Gutless Playcalling

I probably know better, it almost seems like he’s trying to get canned. But that wouldn’t make any sense, would it?

Some of the stuff is just so not solid…..
Probably not. But, I actually don't think PJ would mind. He'd get a hell of a pay day, I'm sure. And I think he sees what is coming, with the elimination of divisions and the new teams coming into the Big Ten. Things will get MUCH harder for PJ and the team in general going forward.
 

You may be right....but it is easy to deflect the criticism when the program is coming off of 9 win seasons....much harder to do that after winning 5/6/7 games.

He has done enough here to survive a down year from time to time but if it becomes a trend he will start to feel some real heat.
The end of the Big 10 Waste brings to a close the era of 9 win seasons. I'm not trying to turn this into another Kill comparison but how many 9 win seasons does Fleck have if he's playing a Wisconsin who was an annual competitor, a Bo Pellini Nebraska team who routinely won 9 games, an Iowa team that still had a forward pass, a Fitz Northwestern team that wasn't far removed from Big 10 championship game appearances? This is Jerry Kill's second term.
 

That's why he's literally on his hands and knees at now almost every PJ Fleck show begging anyone listening to donate to the NIL collective.
 




I loved Haskins and would never have thrown him under the bus. I wouldn't have kicked Royce White & Trevor Mbakwe off of our NCAA team that returned its top-9 players. I wouldn't have kicked Reggie Lynch off of Pitino's best team. And I'd pay whatever it takes for a good coach.

But I won't ever agree with paying kids 6 & 7-figures and luxury cars to play for a school.
How about 5 figures and modest, mid-sized sedans?
 

Gophs are playing back ups, back ups to back ups, and 3rd to 5th stringers. Fleck easily gets another year for that reason alone.
Just because you say something doesn’t make it true. He’s the players out for the tOSU game (spot on depth chart):
WR Brockington (3/4)
RB Taylor (1)
RB Williams (2/3)
LB Lindenberg (1)
LB Baranowski (2)
S Gousby (2)
DL Jeffries (2/3)

Look where the team has been at for game 11 in years past when it comes to injuries. This isn’t that bad and better than many teams in the B1G.
 

I'm finally fully on board with some of the complaints many of you have had about offensive philosophy. The only chance you have to spring an upset against a team like Ohio State is to be aggressive and maximize every possession.

I can be ok with the idea of a punt from the opponents 43 if you are aggressively going after the first down and come up short. But in a game where you can't run, calling running plays on 3rd and 5 or 3rd and 6 isn't going to get it done. At least try a pass.....

Against a team like Ohio State any drive that gets into their territory should probably be viewed as 4 down territory. Especially knowing they are likely to drive down the field once they get the ball back.

I am firmly against the crowd saying Fleck should be fired after this year but I really hope he takes a hard look at some things after this season and makes some changes.
Great take. It is easy to say fire the coach, I have said it but now is not the time. Keep this philosophy up and will it will be time. We are getting close.
 

I'm not sure this has been brought up, but gutless PJ proof can be found right before half. Fleck had TOs and didn't use them with OSU having a 4th and 12 from their own 19. Use the TOs and force them to punt! Possible outcomes:
1. Block punt for TD--GOOD
2. Block punt for safety--GOOD
3. Return punt for TD--GOOD
4. Muff punt (can be recovered but not returned)--end of half--ZERO RISK Neutral
5. Unreturnable--Neutral
6. Return and fumble--end of half ; ZERO RISK Neutral
7. Return and fumble recovery goes for TD--BAD
8. Rough punter--automatic first down; 1 more untimed play 64 yards from end zone--BAD but high probability of Neutral.

Plenty of upside (albeit rare); very limited downside...even more rare! To beat the #2 team in the country, you need a bounce or two. Fleck is too scared to even try to use a TO to get a bounce and thinks worst case scenario. LOSER MENTALITY!
 



I thought the way to play a vastly superior opponent on the road is to run the time down. Limit the number of possessions. Bore the crowd. Run...and hope to get some 1st-downs. And DON'T TURN IT OVER. Hope they make some mistakes. It was 13-0 at halftime.

But all the geniuses here say the way to play a vastly superior opponent on the road is to air it out.
You're missing one thing. When you do move the ball to midfield and beyond, you need to take your shots and actually try to score TD's, not play the field position game and punt it away every time. It was 13 - 0 at the half, but it felt like 31 - 0 with the way we called plays all half.
 

This will be unpopular but I actually didn't mind that run call. We were getting something like 3.3 yards per carry at that point on average. If we were in 4 down territory, it was very reasonable to expect we could get 5 years in two running plays. I would have still gone for it on 4th down, however.

BTW, when we talk about play calling... why is it that people only remember when aggressive play calls work?
I didn't like the run call based on what PJ has said in prior games when calling running plays in that situation. He has stated that they run, because the defense is in a cover 2 look and that is a good time to run against it since they won't have a safety in the box. OSU was not in that cover 2 look on those runs so either his answer prior is a load of crap or the decision to run on 3rd and 5 was a horsesh1t call.
 

I'm not sure this has been brought up, but gutless PJ proof can be found right before half. Fleck had TOs and didn't use them with OSU having a 4th and 12 from their own 19. Use the TOs and force them to punt! Possible outcomes:
1. Block punt for TD--GOOD
2. Block punt for safety--GOOD
3. Return punt for TD--GOOD
4. Muff punt (can be recovered but not returned)--end of half--ZERO RISK Neutral
5. Unreturnable--Neutral
6. Return and fumble--end of half ; ZERO RISK Neutral
7. Return and fumble recovery goes for TD--BAD
8. Rough punter--automatic first down; 1 more untimed play 64 yards from end zone--BAD but high probability of Neutral.

Plenty of upside (albeit rare); very limited downside...even more rare! To beat the #2 team in the country, you need a bounce or two. Fleck is too scared to even try to use a TO to get a bounce and thinks worst case scenario. LOSER MENTALITY!
9. Call fair catch near midfield and Give D. Kesich a chance for 3 points with a free kick.
 

You're missing one thing. When you do move the ball to midfield and beyond, you need to take your shots and actually try to score TD's, not play the field position game and punt it away every time. It was 13 - 0 at the half, but it felt like 31 - 0 with the way we called plays all half.
What if we punt it inside the 10...and Ohio State feels a little pressure only up 13-0 and turns it over? And more clock runs down. Suddenly it might be a 1-score game midway through the 3rd.

If we air it out...it's more possessions and more chances for the better team to prevail.
 



Someone recently told me disciples of Tressel keep trying to play Tresselball but don't realize that Tressel himself was trying to move away from Tresselball in the late 2000s because it was clear it didn't work anymore.
 

I didn't like the run call based on what PJ has said in prior games when calling running plays in that situation. He has stated that they run, because the defense is in a cover 2 look and that is a good time to run against it since they won't have a safety in the box. OSU was not in that cover 2 look on those runs so either his answer prior is a load of crap or the decision to run on 3rd and 5 was a horsesh1t call.
Ok. Guess I don't recall PJ saying that. Also don't know what coverage OSU was in for that play. But c'mon... by that logic, PJ should run every time it's 3rd and 5 or less if the defense is in Cover 2. And we should throw it every time the D is bring a safety up. And if he changes from that EVER, it's a crummy call? Michigan doesn't need to steal signs if that is the case.
 


What the????
Some of this have been saying this since 2019 and you would go on and on about how dumb and misguided we are.

Now here you are today, finally with your eyes open and are like “I hope the media goes after this….”

Glad you’re on board I guess and apology accepted????
Fleck has always trended towards conservative but in most of those past games it has been against a team we were an even match with which in turn can make a conservative philosophy make sense.

Against a team like Ohio State the only shot at an upset is to really go after it. Punting from their territory isn’t going to get it done.

We were almost certainly losing that game no matter what we did but I don’t like throwing in the towel early. Gotta take risks to beat a team you are a significant underdog against in basically every way.
 

The end of the Big 10 Waste brings to a close the era of 9 win seasons. I'm not trying to turn this into another Kill comparison but how many 9 win seasons does Fleck have if he's playing a Wisconsin who was an annual competitor, a Bo Pellini Nebraska team who routinely won 9 games, an Iowa team that still had a forward pass, a Fitz Northwestern team that wasn't far removed from Big 10 championship game appearances? This is Jerry Kill's second term.
I disagree that 9 win seasons are off the table.

Winning the conference in this new format will be nearly impossible but we can still go over .500 in conference play and push for 9+ win seasons with bowl games included.
 

Someone recently told me disciples of Tressel keep trying to play Tresselball but don't realize that Tressel himself was trying to move away from Tresselball in the late 2000s because it was clear it didn't work anymore.
Meanwhile Iowa is 9-2 while losing to Minnesota and being more conservative than Minnesota

There is more than one way to win. For sure
 

I think the wheels are already off. Our DB recruiting is a bust, our quarterback recruiting and management is a disaster. I don’t see a lot of hope on the horizon at wide receiver, and our coaching staff puts out arguably the worst Gameday experience in the country. I think PJ senses that he’s in a hole too deep to get out of hence the deer in the headlights look. He’ll mis direct and bullshit people as long as he can to hold onto his 6 million per year but imo the ship has sailed. To me his only hope is if some of these young OL turn out to be as good as I think they might be and we catch lightning in a bottle somehow at QB. The portal gonna have to really help at DB or none of it’s gonna matter.
The first issue with the portal is who we lose.
 

What if we punt it inside the 10...and Ohio State feels a little pressure only up 13-0 and turns it over? And more clock runs down. Suddenly it might be a 1-score game midway through the 3rd.

If we air it out...it's more possessions and more chances for the better team to prevail.
Possessions are down this year due to the clock always running, so airing it out on 3rd and 5 isn’t really that risky in terms of time.
OSU felt no pressure from us the entire game as they could see we weren’t trying to actually score and win the game.
 


I'm not sure this has been brought up, but gutless PJ proof can be found right before half. Fleck had TOs and didn't use them with OSU having a 4th and 12 from their own 19. Use the TOs and force them to punt! Possible outcomes:
1. Block punt for TD--GOOD
2. Block punt for safety--GOOD
3. Return punt for TD--GOOD
4. Muff punt (can be recovered but not returned)--end of half--ZERO RISK Neutral
5. Unreturnable--Neutral
6. Return and fumble--end of half ; ZERO RISK Neutral
7. Return and fumble recovery goes for TD--BAD
8. Rough punter--automatic first down; 1 more untimed play 64 yards from end zone--BAD but high probability of Neutral.

Plenty of upside (albeit rare); very limited downside...even more rare! To beat the #2 team in the country, you need a bounce or two. Fleck is too scared to even try to use a TO to get a bounce and thinks worst case scenario. LOSER MENTALITY!
He seems to have lost any ability to weigh risk and reward. He sees only risk. If he runs your list through his head, he sees only No. 7.
 

Coaching special teams and defense does wonders, I guess.
Yeah. The tressel model doesn’t work very well when you blow coverages, miss tackles, and drop balls

The whole model is shorten the game and out execute them on a small sample size of plays.
It allows you to beat teams who are more talented than you. And you trust that you’re going to our execute the teams less talented than you too.

The issue is when you shorten the game and you suck.
 

Yeah. The tressel model doesn’t work very well when you blow coverages, miss tackles, and drop balls

The whole model is shorten the game and out execute them on a small sample size of plays.
It allows you to beat teams who are more talented than you. And you trust that you’re going to our execute the teams less talented than you too.

The issue is when you shorten the game and you suck.
Yep. You can't shorten the game if you can't stop anyone. That'll never work.
 

The issue is when you shorten the game and you suck.
Yep. You can't shorten the game if you can't stop anyone. That'll never work.
Or if the more talented team plays well in the 2nd half.

The hope is that at 13-0 at halftime...the undefeated National-Championship-or-bust home-team tenses up. 1 mistake...and they're midway through the 3rd quarter within 1 score of losing.

But Ohio State came out after halftime and played very well.
 

The issue is when you shorten the game and you suck.

The most succinct description of this 2023 program I’ve ever seen. Even in games that are competitive PJ is running out the clock while behInd 🤷‍♂️. This is way, way over my head.
 

The most succinct description of this 2023 program I’ve ever seen. Even in games that are competitive PJ is running out the clock while behInd 🤷‍♂️. This is way, way over my head.
Yeah I mean I’m super disappointed in the team.
But not because of the strategy. Because there aren’t enough good players on the field on defense and at QB.
 

Just because you say something doesn’t make it true. He’s the players out for the tOSU game (spot on depth chart):
WR Brockington (3/4)
RB Taylor (1)
RB Williams (2/3)
LB Lindenberg (1)
LB Baranowski (2)
S Gousby (2)
DL Jeffries (2/3)

Look where the team has been at for game 11 in years past when it comes to injuries. This isn’t that bad and better than many teams in the B1G.
You realize this just proves my post, right? Nubin was 5th in RB depth. I don't think he even played the position in HS.
 
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Yeah I mean I’m super disappointed in the team.
But not because of the strategy. Because there aren’t enough good players on the field on defense and at QB.

Against a team like OSU, yeah. Against Purdue or Northwestern, they’re plenty athletic enough.
 




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