All Things 2024 Minnesota Vikings Off-Season Thread

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JimmyJamesMD said:
That'd take some guts by the other teams GM to trade good assets for Fields
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I would be flat out shocked if they sniffed anything higher than one 3rd round pick, it's more like a 4th.

With Fields, people forget that you're not just trading for the player; you're getting a guy on basically a 1-year deal. Who gives up assets for a player on a 1-year deal? After the 2024 season, you're either picking up his 5th year option or signing him to a multi-year deal for big bucks.

I'm sure the "worldwide leader" is saying he's worth high draft picks but nobody in their right mind is doing that.
 

Gopher_In_NYC said:
Maybe Joe Pohlad’s will swing a trade for him as our 4th OF/Pinch Runner.

I’ve never seen a head explode and would pay $20 for the privilege on live stream.
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Bijan would be a good target for the Pohlads being on a Rookie deal. 🙂

If you need a good head explosion, watch "Scanners". Michael Ironside had a very bad day.
 

Slim Tubby said:
Riddick is one of the best...huge fan. Seems like way too much for me. PIT is also a likely suitor but put me in the camp that thinks Art Smith is a clown.
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Gopher_In_NYC said:
I think Art is another guy, whose a good coordinator, and doesn’t have the HC gene, aka The Charlie Weiss Theorem.
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Art Smith is a brilliant offensive coach. What he managed to do in Tennessee with Tannehill and Henry was pretty impressive. Smith will be successful in Pittsburgh, I would bet money on it. Some guys are just plain better at Coordinators than at HC.
 

Gopher_In_NYC said:
From the aforementioned Athletic article regarding said production drop off by age. Research by PFF (link included) -

Hunter will turn 30 in October. A couple of years ago, Pro Football Focus’s Timo Riske studied how productivity declines over time at different positions. He found that edge rushers tend to fall off once they reach 30. Exceptions happen. Los Angeles Chargers pass rusher Khalil Mack tallied the seventh most pressures in the NFL in 2023 at 32 years old, and Baltimore Ravens pass rusher Jadaveon Clowney amassed the 12th most pressures in the NFL in 2023 at 30 years old.

General manager Kwesi Adofo-Mensah has cited age curves in the past. He is programmed to consider historical data.
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I think you could say 30 is the drop off at really position that requires speed (WR, DB, DE, RB etc.). QB and interior lineman are really the only positions that this doesn't apply to (maybe OTs too)
 

DinkyTownIsDead said:
I think you could say 30 is the drop off at really position that requires speed (WR, DB, DE, RB etc.). QB and interior lineman are really the only positions that this doesn't apply to (maybe OTs too)
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True.

These front office folks work for billionaires and are making multi-million dollar decisions, so they need a data driven strategy, to help guide them in their decision making process and not operating on a whim or letting their relationships with players or biases affect how they operate.
 


DinkyTownIsDead said:
I disagree with this take. What evidence do you have of this?
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https://deadspin.com/2023-nfl-sacks-leaders-1850875599

Here are the top 20 sack leaders from 2023. Only 3 of the 20 players are 30 or older. Hunter will turn 30 in October, playing almost his entire next contract at 30+. Are sacks the end-all-be-all stat to look at? No. But it sufficiently proves my point.

The 3 that are 30 or above:
Leonard Floyd (31)
Denico Autry (33)
Khalil Mack (32)

I like Hunter and think more than a lot of DE's, he's a complete player, playing reasonably well against the run as well. But with what you'd have to pay him at his age, it just doesn't make sense to me. Feels like a Harrison Smith situation just waiting to happen.
 

it all gets back to this:

What is the Vikings' long-term plan? Do they have a long-term plan?

the worst-case scenario is to get caught with a lot of older, higher-paid players who are declining in production. that is why the draft is so important - because it provides (in theory) a source of new talent at a lower salary. But only if you draft well. If you don't draft well, then you have to acquire talent through more expensive means - free agency and trades.

and if you don't draft well, and you make bad decisions in free agency, then you go down the shitter.

I don't think this is hyperbole - 2024 is a make-or-break year for Kwesi. if he screws the pooch, I bet even money he's gone after the season.
 

I think the worst thing they could do is sign Cousins for 2 years and draft a QB in round 1. Unless Cousins signs for significantly less than we expect, it really hinders what you can do right now. Either you're trying to win now or you're doing a short rebuild.
 

Ogee Ogilthorpe said:
I would be flat out shocked if they sniffed anything higher than one 3rd round pick, it's more like a 4th.

With Fields, people forget that you're not just trading for the player; you're getting a guy on basically a 1-year deal. Who gives up assets for a player on a 1-year deal? After the 2024 season, you're either picking up his 5th year option or signing him to a multi-year deal for big bucks.

I'm sure the "worldwide leader" is saying he's worth high draft picks but nobody in their right mind is doing that.
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Whatever they get for Fields is gravy, IMO. You took a shot, he was a bust. Move on and go get the top QB prospect and don't look back. Still holding out hope the Bears are dumb enough to keep him...
 



forever a gopher said:
https://deadspin.com/2023-nfl-sacks-leaders-1850875599

Here are the top 20 sack leaders from 2023. Only 3 of the 20 players are 30 or older. Hunter will turn 30 in October, playing almost his entire next contract at 30+. Are sacks the end-all-be-all stat to look at? No. But it sufficiently proves my point.

The 3 that are 30 or above:
Leonard Floyd (31)
Denico Autry (33)
Khalil Mack (32)

I like Hunter and think more than a lot of DE's, he's a complete player, playing reasonably well against the run as well. But with what you'd have to pay him at his age, it just doesn't make sense to me. Feels like a Harrison Smith situation just waiting to happen.
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Sacks are the most BS stat to me.

You only have to have 15-20 “lucky” (bad word, but it’s more this than not) moments in a game where you happened to wrap your arms around a QB before he could get rid of the ball.

Whoopty doo.

Did that sack actually affect the game??? The drive?? Sometimes they do, but hardly always.


I wish there was a stat like: “when we needed to come after the QB, did you actually get it done? Did they have to double team you out of fear?”

I feel like Hunter does not affect games. He just happens to get a sack now and then. It was nice to have but we may not have even needed it on that play.


But you have to pay out the a__ per sack with these guys. BS


NOW Bosa on the other hand, just from my eyeball test that dude is a man. He affects the game, run, pass, whatever. Hunter I don’t feel is like that.
 

GophersInIowa said:
I think the worst thing they could do is sign Cousins for 2 years and draft a QB in round 1. Unless Cousins signs for significantly less than we expect, it really hinders what you can do right now. Either you're trying to win now or you're doing a short rebuild.
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Quite obviously you’re trying to do what the Lions did going from 2021 to 2023. You’re trying to win a SB with Cousins.

That’s the obvious plan.


I won’t pay for tickets to some BS “rebuild”. BS. Nor should any Vikings fan.

Do the right thing Wilfs. Ignore these dipsticks. Win now
 

MplsGopher said:
Sacks are the most BS stat to me.

You only have to have 15-20 “lucky” (bad word, but it’s more this than not) moments in a game where you happened to wrap your arms around a QB before he could get rid of the ball.

Whoopty doo.

Did that sack actually affect the game??? The drive?? Sometimes they do, but hardly always.


I wish there was a stat like: “when we needed to come after the QB, did you actually get it done? Did they have to double team you out of fear?”

I feel like Hunter does not affect games. He just happens to get a sack now and then. It was nice to have but we may not have even needed it on that play.


But you have to pay out the a__ per sack with these guys. BS


NOW Bosa on the other hand, just from my eyeball test that dude is a man. He affects the game, run, pass, whatever. Hunter I don’t feel is like that.
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Players don't just "happen to get sacks" at a high level consistently like Hunter has. I agree Bosa is better than Hunter but he's better than virtually everyone else in the league.

I would argue there would be more luck involved if a player went from 5 sacks a year to 15 in one year and back down to 5 again. It's not luck to get 10-15 sacks year after year.
 

MplsGopher said:
Quite obviously you’re trying to do what the Lions did going from 2021 to 2023. You’re trying to win a SB with Cousins.

That’s the obvious plan.


I won’t pay for tickets to some BS “rebuild”. BS. Nor should any Vikings fan.

Do the right thing Wilfs. Ignore these dipsticks. Win now
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There's too many holes to fill. If you have little cap space and you use a 1st round pick on a guy that won't play for 2 years, how are you going to win right now?
 



GophersInIowa said:
Players don't just "happen to get sacks" at a high level consistently like Hunter has. I agree Bosa is better than Hunter but he's better than virtually everyone else in the league.

I would argue there would be more luck involved if a player went from 5 sacks a year to 15 in one year and back down to 5 again. It's not luck to get 10-15 sacks year after year.
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Like I said bad word.

I don’t know what the right word is. I feel like most of Hunters sacks are “useless”. They wouldn’t have caused any different outcome on the drive.

He doesn’t take over games.

So he shouldn’t be paid like he does.
 

GophersInIowa said:
There's too many holes to fill. If you have little cap space and you use a 1st round pick on a guy that won't play for 2 years, how are you going to win right now?
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No. I was not disagreeing with that part.

I’m good to keep Cousins, take the first defensive player in the 24 draft, and then get Penix or Nix at 2.
 

I've seen trading Jefferson discussed, but I wonder if they would consider trading Addison if they want to move up. I'm not convinced he's remotely at JJ's level and would far prefer to keep JJ and trade him if they decide they can't have that many resources tied up in WR/TE.
 


MplsGopher said:
Quite obviously you’re trying to do what the Lions did going from 2021 to 2023. You’re trying to win a SB with Cousins.

That’s the obvious plan.


I won’t pay for tickets to some BS “rebuild”. BS. Nor should any Vikings fan.

Do the right thing Wilfs. Ignore these dipsticks. Win now
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No the Wilfs need to tell the GM and Coach that they can do a rebuilt. A complete rebuilt need to happen and happen now. Penix or Nix both are a bust waiting to happen. The Vikings need to get into the top 3 to get there QB and no we do not need to go Defense in the 1st round. it has to be a QB and nothing else.
 

howeda7 said:
I've seen trading Jefferson discussed, but I wonder if they would consider trading Addison if they want to move up. I'm not convinced he's remotely at JJ's level and would far prefer to keep JJ and trade him if they decide they can't have that many resources tied up in WR/TE.
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I see it more like this:

You can pay Jefferson $35-million (or something in that vicinity)
or you could trade Jefferson, use that $35-million to get 2 good players to help the defense.
and then draft a WR and go with Addison and the rookie WR.

I'm not advocating for one option or the other. It's just about allocation of resources.
Of course, you have to sign and/or draft the right players to make it work. If you draft or sign Joe Palooka, it doesn't work. (if it sounds like I don't trust Kwesi, it's because I.........don't trust Kwesi.)
 




GophersInIowa said:
Players don't just "happen to get sacks" at a high level consistently like Hunter has. I agree Bosa is better than Hunter but he's better than virtually everyone else in the league.

I would argue there would be more luck involved if a player went from 5 sacks a year to 15 in one year and back down to 5 again. It's not luck to get 10-15 sacks year after year.
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You are correct sir. From the previous quoted Athletic article regarding Hunter’s production -

That brings us to his performance. Only 180 defenders have rushed the passer on 400 snaps in the last two seasons. Hunter ranks fourth among them in sacks (27), eighth in pressures (150) and 37th in pressure rate (13.2 percent), according to TruMedia. The only NFL defenders with more sacks than Hunter since his rookie season in 2015 are Aaron Donald, Mack, T.J. Watt, Myles Garrett, Chandler Jones and Cameron Jordan.
 

Ogee Ogilthorpe said:
Hunter is a tough one to me. I just have no idea. That is one major premium position, and there's few teams that have pass rush needs more than the Vikings. For Hunter, I would honestly be fine with whatever they decide to do, with a SLIGHT lean towards keeping him.
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Here’s the estimated Price Tag for Hunter. Per the Alec Lewis Athletic article -

Accounting for inflation, a deal in the ballpark of $23 million in average annual value and $50 million in fully guaranteed money makes the most sense.
 

howeda7 said:
I've seen trading Jefferson discussed, but I wonder if they would consider trading Addison if they want to move up. I'm not convinced he's remotely at JJ's level and would far prefer to keep JJ and trade him if they decide they can't have that many resources tied up in WR/TE.
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Interesting option, I’d definitely explore that.
 

short ornery norwegian said:
I see it more like this:

You can pay Jefferson $35-million (or something in that vicinity)
or you could trade Jefferson, use that $35-million to get 2 good players to help the defense.
and then draft a WR and go with Addison and the rookie WR.

I'm not advocating for one option or the other. It's just about allocation of resources.
Of course, you have to sign and/or draft the right players to make it work. If you draft or sign Joe Palooka, it doesn't work. (if it sounds like I don't trust Kwesi, it's because I.........don't trust Kwesi.)
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I'm not sure the net trade value difference between them is more than one 1st round pick. As for $$, yes JJ is expensive, but if you are saying goodbye to Cousins and Hunter and H. Smith (which they should) cap room is not that huge an issue.
 

Gopher_In_NYC said:
Here’s the estimated Price Tag for Hunter. Per the Alec Lewis Athletic article -

Accounting for inflation, a deal in the ballpark of $23 million in average annual value and $50 million in fully guaranteed money makes the most sense.
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According to a source in CHI, the Bears plan to make a big offer to Hunter and they have tons of cap space.
 


Gopher_In_NYC said:
That was one big the teams listed as a possible landing spots, along with the Cards & Jags.
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Go get 'em, Cardinals!!! EDIT: No doubt, there are few teams that need pass rush help more than Arizona. Oooffff. They had nothing last year.

I would absolutely trade Jefferson if they got a big offer. Hell yes. I don't think the offer would be as crazy as some people think though, like multiple 1st rounders or something. But you absolutely have to answer the phone
 


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