All Things 2024-25 Vikings Regular Season Thread

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howeda7 said:
I would take KOC against Payton for sure. Probably against Harbaugh too. Payton is good but not what he once was. They butchered the end of the Cincinnati game just last week.

Harbaugh is as much of a question as KOC at this point after being out of the league for a decade. If I'd put $$ on the Chargers it's because of Herbert vs Darnold. Not the coaches.
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Fair enough, but until KOC wins a Playoff game or two, I would take the proven commodities.

I don't think Harbaugh being out of the NFL for 10 years is a question mark at all. It's not like he hasn't been coaching big time football during time frame. He also got the 49ers to the NFC Championship on his first season there.
 

howeda7 said:
I would take KOC against Payton for sure. Probably against Harbaugh too. Payton is good but not what he once was. They butchered the end of the Cincinnati game just last week.

Harbaugh is as much of a question as KOC at this point after being out of the league for a decade. If I'd put $$ on the Chargers it's because of Herbert vs Darnold. Not the coaches.
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Jim Harbaugh is unquestionably a better coach than KOC by whatever metric you want to use. And despite being gone for 10 years he took a 5-12 team and went 11-6 in his first season. The Chargers also have fewer offensive weapons and Darnold put up better numbers than Herbert this season.
 


Ope3 said:
Why was last night considered "big stage" but last week, a game flexed to 3:20 PM and a national broadcast on FOX (they had no other games in that window) not deemed "big stage"?

Seemed pretty big. Tom Brady at the mic. If the Vikings had lost to the Packers the #1 Seed/NFC North Title would have both been out of reach thus last night would have probably been a Noon kickoff.

Felt like every game since Thanksgiving was a must win to have a chance at Home Field, especially the intra-Division games.

Fell 1 short. Bummer.
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I agree. GB game was a big stage and Darnold rightly got full credit from everyone. (By the way, after that game, GB media and fans were saying the same things about their QB and coach that Vikings fans are saying about ours now.)

Sunday night was another level or two up on the big stage meter compared to the GB game.
The last chapter on Darnold has not been written. He certainly has an opportunity to redeem himself by beating the Rams and playing better against the Lions the next week. Here's to hoping that happens.

PD did an assigning blame segment:
10% - Hockenson
10% - KOC
10% - interior offensive line (lions had a season high 15 pressures)
10% - Will Reichard
60% - Darnold
They said game might be a blessing in disguise as made it crystal clear we need a new interior offensive line. There is no doubt. Also saved us from making a potentially large mistake by giving big bucks to Darnold.
 
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The Why to the 🦁 Win (from Alec Lewis’ article in the Athletic today) -

Campbell, Lions defensive coordinator Aaron Glenn and other staffers reviewed the tape. They concluded that if they allowed Darnold enough time to run a play-action pass and view the field, their defense would have zero chance.

“When he can see it and has time,” Campbell said, “he’s deadly.”

The numbers support that notion. Darnold has thrown more passes this season after 2.5 seconds than any other NFL starter, according to Next Gen Stats. He has also accumulated almost 80 percent of his passing yards on those throws, which is easily the highest rate in the league.

Coach and offensive play caller Kevin O’Connell wants to push the ball vertically because that’s what suits the Vikings playmakers best. The Lions decided they didn’t want to go down that way. So, Glenn’s defense blended rush and coverage strategies. They blitzed aggressively and deployed countless stunts up front. In coverage, they double-teamed Justin Jefferson, monitored Jordan Addison with multiple defenders and took their chances in one-on-one coverage with a linebacker lined up against tight end T.J. Hockenson.

This was, for all intents and purposes, a dice roll. A bet that Darnold’s clock would speed up. A wager that relentless physicality would grind on Jefferson and Addison. A gamble that Hockenson, who has caught just eight of 28 tight-window throws over the last two seasons, couldn’t secure passes when covered closely by a defender.

“It really worked exactly like we kind of envisioned it to,” Campbell said after his team’s 31-9 triumph.

Most interesting, especially as it relates to next Monday’s wild-card game in Los Angeles, is how likely the Rams are to try to duplicate what Detroit did. The short answer? It’s not likely. Few opponents will have the gall Glenn had, and even if they do, there is no guarantee that a similar plan would work so well again.

Detroit’s defense sent more six- or seven-man pressures than any other NFL team has in a game all season. The Lions also played man coverage on 66.7 percent of Darnold’s dropbacks, the second-highest mark by a defense in a game this season.

Defend elite receivers with man coverage, and you’re playing a dangerous game. That’s why the Vikings entered Sunday night’s game as one of the NFL’s best teams against man coverage and versus the blitz.

Detroit was well prepared for this style of play. According to TruMedia, the Lions play man coverage at the highest rate in the NFL and have applied maximum pressure on the third-most snaps. Playing this way was authentic to them, whereas the Rams rank in the bottom 10 in both man coverage usage and maximum pressure frequency.

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I think we win by 10 vs. the Rams and then beat Detroit the following week; Darnold will improve/get coached up, just like he did after the Jags game and KOC will figure it out as well.
 

GopherWeatherGuy said:
The Vikings are the oldest snap adjusted team in the NFL right now. The rebuilding has to happen at some point and we only have 3 draft picks.

KOC may go 13-4 and 14-3 over two regular seasons and have zero playoff wins to show for it. When has KOC out coached anyone in a big game?

Or perhaps you're ok with not winning postseason games and watching a coach make his QB do 5 step drop backs the entire game. This includes in the red zone near the goal line and when the OL is struggling to block anyone.

The Vikings have come out ahead on so many of these one possession games, yet how many of those should have never been one possession games in the first place because the Vikings never put anyone away? Including against GB last week? KOC deserves more criticism than he gets.
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I don't think there is anything that is not correct here.
 

Ope3 said:
So all of a sudden KOC is a liability for losing at Detroit who has a record of 37-10 since November 2022 (including Playoffs) with what was undeniably a castoff QB to start the season with?

Wow tough crowd. Maybe KOC would have been better off at only over achieving a little bit against expectations and just settled for a 6 or 7 seed.

As for outcoaching anyone in Big games, I thought he did it the previous 2 weeks. Those were Big games. Had they lost either, last night would have been an exercise in Load Management.
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This isn't wrong either. A lot depends on this Rams game...
 

golf said:
I agree. GB game was a big stage and Darnold rightly got full credit from everyone. (By the way, after that game, GB media and fans were saying the same things about their QB and coach that Vikings fans are saying about ours now.)

Sunday night was another level or two up on the big stage meter compared to the GB game.
The last chapter on Darnold has not been written. He certainly has an opportunity to redeem himself by beating the Rams and playing better against the Lions the next week. Here's to hoping that happens.

PD did an assigning blame segment:
10% - Hockenson
10% - KOC
10% - interior offensive line (lions had a season high 15 pressures)
10% - Will Reichard
60% - Darnold
They said game might be a blessing in disguise as made it crystal clear we need a new interior offensive line. There is no doubt. Also saved us from making a potentially large mistake by giving big bucks to Darnold.
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Ok, thanks. Who (or what) is PD? Apologies, not familiar.

I think I would have assigned a higher percentage to the Kicker. Also I would not completely excuse the Defense. Played great in the 1st half but got rolled in the 2nd.

Also I don't know about "1 game saving the Vikings from making a potentially large mistake by giving big bucks to Darnold," again I would hope whatever the decision is it's not based on this 1 game.

I trust KOC/KAM will wait until al the data is in on Darnold after all the games are played, survey the market, evaluate the other improvements needed are needed for the roster, determine what the prognosis is for JJM and go from there. I would surely hope that was the plan before this past Sunday as well as after.

He's been successful enough to win 14 games, and only 1 or 2 were won in spite of his play. Maybe it was just a marvelous game plan by Detroit they Darnold and the coaches could not deal with. Perhaps they can come up with a counter that they think they could roll with Darnold.

They might not have been willing to give Darnold the "big bucks" (before Sunday) and instead be intent on sticking with the plan of him as a placeholder QB. Maybe that's changed with JJM's health status.

Sidenote, watching JJM hobble around the sidelines now a couple months after the 2nd procedure was a jarring image. I'm not claiming any medical knowledge or know what is recovery time is, just saying it gives me pause to think he'll be good to go for 2025 Week 1 or at minimum have his short term development stunted.
 



GopherWeatherGuy said:
Jim Harbaugh is unquestionably a better coach than KOC by whatever metric you want to use. And despite being gone for 10 years he took a 5-12 team and went 11-6 in his first season. The Chargers also have fewer offensive weapons and Darnold put up better numbers than Herbert this season.
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Inexplicable that the Raiders didn't hire Harbaugh this last offseason. Just egregious, and Harbaugh WANTED the job. Pierce is right up there with Jim Tomsula being hired by the 49ers.

This is why some organizations are destined for failure. Maybe now with Tom Brady in the building, Davis will pull his head out of his ass at least a little bit moving forward. It's a slim hope, but it's hope.
 

GopherWeatherGuy said:
Jim Harbaugh is unquestionably a better coach than KOC by whatever metric you want to use. And despite being gone for 10 years he took a 5-12 team and went 11-6 in his first season. The Chargers also have fewer offensive weapons and Darnold put up better numbers than Herbert this season.
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I have no doubt Harbaugh is better as an X's/O's coach and likely even a better motivator than KOC at this point.

However, the reasons the Vikings (I'm sure it was more than just KAM making the decision) went with KOC are also pretty clear.
 

Ogee Ogilthorpe said:
Inexplicable that the Raiders didn't hire Harbaugh this last offseason. Just egregious, and Harbaugh WANTED the job. Pierce is right up there with Jim Tomsula being hired by the 49ers.

This is why some organizations are destined for failure. Maybe now with Tom Brady in the building, Davis will pull his head out of his ass at least a little bit moving forward. It's a slim hope, but it's hope.
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I'm sure Harbaugh also wanted the Bears job. Glad they didn't get him.
 





golf said:
A very possible scenario:

Game 1 - Hurts can't play and GB beats Philly.
Game 2 - Washington wins at TB.
Game 3 - Vikings beat Rams.

The divisional round would then be:
Game 1 - GB at Detroit
Game 2 - Washington at Minnesota
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I had to look at this several times to make sure it's accurate. I think you're correct, golf.

I had been looking at ESPN's playoff bracket and assuming that the Vikings would go to Detroit, but you have shown that's not necessarily the case.
 

golf said:
I agree. GB game was a big stage and Darnold rightly got full credit from everyone. (By the way, after that game, GB media and fans were saying the same things about their QB and coach that Vikings fans are saying about ours now.)

Sunday night was another level or two up on the big stage meter compared to the GB game.
The last chapter on Darnold has not been written. He certainly has an opportunity to redeem himself by beating the Rams and playing better against the Lions the next week. Here's to hoping that happens.

PD did an assigning blame segment:
10% - Hockenson
10% - KOC
10% - interior offensive line (lions had a season high 15 pressures)
10% - Will Reichard
60% - Darnold
They said game might be a blessing in disguise as made it crystal clear we need a new interior offensive line. There is no doubt. Also saved us from making a potentially large mistake by giving big bucks to Darnold.
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Good post, golf. What website is PD?
 

Slim Tubby said:
Good post, golf. What website is PD?
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Purple Daily - a podcast on the Skor North site. i.e. Phil Mackey and Judd Zulgad. they do the "pie chart of blame" after losses. it's part of their shtick.

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I read the same article that NYC posted from the Athletic.

in the end, it comes down to matchups and schemes. Detroit came up with a defensive plan that MN was unable to defeat, or adjust to.

that does not mean the Rams could do the same thing, because the Rams have different players. But for that one night, Detroit out-coached and out-executed MN. Detroit did things that exposed weaknesses in MN's approach.

and now the question becomes - can MN adjust and/or improve its plan to fix or at least alieviate those issues?
 

RememberMurray said:
I had to look at this several times to make sure it's accurate. I think you're correct, golf.

I had been looking at ESPN's playoff bracket and assuming that the Vikings would go to Detroit, but you have shown that's not necessarily the case.
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Kudo's to "golf" but he's not the first one on this board to put forth this scenario. Go check out Post 2,496 on Sunday night by someone whose moniker might remind you of a resident from Mayberry.

:cool:
 

RememberMurray said:
I had to look at this several times to make sure it's accurate. I think you're correct, golf.

I had been looking at ESPN's playoff bracket and assuming that the Vikings would go to Detroit, but you have shown that's not necessarily the case.
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Yeah, GB - Philly goes first. If Packers pull off the upset, Viking fans will be glued to the Wash - TB game.
 

golf said:
Yeah, GB - Philly goes first. If Packers pull off the upset, Viking fans will be glued to the Wash - TB game.
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There is a part of me that really wants to see a Vikings - Lions rematch.

The Vikings have a QB situation to sort out, and there is also the question of O'Connell's upcoming extension. Those are both big, big decisions regarding the team's future.

If the Vikings play Detroit again in the playoffs, the result — win or lose — would be, let's say, highly informative. It would certainly impact both the QB and the coach going forward.
 

short ornery norwegian said:
Purple Daily - a podcast on the Skor North site. i.e. Phil Mackey and Judd Zulgad. they do the "pie chart of blame" after losses. it's part of their shtick.

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I read the same article that NYC posted from the Athletic.

in the end, it comes down to matchups and schemes. Detroit came up with a defensive plan that MN was unable to defeat, or adjust to.

that does not mean the Rams could do the same thing, because the Rams have different players. But for that one night, Detroit out-coached and out-executed MN. Detroit did things that exposed weaknesses in MN's approach.

and now the question becomes - can MN adjust and/or improve its plan to fix or at least alieviate those issues?
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Thanks, SON.
 


RememberMurray said:
There is a part of me that really wants to see a Vikings - Lions rematch.

The Vikings have a QB situation to sort out, and there is also the question of O'Connell's upcoming extension. Those are both big, big decisions regarding the team's future.

If the Vikings play Detroit again in the playoffs, the result — win or lose — would be, let's say, highly informative. It would certainly impact both the QB and the coach going forward.
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Yep, O'Connell seems to me to be a very driven person. Takes a lot of pride in his work. Has to be killing him that Flores hung in well against Johnson, but Glenn took OConnell to the woodshed.
A rematch would be very interesting indeed.
 
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Ope3 said:
I have no doubt Harbaugh is better as an X's/O's coach and likely even a better motivator than KOC at this point.

However, the reasons the Vikings (I'm sure it was more than just KAM making the decision) went with KOC are also pretty clear.
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I get that Harbaugh isn't for everyone, many highly successful coaches are not, but he has proven he is one of the best football coaches of all time. KOC is nowhere close to him and won't be for a very long time, if ever.
 


The only "upset" will be MN over LAR.
Rematch with Detroit in 2 weeks. They will have Montgomery back and that will be a + for us as Gibbs won't get as many carries and Montgomery will put the ball on the ground a couple times because he's been out for so long. No way the Detroit defensive philosophy will work a second time.
Then it will be on to either TB or Philly, which I believe Philly would win that matchup. We would be a big underdog in Philly, but I like our chances there. B Flo comes up with enough new stuff to slow down Sequon and Hurts and the offense has it's best game of the season so far.
I'd like KC to be the opponent and make it a revenge game from SB IV. Heavy favorite KC goes down as KOC keeps the KC defense off balance all night and B Flo and the the D harass Patrick into playing his worst game ever. :)
 


Daniel Jones is officially moved to the 53-man roster.

this probably does not mean that he would play this season. it is more of an administrative move - making the Vikings eligible to receive a compensatory draft pick if Jones signs with a different team during the off-season.

But......if you like speculation.....it does at least create the possibility that Jones could come out of the bullpen if Darnold is stinking up the joint against LA.
 

short ornery norwegian said:
Daniel Jones is officially moved to the 53-man roster.

this probably does not mean that he would play this season. it is more of an administrative move - making the Vikings eligible to receive a compensatory draft pick if Jones signs with a different team during the off-season.

But......if you like speculation.....it does at least create the possibility that Jones could come out of the bullpen if Darnold is stinking up the joint against LA.
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Would definitely consider him for a tush-push type of scenario.
 

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