All Things RB Jeffrey Jones Thread

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husker70 said:
I don't think this is a Minnesota issue as far as qualifying, rather the NCAA Clearing House. This is their formula, of grade point/ ACT ratio. It was thought at one time that the ACT, SAT were better predictors of academic success than grade point average. But in what only the NCAA could deem their wisdom, they came up with the formula to counter balance a ACT score with your grade point average. They know better. These are the same guys who make rulings on medical waivers, 6th year eligibility. Just think of some bureaucrat in cube somewhere, with no sense of urgency, scanning, printing, flipping papers, stamping this and stapling that. All the time student/athletes wait. At one time we were told waiting is part of your total education. We are waiting first for Mr. Jones to complete summer school, hopefully the final transcript can be sent electronically rather than by mail. Then the formula wizards will get to work, maybe just maybe the NCAA Clearinghouse will render there answer by the end of July. Till they announce his status the rest is pure speculation. I will say this Jeff is doing everything he can to change the input.
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Ummm....

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/answer-sheet/wp/2014/02/21/a-telling-study-about-act-sat-scores/
 


diehard said:
JJ isn't going to end up in Madison, so what's your point?
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Uhh, what? Oh right, you're one of those few people on here that still think I'm a Badger fan. Because you have nothing to actually add to this discussion I won't waste anymore time.
 

maroonedinCA said:
Uhh, what? Oh right, you're one of those few people on here that still think I'm a Badger fan. Because you have nothing to actually add to this discussion I won't waste anymore time.
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We can all afford a little time wasting. We don't have football or basketball to talk about. I vote to continue the fight.
 

The NCAA is an easy target right now, I understand that, but it's not fair to put this situation at the feet of the NCAA. The NCAA's very minimal standards for eligibility are more than fair, a lot of folks would say way too much so. These situations fall on the kids, not the NCAA.
 




husker70 said:
I don't think this is a Minnesota issue as far as qualifying, rather the NCAA Clearing House. This is their formula, of grade point/ ACT ratio. It was thought at one time that the ACT, SAT were better predictors of academic success than grade point average. But in what only the NCAA could deem their wisdom, they came up with the formula to counter balance a ACT score with your grade point average. They know better. These are the same guys who make rulings on medical waivers, 6th year eligibility. Just think of some bureaucrat in cube somewhere, with no sense of urgency, scanning, printing, flipping papers, stamping this and stapling that. All the time student/athletes wait. At one time we were told waiting is part of your total education. We are waiting first for Mr. Jones to complete summer school, hopefully the final transcript can be sent electronically rather than by mail. Then the formula wizards will get to work, maybe just maybe the NCAA Clearinghouse will render there answer by the end of July. Till they announce his status the rest is pure speculation. I will say this Jeff is doing everything he can to change the input.
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And those academic standards are extremely low, the NCAA isn't prefect but you can't blame his academic situation on the NCAA.
 

SelectionSunday said:
The NCAA is an easy target right now, I understand that, but it's not fair to put this situation at the feet of the NCAA. The NCAA's very minimal standards for eligibility are more than fair, a lot of folks would say way too much so. These situations fall on the kids, not the NCAA.
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Exactly. In all honesty, Jeff Jones has no business attending an academic institution like the U of M (as is the case with many of these players). If he wasn't a good football player communnity college would be his only option. This is all on Jeff Jones and no one else.
 



Not only does this rest on Jeff Jones but his coaches, parents and school should have been doing more to impress upon him how important his grades are and were. He didn't need to be an (A) student. I have seen coaches sit players because of grades and not because of school policy but to drive home the point that grades and classes need to be taken seriously.
 

SelectionSunday said:
The NCAA is an easy target right now, I understand that, but it's not fair to put this situation at the feet of the NCAA. The NCAA's very minimal standards for eligibility are more than fair, a lot of folks would say way too much so. These situations fall on the kids, not the NCAA.
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I agree SS. These kids are still supposed to be student-athletes, and to ask for a prospective student to him the low standards that Jones has to make is still a pretty low bar. As has been pointed out here, if he couldn't run a fast 40, his scores and grades wouldn't even get him a serious look by the U. I don't want us to be UNC allowing non-students to fake it just to play ball. This is a University before it is anything else.
 

WolfontheProwl said:
Not only does this rest on Jeff Jones but his coaches, parents and school should have been doing more to impress upon him how important his grades are and were. He didn't need to be an (A) student. I have seen coaches sit players because of grades and not because of school policy but to drive home the point that grades and classes need to be taken seriously.
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Ya, I put about half the blame on Jeff and a quarter each on his parents and coaches. Jeff should have been smart enough to make his grades his own responsibility, but it's up to his parents and coaches to instill that responsibility in him as well.
 

WolfontheProwl said:
Not only does this rest on Jeff Jones but his coaches, parents and school should have been doing more to impress upon him how important his grades are and were. He didn't need to be an (A) student. I have seen coaches sit players because of grades and not because of school policy but to drive home the point that grades and classes need to be taken seriously.
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I said pretty much the same thing when we lost Djuan Piper to academics. Didn't someone, somewhere, at some point see the Jeff was struggling in the classroom? Didn't a Mom/Dad/Teacher/Friend/Coach/Adviser/Confidant think it would have been a good idea to send Jeff a strong message that if you don't get your grades up, it doesn't matter how fast/strong/agile you are, you're flippen burgers.

Now, someone may have done that and Jeff blew them off, but as many pointed out, the bar isn't that high, if he blew you off 3 times, just do his homework for him or something.... sheesh.... KIDDING ON THE HOMEWORK PART!!!!
 



There is another possibility here - maybe he just isn't that smart. I don't say that to be mean. Just pointing out that, if Jones was a baseball player, a hockey player, or even a basketball player, he would have other options. But, if you're a gifted FB player, the current system virtually demands that you at least try to attend college until you're eligible for the NFL draft. That in turn results in athletes and colleges playing games with academics in order to get kids into school and keep them eligible - in some cases by any means necessary.

My personal opinion - if a kid wants to play FB, and is unable to do college level academic work, then admit him under a separate category. Let him play ball, and require him to take remedial work and life skills classes - even vocational classes - so if the NFL doesn't work out, he at least has a chance to be a productive member of society.
 

short ornery norwegian said:
There is another possibility here - maybe he just isn't that smart. I don't say that to be mean. Just pointing out that, if Jones was a baseball player, a hockey player, or even a basketball player, he would have other options. But, if you're a gifted FB player, the current system virtually demands that you at least try to attend college until you're eligible for the NFL draft. That in turn results in athletes and colleges playing games with academics in order to get kids into school and keep them eligible - in some cases by any means necessary.

My personal opinion - if a kid wants to play FB, and is unable to do college level academic work, then admit him under a separate category. Let him play ball, and require him to take remedial work and life skills classes - even vocational classes - so if the NFL doesn't work out, he at least has a chance to be a productive member of society.
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I don't think it's that he isn't that smart. I think there was a period in his life where he didn't give a rip about school, felt that he was entitled to do whatever he wanted, and that included blowing off school. If what has been reported is accurate, he certainly had the smarts to dig himself out of his hole, but it just might have been too late by the time he figured thing out.
 

per Shama:

Jeff Jones and those close to the Washburn all-state running back aren’t giving up on him enrolling at the University of Minnesota later this summer. His latest ACT score wasn’t high enough to meet NCAA eligibility requirements.

“They are bound and determined to get him on campus,” Washburn coach Giovan Jenkins told Sports Headliners. “They don’t want him to go to junior college.”

Jones is taking two online summer classes and will know the results by July 10. There is a possibility his grades from those classes will improve his high school GPA enough—combined with his ACT score—to meet NCAA requirements.

There are potential ways for Jones to attend Minnesota this year even if he isn’t eligible to play in games for the Gophers. Among those avenues is for Jones to be admitted by the University without a scholarship but train and practice with the team during the 2014 season.

http://shamasportsheadliners.com/

Go Gophers!!
 

Uffda, not good to start your day by seeing this on the Tweeter.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p>That was a hard pill to <a href="https://twitter.com/search?q=%24wallow&src=ctag">$wallow</a> :/</p>— Jeff Jones Jr. (@GopherBoy21) <a href="https://twitter.com/GopherBoy21/statuses/484600214456922113">July 3, 2014</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Luckily, it looks like he was referencing his lady pal...
 

Using the cheesy term "uffda" in a sentence and checking Jeff Jones twitter account at 5am. That is strike 1 and strike 2 for you good sir.
 

supadupafly said:
Using the cheesy term "uffda" in a sentence and checking Jeff Jones twitter account at 5am. That is strike 1 and strike 2 for you good sir.
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Someone who calls himself "supadupafly" probably isn't fit to call anyone else out for being "cheesy."
 

short ornery norwegian said:
There is another possibility here - maybe he just isn't that smart. I don't say that to be mean. Just pointing out that, if Jones was a baseball player, a hockey player, or even a basketball player, he would have other options. But, if you're a gifted FB player, the current system virtually demands that you at least try to attend college until you're eligible for the NFL draft. That in turn results in athletes and colleges playing games with academics in order to get kids into school and keep them eligible - in some cases by any means necessary.

My personal opinion - if a kid wants to play FB, and is unable to do college level academic work, then admit him under a separate category. Let him play ball, and require him to take remedial work and life skills classes - even vocational classes - so if the NFL doesn't work out, he at least has a chance to be a productive member of society.
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^ This.

Regardless of whether Jones was "smart enough" to have made it, the system needs to change. I personally know many kids who simply would not be able to make it into (or succeed at) a D1 college no matter how hard they tried. Some people have learning disabilities, some have a low IQ, and similar circumstances. If they were elite football players, basically someone would have to fudge for them (ie, cheat) to allow them to pursue their dream.
 

Isn't it harder to get into the U as a regular student than as a scholarship athlete? I keep seeing that Jones may qualify for the U but not as a scholarship athlete. That just seems odd to me.
 

MadtownGopher said:
Isn't it harder to get into the U as a regular student than as a scholarship athlete? I keep seeing that Jones may qualify for the U but not as a scholarship athlete. That just seems odd to me.
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I don't think the choice is between "regular student" or "scholarship athlete". I believe the actual requirements to be a U student are lower than what the NCAA requires to be able to play sports. He would still be getting in because of his football ability, not based on his academic credentials when compared to the applicant pool at large.
 

WanderingGopher said:
^ This.

Regardless of whether Jones was "smart enough" to have made it, the system needs to change. I personally know many kids who simply would not be able to make it into (or succeed at) a D1 college no matter how hard they tried. Some people have learning disabilities, some have a low IQ, and similar circumstances. If they were elite football players, basically someone would have to fudge for them (ie, cheat) to allow them to pursue their dream.
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I disagree. The University is supposed to be an elite institution of higher education. There are some people who are unable to handle the rigor of that kind of institution (some for factors in their control, some for factors out of their control, and probably most for a combination of the two). If a highly rated athlete cannot meet even the watered down requirements that universities are setting for the blue chip athletes, then a four year university is not for them. A university can't be all things to all people, and it shouldn't be forced to create new programs just because of how the NFL sets its own admission requirements. And, maybe, if universities really got serious about not letting those kind of athletes fudge their way in, that would force the NFL to either start letting them play right out of high school or invest in an actual developmental league.
 

WanderingGopher said:
^ This.

Regardless of whether Jones was "smart enough" to have made it, the system needs to change. I personally know many kids who simply would not be able to make it into (or succeed at) a D1 college no matter how hard they tried. Some people have learning disabilities, some have a low IQ, and similar circumstances. If they were elite football players, basically someone would have to fudge for them (ie, cheat) to allow them to pursue their dream.
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The college admission system does not need to change. No way. It's already way too easy to get into college, which is why we have college graduates who can't find work.

If he wants to get to the NFL, JUCO to university is still an option. And if he can't make the grades at JUCO, then he probably needs to be working a blue collar job.
 

short ornery norwegian said:
There is another possibility here - maybe he just isn't that smart. I don't say that to be mean. Just pointing out that, if Jones was a baseball player, a hockey player, or even a basketball player, he would have other options. But, if you're a gifted FB player, the current system virtually demands that you at least try to attend college until you're eligible for the NFL draft. That in turn results in athletes and colleges playing games with academics in order to get kids into school and keep them eligible - in some cases by any means necessary. My personal opinion - if a kid wants to play FB, and is unable to do college level academic work, then admit him under a separate category. Let him play ball, and require him to take remedial work and life skills classes - even vocational classes - so if the NFL doesn't work out, he at least has a chance to be a productive member of society.
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I was talking to a couple teachers last night that worked with Jeff and none of this was because Jeff "isn't that smart." He coasted through junior high and didn't care about his academics until after his sophomore year when he started to be recruited heavily. IMO, the admin/teachers at Washburn and Jeff's parents failed him more than anyone. NCAA regulations aren't that strict and high school isn't that difficult as long as a kid stays on top of the work. Playing football is NOT a right, I don't care how good a kid is. The NFL should NOT create a league where elite athletes can decide their high school education does not matter. The focus needs to be hitting the books instead of looking for another avenue to get around the education.
 

Winasota Gopher said:
I said pretty much the same thing when we lost Djuan Piper to academics. Didn't someone, somewhere, at some point see the Jeff was struggling in the classroom? Didn't a Mom/Dad/Teacher/Friend/Coach/Adviser/Confidant think it would have been a good idea to send Jeff a strong message that if you don't get your grades up, it doesn't matter how fast/strong/agile you are, you're flippen burgers.

Now, someone may have done that and Jeff blew them off, but as many pointed out, the bar isn't that high, if he blew you off 3 times, just do his homework for him or something.... sheesh.... KIDDING ON THE HOMEWORK PART!!!!
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The Piper comparison is apt. The basketball staff didn't wage a campaign to make him eligible at all costs like some schools might have. You want kids in your program who, when you dump them in the deep end of the pool, can swim by themselves.
 

short ornery norwegian said:
There is another possibility here - maybe he just isn't that smart. I don't say that to be mean. Just pointing out that, if Jones was a baseball player, a hockey player, or even a basketball player, he would have other options. But, if you're a gifted FB player, the current system virtually demands that you at least try to attend college until you're eligible for the NFL draft. That in turn results in athletes and colleges playing games with academics in order to get kids into school and keep them eligible - in some cases by any means necessary.

My personal opinion - if a kid wants to play FB, and is unable to do college level academic work, then admit him under a separate category. Let him play ball, and require him to take remedial work and life skills classes - even vocational classes - so if the NFL doesn't work out, he at least has a chance to be a productive member of society.
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This kind of opened my eyes. I've never thought of it that way. I think a couple others have quoted you shaking the higher education stick, and I agree with them as well.

it's a complicated matter because we are trying to meld to things here and it breaks down to this.

Should you have to have a College Accepted Level IQ/Test Scores/GPA to get into the NFL? Right now the NFL is basically saying yes. Is that fair? Is it wrong? I'm conflicted on that.

Almost every other profession has a way to get around the requirements. I worked at a place that "required an MBA" to get a particular position, but that position's boss didn't have an MBA... How did that happen? The guy was able to showcase his skills/talents/smarts in another form or fashion making the MBA a non factor.

That situation isn't possible in the NFL today. A kid has an absurdly difficult road to travel to make it into the NFL without being accepted to a college first. I'm sure it has happened somewhere, somehow, and maybe we are ok with that. From a "fairness" perspective, what about the NFL would require college able intellect to be on its job description? Its a great way to thin the heard and mitigate risk I'll tell you that, but many other professions don't get off that easily thanks to the ADA and other job qualification guidelines.

The part about your personal opinion is interesting as well... Its better than a minor league system developed by the NFL because we would still be improving the individual in the instance where pro ball doesn't work out for them. Where as an NFL developed league would leave a lot of "failures" at an even bigger deficit when they enter the work force.
 

lakesgopher said:
I was talking to a couple teachers last night that worked with Jeff and none of this was because Jeff "isn't that smart." He coasted through junior high and didn't care about his academics until after his sophomore year when he started to be recruited heavily. IMO, the admin/teachers at Washburn and Jeff's parents failed him more than anyone. NCAA regulations aren't that strict and high school isn't that difficult as long as a kid stays on top of the work. Playing football is NOT a right, I don't care how good a kid is. The NFL should NOT create a league where elite athletes can decide their high school education does not matter. The focus needs to be hitting the books instead of looking for another avenue to get around the education.
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This is what I've heard. There doesn't seem to be much talk of the prep school option but Jeff Jones seems to be the type of kid that would benefit from an extra year of rigorous instruction. Everyone that knows him points back to grades 7-10 and not caring at that time as reasons for his predicament.
 

afurry91 said:
The college admission system does not need to change. No way. It's already way too easy to get into college, which is why we have college graduates who can't find work.

If he wants to get to the NFL, JUCO to university is still an option. And if he can't make the grades at JUCO, then he probably needs to be working a blue collar job.
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It's because there is a lack of jobs. Don't blame admissions standards. That's not even close to being right.
 

Winasota Gopher said:
This kind of opened my eyes. I've never thought of it that way. I think a couple others have quoted you shaking the higher education stick, and I agree with them as well.

it's a complicated matter because we are trying to meld to things here and it breaks down to this.

Should you have to have a College Accepted Level IQ/Test Scores/GPA to get into the NFL? Right now the NFL is basically saying yes. Is that fair? Is it wrong? I'm conflicted on that.

Almost every other profession has a way to get around the requirements. I worked at a place that "required an MBA" to get a particular position, but that position's boss didn't have an MBA... How did that happen? The guy was able to showcase his skills/talents/smarts in another form or fashion making the MBA a non factor.

That situation isn't possible in the NFL today. A kid has an absurdly difficult road to travel to make it into the NFL without being accepted to a college first. I'm sure it has happened somewhere, somehow, and maybe we are ok with that. From a "fairness" perspective, what about the NFL would require college able intellect to be on its job description? Its a great way to thin the heard and mitigate risk I'll tell you that, but many other professions don't get off that easily thanks to the ADA and other job qualification guidelines.

The part about your personal opinion is interesting as well... Its better than a minor league system developed by the NFL because we would still be improving the individual in the instance where pro ball doesn't work out for them. Where as an NFL developed league would leave a lot of "failures" at an even bigger deficit when they enter the work force.
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The NFL could care less about the education level of the players in the league, you can see that by the number of guys that get arrested every year that we are not dealing with the cream of the crop in terms of intelligence with a lot of these guys. What the NFL is concerned about it that an 18 year old kid is not physically ready to compete with grown men in a violent game.

At some point maybe the NFL needs to come up with some sort of D league but I would guess they don't see it as enough of an issue to spend the kind of money and resources it would take to get it done. The requirements for guys to get admitted to college are not that high, in the end it comes down to personal responsibility on the part of the athlete, their family, and the school system to make sure they are not letting elite athletes skate by academically because they want them on the field.
 

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