I know how to end the Adam Weber debate....

[Oneoldgopher]

Most Gopher QB's

Were 2 year starters. So, his stat's are not comparable unless you compare his last 2 with the last 2 of every other QB. I don't have the time or patience to do this. It would be an interesting comparison.

 

[imthewalrus]

What planet are you on old man???????

So WHAT if some qb's were 2 year starters??????? Weber was handed the ball by the coach for FOUR years. Cupito was a starter for 3 years. Asad played for the better part of 3 years. Paul Giel started three years. The kid from Hutch, Cory Sauter started for at least three seasons and played some as a frosh. Still not convinced?????? Want another 4 year starter at qb?????????? Try Ricky Foggie. Some of them didn't play on great teams...and virtually ALL of them had better offensive lines, running backs and wide receivers. ANOTHER qb who had cracked the starting line up during his freshman year was TONY DUNGY. What kind of crap are you trying to feed us with this two year stuff old man???????

You people are so incredibly funny! You try to set your own sets of criteria. You bitch because he started for four years. Some of you bitch because he didn't give up and threw some td passes in the fourth quarter of games the Gophers were losing.

But you don't bitch about Decker's catches in the fourth quarter to pad his stats...or the fact that he played a lot for four years.



bitch about badger joel macturi's incompetentence in hiring brewster and extending brewster and then finally firing brewster because brewster was such an incompetent coach.

So, right off the bat you are telling us lies about the quarterbacks. A LOT of them were 3 year starters. Some started over three years and at least one other qb started all four years (Foggie) What's with that old guy? I'm an old guy too so I can call you old guy...ESPECIALLY when you are trying to introduce misinformation into your attempted bashing of our record holding quarterback from the last four years. Man, you and your type of bashers really are stooping to really LOW methods here oldguy. Grow up old guy. Check out the records for Dungy, Foggie, Asad, Sauter and Cupito. Man, it must really stink to have to resort to this "most qb's started for two years b.s. that you are manufacturing. All of those other qb's had better offensive lines and had running games to take the heat off them too. Some of the wr's were really OUTSTANDING too... Give it up old man. Just a friendly piece of advice from one old guy to another old guy...

; 0 )

 

[GreasyGopher]

This is getting ridiculous. Can we just say that Weber played for bad teams that were constantly facing significant deficits? This situation made it necessary to pass the ball with more frequency. The frequency of attempts coupled with the soft defenses played by the opponents created a perfect environment to acheive these records. Weber went out each week and played hard for as long as the coach kept calling his name, which was usually all game every game. So while his efforts are commendable, I don't see how these records alone make him a great QB.

One last question: In your discussions of all-time great college QBs how often does Tommy Chang from Hawaii get brought into the conversation?

 

[Killjoy]

What is ridiculous?

This is getting ridiculous. Can we just say that Weber played for bad teams that were constantly facing significant deficits? This situation made it necessary to pass the ball with more frequency. The frequency of attempts coupled with the soft defenses played by the opponents created a perfect environment to acheive these records. Weber went out each week and played hard for as long as the coach kept calling his name, which was usually all game every game. So while his efforts are commendable, I don't see how these records alone make him a great QB.

One last question: In your discussions of all-time great college QBs how often does Tommy Chang from Hawaii get brought into the conversation?

cjcarter8 - You need to insert wren for this in "This is getting ridiculous." He has been thrown off almost as many football blogs as Pantherhawk for his behavior. He was thrown off this blog but somehow got back on. He talks out of both sides of his mouth by saying how we should respect Weber but then bashes anybody who has a different, but articulate perspective than his. There have been numerous comments here that have discussed his behavior in the past but he seems to be totally oblivious to what people to say to him when it doesn’t match his viewpoint.

 

[short ornery norwegian]

Let's look at some numbers.

Here are some career stats for the top 8 QB's in gopher history (ranked by total passing yards).

Total Yards:
1. Weber 10,917
2. Cupito 7,446
3. Sauter 6,834
4. Asad A-K 6,660
5. M. Fleetwood 5,279
6. Foggie 5,162
7. Hohensee 4,792
8. Schade 3,986

Now - ranked by Yards Per Completion:
1. Foggie 16.6
2. Asad 13.8
3. Cupito 13.0
4. Sauter 12.7
5. Schade 12.4
6. Hohensee 12.2
7. Weber 12.0
8. Fleetwood 11.35

And - ranked by Yards Per Attempt:
1. Foggie 8.2
2. Cupito 8.11
3. Asad 7.86
4. Sauter 7.23
5. Weber 6.84
6. Hohensee 6.6
7. Schade 6.4
8. Fleetwood 6.0

Conclusions - Weber played more games, and has more attempts, completions, yards and TD's.
But, Foggie appears to have been the most efficient QB, ranked #1 in Yards per Comp. and Yards per Att. Asad comes off better than I thought (he also had a TD to INT ratio of 55 to 26). I also thought Hohensee would have ranked higher - my memory playing tricks with me again.

And before Wren pops a blood vessel - this is not an attack on Weber's character. I'm simply trying to place things in perspective, and present some numbers on Gopher QB's to see how they rank in relation to each other. Of course, a more complete analysis would also try to account for the relative strength or weakness of the teams each QB played for, the style of the coach, and so on - but I don't have the time or resources to compile that.

 

[imthewalrus]

There is one consistant factor that is very interesting...

If you check out the qb's who averaged the longest gain per completion, those qb's also had pretty fair offensive lines and great running backs.

Foggie had Darrell Thompson and one or two other decent running backs. He had 32 interceptions and 34 td throws. He completed about 50% (roughly) of his passes.

Asad had MBIII, Maroney and Tepeh along with a great line. At different times he had some pretty good wide outs too as well as a great t.e. 26 inteceptions and 55 td passes.

Cupito still had a pretty decent running game part of the time with Maroney, Pinnix and the kid out of Columbus, OH who only stuck around a couple of years, but has also played in the nfl. He had Spath at te for both blocking and receiving. 25 interceptions and 55 td passes.

Sauter had Chris Darkins to run the ball, Ryan Thelwell, Atwell, and an offensive scheme that tossed the ball around a lot.

Weber didn't have much other than Decker, who had two seasons cut short by injury. He had 51 interceptions and 72 td passes.

All in all, I'd say you guys owe Weber a big apology. He stands pretty tall in those catagories. He had a pretty fair completion percentage compared to a few of the others. He didn't have the great line, running game or as many receives to throw the ball to as some of the others.

I'd say that Cupido and Asad look to be the most efficient to me. They were practically cookie cutters when you compare their passing stats. I guess a LOT can be said for having good offensive lines and good running games. I guess Mason knew that a good manager was exactly what was needed at qb. Throw in a bevy of good receivers and let those managers go to work.

Thank you shortorneryone for your legwork in looking up some of the numbers.

Note to Coach Kill: build a great offensive line and get some good running backs and your passing game should be just fine. (As if Coach Kill doesn't know that. ; 0 ) ...) I KNOW that he does KNOW that and I would bet that the running game is HIGH on his list of things to accomplish with the offense here at Minnesota! That would be a VERY good thing!

 

[cncmin]

If you check out the qb's ...
...[nonsense]...
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with the offense here at Minnesota! That would be a VERY good thing!

blah blah blah blah blah blah blah

 

[Killjoy]

cncmin

blah blah blah blah blah blah blah

Great job of summarizing wren's babble. It seems that every time wren reads a comment he never comprehends what other people are saying to him because he is on automatic.

 

[Oneoldgopher]

Weber 9th in the NCAA stats

FOR HAVING THE 9TH MOST INTERCEPTIONS ALL -TIME, ALL DI COLLEGES.... The records go back to 1890.

Says something for his accuracy. Nobody is going to draft this kind of talent and not be laughed at during the draft announcement.

Sorry, Mr. Weber -- I'm just stating what I predict will happen. It is not my dream for anybody's son to be laughed at for wanting a dream to come true.

I would love to see Adam Weber drafted. I just don't see this happening any time soon.

 

[KD6-3.7]

FOR HAVING THE 9TH MOST INTERCEPTIONS ALL -TIME, ALL DI COLLEGES.... The records go back to 1890.

Says something for his accuracy. Nobody is going to draft this kind of talent and not be laughed at during the draft announcement.

Sorry, Mr. Weber -- I'm just stating what I predict will happen. It is not my dream for anybody's son to be laughed at for wanting a dream to come true.

I would love to see Adam Weber drafted. I just don't see this happening any time soon.

he was also sacked over 100 times in his career. in 2009 he was sacked 40 times.

i like the guy and i think that it is undeniable that he was hurt by the circumstances under which he played. i think a good case can be made for weber's performance being hurt by the play of the people around him (after all, i had never heard the word 'regress' bandied around as much as it was during weber's last two years), but that is a moot point.

weber deserves to get picked up by a team with a veteran future hall of fame QB and a strong line and running game where he can hold the clipboard and take notes for a few years. maybe he has the ability to be a more accurate passer without the defensive ends being all up in his ear hole.

 

[Sportsfan24]

FOR HAVING THE 9TH MOST INTERCEPTIONS ALL -TIME, ALL DI COLLEGES.... The records go back to 1890.

Says something for his accuracy. Nobody is going to draft this kind of talent and not be laughed at during the draft announcement.

Sorry, Mr. Weber -- I'm just stating what I predict will happen. It is not my dream for anybody's son to be laughed at for wanting a dream to come true.

I would love to see Adam Weber drafted. I just don't see this happening any time soon.

It all comes down to W's and L's. Both Iowa and Wisconsin had Qb's who I believe were inferrior to Adam, yet Iowa's Ricky Stansi is being projected to go in the 3rd or 4th round.

 

[dpodoll68]

It all comes down to W's and L's.

Exactly. That's why Asad Abdul-Khaliq, whose record as a full-time starter his Jr./Sr. years was 18-8, was drafted so highly.

 

[Oneoldgopher]

he was also sacked over 100 times in his career. in 2009 he was sacked 40 times.

i like the guy and i think that it is undeniable that he was hurt by the circumstances under which he played. i think a good case can be made for weber's performance being hurt by the play of the people around him (after all, i had never heard the word 'regress' bandied around as much as it was during weber's last two years), but that is a moot point.

weber deserves to get picked up by a team with a veteran future hall of fame QB and a strong line and running game where he can hold the clipboard and take notes for a few years. maybe he has the ability to be a more accurate passer without the defensive ends being all up in his ear hole.

I like your optimism regarding Weber. Avoiding facts are the first problem with all emotional issues. He had the 9th most interceptions of any NCAA qb going back to 1890. That is not draft worthy material. Minnesota has had higher rated qb's that were never drafted. Having this negative stat only lowers his ratings.

 

[RodentRampage]

I like your optimism regarding Weber. Avoiding facts are the first problem with all emotional issues. He had the 9th most interceptions of any NCAA qb going back to 1890. That is not draft worthy material. Minnesota has had higher rated qb's that were never drafted. Having this negative stat only lowers his ratings.

And you are avoiding facts and on this issue which seems very emotional for you. Weber has the third highest TD to INT ratio in Gophers history. (1.45, improved from his 1.24 ratio at the beginning of the season). He'd also tied for the 3rd highest completion percentage in Minnesota history.

 

[Silvio]

I like your optimism regarding Weber. Avoiding facts are the first problem with all emotional issues. He had the 9th most interceptions of any NCAA qb going back to 1890. That is not draft worthy material. Minnesota has had higher rated qb's that were never drafted. Having this negative stat only lowers his ratings.

Brett Favre threw a lot of interceptions. He should of never had an NFL Career. Int's are also a product of playing time like attempts, completions, yards and touchdowns. NFL scout's look at other attributes to determine a prospect's draft stock. The number 8 pick in this years draft had a collegiate career completion percentage of 55%, had a lot of losses, and arguably regressed his senior year but was still viewed by one team as the second best quarterback in the draft.

 

[Section2]

Free agent or not
The cons win, while he may still win a position on a roster or practice squad, a 4 year starter at the leagues most important position should NOT make it to free agency if a team thinks he can play. The pro Adam Weber folks are all homers (me) and we should bow to the greatness and knowledge of the cons.

/debate

 

[GreasyGopher]

And you are avoiding facts and on this issue which seems very emotional for you. Weber has the third highest TD to INT ratio in Gophers history. (1.45, improved from his 1.24 ratio at the beginning of the season). He'd also tied for the 3rd highest completion percentage in Minnesota history.

Unfortunately, the gophers don't exactly have a strong tradition of QB play. So being a good gopher QB doesn't automatically make a good college QB.

 

[theTurning]

In some ways I respect the Weber homers. It takes a very specific type of delusion to convince yourself that a player so blatantly average has even the most remote possibility to be drafted in the early rounds, let alone at all.

At the very least, these people make the message board more interesting.

 

[RodentRampage]

In some ways I respect the Weber homers. It takes a very specific type of delusion to convince yourself that a player so blatantly average has even the most remote possibility to be drafted in the early rounds, let alone at all.

At the very least, these people make the message board more interesting.

No one "convinced themselves" that Weber would be drafted. There were a lot of people saying that Weber would be either be drafted in the 7th round or be an UDFA, that was the only reason anyone was expecting Weber to be drafted. Who was saying that Weber would be drafted in the early rounds? Those suffering from Weber Derangement Syndrome sure to like to make things up.

 

[Section2]

No one "convinced themselves" that Weber would be drafted. There were a lot of people saying that Weber would be either be drafted in the 7th round or be an UDFA, that was the only reason anyone was expecting Weber to be drafted. Who was saying that Weber would be drafted in the early rounds? Those suffering from Weber Derangement Syndrome sure to like to make things up.

There were some posters with inside knowledge saying that scouts were falling in love with Adam, and that he may go in the 3rd or 4th.

 

[highwayman]

Joe Namath threw more interceptions (220) than TD passes (173) and is in the Pro Football Hall of Fame. Why? He won a title. His career W/L record was 62-63-4 and is in the Pro Football Hall of Fame. Why? He won a title.

Favre won one Super Bowl. Dan Marino and Fran Tarkenton won none. Marino and Tark sucked, right?

It's all relative to personality and hype.

Adam Weber is twice the man that Joe Namath and Brett Favre are combined. I would go to battle with Adam Weber. I would run and hide with those two clowns at my side. End of story.

 

[60's Guy]

win

A quarterback's job is to win. Weber was horrible in this area. A quarterback's job is to convert third downs. Weber was horrible in this area.

Sorry, I like the Gophers! I'm not a Weber fan. Life is 10% what happens to you. 90% how you deal with it. You can say Weber was classy. He dealt with adversity with honor. I'll argue he found a way to lose games.

I know...Weber is 100 times...no! a million, trillion times the man I'll ever be. I know. Still not a Weber fan.

 

[imthewalrus]

No 60's guy: badger joel macturi found a way to lose...

football games... Men's Hoops games...Men's Hockey games...he even found a way to drive fans away from the brand new football palace. badger joel macturi invented brewball and is screwing over every revenue sport at the U of M. badger joel macturi is responsible for EVERY problem that the football program had in the past four seasons. It wasn't anyone else. It was ALL badger joel macturi ALL the time. EVERY loss the football program had in the past four years goes right on badger joel macturi's head. I hate to think what badger joel macturi personally did to the football experience each and every Gopher Football Player had during the past four seasons...and beyond by doing everything he has done with the football coaches ever since he arrived. Don't even try to pin it on a kid. The finger of guilt is pointing at badger joel macturi and NO ONE ELSE is accountable.

Get off your high horse 60's dude or dudette, which ever your case may be. The KIDS on the team do NOT call the shots, plan the games, coach the games, name the starters, recruit the players, take charge OR take responsibilities for losses. ONLY badger joel macturi had the power to hire, fire, extend, buy out coaches and totally change the face of the Gopher Football Program and the fate of the Gopher Football Program with his coaching screw-ups. Oh sure, maybe he took the heat for prexy b on some of the major screw-ups with the football program, but he got paid to take that heat.

Starting in 2011, Kill will have to take responsibility for EVERY loss that the Gophers have in Football. But, really, it will be badger joel macturi who will be ultimately responsible for EVERY loss the Gopher Football Team has. It won't be "Q" who is EVER responsible for a loss if Kill hands him the ball. If Kill doesn't hand him the ball and hands it to some other qb and the team loses, that loss will be on badger joel macturi's head too. No matter how many losses a qb has while playing for coach Kill, those losses will ALL go on badger joel macturi as long as bjm is the ad. Once we get a new ad...the heat is on him if a male ad is hired to replace bjm or her if a woman ad is hired. (Got to be equal opportunity because make NO mistake: the power to hire and fire a coach at any time IS the responsibility of the ad.)

There was not a single player who was responsible for ANY loss that the football program suffered in the last four years...in the last twenty years... in the last fifty years. Every single stinking loss goes right on the head of any of the athletic directors who had the ability to fire any of the coaches at ANY point in time. The ad hires 'em and the ad fires 'em. Put the bulls eye on badger joel macturi's head. Throw him under the bus NOW. Then back the bus up and do it all over again!!!

You are just a qb hater aren't you 60's dude or dudette?

It figures... ; 0 )

 

[Killjoy]

Warning - Extreme Babble Alert

Wren is off his meds and is running amok with his never ending babble. If you read the above post, you know it is the same old demands from somebody that has been banned from multiple sites for his babble. If you haven't you should be congratulated.

 

[highwayman]

A quarterback's job is to win. Weber was horrible in this area. A quarterback's job is to convert third downs. Weber was horrible in this area.

Sorry, I like the Gophers! I'm not a Weber fan. Life is 10% what happens to you. 90% how you deal with it. You can say Weber was classy. He dealt with adversity with honor. I'll argue he found a way to lose games.

I know...Weber is 100 times...no! a million, trillion times the man I'll ever be. I know. Still not a Weber fan.

You are clueless. Look back on the last four seasons an show me SPECIFICALLY game that Weber lost on his own. One? Two. Be specific. How many games did he win on his own? Be SPECIFIC. You Weber haters have no concept of how football is played, or what the QB role is. He was left out to dry 90% of the time.

Gray lost the Iowa State game, didn't he? I love Gray, but there's a good example of your logic.

Without Weber, this program would have been nearly winless.

 

[Sparlimb]

Well as many here predicted, the aforementioned AWeb went undrafted as expected. Can't say I'm too surprised. He was a 4 year starter, so it is likely he'll be invited to someone's camp and could possibly hope for a practice squad spot if there is a season this year. I'd say there's only a 20% chance of that though. I don't think he'll ever seen a active roster once in the NFL...

 

[Dr.Don]

Well as many here predicted, the aforementioned AWeb went undrafted as expected. Can't say I'm too surprised. He was a 4 year starter, so it is likely he'll be invited to someone's camp and could possibly hope for a practice squad spot if there is a season this year. I'd say there's only a 20% chance of that though. I don't think he'll ever seen a active roster once in the NFL...

At least he his working his ass off trying, which is much more than most of these GopherHole babblers with their unsubstantiated opinions are willing to do.

Talk is cheap, but it takes money to buy whiskey.

 

[Killjoy]

Dr. Don

Talk is cheap, but it takes money to buy whiskey.

Are you sure you got that right? I thought it was "Talk is cheap, but it takes money to buy whiskey players.

 

[imthewalrus]

Wren is off his meds and is running amok with his never ending babble.

Here you are AGAIN sticking your strange little nose right on the tail-end of one of my posts. Well, killjoy, here's MUD in your eyes and all over your face, so to speak, as you reap your just rewards for tail-gating. You should always leave a few post-lengths of space between you and another poster...you are going to get a violation for stalking too closely. You are quite the little hanger on jerk...off you go killjoy. It's always a real BLAST having you stalk my posts. But I ALWAYS have a real gas no matter what you are tailing me with... ; 0 )


I KNOW I am being effective because of your total devotion to my every word. I KNOW you will always come sniffing around...won't you little killjoy? Like I said: here's mud in your eyes bubba. The next gasser of a post that I pass along will knock your socks off little stalker dude or dudette, which ever your case might be.

; 0 )

 

[Oneoldgopher]

And you are avoiding facts and on this issue which seems very emotional for you. Weber has the third highest TD to INT ratio in Gophers history. (1.45, improved from his 1.24 ratio at the beginning of the season). He'd also tied for the 3rd highest completion percentage in Minnesota history.

Rodent, ask yourself something, how emotional are you about Adam being drafted. How many of those interceptions caused the game to change? He so many interceptions that it put the defense on the field more than their fair share. I am not the emotional thinker here. I am the realist.