Doogie: Tubby missing out on recruits is being underplayed by local media

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Doogie acts like he has inside knowledge when he doesn't. The things he's laid out are all conjecture. Just because you call Ryan James your friend, doesn't mean you're accurate.

Professional advice...try just try being a reporter, and all that goes with it, instead of a Tweeter who's starving for air time.
 

Yes. Maybe his radio show is slipping in ratings ....
 

leftyslefty said:
Doogie acts like he has inside knowledge when he doesn't. The things he's laid out are all conjecture. Just because you call Ryan James your friend, doesn't mean you're accurate.

Professional advice...try just try being a reporter, and all that goes with it, instead of a Tweeter who's starving for air time.
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Try being a reporter? Been making a nice living "trying" for a long time. Must do a great job fooling a lot of people.

Starving for air time? Hmmm. If anything, among all my Ch. 5 work, 1500, and the Strib, it's overkill (at least that's what my wife says).
 

How about the inside knowledge that your comment inferred? Please give us details, I'm all ears too.
 



What frustrates me is that he didn't see the potential is guys like Berggren (sp?) and Wolters. Both would upgrade this team. Also, what about Jordan Taylor? Why don't people bring him up more? He is one of the top 10 to 15 players in the nation at any position and someone dropped the ball on this one. Not sure it was Tubby and his staff, but if it is, wow...that's bad. When did Taylor commit to Sconny? Missing on a kid from your own backyard as dynamic as him is inexcusable. Trent Lockett too? When did he commit? Did Tubby miss on him too? Normally I don't dwell on missed recruits because you can't get them all, but when the list is as vast as Minnesota's, you begin to wonder.
 

Monson didn't do the ground work on Taylor and he was all but committed by the time Tubby arrived. Lockett wasn't a priority and the Gophers were out of scholarships. They chose Rodney instead of Lockett. Hindsight, 20/20, etc.
 


Yeah they missed on Jordan Taylor, but I believe Bo had the inside track all along on him.
 



Doogie said:
Fair enough. Will explore. A weighted system is still subjective. Will have to rely on those who will know who can verbalize how many choice C, D, E, and Fs Tubby ended up with because others said no.
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Many of those guys were signed because we had players unexpectedly leave. Kinda tough to recruit top-tier guys when you're scrambling at the last minute. You can partly fault him for some of the players leaving, but that has little to do with recruiting.
 

From the Barn said:
Only because I am bored.



The final tally:
Kids Tubby failed to poach from their own state/region 10
Kids who Tubby didn't poach from their own father 1
Kids who Gophers weren't actively recruiting 11
Guys who bombed out 1
Never had a chance 4
Would have been criticised for recruiting 1
Misses 3 - Jesperson, Faber, Jones

So you were saying?
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no comment duckie?
 

GophersInIowa said:
Many of those guys were signed because we had players unexpectedly leave. Kinda tough to recruit top-tier guys when you're scrambling at the last minute. You can partly fault him for some of the players leaving, but that has little to do with recruiting.
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Retaining talent is the issue, not recruiting. Hard to complain about the fall signees.
 

I think people are also frustrated because neither Buggs nor Ellenson are national 150 recruits. That doesn't bode well for the future of this program.
 



Doggie,

Where do you come up with these totally ridiculus ideas?

They typically bring in 2 to 4 players each year (excluding the late openings that have come up from transfers). They offer about 6 to 10 guys each year so that means they are going to "miss" on 6 to 8 guys each year. Also, Tubby only wants a certain kind of player, he is not interested in the one and done circus like at Kentucky. That is one of the reasons he came to a place like Minnesota. He wants to coach his players his way and enjoy this part of his career.
 

alchemy2u said:
Doggie,

Where do you come up with these totally ridiculus ideas?

They typically bring in 2 to 4 players each year (excluding the late openings that have come up from transfers). They offer about 6 to 10 guys each year so that means they are going to "miss" on 6 to 8 guys each year. Also, Tubby only wants a certain kind of player, he is not interested in the one and done circus like at Kentucky. That is one of the reasons he came to a place like Minnesota. He wants to coach his players his way and enjoy this part of his career.
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Exaclty, if Tubby is doing his job properly, he will miss on at least 6-8 kids every year...guaranteed. That's how it works. You offer 8-10 guys and bring in 2-6. Everyone misses. I cannot believe this is even being talked about. Go look at the lists of other Hall of Fame coaches...they all miss on a handful of kids every year. They have to.

While Doogs can point to guys they were beaten on by Virginia, Michigan, etc., there are nearly as many guys on the current roster (or who have departed but were recruited here) that Tubby beat out the likes of Texas, Kansas, Kentucky, Georgia Tech, Michigan State, Wisconsin, Florida, Ohio State, Arkansas, Illinois, etc.

The entire argument is stupid. Yes, he missed on some guys, but by and large, his fall recruiting has been a success. There are things to complain about with the Tubby regime, but "missing" on guys is about 167th on the Top 170 list.
 

Gold Vision said:
3/4 of that list is ridiculous, especially when you include the classes from 2008 and 2009. It's not just the loss of Mbakwe that hurt the upperclassman talent level on this team. It's the loss of White, Joseph, Cobbs, Carter, and Iverson that forced spring recruiting. Tubby has done well in fall recruiting every year. 5 late defections will kill any depth. Tubby is not blame free on those defections, but you could make a list like that for any team.
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Thank you.
It's pretty clear to me as well that the depth and talent was there for a solid NCAA run both last and this year. Defections to transfer are the problem. There was good talent and depth in that group, talent and depth that are now simply gone. So the 'reset button' was hit, at least partially (if such a thing exists), and so a modicum of additional patience is going to be needed here.

Doogie - Would you feel better if Tubby recruited a bunch more names off your list (which FTB largely debunked on you), and then lost THEM to transfer? Not to mention the fact that you can't have ALL of those players every year, the roster size simply wouldn't allow it. So if I'm following you right, if we had gotten Vander Blue instead of Joe Coleman, you'd complain that Tubby missed on Coleman.
 

I do not like the way Tubby coaches but you cannot rip on his recruiting. We could have a starting lineup of Justin cobbs, Devoe Joseph, Royce White, Trevor Mbwakwe, and Ralph Sampson, with Rodney, Austin, Andre, Walker, Eliason, Chip on the bench. That is a pretty *&^!#*&^!#*&^!#*&^!#ing good lineup. Rip on his coaching and handling of players but not his recruiting

** Post 420 brrrra http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wJ0oFeXmUIY&feature=related
 


Gopher Bandanna Guy said:
Thank you.
It's pretty clear to me as well that the depth and talent was there for a solid NCAA run both last and this year. Defections to transfer are the problem. There was good talent and depth in that group, talent and depth that are now simply gone. So the 'reset button' was hit, at least partially (if such a thing exists), and so a modicum of additional patience is going to be needed here.

Doogie - Would you feel better if Tubby recruited a bunch more names off your list (which FTB largely debunked on you), and then lost THEM to transfer? Not to mention the fact that you can't have ALL of those players every year, the roster size simply wouldn't allow it. So if I'm following you right, if we had gotten Vander Blue instead of Joe Coleman, you'd complain that Tubby missed on Coleman.
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And the defections have nothing to do with Tubby?
 

Wow...crowded bench. You think at least 1 of these guy would transfer due to playing time.

Doogie said:
2012

Marcus Paige – North Carolina

Adam Woodbury – Iowa

AJ Hammons – Purdue

Nick Banyard – New Mexico

Steve Taylor – Marquette

Cameron Biedscheid – Notre Dame



2011

Naadir Tharpe – Kansas

Josh Oglesby – Iowa

Paul Jesperson – Virginia

Travis Trice – Michigan State

TaShawn Thomas – Houston

Trey Burke – Michigan

Ryan Boatright – UCONN

Malcolm Brogdon - Virginia


2010

Corey Joseph – Texas

Vander Blue – Marquette

Trevor Releford – Alabama

Rickey Kreklow – Missouri

Zach McCabe – Iowa

Tim Hardaway – Michigan

Alex Kirk – New Mexico

Ray McCallum – Detroit

Harrison Barnes – North Carolina



2009

Darius Smith – UCONN then juco

Chris Colvin – Iowa State then juco

Eric Bledsoe – Kentucky

Glen Rice – Georgia Tech

Sam Dower – Gonzaga

Andrew Fitzgerald – Oklahoma

Daniel Miller – Georgia Tech

Torin Walker – Oklahoma State

Dan Jennings – West Virginia


2008

Verdell Jones III – Indiana

Krys Faber - DePaul
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BleedGopher said:
Doogie was just on 1500AM and was very critical of Tubby's recruiting at Minnesota. He said there is a list of at least 20-25 recruits that Tubby has "swung and missed on" and cited Alex Kirk at New Mexico and Tim Hardaway Jr. as examples of guys that Tubby has offered but didn't land.

Doogie said that the local media has underplayed this.

Go Gophers!!
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Guys like Hardaway had no interest in MN. What was he supported to put a gun to their heads and make them come here??
 

Jordan Taylor was a good prospect out of high school, but no where near the player he is now. Pretty sure Wisconsin was the only high major team to offer and he wasn't in anyone's top 100 list (might be wrong about that though). With Nolen on the team he wasn't a huge need at the time. Obviously in hindsight it sucks that we didn't get him, but that's the way it goes sometimes.
 

GophersOnTheRise said:
Jordan Taylor was a good prospect out of high school, but no where near the player he is now. Pretty sure Wisconsin was the only high major team to offer and he wasn't in anyone's top 100 list (might be wrong about that though). With Nolen on the team he wasn't a huge need at the time. Obviously in hindsight it sucks that we didn't get him, but that's the way it goes sometimes.
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He was in Nolan's class and committed to Wisconsin over a year before Tubby got here.
 

Comparing Austin Hollins to Hardaway Jr.? Gimme a freaking break. You think that is an even trade?
 


zambam said:
He was in Nolan's class.
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This is not true. Nolan was recruiting class of 2007. Taylor was recruiting class of 2008.

zambam said:
He committed to Wisconsin over a year before Tubby got here.
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This is not true, either. Taylor committed in November, 2006. Tubby was hired four months later in March, 2007. But, Taylor was not going to reconsider, he was firm to Bucky.
 

zambam said:
He was in Nolan's class and committed to Wisconsin over a year before Tubby got here.
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Nolen is a year older than Taylor and I didn't say anything about Tubby missing on him or anything. My point was it wasn't a colossal failure at the time that he didn't commit to the Gophers seeing as he wasn't a top 5 point guard at the time. He worked hard and improved his game. Hindsight is 20/20.
 

I think Tubby is definitely rippable on some things, because like I said, I don't think he has lived up to the expectations that most of us had. That said, Doogie's article really is a failed grasp at straws in my opinion. The article just doesn't make sense. Mathematically, you will absolutely lose out on a large number of recruits and often those recruits will choose programs that are worse or equal to your school. It's simply the nature of college basketball recruiting. He talks about Tubby losing recruits to Michigan like it's a sign of huge trouble. A lot of very good programs who pay their coaches more than the U have lost recruits to schools like Michigan and Virginia. It's simply the nature of the game.

The fact that Tubby hasn't lived up to some expectations doesn't make the argument in the article anymore valid. I could say "The Twins stunk this year and Michael Cuddyer was too injury prone". If someone argued with me saying "Cuddy wasn't hurt much this year", I couldn't fall back on "Well, the Twins stunk, are you saying you expected them to finish worse than the Royals?". Obviously that's illogical.

Just because your opinion might be valid (Tubby hasn't lived up to expectations) doesn't make your rationale (because he missed on too many recruits) credible.

I am also not trying to rip on Doogie too much. I appreciate that he comes here and talks (I almost said "comes on the hole", but I think that needed rewording) and I do like his articles, especially the articles with interviews. However, it's really unprofessional to write an article based upon your thinking that Tubby has missed on alarmingly high number of recruits, and then to be called on it with evidence and then to say that you'll have to defer to someone else about the info. If you're going to put your name on an article, you should really do the requisite amount of research for that article. If you swing and miss (as I believe you did here), it sort of discredits you. You're the journalist, it's your responsibility to make sure what you are saying makes sense.
 


You guys are missing the elephant in the room: It's Tubby's fault that we only have 13 scholarships and 200 minutes per game to offer. Kudos to Doogie for opening our eyes.
 

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