Doogie: Tubby missing out on recruits is being underplayed by local media

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Bob Loblaw has covered most of my thoughts on this topic, quite eloquently, but I do have a couple things to add.

Doogie, your obsession with "the Gophers wanted Kirk over Eliason" and "how are we missing out on recruits to New Mexico" seems destined to join your infamous "Tubby's Big Ten record against everyone except Iowa" line if you continue to push it (in this thread alone you've referenced losing Kirk four separate times).

Not only did Tubby Smith lose out on Kirk, but so did Sean Miller (Arizona), Mike Montgomery (Cal), and Gary Williams (Maryland). Kirk stayed at home to play for the state's flagship program, just as Joel Pryzbilla, Rick Rickert, Kris Humphries, Royce White to name a few have over the years for Minnesota when more prestigious programs have come calling. If you point out that the Gophers wanted Kirk more than Eliason as some point that their evaluation of talent is off (since Kirk is struggling), let's list the other one million examples in college basketball where a first choice recruit was not as good as a player overlooked/second choice.
http://scouthoops.scout.com/a.z?s=75&p=8&c=1&nid=3926999

Also, a pet peeve-I could care less if Ryan James is a friend of yours or not. Perhaps it's just acknowledging that he's a buddy of yours, but it gives an air of "I have connections that you don't have and could never hope to have" plus I don't find it professionally relevant-whether James is a friend or not doesn't change the veracity of his report. Sid's been mocked for years for his "close personal friends", I would advise you steer clear of that pathway, whether talking about James, Reusse, Barreiro, etc. It's not just something I'm picking on you about either Doogie-whether it's the PTI guys, NFL pre-game show guys, whoever, I find it unprofessional name-dropping that reveals insecurity.
 

Could it be that people in this business are just insecure? I mean, in the industry I work in my colleagues and those who work for other employers are all judged on their ability to do the job. In sports "reporting" it seems like it's a little cult for sports-obsessed guys who feel the need to defend each other and pump up their abilities to a humorous or even sad level. The fact of the matter is: anyone who closely follows Gopher Basketball is just as able to do your job as you are. There's no eloquence to the writing of most sports reporters, just a 10th grade English class level of grammar and punctuation. The sooner you can realize that you're sitting at press conferences and then regurgitating what was said because most of us are too busy or don't care enough to do so the sooner you can find comfort and closure in your career. It doesn't make you Nostradamus, and you guys certainly aren't infallible because you're a sidekick on some radio show or write a column on some website for a sports radio station that literally 95%+ of the metro never goes to.

Tubby Smith, like him or not, obviously does have a skill. He's been at the pinnacle of a highly competitive, cut-throat profession. He's certainly not above criticism, but criticism for criticism's sake makes you - not him - look bad.

Just kidding, you guys are irreplaceable! ;)
 


minngg said:
It's Tubby's job to know how they will turn out, not what they are at time of recruitment.
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Are you serious?! Unless you are being sarcastic, this is one of the more puzzling quotes I have seen on this board, and that is saying something. It is not Tubby's, or any other coach's, job to know how any recruit will turn out. It is Tubby's job to recruit and sign the best players that he possibly can who will fit his system and give us the best chance to win. It is then his job to develop those players to the best of his ability so that they reach their potential, so that our team can in turn reach its potential...period. No coach can know how any recruit will turn out. They are not fortune tellers or prophets, they are coaches.
 

panndder said:
Could it be that people in this business are just insecure? I mean, in the industry I work in my colleagues and those who work for other employers are all judged on their ability to do the job. In sports "reporting" it seems like it's a little cult for sports-obsessed guys who feel the need to defend each other and pump up their abilities to a humorous or even sad level. The fact of the matter is: anyone who closely follows Gopher Basketball is just as able to do your job as you are. There's no eloquence to the writing of most sports reporters, just a 10th grade English class level of grammar and punctuation. The sooner you can realize that you're sitting at press conferences and then regurgitating what was said because most of us are too busy or don't care enough to do so the sooner you can find comfort and closure in your career. It doesn't make you Nostradamus, and you guys certainly aren't infallible because you're a sidekick on some radio show or write a column on some website for a sports radio station that literally 95%+ of the metro never goes to.

Tubby Smith, like him or not, obviously does have a skill. He's been at the pinnacle of a highly competitive, cut-throat profession. He's certainly not above criticism, but criticism for criticism's sake makes you - not him - look bad.

Just kidding, you guys are irreplaceable! ;)
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I guarantee you wouldn't be able to write a professional sports game story utilizing the inverted pyramid scheme of writing while staying within the AP Sports Writing Guidelines. Sports writing takes talent and dedication. Don't dismiss another man't profession. It's absolutely uncalled for.
 


Is Doogie aware that you can't have 40 players on the team?
 

BigGopherFan said:
I guarantee you wouldn't be able to write a professional sports game story utilizing the inverted pyramid scheme of writing while staying within the AP Sports Writing Guidelines. Sports writing takes talent and dedication. Don't dismiss another man't profession. It's absolutely uncalled for.
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Well, if you can guarantee it who am I to argue?
 

jamalo said:
And the defections have nothing to do with Tubby?
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That's the point. Doogie's complaint is about missing on a number of recruits. The defections are much more reasonable criticism of Tubby to discuss. Should Tubby have known some of these kids were fragile/headcases? Maybe/Probably? I don't have the answer. But I'd argue it's hard to know how some kids are going to respond when away from home for the first time and put under the pressure of performing for power conference basketball team.
Point is, recruiting talent isn't the significant problem here.
 




bemidjigopher said:
Taylor was 08, Nolan was 07
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Taylor may have been in the class of 08 but he committed to Wisconsin in 06 a year before Tubby even got here. You don't commit to a school two years before you graduate unless you really want to go there.
 

you know it's not like Hollins is chop liver, he's improved alot since last year and is only sophmore. Alot of these guys are freshmen and sophmores, they'll take their lumps at times this year, but next year and in two years we should have a good team. As for recruiting top 150 players, were not going to always get those types. We recruited REIII, Devoe, White, Williams, Mbakwe, Dre Hollins and Coleman and Mo in Tubby's tenure. But the rest of the recruits have to be role players, guys who can play defense and have a specific skill, Buggs is an athletic wing, Ellenson is a shooter, they'll fit in somewhere
 

bemidjigopher said:
you know it's not like Hollins is chop liver, he's improved alot since last year and is only sophmore. Alot of these guys are freshmen and sophmores, they'll take their lumps at times this year, but next year and in two years we should have a good team. As for recruiting top 150 players, were not going to always get those types. We recruited REIII, Devoe, White, Williams, Mbakwe, Dre Hollins and Coleman and Mo in Tubby's tenure. But the rest of the recruits have to be role players, guys who can play defense and have a specific skill, Buggs is an athletic wing, Ellenson is a shooter, they'll fit in somewhere
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Buggs is 6'8" and plays the 4, and is a good shooter for a 4. Ellenson is an athletic wing that can shoot from what I understand. I get what you're saying, just thought I'd say what the prevailing opinion of those 2 is.
 

hendo59 said:
Are you serious?! Unless you are being sarcastic, this is one of the more puzzling quotes I have seen on this board, and that is saying something. It is not Tubby's, or any other coach's, job to know how any recruit will turn out. It is Tubby's job to recruit and sign the best players that he possibly can who will fit his system and give us the best chance to win. It is then his job to develop those players to the best of his ability so that they reach their potential, so that our team can in turn reach its potential...period. No coach can know how any recruit will turn out. They are not fortune tellers or prophets, they are coaches.
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It is a coaches job to see the ceiling a certain player has. It's all semantics, but you essentially just said the same thing.
 




Why did Tubby sign two 3 star (non top 150) role players in Buggs and Ellenson when this program desperately needs impact players? I don't think we can afford to have a dud recruiting class. Who is on the radar for future classes besides Tyus, who probably isn't coming here.
 

BigGopherFan said:
Why did Tubby sign two 3 star (non top 150) role players in Buggs and Ellenson when this program desperately needs impact players? I don't think we can afford to have a dud recruiting class. Who is on the radar for future classes besides Tyus, who probably isn't coming here.
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Probably because Tubby really liked them. How do you know they aren't going to be impact players? Because the interwebz tells you so? Personally, I'll take the word of an experienced coach over the internet. Or maybe, Tubby thinks he already has impact players on the roster for next year?
 

The gophers have some good players on the radar for 2013. Goodluck Okonoboh, 6'9" forward from Boston. 4star recruit on espn has offers from Mizzou, Gonzaga and Syracuse. Kyle Washington, former Benilde player is also that class. Also inthat class are guards Matt Thomas from Onalaska, WI and Juwan Parker from Tulsa, Ok. The 2014 class in this state is pretty dep with the likes Tyrus Jones, Rashad Vaughn, Ian Thiessan rom Osseo and Reid Travis from DeLasalle. If we miss out on the one and done Tyrus Jones, Eden Prairie has a good PG in Andre Wallace. We should still recruit him because I think Jones is one and done and were going to need a PG whether we land a Jones or not for the future.
 

zambam said:
Probably because Tubby really liked them. How do you know they aren't going to be impact players? Because the interwebz tells you so? Personally, I'll take the word of an experienced coach over the internet. Or maybe, Tubby thinks he already has impact players on the roster for next year?
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My guess would be most coaches sign the best players that will agree to go there. If you know what I mean.
 

station19 said:
My guess would be most coaches sign the best players that will agree to go there. If you know what I mean.
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Agreed, but I'm just saying how are we to know they won't be impact players? Hasn't one of the recruiting analysts said Tubby does a great job of finding under the radar guys, like Dre, and said he did the same with Buggs?
 

zambam said:
Doogie I think your expectations for Tubby's recruiting are way too high. You list 5-star recruits as if simply being Tubby should get those guys to want to come to a place that has never been able to get them. A step-up in recruiting from the Monson years has already happened. You were clearly expecting a jump-up in recruiting, not a step-up.
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If Tubby can't get these guys, we need a new coach then.
 


Tubby was brought in on name alone and he hasn't produced. I personally will cut him some slack with injuries, but the transfers are more on him. You can't afford to miss in basketball recruiting. He went 20 years straight of going to the NCAA tournament and now can't get back. Seems to me that he recruits guys that don't fit what he wants to do. I don't think he is coaching very well to the talent he has. Mbakwe being hurt forced his hand to play a style that fits the talent more.
 

zambam said:
Agreed, but I'm just saying how are we to know they won't be impact players? Hasn't one of the recruiting analysts said Tubby does a great job of finding under the radar guys, like Dre, and said he did the same with Buggs?
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Dre Hollins rocketed into the top 100 and was 4 stars on ESPN and scout (rivals had him 3 stars). I think he will be very good someday. You can't say the same for Buggs and Ellenson. Both are just basic 3 star prospects with less superstar potential. There are plenty of 3 star players that become dynamic college players, but there are exponentially more from the 4 and 5 star range.
 

BigGopherFan said:
Dre Hollins rocketed into the top 100 and was 4 stars on ESPN and scout (rivals had him 3 stars). I think he will be very good someday. You can't say the same for Buggs and Ellenson. Both are just basic 3 star prospects with less superstar potential. There are plenty of 3 star players that become dynamic college players, but there are exponentially more from the 4 and 5 star range.
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Rivals is planning to see Buggs this winter. Didn't see him enough last summer to confidently put him in the top 150. It's possible he'll be in there in the next ranking update. Time will tell.
 

GophersOnTheRise said:
Rivals is planning to see Buggs this winter. Didn't see him enough last summer to confidently put him in the top 150. It's possible he'll be in there in the next ranking update. Time will tell.
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Someone posted about his play at Hargrave saying he could be putting up better numbers but there's not a lot of touches to go around on that team and he's pretty unselfish. That could hurt a ranking.
 

zambam said:
Someone posted about his play at Hargrave saying he could be putting up better numbers but there's not a lot of touches to go around on that team and he's pretty unselfish. That could hurt a ranking.
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To an extent, maybe. But they don't look at a stat sheet to determine a ranking. They fully understand that when you're on a stacked team you aren't going to put up the same type of numbers as you would if you were the main option. I'm sure they will focus on his talent rather than strictly his production.
 

Doogie

Making a nice living.....

Tyrell Johnson makes a nice living as a safety and Johnny Flynn as a point guard and they both suck.....

This take was terrible... can't win them all.. Evryone misses on recruiting high school players just like every team in the NFL has flops drafted in the first round...
 

GophersOnTheRise said:
To an extent, maybe. But they don't look at a stat sheet to determine a ranking. They fully understand that when you're on a stacked team you aren't going to put up the same type of numbers as you would if you were the main option. I'm sure they will focus on his talent rather than strictly his production.
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What I mean is if he passes it TOO much, they won't have as much material to analyze him on.
 

Until the gophers win a tourney game, Tubby may not be able to recruit any top 100 type players outside of Minnesota. Last years horrible season, whether you give blame to Tubby or to circumstances, did tarnish his image.

Here is to making this the year for a tourney win!!
 

Doogie said:
Try being a reporter? Been making a nice living "trying" for a long time. Must do a great job fooling a lot of people.

Starving for air time? Hmmm. If anything, among all my Ch. 5 work, 1500, and the Strib, it's overkill (at least that's what my wife says).
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You realize acting like a 3 year old isn't going to convince anyone of anything right?


Here is my question:

The OP in the thread said you claimed the local media overlooked this fact.
Assuming that is what you actually claimed, and considering you claim to be a member of the media, why have you been underplaying it for so long?


If you want to be taken seriously as a reporter you should report as if you are a reporter, not some blogging fan.
 

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