Gutless Playcalling

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PMWinSTP said:
I guess he knows he is safe so why change. I think the Gophs are at the start of slowly regressing. He gets another year for sure. I don't think Coyle makes a move unless it's really apparent the wheels are coming off next year.
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Agree.
I don’t think he would change even if he didn’t feel safe
He believes what he believes
 


PMWinSTP said:
I guess he knows he is safe so why change. I think the Gophs are at the start of slowly regressing. He gets another year for sure. I don't think Coyle makes a move unless it's really apparent the wheels are coming off next year.
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I think the wheels are already off. Our DB recruiting is a bust, our quarterback recruiting and management is a disaster. I don’t see a lot of hope on the horizon at wide receiver, and our coaching staff puts out arguably the worst Gameday experience in the country. I think PJ senses that he’s in a hole too deep to get out of hence the deer in the headlights look. He’ll mis direct and bullshit people as long as he can to hold onto his 6 million per year but imo the ship has sailed. To me his only hope is if some of these young OL turn out to be as good as I think they might be and we catch lightning in a bottle somehow at QB. The portal gonna have to really help at DB or none of it’s gonna matter.
 

Watched the post game presser....the reporters asked about punting in Ohio State territory but in my opinion they asked the wrong question. The issue is less about punthing on 4th and 5 it is more about calling a run play on 3rd and 5 when you had been unable to move the ball on the ground at all.

Easy to justify punting on 4th and 5 or 6.....Much harder to justify not really even giving your team a great chance to pick up the 1st down with the 3rd down play call.

Is what it is at this point though. All boils down to going out there and keeping the Axe next week. Hopefully some injured guys can get healthy and we can put one solid game together against a very mediocre Wisconsin team that is dealing with a lot of key injuries as well.
 

Some guy said:
I hope you put up your sails and go be a fan of another team
You have bad vibes
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Well unfortunately for you the, program needs people like me buying tickets and attending the games and rooting on the Gophers.

To make money we need Gopher fans too, not just PJ fans.
 


Gopherchase said:
I think the wheels are already off. Our DB recruiting is a bust, our quarterback recruiting and management is a disaster. I don’t see a lot of hope on the horizon at wide receiver, and our coaching staff puts out arguably the worst Gameday experience in the country. I think PJ senses that he’s in a hole too deep to get out of hence the deer in the headlights look. He’ll mis direct and bullshit people as long as he can to hold onto his 6 million per year but imo the ship has sailed. To me his only hope is if some of these young OL turn out to be as good as I think they might be and we catch lightning in a bottle somehow at QB. The portal gonna have to really help at DB or none of it’s gonna matter.
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Gophs are playing back ups, back ups to back ups, and 3rd to 5th stringers. Fleck easily gets another year for that reason alone.
 

PMWinSTP said:
Gophs are playing back ups, back ups to back ups, and 3rd to 5th stringers. Fleck easily gets another year for that reason alone.
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While I loathe the game day experience under PJ. I don’t necessarily call for him to get the hook repeatedly. I’d like to have him listen to his own nonsense and change his best. His best changes, but it gets worse.
 

Gopherchase said:
While I loathe the game day experience under PJ. I don’t necessarily call for him to get the hook repeatedly. I’d like to have him listen to his own nonsense and change his best. His best changes, but it gets worse.
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The gameday experience is what you make of it. Home games for me are a full day of fun tailgating, game activities and having fun after game.
 




PMWinSTP said:
The gameday experience is what you make of it. Home games for me are a full day of fun tailgating, game activities and having fun after game.
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Yep! While we got our asses handed to us by Michigan, I had a ton of fun tailgating at the Fairgrounds. It's all in your expectations and what makes for a great day.
 

WoodburyTim said:
Well unfortunately for you the, program needs people like me buying tickets and attending the games and rooting on the Gophers.

To make money we need Gopher fans too, not just PJ fans.
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You're from Woodbury, Tim. Do we really need people like you buying tickets? 🤔😉😅
 







DanvilleGopher said:
Ding Ding Ding!!

THIS!!

This is my biggest problem with the games where we punish lesser talented teams (most pre-conference games) and put them away by ramming the ball down their throats, when we could have worked the QB and receivers on the passing game, improving routes, having the coaches figuring out what plays work and what does not. Be creative with your offense and give other looks for teams to prepare for rather than just pounding the rock and draining the clock.

To me this kind of approach makes your program less attractive to recruits! You need skill players and if you're going back to a 1955 approach to win games, what high skilled offensive player wants to be in a system like this? I think we've seen the decline in recruiting as well; is it related to what 'seems' to be a 'change' in his philosophy as he seemed more aggressive and inclined to roll the dice earlier in his career than he does now. Players? Maybe, but that's on Fleck as well!

I've complained in post games about this in the past and then later read comments by others that; 'people are complaining about victories', showing they're completely missing the point.

Fleck truly is a control freak, which isn't a horrible thing, but he's not listening to the questions that have been raised and his responses are; he needs to educate people for them to understand why he does things, as in his mind they worked!

Have we reached the Fleck ceiling? Unless he drastically changes his game strategy (I think both offensively AND defensively due to being ultra conservative, along with other growing warts), my answer is yes!
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I've also wondered about what you point out about winning the easy ones by running them into the ground, when he could be developing other aspects of the game, giving his reserve QB some action, tinkering with the passing game. He's like the old-time coaches who thought a four-yard run was the best play because three of them made a first down.
 


forever a gopher said:
Talent cures a lot of ills, for sure. Of course, there are endless examples of “talented” teams that underperform.

Not quite sure I understand your argument, as it all falls at the foot of the same individual, PJ. When you’re the coach, GM, and president of the team as you are in college, whether it’s an in-game strategy issue, a recruiting issue, or a play calling issue, you’re the one doing all the hiring/firing and making all the decisions, so it doesn’t really matter what the issue is at the end of the day.
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PJ over-achieves most years. He's been better than any other coach we've had in the last 55 years.

Unless you have someone really big in mind to hire?
 

Ski-U-Mahed said:
Good coaches coach up their talent. Look at Barry Alvarez and Kirk Feritz. Never once did these guys have a top 25 class but still won 9 or more games in the regular season. Their rosters were filled with 3 star kids and still competed every year for a B1G title. Stop making excuses for a guy who can't coach.
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I don't see Wisconsin & Iowa as much ahead of us. I think Fleck can definitely get to their level.

Whereas all of our other coaches fell short.
 

Tim from Rosemount said:
Well, 10-1-1 and Rose Bowl win in 1993 with us giving him the only loss. I think us diehards would build a PJ statue if that happened. It was year 3 or 4 for Barry, OC was Brad Childress, UGH!
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Fleck got us an 11-2 season.

9-0, in Playoff contention. Win over #4 Penn State, and up to #7 in the polls. And a Bowl win over Auburn (who had just beaten Alabama).
 

disco said:
Yet you don't want to do what it takes to get the talent needed to win. That's assuming we even could. You'd be happy cheering for some mediocre minor league team that runs a clean program. I'd rather cheer for a sleazy, corrupt program that wins, as long as they're smart enough to not get caught. Granted, in this market, the press doesn't protect the program like in other markets (see Haskins, Clem)
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I loved Haskins and would never have thrown him under the bus. I wouldn't have kicked Royce White & Trevor Mbakwe off of our NCAA team that returned its top-9 players. I wouldn't have kicked Reggie Lynch off of Pitino's best team. And I'd pay whatever it takes for a good coach.

But I won't ever agree with paying kids 6 & 7-figures and luxury cars to play for a school.
 


MNVCGUY said:
Watched the post game presser....the reporters asked about punting in Ohio State territory but in my opinion they asked the wrong question. The issue is less about punthing on 4th and 5 it is more about calling a run play on 3rd and 5 when you had been unable to move the ball on the ground at all.

Easy to justify punting on 4th and 5 or 6.....Much harder to justify not really even giving your team a great chance to pick up the 1st down with the 3rd down play call.

Is what it is at this point though. All boils down to going out there and keeping the Axe next week. Hopefully some injured guys can get healthy and we can put one solid game together against a very mediocre Wisconsin team that is dealing with a lot of key injuries as well.
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The playcalling was really gutless - but it is what it is -- this is what we have been treated to all year. Not a single one of us believed we were going to win (except the very delusional) and we knew it was going to be a beatdown. At least when Mason was here, sure he took his fair share of beatdowns and meltdowns, but at least I would tune in knowing we just might have a chance to win on any given Saturday, including Ohio St.

Fleck needs to be better than this. This year has not been very fun to watch at all.
 

EasyThere Pilgrim said:
I loved Haskins and would never have thrown him under the bus. I wouldn't have kicked Royce White & Trevor Mbakwe off of our NCAA team that returned its top-9 players. I wouldn't have kicked Reggie Lynch off of Pitino's best team. And I'd pay whatever it takes for a good coach.

But I won't ever agree with paying kids 6 & 7-figures and luxury cars to play for a school.
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Yikes.
 

PMWinSTP said:
Gophs are playing back ups, back ups to back ups, and 3rd to 5th stringers. Fleck easily gets another year for that reason alone.
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We have more starters available then most teams. This can’t be a crutch. I’m not calling for regime change but injuries are too far fetched when you have competitors in much worse shape performing as well or better.
 

MNVCGUY said:
I really hope the media goes after this in the post game. The punts from the opponents 40 in a game that was still competitive is playing scared.

When you are a massive underdog you should be able to play free with nothing to lose....but that clearly is not the way we approached this game. Disappointing to say the least. Ohio State was almost certainly going to win the game so cut it loose and take some chances. Hell, throw a bomb on third down, if it gets picked it was essentially a punt anyway.
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What the????
Some of this have been saying this since 2019 and you would go on and on about how dumb and misguided we are.

Now here you are today, finally with your eyes open and are like “I hope the media goes after this….”

Glad you’re on board I guess and apology accepted????
 

MNVCGUY said:
You may be right....but it is easy to deflect the criticism when the program is coming off of 9 win seasons....much harder to do that after winning 5/6/7 games.

He has done enough here to survive a down year from time to time but if it becomes a trend he will start to feel some real heat.
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If it becomes a trend?
I mean…..
 

hello-world said:
Yeah, I'm good with Tressel-ball (only because it has worked), but they (TWO TIMES!) sent a bunch formation on one side with a lone receiver on the other on third-and-long. They (TWO TIMES!) drew man coverage. And they (TWO TIMES!) ran the ball on 3rd and 5+.

WHICH WOULD BE FINE IF YOU THEN GO FOR IT ON FOURTH DOWN BUT THESE JERKS PUNTED! WHO DOES THAT? WHY CALL A RUN IF YOU'RE NOT GOING TO GO ON FOURTH?
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Ha!!! PJ is dumb. Plain and simple. It’s been clear since 2019.
 

Replacement Gopher said:
What the????
Some of this have been saying this since 2019 and you would go on and on about how dumb and misguided we are.

Now here you are today, finally with your eyes open and are like “I hope the media goes after this….”

Glad you’re on board I guess and apology accepted????
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I thought the way to play a vastly superior opponent on the road is to run the time down. Limit the number of possessions. Bore the crowd. Run...and hope to get some 1st-downs. And DON'T TURN IT OVER. Hope they make some mistakes. It was 13-0 at halftime.

But all the geniuses here say the way to play a vastly superior opponent on the road is to air it out.
 

MNVCGUY said:
Watched the post game presser....the reporters asked about punting in Ohio State territory but in my opinion they asked the wrong question. The issue is less about punthing on 4th and 5 it is more about calling a run play on 3rd and 5 when you had been unable to move the ball on the ground at all.

Easy to justify punting on 4th and 5 or 6.....Much harder to justify not really even giving your team a great chance to pick up the 1st down with the 3rd down play call.

Is what it is at this point though. All boils down to going out there and keeping the Axe next week. Hopefully some injured guys can get healthy and we can put one solid game together against a very mediocre Wisconsin team that is dealing with a lot of key injuries as well.
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This will be unpopular but I actually didn't mind that run call. We were getting something like 3.3 yards per carry at that point on average. If we were in 4 down territory, it was very reasonable to expect we could get 5 years in two running plays. I would have still gone for it on 4th down, however.

BTW, when we talk about play calling... why is it that people only remember when aggressive play calls work?
 

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