I know how to end the Adam Weber debate....

Everything you say would be true but for the fact that even during practices (and I watched plenty of them) when Weber was wearing a yellow jersey he had difficulty hitting receivers on the numbers and in full stride.

Weber's below average throwing accuracy had zero to do with who his offensive coordinator and wide receivers were.

However, I will go along with Sportsfan's proposal. If Weber gets drafted in the first six rounds, I will acknowledge the error of my ways.

You da man! Way to stand by your convictions, if I'm wrong (as my wife frequently says I am) I will also acknowledge the error of my ways!

Here is were we do agree. I think it is a huge copout to pass ALL of the blame to teammates and coaches. Adam wouldn't throw them under the bus and neither will I.
 

i think the tough thing about weber is more along the lines that brewster stuck with him during the bad and the worse. people are reminded of brewster when they think of weber and that is more of webers legacy than what he actually did or didnt do on the field.

Great observation, I agree.

Tim knew (yes he told me) that other things plauged this team more than QB play. It would have been a huge copout to placate fans my throwing Adam under the bus and replacing him, when he didn't believe that would make the team better.
 

Hey sportsfan: I don't give a rip where the crazy nfl drafts a Gopher Qb. THAT...

does NOT address the incredibly BAD form of the people around here who continue to bash the Gopher QB from the last four years. They are displaying what is WORST about college football. So what if they didn't like Adam Weber. He pretty much shoved it right down their nasty throats by continuing to go out there with the game ball blessings of who ever was coaching the team he played on. These same bashers and trashers tried to defend the incompetent football coach and bashed Weber.

Who gives a crap what round the stinking nfl might draft a Gopher QB in????????? The NFL just plain doesn't draft many Gopher QB's. That is a given. What kind of foolish criteria is THAT??????? I really don't think much of your idea because the crux of the matter here is that needless and mindless and spiteful bashing of weber that STILL goes on even after he has graduated, used up all his elegibility and is long gone. THAT is WAY out of line.

These bashers and mobbers just can't seem to stand the fact that Weber holds those records. The fact is that Weber had just as much to do with Decker being successful here as Decker had with Weber being successful. THAT is what teammates DO for each other. There was greater strength and synergy in the two of them being on the field at the same time helping to make each other better and the two just could flat out pitch and catch the ball... It was as though they were on the same wave length. They made it work. BUT, Decker couldn't have done that by himself. Weber got the ball to him and Weber knew enough to get the ball in play so that Decker could make a play on the ball. Together, they really made some things happen.

So, I'd have to say that your solution is a horrible idea 24. What is important about this is that the young man beat back EVERY challenge for four years, stayed healthy enough to keep making ALL of the starts, sometimes even playing hurt. He always answered the call. The COACH called the shots on who played and who did not play. If any of these mobbers and bashers and trashers have a beef, they should bitch, complain, and question the ability of the stinking coach who called all the shots. His name was brewster. Some of these people defended brewster. They trashed Weber and defended brewster. Why the heck bash, trash and bitch about the qb who is in the top 5 in Big Ten history in some catagories and try to defend a coach who got fired midway through the Big Ten season?

Your idea to end this is a horrible cop out. The mobbers, bashers and trashers should leave the U of M graduate alone and go after the guy who coached him for four years. They should crucify that brewster character and just leave their frustrations over the fact than no one managed to make that fired and failed coach play any other qb and sit Weber.

QB's from Minnesota hardly EVER get drafted by the nfl. I know that. We ALL know that. That won't be changing any time soon. Minnesota never really is a passing team.

Minnesota needs to run the ball and stop the run. They will NEVER pass their way anywhere. And, let's hope for a lot of cold, rainy, snowy weather in late October and November. Make TCF Bank Stadium the MOST impacted by weather stadium in the Big Ten. Make teams HATE to come to Minneapolis during the last 6 games of the Big Ten season. (Of course, that ALL depends on Mother Nature...but...since that's what people other places think any way, let's build a team that is weather-proof and can run the ball and stop the run first and always.)

Let any adverse weather that comes along be the Gophers friend and let it build a home field advantage. The heck with passing. It just won't cut it in late October and November OUTSIDE in Minneapolis.

Man and I up? I always man up with my opinions sportsfan24. Your idea is a total non-starter that only a fool would agree to. Thanks...but...NO thanks...
 

I don't remember it ever getting that ugly for Adam Weber.

The kid took some criticism for being the face of the program through some pretty trying times. I never really remember Weber getting a ton of personal attacks, everything always seemed pretty football related. There might have been some immature people who would have attacked a college player personally for struggling (at times) but the overwhelming amount of criticism was football related.

That kind of criticism is exactly what Weber signed up for. He knew he was going to go and play Big 10 football where you are under a microscope and your play is going to be scrutinized. It is what he wanted! It didn't go exactly the way he planned (i'm sure), but such is life. He is preparing for the NFL draft, he started as a Big 10 QB for 4 years, he earned a degree and he is/already has lived a more exciting life than most people could hope for. So, i'm sorry, but I can't feel too bad for Adam Weber for him taking a little criticism and I would be surprised if he would want you to.

To Mr Royston...

My opinion of Weber doesn't really fit your criteria. I thought he was a solid QB for most of his time with the U but that he had some terrible stretches of play (most of his JR season and the end of his SO season). Now, I understand that it wasn't completely his problem but regardless of where he gets drafted, some of the blame does rest on his shoulders (just like a lot of the props for the two bowl games go to him).

I guess if a team takes a flier on him in the 5th RD, it won't change what I saw with the Gophers. Just like if he ends up a FA, it won't take away from some of the positives. I will say this, if Adam Weber ever becomes an NFL starter, then I believe the naysayers all should be silenced.

I guess my point is that the NFL isn't always the barameter on which to judge a college player (Eric Crouch). I know I don't cherish the memories of watching Maroney run for the U any less because he fizzled in the NFL.
 

does NOT address the incredibly BAD form of the people around here who continue to bash the Gopher QB from the last four years. They are displaying what is WORST about college football. So what if they didn't like Adam Weber. He pretty much shoved it right down their nasty throats by continuing to go out there with the game ball blessings of who ever was coaching the team he played on. These same bashers and trashers tried to defend the incompetent football coach and bashed Weber.

Who gives a crap what round the stinking nfl might draft a Gopher QB in????????? The NFL just plain doesn't draft many Gopher QB's. That is a given. What kind of foolish criteria is THAT??????? I really don't think much of your idea because the crux of the matter here is that needless and mindless and spiteful bashing of weber that STILL goes on even after he has graduated, used up all his elegibility and is long gone. THAT is WAY out of line.

These bashers and mobbers just can't seem to stand the fact that Weber holds those records. The fact is that Weber had just as much to do with Decker being successful here as Decker had with Weber being successful. THAT is what teammates DO for each other. There was greater strength and synergy in the two of them being on the field at the same time helping to make each other better and the two just could flat out pitch and catch the ball... It was as though they were on the same wave length. They made it work. BUT, Decker couldn't have done that by himself. Weber got the ball to him and Weber knew enough to get the ball in play so that Decker could make a play on the ball. Together, they really made some things happen.

So, I'd have to say that your solution is a horrible idea 24. What is important about this is that the young man beat back EVERY challenge for four years, stayed healthy enough to keep making ALL of the starts, sometimes even playing hurt. He always answered the call. The COACH called the shots on who played and who did not play. If any of these mobbers and bashers and trashers have a beef, they should bitch, complain, and question the ability of the stinking coach who called all the shots. His name was brewster. Some of these people defended brewster. They trashed Weber and defended brewster. Why the heck bash, trash and bitch about the qb who is in the top 5 in Big Ten history in some catagories and try to defend a coach who got fired midway through the Big Ten season?

Your idea to end this is a horrible cop out. The mobbers, bashers and trashers should leave the U of M graduate alone and go after the guy who coached him for four years. They should crucify that brewster character and just leave their frustrations over the fact than no one managed to make that fired and failed coach play any other qb and sit Weber.

QB's from Minnesota hardly EVER get drafted by the nfl. I know that. We ALL know that. That won't be changing any time soon. Minnesota never really is a passing team.

Minnesota needs to run the ball and stop the run. They will NEVER pass their way anywhere. And, let's hope for a lot of cold, rainy, snowy weather in late October and November. Make TCF Bank Stadium the MOST impacted by weather stadium in the Big Ten. Make teams HATE to come to Minneapolis during the last 6 games of the Big Ten season. (Of course, that ALL depends on Mother Nature...but...since that's what people other places think any way, let's build a team that is weather-proof and can run the ball and stop the run first and always.)

Let any adverse weather that comes along be the Gophers friend and let it build a home field advantage. The heck with passing. It just won't cut it in late October and November OUTSIDE in Minneapolis.

Man and I up? I always man up with my opinions sportsfan24. Your idea is a total non-starter that only a fool would agree to. Thanks...but...NO thanks...

Well! I see that you are pretty passionate about this subject so I won't interject any of my normal playful sarcasm.

I will just say this; we are in agreement that Adam indeed does have game. I also understand that you don't want to jeopardize that folks who don't agree with us will use Adam's draft status as a verification they were correct if indeed he doesn't get drafted. Can you keep a secret?

I was trying to get them to make a sucker bet......my man, much to the chagrin of those who are not as wise as us (lol) it's a no brainer, Adam will be drafted because NFL execs understand that he was one of the better players in all of college football.:)
 


I don't remember it ever getting that ugly for Adam Weber.

The kid took some criticism for being the face of the program through some pretty trying times. I never really remember Weber getting a ton of personal attacks, everything always seemed pretty football related. There might have been some immature people who would have attacked a college player personally for struggling (at times) but the overwhelming amount of criticism was football related.

That kind of criticism is exactly what Weber signed up for. He knew he was going to go and play Big 10 football where you are under a microscope and your play is going to be scrutinized. It is what he wanted! It didn't go exactly the way he planned (i'm sure), but such is life. He is preparing for the NFL draft, he started as a Big 10 QB for 4 years, he earned a degree and he is/already has lived a more exciting life than most people could hope for. So, i'm sorry, but I can't feel too bad for Adam Weber for him taking a little criticism and I would be surprised if he would want you to.

To Mr Royston...

My opinion of Weber doesn't really fit your criteria. I thought he was a solid QB for most of his time with the U but that he had some terrible stretches of play (most of his JR season and the end of his SO season). Now, I understand that it wasn't completely his problem but regardless of where he gets drafted, some of the blame does rest on his shoulders (just like a lot of the props for the two bowl games go to him).

I guess if a team takes a flier on him in the 5th RD, it won't change what I saw with the Gophers. Just like if he ends up a FA, it won't take away from some of the positives. I will say this, if Adam Weber ever becomes an NFL starter, then I believe the naysayers all should be silenced.

I guess my point is that the NFL isn't always the barameter on which to judge a college player (Eric Crouch). I know I don't cherish the memories of watching Maroney run for the U any less because he fizzled in the NFL.

I can't disagree with anything you said. I think you hit the nail squarely on the head. I was just trying to get those less smarter than yourself to agree to something I believe is a foregone conclusion (just having some fun).

FYI:
I sat next to Adams family at every game, folks would yell some horrible things at him (naturally they would hear). Family members are easy to identify (we have their jersey's on), folks were doing this because they were pissed that the gophers were losing (nobody more than someone who has a child out there) and got some perverted sort of satisfaction out of trashing Adam so that his parents could hear it. Adam's dad on several occasions would have to leave and go up to the concourse. What did I do? I'm blessed with bail money and a clean record. I told them their mouth was writing checks their ass would soon have to cash.....that seemed to work.:)
 

There is no Adam weber debate. Adam weber played a below average season for a freshman. He played an above average season as a sophomore. He played a terrible season as a junior. He played an above average season as a junior. As a four year career he was mediocre to slightly below. He lost 33 games as a starter.

I thank him for putting forth all the effort he did. I thank him for being a gopher. There is no debate though. Regardless of circumstance there is only one thing to judge, results, and those were that of a mediocre to slightly below average qb who won 34% of games and 25% of big ten games.
There is no debate.
 

Of course there is a debate. I think some people don't realize there are 10 other players on the field at the same time, and another 11 players on the field on defense. And I think we can agree that the Gophers didn't have excellent or stable coaching during Weber's time here.
 

Sportsfan24: I like your style! I just refuse to give in to the element that hangs around the game of college football while some of the fans bash the players. I HATE that about the otherwise FANTASTIC College/University Game Day Saturday event called NCAA Football. I've got to admit: as long as there are wise-a$$ed jerks out there who go after specific college players I am probably not going to be too laid back and willing to give in or give up to their obnoxious cheap shots. Leave the kids playing the game alone.

It is up to the coaches to run the programs. They get to call the shots. So, if a fan has a complaint, they should go after the coaches AND the administrators who direct the coaches...who hire and fire and have ALL the power. The coaches and administrators are also very well paid and need to feel the heat when warranted OR to tell the complaining fans where to "get off" the bus if THAT is appropriate.

I'm hoping for a great season for all the kids wearing the Maroon and Gold. Over the decades (I've been going to Gopher football games for over half a centruy) no matter what the outcome of the season...the KIDS playing the games and wearing the M & G have always been fantastic. Even at this age, I still look up to those kids and appreciate their efforts and sacrifices. They ARE heros even to an old timer. They don't always get the best back from some of the fans...BUT...MOST of the fans really do care about them, wish the very best for them and carry around some of the great memories that the players in these Big Ten Games present to we Golden Gopher and Big Ten Fans.

I DO get pretty ornery when people start bashing the kids. That's probably not so good. But, a person has to stand up against wrong-doing where ever and when ever he/she sees it.

Enjoy the year!

Go Gophers!
 




Demetrius Underwood was drafted in the first round. So was Ryan Leaf. To say that being drafted in the 6th round proves he's a good QB is ridiculous. He's a durable guy, good leader, and a decent athlete, and those things could get him drafted and put him as an NFL backup. It doesn't change my opinion of him, which is that he is a below average BCS college qb who is not nearly accurate enough, and never takes over games.
 

Your gramma ain't so much herself monk. She's not even HOT... ; 0 )

You can talk about my talk...I'll just be walking my talk.

You monks are ALL alike. Monks aren't supposed to be thinking about a mess of "...hot grammas..."

Now, go cloister with all the other little monks, monk10.
 

Of course there is a debate. I think some people don't realize there are 10 other players on the field at the same time, and another 11 players on the field on defense. And I think we can agree that the Gophers didn't have excellent or stable coaching during Weber's time here.

If you put horsesh*t in one hand and what ifs in the other guess which one will fill up first (No, I'm not calling Weber horsesh*t). That's exactly what your argument amounts to. His true potential may never be known but his college years can only be judged by what happened not by what could have happened.

Also, I wouldn't mind seeing a breakdown of his passing stats by point differential.
 



rosie/section2:

How about the place in the Big Ten record book???? How about all those Gopher passing recrods?????? You can try to sling it all you want...but you silly little slingers just can NOT explain away those record books. The record books lay it all out right all over your obnoxious little tantrums. Give it up rosie/section2. It's ALL over for you mobbers/bashers/trashers. Get the next media guide. Look it up in the record books. The facts are ALL safely put into the record books and there is not a darn thing you liittle dudes/dudettes, which ever your cases may be, can do. And THAT is a very good thing! ; 0 )
 

rosie/section2:

How about the place in the Big Ten record book???? How about all those Gopher passing recrods?????? You can try to sling it all you want...but you silly little slingers just can NOT explain away those record books. The record books lay it all out right all over your obnoxious little tantrums. Give it up rosie/section2. It's ALL over for you mobbers/bashers/trashers. Get the next media guide. Look it up in the record books. The facts are ALL safely put into the record books and there is not a darn thing you liittle dudes/dudettes, which ever your cases may be, can do. And THAT is a very good thing! ; 0 )

It's not a tantrum. Total yards and similar stats reward him for being a 4 year starter on bad teams. He was behind a lot, and on a good team would never have played til his junior year. Most of the gopher QBs in history have been running QBs. Again, he has some good qualities, and I like him personally very much, and admire him. The fact is that he's not a very good passer. Decent arm strength, but very poor accuracy and not great vision. In what world is giving an honest opinion on someone bashing? I don't know. I agree with you that it isn't his fault at all, I lay much blame on Brew. And Brew should have pulled him like he said he would and allowed Q to start a game. He put Adam in a terrible situation.
 

rosie/section2:

How about the place in the Big Ten record book???? How about all those Gopher passing recrods?????? You can try to sling it all you want...but you silly little slingers just can NOT explain away those record books. The record books lay it all out right all over your obnoxious little tantrums. Give it up rosie/section2. It's ALL over for you mobbers/bashers/trashers. Get the next media guide. Look it up in the record books. The facts are ALL safely put into the record books and there is not a darn thing you liittle dudes/dudettes, which ever your cases may be, can do. And THAT is a very good thing! ; 0 )

All of his records are records of opportunity. Those opportunities were afforded of him as a result of Brewster, a man in which you have called a poor coach, keeping him in the game regardless errors, misfortune, or game situations (blow outs). It was as if Brewster set out to ensure Weber achieved these records regardless of current or future team success.
 

wren

rosie/section2:

How about the place in the Big Ten record book???? How about all those Gopher passing recrods?????? You can try to sling it all you want...but you silly little slingers just can NOT explain away those record books. The record books lay it all out right all over your obnoxious little tantrums. Give it up rosie/section2. It's ALL over for you mobbers/bashers/trashers. Get the next media guide. Look it up in the record books. The facts are ALL safely put into the record books and there is not a darn thing you liittle dudes/dudettes, which ever your cases may be, can do. And THAT is a very good thing! ; 0 )

It is a little less than 4 months until fall camp and you are still babbling about your latest obsession. If you can't afford to buy your medicines, I will help out. Anything to stop your incessant whining!:horse:
 

I have ruled that everyone on both sides of this pissing contest is a winner, and you all have won yellow ribbons.
 


If you put horsesh*t in one hand and what ifs in the other guess which one will fill up first (No, I'm not calling Weber horsesh*t). That's exactly what your argument amounts to. His true potential may never be known but his college years can only be judged by what happened not by what could have happened.

By your reasoning, if the defense played better, and as a result, the Gophers won more games, that would have made Weber a better quarterback.
 

Of course there is a debate. I think some people don't realize there are 10 other players on the field at the same time, and another 11 players on the field on defense. And I think we can agree that the Gophers didn't have excellent or stable coaching during Weber's time here.

I don't think you realize that thinking that Adam Weber was a mediocre QB and that a younger guy with more potential should be played in a likely lost season doesn't necessary mean I think the other 21 guys on the field were great players or that the coaches were good coaches.
 

By your reasoning, if the defense played better, and as a result, the Gophers won more games, that would have made Weber a better quarterback.

No not even close, it means that you need to judge him as a QB by what he's done not by what he could have done in the perfect situation.

The inquiry of passing breakdown by point differential is an attempt to show that he accumulated a large chunk of stats when the result of the game was already decided. I did a preliminary count and found that he had 6 TDs this year in the fourth quarter of games were already out of reach.

So to all of you stats followers there is definitely a skew to his final numbers.
 

...in the "forth" quarter when games were already out of reach.

So to all of you stats followers there is definitely a skew to his final numbers.



So Weber should not have gone fourth in the forth quarter?

skewed stats??? He still did it, and some on here have not even let us know about how they were not even able to play in the "forth" quarter.
 

No not even close, it means that you need to judge him as a QB by what he's done not by what he could have done in the perfect situation.

The inquiry of passing breakdown by point differential is an attempt to show that he accumulated a large chunk of stats when the result of the game was already decided. I did a preliminary count and found that he had 6 TDs this year in the forth quarter when games were already out of reach.

So to all of you stats followers there is definitely a skew to his final numbers.

So am I understanding this correctly....he had 6 TDs in the fourth quarter out of his 20? So 30% of his TDs were thrown in a part of the game that makes up 25% of the game?

That is not notably skewed unless I am reading it wrong....
 

So, how many yards in passes did Decker catch in the fourth quarter? How many td's did he catch in the fourth quarter. He played on a bad team. So, that must mean that his stats mean absolutely NOTHING...is that what you bashers think, say and agree to mob about...bash about? IF you claim that Weber's stats are meaningless you HAVE to take away any credit from Decker too.

You people are really warped with your hatred for Weber.

You bitch about the two best offensive weapons the Gophers have had in the past few seasons.

But, you know what??????? Decker broke some Minnesota receiving records and that was really impressive. And, Weber broke some Minnesota passing records and is very high in some catagories in the Big Ten Record books. THAT is also REALLY impressive. I am thankful that both were home state Golden Gophers. The way they were treated by some of YOU people is truely shameful. No wonder home state kids think for a LONG time before accepting a scholarship or a walk-on invitation from the University of Minnesota Football Team.

You people are truely unbelievable.
 

...in the "forth" quarter when games were already out of reach.

So to all of you stats followers there is definitely a skew to his final numbers.



So Weber should not have gone fourth in the forth quarter?

skewed stats??? He still did it, and some on here have not even let us know about how they were not even able to play in the "forth" quarter.

Your seriously busting my chops over the fact that I missed u in fourth and didn't go back and proof read? I went back and fixed it by the way. I hope it meets your liking now.
 

So am I understanding this correctly....he had 6 TDs in the fourth quarter out of his 20? So 30% of his TDs were thrown in a part of the game that makes up 25% of the game?

That is not notably skewed unless I am reading it wrong....


I'm not talking fourth quarter stats from every game. I'm talking fourth quarter in games that were already out of reach when the stats were accumulated. The games I included were USC, NIU, MSU, Purdue, PSU and Wisc. By the way, there were 7 TDs meeting this criteria. I was on my phone last time and miscounted.

So that's 1/4 of 6 out of 12 games. That's 35% of his stats in approximately 12.5% of the games. Also, these stats were usually accumulated against soft coverage or again 2nd or even 3rd teamers.
 

I think the draft criteria you laid out isn't exactly accurate. If most of the things that were said about Weber from the "anti-Weber" crowd were correct, there is NO WAY any person affiliated with any NFL franchise has any business talking to him, much less ever being drafted.

The argument of "Weber only looked good throwing to Decker" makes me laugh. I know we all love Decker and what he accomplished but let's face it. Last year there were EIGHT other WR's drafted ahead of Decker and on a team that lost Brandon Marshall before the season started (Denver), Decker still amassed a total of 6 catches last year.

In 4 years, Weber basically had Decker and McKnight to throw to. Now that's an impressive array of weapons at your disposal. 4 years, two guys basically above-average at the position to throw the ball to. It couldn't POSSIBLY be that at least some of Weber's inaccurate passes were due to having a corp of receivers that didn't have a frickin' clue what they were doing, eh? Wrong route, wrong cut, wrong shoulder, QB is an idiot, not the receiver?

Classic....

You make some good points. Yeah, it's not like Weber had an overabundance of talent to throw to. And badly coached WR's can make a QB look bad. But it doesn't matter which way the receiver cuts if the pass is thrown at his feet.
 


I'm not talking fourth quarter stats from every game. I'm talking fourth quarter in games that were already out of reach when the stats were accumulated. The games I included were USC, NIU, MSU, Purdue, PSU and Wisc. By the way, there were 7 TDs meeting this criteria. I was on my phone last time and miscounted.

So that's 1/4 of 6 out of 12 games. That's 35% of his stats in approximately 12.5% of the games. Also, these stats were usually accumulated against soft coverage or again 2nd or even 3rd teamers.

Answers my question. Thanks.
 




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