All Things 2023 Minnesota Vikings In-Season Thread

howeda7

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 22, 2008
Messages
79,325
Reaction score
35,653
Points
113
But the Dobbs thing wasn’t sustainable as Ogee pointed out earlier and I’m disappointed that those professionals fell into that Pandora’s Box; I’m a rube and hoped he magically lift us up the playoffs, but Kwesi should have known better - that’s his gig.
Even with the drop off Dobbs experienced, the Vikings still should have won the Denver and Chicago games (and Cincy). Win 2 of those 3 and they're already in.
 

forever a gopher

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 20, 2008
Messages
2,994
Reaction score
2,787
Points
113
He was not playing like that at the start of the year.

He was playing really well when they started bouncing back from 1-4.
Your definition may be different than mine. In games 1-4, Kirk's stats:

68.7% Completion
303.5 yards/game
11 TD / 4 INT

Maybe not "out of his mind", but very good.
 


Ope3

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 12, 2008
Messages
8,102
Reaction score
5,837
Points
113

TNGophfan

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 9, 2009
Messages
1,412
Reaction score
1,138
Points
113
It would have given them the lead with like 27 seconds to go. I am not sure the statistics, but I bet the lions win that game 85% of the time. Not eyes they could have not gone for it and played for overtime. That is also assuming the extra point is made, which I bet league average on those is 85%.
92.4% this year, which is low
Historically, since they moved it back, 93 - 94%.
 


Gopher_In_NYC

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 19, 2010
Messages
16,337
Reaction score
11,322
Points
113
I think an argument could be made that starting Hall at this point could give him shell shock to the point he never even becomes a viable back-up. Especially so, with the way the Off Line played last week.

They know what they have in Hall. A project.
If he losses 20 lbs and gets braces, then he’s hot; that strategy rarely works in my experience.
 

Ogee Ogilthorpe

Over Macho Grande?
Joined
Nov 20, 2008
Messages
19,054
Reaction score
11,741
Points
113
Even with the drop off Dobbs experienced, the Vikings still should have won the Denver and Chicago games (and Cincy). Win 2 of those 3 and they're already in.

As per the Locked On Vikings podcast I listen to, and I agree, they pulled the plug on Dobbs about 5-6 quarters too late. Mullens almost certainly would have won the Denver game, at least IMO.
 

Ope3

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 12, 2008
Messages
8,102
Reaction score
5,837
Points
113
As per the Locked On Vikings podcast I listen to, and I agree, they pulled the plug on Dobbs about 5-6 quarters too late. Mullens almost certainly would have won the Denver game, at least IMO.
I am very uncertain about that, given the TOs from Mullens in the Bengals and Lions contests. Mullens rescued the Raiders game, but all he needed to do was muster a FG.

Even having an average running attack would have helped whomever they had to plug in at QB.
 

TNGophfan

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 9, 2009
Messages
1,412
Reaction score
1,138
Points
113
They need a lot. If (really big if), they resign Cousins, need a RB and another lineman on offense and D-line, edge rusher, LB, CB and safety on defense. Assuming they don't sign Hunter if they sign Cousins. If they don't, add QB to list.
 



short ornery norwegian

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 9, 2011
Messages
19,213
Reaction score
12,796
Points
113
It's just been a weird season.

Vikes go 1-4 first 5 games of the season
then they go 5-0 in the next 5 games.
most recently 1-5 in the last six games

in the first 3 games of the season - all losses - Cousins threw for 344, 364 & 367 yards. the Vikes have also lost games where the QB threw for 284, 303 & 411 yards.

the Vikes have won games this season where the QB threw for 139, 181, 158, and 83 yards.

If you can explain that, good luck.
 

howeda7

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 22, 2008
Messages
79,325
Reaction score
35,653
Points
113
If they're drafting a QB they should move on from Cousins. They're not a Super Bowl contender in 2024. Get a cheaper bridge QB. Drew Lock is my pick but there are plenty of other options. Gardner Minshew, Tyler Huntley. Jaemis Winston. Sam Darnold.
 

MplsGopher

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 4, 2017
Messages
35,595
Reaction score
9,779
Points
113
If they're drafting a QB they should move on from Cousins. They're not a Super Bowl contender in 2024. Get a cheaper bridge QB. Drew Lock is my pick but there are plenty of other options. Gardner Minshew, Tyler Huntley. Jaemis Winston. Sam Darnold.
😂😂😂

Kiss of death.

They will resign Cousins and draft a QB. It is now so.

Will be fully guaranteed and a number per year that you find preposterous.

Only question is if he will accept two years or demand three.


Trade up for Penix. Worth a shot
 




MplsGopher

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 4, 2017
Messages
35,595
Reaction score
9,779
Points
113
If you can explain that, good luck.
Take all regular season games except the last week for the 2022 and 2023 seasons, all QB’s.

Plot a data point on a graph where the X axis is total passing yards for each teams’s biggest passer in each game, and the corresponding Y axis value is that QB’s team’s point differential in that game. So positive values mean they won that game, negative values mean they lost that game.

Wild guess:
almost zero correlation will exist between these.

But would like to know what the actual numbers say.
 

MplsGopher

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 4, 2017
Messages
35,595
Reaction score
9,779
Points
113
Even having an average running attack would have helped whomever they had to plug in at QB.
What is Chandler’s average rushing yards per attempt? Wild guessing it is pretty good?

He gets exposed on pass blocking, unfortunately.
 

MplsGopher

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 4, 2017
Messages
35,595
Reaction score
9,779
Points
113
It would have given them the lead with like 27 seconds to go. I am not sure the statistics, but I bet the lions win that game 85% of the time.
Lots of similar things can be said for a lot of games “if the refs just would’ve called PI on our desperation heave!! He was holding the guy!”

Nope. It’s on Dan.

You kick the XP and play for OT. His fault
 

MplsGopher

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 4, 2017
Messages
35,595
Reaction score
9,779
Points
113
Your definition may be different than mine. In games 1-4, Kirk's stats:

68.7% Completion
303.5 yards/game
11 TD / 4 INT

Maybe not "out of his mind", but very good.
Top two lines are great. 11TD in 5 games is not. 2TD per game?

The defense was doing its job. The offense was not scoring points.

Opposite of 22.
 

Ope3

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 12, 2008
Messages
8,102
Reaction score
5,837
Points
113
What is Chandler’s average rushing yards per attempt? Wild guessing it is pretty good?

He gets exposed on pass blocking, unfortunately.
4.4/Attempt. That ranks 136 in the NFL, but I don't know how telling that is one way or another as it also includes QBs, WRs and other RBs with much fewer attempts.

Even Chandler's workload is rather low with 90 attempts and ranks 52nd. I suppose because he ranks 54th in yds, my novice opinion would be "he's OK", not "pretty good".

And that's the best they got on a rather low sample size.
 

MplsGopher

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 4, 2017
Messages
35,595
Reaction score
9,779
Points
113
4.4/Attempt. That ranks 136 in the NFL, but I don't know how telling that is one way or another as it also includes QBs, WRs and other RBs with much fewer attempts.

Even Chandler's workload is rather low with 90 attempts and ranks 52nd. I suppose because he ranks 54th in yds, my novice opinion would be "he's OK", not "pretty good".

And that's the best they got on a rather low sample size.
Stats can shield a lot.

For example, what if going from 4.4 to 4.8 gets him from 146 up to 60 best? Does that win us more games?

Not crappjng on you. Thanks for the stats!
 

Ope3

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 12, 2008
Messages
8,102
Reaction score
5,837
Points
113
Stats can shield a lot.

For example, what if going from 4.4 to 4.8 gets him from 146 up to 60 best? Does that win us more games?

Not crappjng on you. Thanks for the stats!
I can't say one way or another if it wins more games.

Best I can offer is that even a marginally better rushing attack by the team as a whole could have been enough to manage the clock and win 1 or more of the Broncos, Bears or Bengals contests.
 

short ornery norwegian

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 9, 2011
Messages
19,213
Reaction score
12,796
Points
113
😂😂😂

Kiss of death.

They will resign Cousins and draft a QB. It is now so.

Will be fully guaranteed and a number per year that you find preposterous.

Only question is if he will accept two years or demand three.


Trade up for Penix. Worth a shot

OK - the argument, as I understand it, for drafting a rookie QB is that you get them under a rookie pay scale for 4 or 5 years, depending on the contract. that, in turn, means theoretically that the team has more money available to sign other players and put together the best possible team. once the rookie QB goes off the rookie pay scale, that's when you run into cap issues.

but - If you are paying a veteran QB like Cousins a market-rate salary for 2 or three years, you essentially lose the advantage of a rookie pay-scale QB for those 2 or 3 years, leaving only 1 or two years to capitalize on the benefit of a lower salary QB.

hence the idea that, if you draft a rookie like Penix - you do not sign Cousins to a market-rate deal. you go out and sign a lower-cost veteran to be a bridge QB for one year as an insurance policy. an extra $20-million in cap space could mean that you re-sign one or two veterans players who can help the team win.

I am NOT saying Cousins is a bad QB.
I AM saying that teams have to make choices, and I would rather pay a rookie QB and re-sign other players as opposed to having Cousins eat up $40-million+ of the salary cap.
 

MplsGopher

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 4, 2017
Messages
35,595
Reaction score
9,779
Points
113
It’s just nowhere near that cookie-cutter simple and neat SON.

Why did the Packers draft Rodgers when they still had Favre and why did they draft Love when they still had Rodgers?

It worked out.
 

howeda7

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 22, 2008
Messages
79,325
Reaction score
35,653
Points
113
OK - the argument, as I understand it, for drafting a rookie QB is that you get them under a rookie pay scale for 4 or 5 years, depending on the contract. that, in turn, means theoretically that the team has more money available to sign other players and put together the best possible team. once the rookie QB goes off the rookie pay scale, that's when you run into cap issues.

but - If you are paying a veteran QB like Cousins a market-rate salary for 2 or three years, you essentially lose the advantage of a rookie pay-scale QB for those 2 or 3 years, leaving only 1 or two years to capitalize on the benefit of a lower salary QB.

hence the idea that, if you draft a rookie like Penix - you do not sign Cousins to a market-rate deal. you go out and sign a lower-cost veteran to be a bridge QB for one year as an insurance policy. an extra $20-million in cap space could mean that you re-sign one or two veterans players who can help the team win.

I am NOT saying Cousins is a bad QB.
I AM saying that teams have to make choices, and I would rather pay a rookie QB and re-sign other players as opposed to having Cousins eat up $40-million+ of the salary cap.
This. Rogers was drafted in a different era and Love was like the 26th pick. If you're drafting a QB in the top 12, it doesn't make sense to also sign a veteran to a multi-year contract. If Cousins will take a one year deal, or a deal that can reasonably be gotten out of after one year, fine. If he requires multiple guaranteed years. let him walk.
 

Gopher_In_NYC

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 19, 2010
Messages
16,337
Reaction score
11,322
Points
113
If the Cowboys win this weekend, thus becoming the BFL East Champs, it will be the 18th consecutive year that a different team wins the division - an NFL record.
 

kg21

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 25, 2021
Messages
18,160
Reaction score
8,907
Points
113
😂😂😂

Kiss of death.

They will resign Cousins and draft a QB. It is now so.

Will be fully guaranteed and a number per year that you find preposterous.

Only question is if he will accept two years or demand three.


Trade up for Penix. Worth a shot
What the hell?

I've been saying get a high pick for a qb. Your response was that it never works out, blah, blah, blah

Now you want the qb and to trade up. I swear there are two MLPS on this site. One who is sober and the other who is drunk.

Oh, and just for the record, they won't have to trade up if they want Penix.
 

Gopher_In_NYC

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 19, 2010
Messages
16,337
Reaction score
11,322
Points
113
What the hell?

I've been saying get a high pick for a qb. Your response was that it never works out, blah, blah, blah

Now you want the qb and to trade up. I swear there are two MLPS on this site. One who is sober and the other who is drunk.

Oh, and just for the record, they won't have to trade up if they want Penix.
Why wouldn’t the Vikes have to trade up to get Pennix?
Who will be selected in front of him?
 

kg21

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 25, 2021
Messages
18,160
Reaction score
8,907
Points
113
Why wouldn’t the Vikes have to trade up to get Pennix?
Who will be selected in front of him?
Currently picking 12th

Hopefully 10th after Sunday.

You have May, Williams and Daniels are all projected to go ahead of him. Also, there are some teams ahead of us that will not take qb. The chargers for instance.
 

JimmyJamesMD

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 12, 2008
Messages
13,250
Reaction score
4,535
Points
113
Currently picking 12th

Hopefully 10th after Sunday.

You have May, Williams and Daniels are all projected to go ahead of him. Also, there are some teams ahead of us that will not take qb. The chargers for instance.
Pennix and nix are both 50 years old. That will hurt their draft stock a bit
 

howeda7

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 22, 2008
Messages
79,325
Reaction score
35,653
Points
113
Why wouldn’t the Vikes have to trade up to get Pennix?
Who will be selected in front of him?
Pennix is currently projected as a late 1st or early 2nd round pick. Even if his stock has risen a lot, he's unlikely to go higher than 12th.
 

Ogee Ogilthorpe

Over Macho Grande?
Joined
Nov 20, 2008
Messages
19,054
Reaction score
11,741
Points
113
Why wouldn’t the Vikes have to trade up to get Pennix?
Who will be selected in front of him?

Anyone who thinks Penix will go in the top 10 or top half of the first round, don't understand just how seriously NFL teams take the medicals on these players into consideration. From everything we've seen and heard around draft day in the last 5-10 years, it's LITERALLY the primary focus of the conversation on every player on the board.

Penix looks great, but that injury report is going to scare a lot of people away. MAYBE not, but I'd be shocked.
 




Top Bottom