All Things 2024-25 Vikings Regular Season Thread

[Gopher_In_NYC]

Nah. He blew it all last night. Trade him. Stock up on picks. What did the Raiders get for Gruden again? That worked out well.

Orlovsky said Darnold missed five TD passes - so let’s do a package deal and get rid of that bum as well.

 

[howeda7]

The Vikings do need to move on from a few guys. Aaron Jones. Harrison Smith. Gilmore. But the idea that they're an old team and in need of a rebuild is silly. This year WAS the rebuild. Their core players are all in their prime.

 

[Spaulding!No!]

Danny B is letting us know how the vikes lost the game.

 

[Ope3]

One game, just like one season, is not the end all to be all, but I soured quite a bit on KOC last night. If he gets throughly out-coached again by McVay next week, as badly has he did by Campbell last night and his entire career so far, I might start listening to those trade offers for him.

Promote Flores, and I think McCown could be the next OC/QB coach. Just a thought that I'm sure most of you will hate.

The Vikings are the oldest snap adjusted team in the NFL right now. The rebuilding has to happen at some point and we only have 3 draft picks.

KOC may go 13-4 and 14-3 over two regular seasons and have zero playoff wins to show for it. When has KOC out coached anyone in a big game?

Or perhaps you're ok with not winning postseason games and watching a coach make his QB do 5 step drop backs the entire game. This includes in the red zone near the goal line and when the OL is struggling to block anyone.

The Vikings have come out ahead on so many of these one possession games, yet how many of those should have never been one possession games in the first place because the Vikings never put anyone away? Including against GB last week? KOC deserves more criticism than he gets.

Going into last night's game, KOC owned a coaching reputation maybe second only to Andy Reid.

That reputation took a hit. If Vikes lose to Rams, will take another hit.

Huge challenge now for KOC. Can he regroup the team and beat the Rams? Then maybe even go into Ford Field a week later and beat the Lions?

A 14-3 record is not to be taken for granted, but the best coaches can win on the biggest stage. If lose Monday, KOC will be 0-3 on the big stage.

Could certainly be true also that we just don't have the horses. In that case, the best coaches come back with better talent. Will that happen next season. Time will tell.

So all of a sudden KOC is a liability for losing at Detroit who has a record of 37-10 since November 2022 (including Playoffs) with what was undeniably a castoff QB to start the season with?

Wow tough crowd. Maybe KOC would have been better off at only over achieving a little bit against expectations and just settled for a 6 or 7 seed.

As for outcoaching anyone in Big games, I thought he did it the previous 2 weeks. Those were Big games. Had they lost either, last night would have been an exercise in Load Management.

 

[GopherWeatherGuy]

Going into last night's game, KOC owned a coaching reputation maybe second only to Andy Reid.

That reputation took a hit. If Vikes lose to Rams, will take another hit.

Huge challenge now for KOC. Can he regroup the team and beat the Rams? Then maybe even go into Ford Field a week later and beat the Lions?

A 14-3 record is not to be taken for granted, but the best coaches can win on the biggest stage. If lose Monday, KOC will be 0-3 on the big stage.

Could certainly be true also that we just don't have the horses. In that case, the best coaches come back with better talent. Will that happen next season. Time will tell.

A coaching reputation second to only Andy Reid? Come on, he hasn't even won a playoff game yet. And the first time he was out coached by Brian Daboll, who was nearly canned this year. There are 10-15 current NFL coaches you could put ahead of KOC right now.

 

[Gopher_In_NYC]

A coaching reputation second to only Andy Reid? Come on, he hasn't even won a playoff game yet. And the first time he was out coached by Brian Daboll, who was nearly canned this year. There are 10-15 current NFL coaches you could put ahead of KOC right now.

 

[short ornery norwegian]

the phrase used by the owners was, I believe, "competitive rebuild."

meaning - overhaul the roster while remaining in contention for the playoffs - i.e. do not tear it down and start from scratch.

from that perspective, I think Kwesi & Co. have done a decent job. Like any team, there are holes to fill, but there is a pretty decent nucleus in place.

But - the next 2-3 years all hinge on the QB decision. after Sunday night, I think it's now more likely that McCarthy is the QB next year and they use all the available cap space to plug holes and continue revamping the roster.

 

[Ope3]

A coaching reputation second to only Andy Reid? Come on, he hasn't even won a playoff game yet. And the first time he was out coached by Brian Daboll, who was nearly canned this year. There are 10-15 current NFL coaches you could put ahead of KOC right now.

Sean McVay, Sean Payton, John Harbaugh, Jim Harbaugh & Mike Tomlin are 5 others (with Reid) with Head Coaching reps that aren't even in the same stratosphere as KOC (yet).

15 that are better might be stretching it. 10 (maybe 12) though is at least is realistic.

 

[GopherWeatherGuy]

I don't even know what to do with most of this but as far as the age of the roster, you need to take that with a grain of salt. The average age is heavily influenced by Harrison Smith, Gilmore, Quessenberry and the f*ng long snapper DePaola (37). A quick scan of the Vikings roster and it's hard to find an impact player over 30 (outside of those guys, and Smith/Gilmore were never going to be long term building blocks).

And as far as putting teams away, it sounds like your issue is with the Flores defense not holding up late in games, which I think most would agree with. Flores has been anointed as some kind of genius, sure-to-be HC, and at the end of the day, the Vikings are barely getting by defensively, especially late in games.

Outcoached? For the most part, winning close games is almost always coaching. A small sample size is one thing, but when it's happened as much as it has in the last 3 years, it's not by accident.

Snap adjusted means players that actually play. DePaola on ST and Quessenberry have very little affect on that. Smith/Gilmore do. There are not a lot of players over 30 on any roster. The age range is about 25-28. Everyone raved about how great the 49ers were the last few years, but they were also one of the oldest the last 2 years. How quickly it looks like age caught up to them this season.

It's hard for a defense to hold up when the offense does nothing and the defense is constantly on the field. Last night was a great example of that. The defense was great in the 1st half and was run down in the 2nd half. How many times has the Vikings been up big in the first half this season, or taken a 2 score lead into the 4th quarter, and the offense has failed to put the game away? It's not all on the defense.

The Vikings offense was good pre KOC. 3rd in yards per game in 2020, 10th in 2021. Under KOC it has gone from 6th, to 11th, to 12th this year, still good.

The defense was horrific going from 31st in yards given up prior to Flores, to 16th the last 2 seasons and #1 in takeaways this season. The points per game for both the offense and defense show nearly the same trends. So who has really been more important to this years success?

In 3 seasons KOC has shown the inability to run the ball, especially in the red zone, and bleed the clock when necessary. Their red zone TD% has gone from 10th in the year before KOC, to 8th in year 1, to 29th last season, to 19th this season.

KOC is why they play so many unnecessary close games. The Rams rank behind the Vikings in all of these numbers this season. So if KOC is a great coach, this should be an easy win, right?

 

[GopherWeatherGuy]

Sean McVay, Sean Payton, John Harbaugh, Jim Harbaugh & Mike Tomlin are 5 others (with Reid) with Head Coaching reps that aren't even in the same stratosphere as KOC (yet).

15 that are better might be stretching it. 10 (maybe 12) though is at least is realistic.

15 probably is high, but in that range. I agree with who you listed. There are several coaches who have made conference championship games or Super Bowls that I will put ahead of him until he does.

Shanahan, Campbell, McDermott, Sirianni, LaFleur, and Taylor. You could throw McCarthy in there too or even Daboll who took out KOC in the playoffs in Minnesota after a 13-3 season, but I would not take those 2 over KOC right now.

 

[Ope3]

Shanahan, Campbell, McDermott, Sirianni, LaFleur, and Taylor.

Those are all the one's I thought would get it to the 12 range, with some obvious room for some debate.

Probably have to add Dan Quinn, got to a Super Bowl with Atlanta playoff bound with Washington.

 

[Ogee Ogilthorpe]

It's hard for a defense to hold up when the offense does nothing and the defense is constantly on the field. Last night was a great example of that. The defense was great in the 1st half and was run down in the 2nd half. How many times has the Vikings been up big in the first half this season, or taken a 2 score lead into the 4th quarter, and the offense has failed to put the game away? It's not all on the defense.

I mean, they are middle of the pack in TOP in the NFL, hanging right around 15th.

In 3 seasons KOC has shown the inability to run the ball, especially in the red zone, and bleed the clock when necessary. Their red zone TD% has gone from 10th in the year before KOC, to 8th in year 1, to 29th last season, to 19th this season.

I will absolutely 100% concede this point; yes, it's maddening that they don't run the ball more and aren't more effective running it, particularly in the RZ. How much of this is personnel-based? It's hard to say.

 

[golf]

A coaching reputation second to only Andy Reid? Come on, he hasn't even won a playoff game yet. And the first time he was out coached by Brian Daboll, who was nearly canned this year. There are 10-15 current NFL coaches you could put ahead of KOC right now.

Going into last night's game, he was strong favorite to win nfl coach of the year. I was referring to that. Just my opinion, but I would say you are being prisoner of the moment.

 

[golf]

The Vikings were supposed to win 6 games this year. $72M in dead money for 2024, this was the season that the Front Office identified to finally pay the piper and take the hit on some of the previous regime's bad contracts; most notably, Cousins and Hunter coming off the books.

Yes. We are actually a year ahead of schedule so need to keep perspective here.

Even if we lose Monday, it is reasonable to give Kwesi, KOC, and the team a lot of credit for far exceeding expectations this season.

Then to be excited for next season and what will happen when our salary cap constraints are no longer an issue.

That said, beating McVay on Monday would be a significant statement going into next season that we truly aren't that far away.

 

[GopherWeatherGuy]

I mean, they are middle of the pack in TOP in the NFL, hanging right around 15th.



I will absolutely 100% concede this point; yes, it's maddening that they don't run the ball more and aren't more effective running it, particularly in the RZ. How much of this is personnel-based? It's hard to say.

I think the running game is partially personnel-based, mainly at the RB position. But even when they are being effective, they just completely go away from it.

As for TOP, it is middle of the pack, but with as many weapons as the Vikings have, they should be able to put teams away and eat a lot more clock than they have.

The top 10 in TOP are all playoff teams except for Miami. 1. Eagles 3. Detroit 6. Ravens 8. KC. Of the contenders only Buffalo is worse at 21, and the Rams at 23.

 

[GopherWeatherGuy]

Going into last night's game, he was strong favorite to win nfl coach of the year. I was referring to that. Just my opinion, but I would say you are being prisoner of the moment.

A little maybe, but I thought last night was by far and away KOC's worst coaching job since he got here. It wasn't just Darnold, the stage looked too big for both of them. He still has a chance to change how I feel next week, but we'll see.

As far as exceeding expectations for this year based on whatever Vegas sets for wins, I don't buy that as an accomplishment at all. Most of that is based off of last seasons results. There are first to last and last to first teams every year in the NFL, everything is year to year.

While this season has been much more entertaining then we all thought, you have to be able to capitalize on seasons like this, especially in the big spots. It's not much different than 2 years ago, and one and done in the playoffs would be a massive disappointment.

There's no guarantee next year will be nearly as good. You can argue it will be just as much of a rebuilding season as this one was supposed to be. They're out of cap hell, but now they're in draft hell with 3 picks and little to show for it. New QB, new RB, need new IOL, need to add help to the DL, and their entire defensive backfield is FAs. Also the potential for a new DC, and QB coach.

 

[Slim Tubby]

..they're in draft hell with 3 picks and little to show for it. New QB, new RB, need new IOL, need to add help to the DL, and their entire defensive backfield is FAs. Also the potential for a new DC, and QB coach.

You have no future as an inspirational speaker. None.

 

[golf]

A little maybe, but I thought last night was by far and away KOC's worst coaching job since he got here. It wasn't just Darnold, the stage looked too big for both of them. He still has a chance to change how I feel next week, but we'll see.

As far as exceeding expectations for this year based on whatever Vegas sets for wins, I don't buy that as an accomplishment at all. Most of that is based off of last seasons results. There are first to last and last to first teams every year in the NFL, everything is year to year.

While this season has been much more entertaining then we all thought, you have to be able to capitalize on seasons like this, especially in the big spots. It's not much different than 2 years ago, and one and done in the playoffs would be a massive disappointment.

There's no guarantee next year will be nearly as good. You can argue it will be just as much of a rebuilding season as this one was supposed to be. They're out of cap hell, but now they're in draft hell with 3 picks and little to show for it. New QB, new RB, need new IOL, need to add help to the DL, and their entire defensive backfield is FAs. Also the potential for a new DC, and QB coach.

KOC gets massive ups from his peers and the media for developing Darnold into one of the best QBs in the NFL, for winning so many close games, and for overseeing the premiere organization in the NFL regarding culture.
I imagine you think none of these things is special, which is fine. As noted, KOC's NFL peers and sports media feel these things are special.

Also, don't understand your gloomy outlook for next season at all. FA we brought in this season made a very big difference. Capwise, we are in position to do that again and more next season.

 

[GopherWeatherGuy]

You have no future as an inspirational speaker. None.

I just call it as I see it.

 

[GopherWeatherGuy]

KOC gets massive ups from his peers and the media for developing Darnold into one of the best QBs in the NFL, for winning so many close games, and for overseeing the premiere organization in the NFL regarding culture.
I imagine you think none of these things is special, which is fine. As noted, KOC's NFL peers and sports media feel these things are special.

Also, don't understand your gloomy outlook for next season at all.

I don't disagree with a lot of that, it's not like I think he should be fired. But I'm not going to overrate him either based winning a bunch of regular season games and getting out coached when it matters. The Vikings franchise is 6th all time in postseason appearances, yet we haven't been to a Super Bowl in 48 years. It's not like we're not used to this.

Pat Shurmer did a pretty good job with Case Keenum. Kevin Stefanski, Gary Kubiak, and Klint Kubiak did a pretty good job with Cousins too.

KOC never called plays prior to coming to MN. Maybe that's the part of his job he's not good at? Sure looked like it last night, and several times during this season.

My outlook is not necessarily gloomy for next season, but there is a lot of change still coming this offseason.

 

[golf]

I don't disagree with a lot of that, it's not like I think he should be fired. But I'm not going to overrate him either based winning a bunch of regular season games and getting out coached when it matters. The Vikings franchise is 6th all time in postseason appearances, yet we haven't been to a Super Bowl in 48 years. It's not like we're not used to this.

Pat Shurmer did a pretty good job with Case Keenum. Kevin Stefanski, Gary Kubiak, and Klint Kubiak did a pretty good job with Cousins too.

KOC never called plays prior to coming to MN. Maybe that's the part of his job he's not good at? Sure looked like it last night, and several times during this season.

My outlook is not necessarily gloomy for next season, but there is a lot of change still coming this offseason.

Fair enuf. We won't agree on this which is fine.
Will agree that an 0-3 record on the big stage will reflect less than positively on the head coach. Monday's game is big.

 

[RememberMurray]

So all of a sudden KOC is a liability for losing at Detroit who has a record of 37-10 since November 2022 (including Playoffs) with what was undeniably a castoff QB to start the season with?

Wow tough crowd. Maybe KOC would have been better off at only over achieving a little bit against expectations and just settled for a 6 or 7 seed.

As for outcoaching anyone in Big games, I thought he did it the previous 2 weeks. Those were Big games. Had they lost either, last night would have been an exercise in Load Management.

Jeez. Are you new to Gopher Hole?

I kid.

There is a playoff game next week — I repeat, a playoff game. That means it's a game that none of these folks would have expected or predicted back when the Vikings 2024 season began.

Now watch... If the Vikings win that game vs. the Rams, watch what the usual suspects have to say at that point. It will be entertaining, I guarantee.

And, boy howdy, if the Vikings should happen go back to Detroit the following week and beat the Lions, this board will get really, really fun and interesting. Stock up on popcorn!

 

[Ope3]

Fair enuf. We won't agree on this which is fine.
Will agree that an 0-3 record on the big stage will reflect less than positively on the head coach. Monday's game is big.

Why was last night considered "big stage" but last week, a game flexed to 3:20 PM and a national broadcast on FOX (they had no other games in that window) not deemed "big stage"?

Seemed pretty big. Tom Brady at the mic. If the Vikings had lost to the Packers the #1 Seed/NFC North Title would have both been out of reach thus last night would have probably been a Noon kickoff.

Felt like every game since Thanksgiving was a must win to have a chance at Home Field, especially the intra-Division games.

Fell 1 short. Bummer.

 

[Ope3]

Jeez. Are you new to Gopher Hole?

I kid.

You're right. I honestly should have known better.

I would have thought a 14 win regular season engineered by a Jets & Panthers cast off at QB would have garnered some good will collateral (by all, not just some) for losing to the favorites to win the NFC.

How foolish and naive.

 

[GopherJake]

You're right. I honestly should have known better.

I would have thought a 14 win regular season engineered by a Jets & Panthers cast off at QB would have garnered some good will collateral (by all, not just some) for losing to the favorites to win the NFC.

How foolish and naive.

KOC and Darnold for two 6th rounders. If you can get that, do it before next week.

 

[Ope3]

I did wake up this morning and hedge that bet, which was actually my first ever experience hedging a bet. Didn't exactly make it a toss-up but it was still a pretty damn good return.

And of course, always fantastic to see the Packers lose in grand fashion!

Thinking about your bet, what's crazy is that the Packers and Bears wound up with identical 1-5 records against the NFC North.

They went 0-3 at Lambeau. I would be surprised if that's ever happened.

Yet they went 10-1 in their other games and qualified for the Tournament. That loss was in Brazil of all places.

Probably just as well for them that they have to go on the Road, stay in the Northern Hemisphere, and not play in in either the Minneapolis or Detroit domes.

 

[howeda7]

A coaching reputation second to only Andy Reid? Come on, he hasn't even won a playoff game yet. And the first time he was out coached by Brian Daboll, who was nearly canned this year. There are 10-15 current NFL coaches you could put ahead of KOC right now.

15 coaches you'd take over KOC? Surely you can't be serious.

 

[howeda7]

Sean McVay, Sean Payton, John Harbaugh, Jim Harbaugh & Mike Tomlin are 5 others (with Reid) with Head Coaching reps that aren't even in the same stratosphere as KOC (yet).

15 that are better might be stretching it. 10 (maybe 12) though is at least is realistic.

I'm a Broncos fan, but I would not trade KOC for 2024 Sean Payton. 2009 Sean Payton? Sure. 2024? No. Same for Jim Harbaugh (possibly both of them.)

 

[Ope3]

I'm a Broncos fan, but I would not trade KOC for 2024 Sean Payton. 2009 Sean Payton? Sure. 2024? No. Same for Jim Harbaugh (possibly both of them.)

I wouldn't trade KOC either as well (long term), but this was about their coaching "reputation". I perceived that as their past accomplishments. Both have been to the Super Bowl, have won championships (granted Jim's was CFP) and have their teams currently in the Playoffs orchestrating impressive turnarounds.

If we said KOC coached a team with hypothetical equal talent to either Payton or Harbaugh''s team on a neutral field, would you bet any real money on KOC? Just 1 game, present tense.

I wouldn't.

 

[howeda7]

I wouldn't trade KOC either as well (long term), but this was about their coaching "reputation". I perceived that as their past accomplishments. Both have been to the Super Bowl, have won championships (granted Jim's was CFP) and have their teams currently in the Playoffs orchestrating impressive turnarounds.

If we said KOC coached a team with hypothetical equal talent to either Payton or Harbaugh''s team on a neutral field, would you bet any real money on KOC? Just 1 game, present tense.

I wouldn't.

I would take KOC against Payton for sure. Probably against Harbaugh too. Payton is good but not what he once was. They butchered the end of the Cincinnati game just last week.

Harbaugh is as much of a question as KOC at this point after being out of the league for a decade. If I'd put $$ on the Chargers it's because of Herbert vs Darnold. Not the coaches.