actions. Great job turning this thing around...off the field, academics, recruiting, back to back 8 and 5 etc but what's going on the last couple weeks? He's talking about the whole team having these confidence issues...if they treat them all like Mitch...I can see why. Not gettin' it...
 

wait!what? said:
for 2 yrs we have spouted off about Leidner not having the skills to be a starting D1 QB. 2 yrs and nothing has changed and oddly....many of you still think that he can turn it around. I agree he gets the calls in from the sideline and leads the ground plays with effectiveness but that ain't enough to be in that role. nah, athletically he is in wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy over his head. plain and simple Mitcheroo doesn't have have the athletic skills to play qb for a BCS school.
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Stop settling for average posting. This is not a D1 worthy post on a D1 message board.
 

I have nothing against Mitch, because he seems like a great guy, good leader... Although I don't think he's great, or even good... He may be average, but I think he lets his nerves get the best of him. The tattle-tale sign is how inconsistent he is. I, along with everyone on this board and everyone on earth including the coaches, do not know how Croft will react in a real game either. He may even have more jitters than Leidner. But we need to find that out.

If Leidner does good, put Croft in and let him get game time experience. If Leidner does bad, put Croft in and let him get game time experience. No matter what, get him some experience!
 



60's Guy said:
Great job turning this thing around...off the field, academics, recruiting, back to back 8 and 5 etc but what's going on the last couple weeks?
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Just think about this sentence, admittedly taken out of context, for a while.
 

icepirate13 said:
I don't think burning his red shirt would be in his or the program's best interest. Let him mature and develop. His time will come. IMHO
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when is the last time one of KIll's QB's have made it until their senior year. I am not worried about a red shirt being used, Lets hope we keep bringing in better talent than the prior year and always improving that way
 

60's Guy said:
Coach Kill has been talking a lot about psychology, how fragile his players are, about playing tight...about how it is his job to fix that. Right? So how does warming up Croft during the game on the sideline with the starting center help this? How does praising Croft as the second coming prior to the game last week help this? If in fact this is true...why would you do that? Kill talks about talking to players like you do your kid with math problems...you find out why? All these conversations need to be one on one, not shared with the media. Ya, my kid is horrible at math, we talked about it...my other kid is really good at it...we'll see. Would you put that in the newspaper? Not getting Jerry? I like Jerry. He has me confused and disappointed with his comments and actions. Great job turning this thing around...off the field, academics, recruiting, back to back 8 and 5 etc but what's going on the last couple weeks? He's talking about the whole team having these confidence issues...if they treat them all like Mitch...I can see why. Not gettin' it...
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This is an honest and well-thought-out analysis. Why the Company Men won't get on board with this is interesting. No different than the Brewster situation. People are afraid to see the truth when it's right in front of them. Kill is a great guy and very accomplished and I'd love for him to be here for the rest of his career. But someone needs to get his ear and have a talk with him about a few of his tactics. They're hypocritical and inconsistent, at least as they appear in public. A person's greatest strength can also be their downfall. In this case it's stubbornness and an unfettered belief that he knows exactly what to do in all situations. Unfortunately, he's making a few glaring mistakes.
 




Maroon92 said:
when is the last time one of KIll's QB's have made it until their senior year. I am not worried about a red shirt being used, Lets hope we keep bringing in better talent than the prior year and always improving that way
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Not worried about that either. If we don't have another good option at qb by 2019, we have bigger problems. That doesn't mean that we should play Demry, but if we don't play him, the reason shouldn't be to make sure he is still eligible 5 years down the road.
 

icepirate13 said:
I don't think burning his red shirt would be in his or the program's best interest. Let him mature and develop. His time will come. IMHO
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I understand that position, but have faith the coaches have the program's best interest at heart. No way JK feels his job is on the line and is doing it under external pressure.

Burn or don't burn "In Kill we Trust"
 

60's Guy said:
Coach Kill has been talking a lot about psychology, how fragile his players are, about playing tight...about how it is his job to fix that. Right? So how does warming up Croft during the game on the sideline with the starting center help this? How does praising Croft as the second coming prior to the game last week help this? If in fact this is true...why would you do that? Kill talks about talking to players like you do your kid with math problems...you find out why? All these conversations need to be one on one, not shared with the media. Ya, my kid is horrible at math, we talked about it...my other kid is really good at it...we'll see. Would you put that in the newspaper? Not getting Jerry? I like Jerry. He has me confused and disappointed with his comments and actions. Great job turning this thing around...off the field, academics, recruiting, back to back 8 and 5 etc but what's going on the last couple weeks? He's talking about the whole team having these confidence issues...if they treat them all like Mitch...I can see why. Not gettin' it...
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He's not acting this way publicly without a reason. He either feels it will help in his development to put pressure on him now, or he is at the point where this is Mitch's last chance and coddling him now can't help him. No player on the team got more psychological build up and support than Mitch Leidner, entire staff went out of their way to talk about Mitch as THE guy and THE leader and THE second coming of Peyton Manning. Mitch has an okay game against TCU, support continued. Mitch lays an egg in the first half of the CSU game but comes back strong in the second half, support continued. Mitch throws 2 bad INT's in the first half against a weak opponent at home, still his job to lose, but now you have to start covering your bets. Maybe you start pressuring to see if he responds positively to that since his response to support is not what you hoped for.
 


dpodoll68 said:
Who and what are you referencing?
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I have to laugh at the posters (DoubleAlum), that bring in mystery, intrigue, and conspiracy without any proof.

Bottom line: it's all about putting butts in the seats and getting a return for the investment. Winning will do that. If Jerry feels that Croft is the best option, I have no doubt that the "Company Men" would heartily endorse the change.

My biggest concern with putting Croft in this early is the fact that true freshmen usually put the ball down at a much higher rate than a seasoned QB. I don't think some of our fellow Gopherholers could handle it.
 

Leidner has accounted for five turnovers in three games (2 INT, 3 fumbles, and has another fumble that was recovered by the offense) - he's just about leading the country in fumbles through three games. Croft could easily be worse but it's not like things are stellar right now, particularly for a team that wins by getting turnovers and not turning the ball over themselves.
 

Pretty sure everything has gone down the rabbit hole but I'll toss out my Mitch opinion.

I like Mitch, on a well oiled offense Mitch would probably be fine and we could redshirt everyone and not think twice about it aside from a play here or there. The thing is Mitch seems to be no better than the offense at any one time, if the offense is bad, Mitch loses confidence and he's worse. To some extent that is all QBs, they can only do so much, at the same time he's not helping himself out of trouble anytime soon either. At times during the last game he wad dropping back.... dropping back... and then "stood" there kind of hunched over.... and his choices were at times pretty poor IMO (floaters into double coverage, outright misses).

A better offensive line will likely see better play from Mitch, but Mitch doesn't make plays to help anyone else out, RBs, OL.... and frankly when he gets time and has opportunities his hit rate when the offense is humming along is not consistent enough to believe he'd do all that well long term.

He's put up with a lot, but I don't see him as a sum positive or a guy who can make the plays when the team needs him to. If he a positive it's not much of a positive.

I think the coaching staff is wary of calling any player out, I'm not convinced they think Mitch is the answer or is even playing well, but they don't want to say it publicly (fair enough IMO). It is just instinct but what I saw at the game last week it seemed like some coaches talking to Mitch were frustrated that what looked like panicking and hiding at times, and that wasn't going to get them out of that game.

With the boos (I didn't like that but the crowd is going to do their thing) I wanted to see Mitch get mad and take the ball and sling it around and take some action, make plays, rather I thought he seemed relieved to just let the RB run up the middle....

So the question is if you stick with Mitch and ride out the season. I think that greatly risks a lost season (coaches aren't going to say that of course), maybe a hit to recruiting, all to protect the red shirt of some other guys who it isn't clear if that pays off or not.

If the OL can get healthy Mitch will be better, I just don't think he's a net positive even then, in that case I wonder if giving some guys (Croft) some time in the pocket might be beneficial. Particularly when we don't even know if Croft is the guy either, saving him only to find out he can't do it isn't going to do us much good, possibly at the cost of the season.
 

Gopher07 said:
Leidner has accounted for five turnovers in three games (2 INT, 3 fumbles, and has another fumble that was recovered by the offense) - he's just about leading the country in fumbles through three games. Croft could easily be worse but it's not like things are stellar right now, particularly for a team that wins by getting turnovers and not turning the ball over themselves.
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You make a good point. We have yet to see "good Mitch" over the last two games (we saw some glimmers with TCU). Either hoping we see good-Mitch or Croft on Saturday.
 

A_Slab_of_Bacon said:
Pretty sure everything has gone down the rabbit hole but I'll toss out my Mitch opinion.

I like Mitch, on a well oiled offense Mitch would probably be fine and we could redshirt everyone and not think twice about it aside from a play here or there. The thing is Mitch seems to be no better than the offense at any one time, if the offense is bad, Mitch loses confidence and he's worse. To some extent that is all QBs, they can only do so much, at the same time he's not helping himself out of trouble anytime soon either. At times during the last game he wad dropping back.... dropping back... and then "stood" there kind of hunched over.... and his choices were at times pretty poor IMO (floaters into double coverage, outright misses).

A better offensive line will likely see better play from Mitch, but Mitch doesn't make plays to help anyone else out, RBs, OL.... and frankly when he gets time and has opportunities his hit rate when the offense is humming along is not consistent enough to believe he'd do all that well long term.

He's put up with a lot, but I don't see him as a sum positive or a guy who can make the plays when the team needs him to. If he a positive it's not much of a positive.

I think the coaching staff is wary of calling any player out, I'm not convinced they think Mitch is the answer or is even playing well, but they don't want to say it publicly (fair enough IMO). It is just instinct but what I saw at the game last week it seemed like some coaches talking to Mitch were frustrated that what looked like panicking and hiding at times, and that wasn't going to get them out of that game.

With the boos (I didn't like that but the crowd is going to do their thing) I wanted to see Mitch get mad and take the ball and sling it around and take some action, make plays, rather I thought he seemed relieved to just let the RB run up the middle....

So the question is if you stick with Mitch and ride out the season. I think that greatly risks a lost season (coaches aren't going to say that of course), maybe a hit to recruiting, all to protect the red shirt of some other guys who it isn't clear if that pays off or not.

If the OL can get healthy Mitch will be better, I just don't think he's a net positive even then, in that case I wonder if giving some guys (Croft) some time in the pocket might be beneficial. Particularly when we don't even know if Croft is the guy either, saving him only to find out he can't do it isn't going to do us much good, possibly at the cost of the season.
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He just did this two games ago against CSU. Without that last drive, we don't win. He's not consistent but he has shown he "can make the plays when the team needs him to". I'm not saying he is going to every time or that he is John Elway leading us back to victory all the time.

That is what is frustrating to me. He has shown he can be very good, even great at times. He's just so inconsistent.
 

GophersInIowa said:
He just did this two games ago against CSU. Without that last drive, we don't win. He's not consistent but he has shown he "can make the plays when the team needs him to". I'm not saying he is going to every time or that he is John Elway leading us back to victory all the time.

That is what is frustrating to me. He has shown he can be very good, even great at times. He's just so inconsistent.
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Agreed. Way frustrating. I think though when he gets it going it is more of a factor of probability, he's gonna make some passes, and eventually you get the overthrow or underthrow of the open man and etc. I've kinda given up on there being more upside to our current QB than we have seen.
 

A_Slab_of_Bacon said:
Agreed. Way frustrating. I think though when he gets it going it is more of a factor of probability, he's gonna make some passes, and eventually you get the overthrow or underthrow of the open man and etc. I've kinda given up on there being more upside to our current QB than we have seen.
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managing your leidner expectations should assist you in better mental health.
 

wait!what? said:
managing your leidner expectations should assist you in better mental health.
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True, but man when you see him miss a guy.... still hurts.

There is a pass or two I can still see miss from him from a while ago. I don't even want to mention them, but man I can see them clearly. I don't doubt he can too.
 

100% True

LakerFan said:
He's not acting this way publicly without a reason. He either feels it will help in his development to put pressure on him now, or he is at the point where this is Mitch's last chance and coddling him now can't help him. No player on the team got more psychological build up and support than Mitch Leidner, entire staff went out of their way to talk about Mitch as THE guy and THE leader and THE second coming of Peyton Manning. Mitch has an okay game against TCU, support continued. Mitch lays an egg in the first half of the CSU game but comes back strong in the second half, support continued. Mitch throws 2 bad INT's in the first half against a weak opponent at home, still his job to lose, but now you have to start covering your bets. Maybe you start pressuring to see if he responds positively to that since his response to support is not what you hoped for.
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90% True and the question is: Is that where the problem started? That's a lot of pressure without major performance or accomplishment at the time the buildup began. To play quarterback you have to be confident, smiling, enthusiastic, fiery, an air of swagger about you. (Haven't seen that since his first games) Or the much more difficult route, you let your amazing play and performance carry you with a quiet confidence. The problem with that is when your play falters or your cool quiet confidence turns to jittery...you have no other tools in your leadership tool box. I don't think it would be typical to expect a shaken, jittery, verbally attacked person not playing up to capabilities, who was previously presented as "the man" to now magically perform better through "pressure" and mind games. Jerry himself said...we have a fragile team...not the time to "yell", we gotta teach. Well, to me, part of teaching is putting your arm around somebody, convincing them through words supported by actions they are STILL your guy through tough times. Quietly, you also are honest in explaining, WE gotta play better or WE will have no choice but to do something different. All with a smile. Not through games, public comments etc but one on one. And say publicly I'm supporting Mitch. (actions) Yes, he's played all the snaps, but the tone to begin was Mitch is the guy, the Manning camp quotes etc etc...that tone has gone silent. Trust. Players gotta trust in coaches...words supported by actions. That's what I see different from 10,000 feet. You are correct the approach has changed...I'm just saying I would do it differently. (it's a message board...I'm not expecting Jerry to read or care what I think...just a different perspective for another message board person to consider) I could absolutely be full of ___
 

The staff called him the second coming of Peyton Manning? Link to this quote, please.
 


'13Gopher said:
My friend is on the team and told me that Kill verbally and publicly (to the team) told Demry to be ready on Saturday. That is either a mind game for Mitch or a telling sign that change is coming.
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Old News. I reported on GH last Sunday that Demry would play this Saturday.
 

Ski U Mah Gopher said:
Is Minnesota a Division I school?

Is Leidner the QB?

If the answer to both of those questions is yes, then Leidner is a Division I QB.

The real question should be "Is Leidner an effective Division I QB?
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After this many posts on the subject you would think folks would figure it out. You haven't. You are not alone. The question isn't and shouldn't be "Is Mitch a D1 QB?" OR "Is Mitch an effective D1 QB?" Neither question matters. The ONLY question that matters is "Is Mitch the best QB on our roster?" As painful as it is, that is the only question that matters.
 

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