Doogie: Tubby missing out on recruits is being underplayed by local media

Donate To GopherHole
I'm a little a loss for who some people think we are. I am a die hard Gopher fan, but to act like we need to start looking for a new coach because we aren't landing 5 star recruits on a consistant basis is INSANE.

I've said it on here a million times, I think Tubby hasn't lived up to expectations. I also think Tubby has issues within his program that need altering. However, the idea that he doesn't bring in enough talent for our liking is a horrendous (IMO) take.

If our team consisted of:
Trevor Mbakwe (healthy)
Big Mo (healthy)
Sampson (healthy)
Royce White
Rodney Williams
Devoe Joseph
Andre Hollins
Austin Hollins
Elliot Elliason
Joe Coleman
Chip Armelin
Oto

We would NEVER be talking about a lack of talent on our program. Tubby lost a lot with the Royce White saga (he's a very talented player), Devoe Joseph and injuries. If you want to put the Devoe Joseph and Royce White nonsense on Tubby, that's fine, but that's an entirely different question.

It would be like saying, the Twins got so little production out of their catching position last season because they refuse to spend money there. You're right, they got no production out of the C position, but it's NOT because they didn't spend money there.
 

Doogie said:
Did you listen? Was on for 20 minutes. Praised Elliott endlessly, and talked about how impressed I was by how hard they played vs. VT. Was plenty positive. Just think the recruits he's missed on is underplayed. Here's the list thanks to my friend, Ryan James.

2012

Marcus Paige – North Carolina

Adam Woodbury – Iowa

AJ Hammons – Purdue

Nick Banyard – New Mexico

Steve Taylor – Marquette

Cameron Biedscheid – Notre Dame



2011

Naadir Tharpe – Kansas

Josh Oglesby – Iowa

Paul Jesperson – Virginia

Travis Trice – Michigan State

TaShawn Thomas – Houston

Trey Burke – Michigan

Ryan Boatright – UCONN

Malcolm Brogdon - Virginia


2010

Corey Joseph – Texas

Vander Blue – Marquette

Trevor Releford – Alabama

Rickey Kreklow – Missouri

Zach McCabe – Iowa

Tim Hardaway – Michigan

Alex Kirk – New Mexico

Ray McCallum – Detroit

Harrison Barnes – North Carolina



2009

Darius Smith – UCONN then juco

Chris Colvin – Iowa State then juco

Eric Bledsoe – Kentucky

Glen Rice – Georgia Tech

Sam Dower – Gonzaga

Andrew Fitzgerald – Oklahoma

Daniel Miller – Georgia Tech

Torin Walker – Oklahoma State

Dan Jennings – West Virginia


2008

Verdell Jones III – Indiana

Krys Faber - DePaul
Click to expand...

Would it be reasonable to expect you to also list the recruits that Tubby DID get and the teams that he beat out for those recruits at the same time you call him out for missing on recruits? Guys like RSIII, Devoe Joseph, Trevor, Rodney, Colton Iverson, Mo Walker, etc.? Seems like either lazy journalism on your part if you didn't or simply wanting to show bias for you position by not giving the other side visibility.

Either way: EPIC FAIL Doogie. Maybe that is why KFAN kicked you to the curb.
 


Well Andre Hollins is FROM tennessee and he was a top 100 recruit on espn, so it is possible
 

Parski1 said:
Can't this thread just die?
Click to expand...

Not if you keep replying to it. Every time you do it bumps it back to the top. Agreed though that it is EPIC FAIL by Doogie.
 



2012

Marcus Paige – North Carolina

Adam Woodbury – Iowa

AJ Hammons – Purdue

Nick Banyard – New Mexico- Would the Gophers have taken either Banyard or Taylor over Buggs? It seems like all were in the PF mix.

Steve Taylor – Marquette

Cameron Biedscheid – Notre Dame



2011

Naadir Tharpe – Kansas

Josh Oglesby – Iowa

Paul Jesperson – Virginia Gophers missed on Jesperson which was disappointing to say the least, but who on this list do the take over Andre Hollins? Gophers seemed to get in late on Travis Trice/Trey Burke

Travis Trice – Michigan State

TaShawn Thomas – Houston

Trey Burke – Michigan

Ryan Boatright – UCONN

Malcolm Brogdon - Virginia


2010

Corey Joseph – Texas

Vander Blue – Marquette

Trevor Releford – Alabama

Rickey Kreklow – Missouri

Zach McCabe – Iowa

Tim Hardaway – Michigan

Alex Kirk – New Mexico

Ray McCallum – Detroit

Harrison Barnes – North Carolina

This 2010 list is probably the most objectionable because Cory wasn't coming here when his own brother was thinking about transferring, McCabe/Kreklow/Kirk/McCallum all stayed to play in their home state. You could add Zeigler (sp?) to this list as well. I think Tubby made some poor decisions in 2010, but a lot of these guys were really tough to land considering so many stayed home.


2009

Darius Smith – UCONN then juco- Tubby wouldn't wait for Smith and signed Justin Cobbs, can't say he really lost on Smith/Colvin

Chris Colvin – Iowa State then juco

Eric Bledsoe – Kentucky

Glen Rice – Georgia Tech

Sam Dower – Gonzaga- You hear conflicting reports on the Gophers interest in Dower, they certainly did not make him a priority

Andrew Fitzgerald – Oklahoma

Daniel Miller – Georgia Tech

Torin Walker – Oklahoma State

Dan Jennings – West Virginia


2008

Verdell Jones III – Indiana

Krys Faber - DePaul- Most fans didn't exactly want Faber with Sampson III and Iverson already signed up in that class

The biggest point I can make is that this list is misleading because it is a bunch of guy the Gophers offered, but did not land. How many of them were actually wanted more by the Gophers than the guys they did sign? There are a lot of players listed who were not more highly regarded than the players the Gophers signed in those years. It's certainly inaccurate to make it look like the Gophers swung and missed on all of these guys before settling on players on the current roster. I think Tubby has swung and missed more than he should in the fall, but not by a large amount. I'd ask you Doogie to look more in to the number of Spring recruits Tubby has landed and whether that appears to be a winning strategy. I also think that the Gophers strategy of waiting so long to identify and offer top targets has really put them behind the 8 ball with the 2012 class being the most glaring example.
 

You keep bringing up spring recruiting like it was a conscious decision to go after guys late. It's been discussed at length that those recruits are the products of premature roster turnover.
 

The choice was either to play short of players, or get spring recruits.
 



Gold Vision said:
You keep bringing up spring recruiting like it was a conscious decision to go after guys late. It's been discussed at length that those recruits are the products of premature roster turnover.
Click to expand...

Yes and no. The staff has 13 scholarships to give out and I don't believe they need to play with a full 13 each year, but I believe Tubby has filled every available scholarship by Fall. The 2010 class contained four Spring recruits which is almost 1/3 of our roster. We had one scholarship that we didn't use in the Fall, saving it for Cory Joseph. Then 3 players fell under the classification of premature roster turnover in Royce White, Paul Carter, and Justin Cobbs. I don't think it was wise to fill all those scholarships at that point, none of the 4 players signed that Spring played a key role on the 2010 roster with Oto redshirting, the two guards playing very little despite a desperate need at the position, and Mo got hurt early. I can see an argument as to where the Gophers needed 2-3 Spring recruits over the past two years due to roster turnover, but certainly not 6.
 

I don't know if anybody said this. I didn't go back and read 7 pages of comments, sorry. But if it's true that the past 5 years of recruiting leaves an ambiguious record, which I think is a point well argued... if this is true...

Then a clearer picture will emerge with the 2014s. This is possibly the highest rated MN class ever. If Tubby misses on Jones, Vaughan and Theisen, all of 'em, then you can say "Oops." Won't matter if it's because he didn't go hard enough or what, that will be a MISS of epic proportions. I personally would hope you'd get 2 out of 3 to stay at home.
 

maybe tubby should recruit kids no one else wants sign all of his targets then dooger couldnt complain about tubby missing out on 4 and 5 star recruits
 

Bob_Loblaw said:
I'm a little a loss for who some people think we are. I am a die hard Gopher fan, but to act like we need to start looking for a new coach because we aren't landing 5 star recruits on a consistant basis is INSANE.
Click to expand...

Here's the disconnect that exists in a significant portion of the Gopher fanbase: they think that because a HOF coach comes here, that elite recruits are going to be beating down our doors wanting to sign with Minnesota. It ain't gonna happen. Does anyone in their right mind think that Ben Howland or Tom Crean would recruit as well as they do now at UCLA and Indiana if they were at Minnesota? Does anyone think that Lane Kiffin or Will Muschamp would recruit as well as they do now at USC and Florida if they were at Minnesota? Here on planet Earth, that's not the way the real world works.

Could Tubby recruit better? Absolutely. Is it fair to expect him to recruit better (to Minnesota!) simply because of who he is and his past record? No! It's patently absurd. Recruiting is way, way down on the list of things that Tubby needs to fix about himself.
 



At this point in time Howland and Crean are not HOF coaches.

I do think a HOF coach (Coach K., Roy Williams, Jim Calhoun seem to be the only active ones) could recruit big time talent to Minnesota.

That said I agree with the above points that there are bigger problems with retention than with recruiting.
 

scher215 said:
There's only so much you can critisize a guy for in an hour. After all the talk about transfers, tournament wins, poor defense, poor offense, record without including Iowa, the silence of the barn, only having one good player, how overrated other players are, how weak the team is, poor subsituting, being too old, being too tough, telling him to stop complaining when he never did, throwing players under the bus, the players he did sign, the media also has to have time to call Trevor a satanic human being, not recruiting enough PG's, Al Nolen getting hurt, Trevor getting hurt, no tournament wins, no final four's, no championships, complaining for a practice facility, Maturi not building a practice facility, complaining about walking across the street to lift weights, not deserving a contract extension, already making too much money, being lazy, recruting Royce White when he should have known he was trouble, ...

well, not a lot of time left for the media to bash specific players he missed on with recruiting too.

(That was a much longer list than I thought I'd get, no wonder the MN media is so well paid they've got a lot of work to do with how awful Tubby is!)
Click to expand...

Funny post, I lol'd.
 


dpodoll68 said:
Here's the disconnect that exists in a significant portion of the Gopher fanbase: they think that because a HOF coach comes here, that elite recruits are going to be beating down our doors wanting to sign with Minnesota. It ain't gonna happen. Does anyone in their right mind think that Ben Howland or Tom Crean would recruit as well as they do now at UCLA and Indiana if they were at Minnesota? Does anyone think that Lane Kiffin or Will Muschamp would recruit as well as they do now at USC and Florida if they were at Minnesota? Here on planet Earth, that's not the way the real world works.

Could Tubby recruit better? Absolutely. Is it fair to expect him to recruit better (to Minnesota!) simply because of who he is and his past record? No! It's patently absurd. Recruiting is way, way down on the list of things that Tubby needs to fix about himself.
Click to expand...

Absurd? You really beleive that?

He makes the $$ he does due to who he is and his past record. Surely, the expectation to recruit better (even to MN, the horror!!!) is part of the deal. At least for those that can look at things without bias.
 


BarnBurner said:
Absurd? You really beleive that?
Click to expand...

I believe it, because it is fact. Adolph Rupp in his prime would not be able to recruit to Minnesota the way that some unreasonable people expect Tubby to.

(P.S. I before E, except after C.)
 

dpodoll68 said:
I believe it, because it is fact. Adolph Rupp in his prime would not be able to recruit to Minnesota the way that some unreasonable people expect Tubby to.

(P.S. I before E, except after C.)
Click to expand...

Well maybe Dutcher and Mussleman were better than Rupp because both had top ranked recruiting classes here.

None the less- I agree with you dpdoll, that Tubby has recruited fine here.
 

BarnBurner said:
Absurd? You really beleive that?

He makes the $$ he does due to who he is and his past record. Surely, the expectation to recruit better (even to MN, the horror!!!) is part of the deal. At least for those that can look at things without bias.
Click to expand...
Except what you're not seeing is overall his recruiting is he is recruiting better and winning more that his predecessor. That is what he was paid to do.
 

zambam said:
Except what you're not seeing is overall his recruiting is he is recruiting better and winning more that his predecessor. That is what he was paid to do.
Click to expand...

That is a pretty low benchmark.

I think Tubby is a good coach. I was expecting more than good.
 

anyone else watch Oak Hill Academy (with AJ Hammons) vs Miller-Grove last night on ESPN. D1 players all over the court and AJ Hammons was the only one I remember the Gophers talking to. And from that one game it looks like that was a good miss.
 

Minnesconsin fan said:
anyone else watch Oak Hill Academy (with AJ Hammons) vs Miller-Grove last night on ESPN. D1 players all over the court and AJ Hammons was the only one I remember the Gophers talking to. And from that one game it looks like that was a good miss.
Click to expand...

He was a 4-star based on potential only. Reviews of his play were never very outstanding, even from his own coach.
 

BigGopherFan said:
What frustrates me is that he didn't see the potential is guys like Berggren (sp?) and Wolters.
Click to expand...

Report on Nate Wolters and his team:
This afternoon South Dakota State ended the U of Washington's 32-game home non-conference win streak, 92-73. Nate Wolters had 34 points for the Jackrabbits. Washington scored the first two points at the opening tipoff and that was the only lead they had in the game. At the half, SDSU led 51-33. In the second half, the Huskies closed to within 11 a couple of times but throughout most of the second half, SDSU held a 13 to 16 point lead.

Lenny Wilkens did the color commentary for the television coverage and noted Wolters outplayed (my word -- he stated it a little differently) Washington's freshman guard (who has already announced it's likely he'll be one and done because the NBA will be calling). The announcers commented on how some power-conference programs missed Wolters in the recruiting process.

Incidently, Nate's nursing a sore ankle from a couple games ago.

The Jackrabbits kicked the snot out of your hockey friends, UND, by 38 points about 10 days ago and then, showing their youth, I guess, went to Grand Forks and got beat by UND by 19. Still trying to figure that one out -- which team didn't show up at which arena.
 

BGF - berrgren was already committed to Wisconsin when tubby was hired. Bruiser and some freshman are tho only two MN kids on WI that tubby passed on.
 

Where are all of the guys that called me Mrs. Wolters when I was saying Nate was a very good player. He couldn't play for the Gophers they said. Nolen was better. Hogwash.
 

Back to the original topic. I'm not so concerned with Tubby's recruiting. Seems to me he has an eye for talent, and getting them here. Keeping them on campus. ... that's been another story.

Retention has been our biggest problem. Whatever the reasons for their departures, Cobbs (homesick/PT?), Joseph (repeated off-court issues) and White (see Joseph) are proving they're high-major talents. And Paul Carter (family reasons?) was a solid recruit, too.
 

SelectionSunday said:
Back to the original topic. I'm not so concerned with Tubby's recruiting. Seems to me he has an eye for talent, and getting them here. Keeping them on campus. ... that's been another story.

Retention has been our biggest problem. Whatever the reasons for their departures, Cobbs (homesick/PT?), Joseph (repeated off-court issues) and White (see Joseph) are proving they're high-major talents. And Paul Carter (family reasons?) was a solid recruit, too.
Click to expand...

Development of the recruited talent also-- Devron Bostick- National Junior College Player of the year- never flourished - some people say Ralph Sampson and Rodney have not reached their potential yet either.

I almost question the spring desperation moves and the bottom end of the bench like Dawson when he was here and Halvorson. Although the end of the bench has to be the toughest spot to recruit a guy for. Can't promise them playing time, just getting the chance to go against the likes of Trevor in practice. Sounds like a good deal when you are 40 and looking back on it, but if you are 18 and think you can play that doesn't seem that appealing.
 

Minnesconsin fan said:
I almost question the spring desperation moves and the bottom end of the bench like Dawson when he was here and Halvorson.
Click to expand...

Dawson and Halvorson (sic) were/are not scholarship players.

If anything, I'd be asking why there aren't more high profile "misses".

Transfers and issues are sadly the norm, it's not just here. However, the Gopher program did take in some kids with known red flags and have paid for it.
 

You must log in or register to reply here.



Top Bottom