All Things 2023 Minnesota Vikings In-Season Thread

Ogee Ogilthorpe

Over Macho Grande?
Joined
Nov 20, 2008
Messages
19,054
Reaction score
11,741
Points
113
OK - the argument, as I understand it, for drafting a rookie QB is that you get them under a rookie pay scale for 4 or 5 years, depending on the contract. that, in turn, means theoretically that the team has more money available to sign other players and put together the best possible team. once the rookie QB goes off the rookie pay scale, that's when you run into cap issues.

but - If you are paying a veteran QB like Cousins a market-rate salary for 2 or three years, you essentially lose the advantage of a rookie pay-scale QB for those 2 or 3 years, leaving only 1 or two years to capitalize on the benefit of a lower salary QB.

hence the idea that, if you draft a rookie like Penix - you do not sign Cousins to a market-rate deal. you go out and sign a lower-cost veteran to be a bridge QB for one year as an insurance policy. an extra $20-million in cap space could mean that you re-sign one or two veterans players who can help the team win.

I am NOT saying Cousins is a bad QB.
I AM saying that teams have to make choices, and I would rather pay a rookie QB and re-sign other players as opposed to having Cousins eat up $40-million+ of the salary cap.

You're not wrong on a lot of this, but the real question when discussing "rookie QBs" is just how high you have to draft them. Take a quick look at who's starting in the NFL in Weeks 17 and 18 for some of these teams, many of them in playoff contention.

- Steelers. Mason Rudolph. (later round pick)
- Colts. Gardner Minshew. (later round pick)
- Vikings. Nick Mullens. (even if it were Cousins, he was a 4th rounder)
- Patriots. Zappe
- Falcons. Heinecke/Ridder
- Jets. Simian?
- Saints. Derek Carr. (4th round?)
- 49ers. Brock Purdy
- Seahawks. Geno Smith/Drew Lock
- Cowboys. Dak Prescott (4th round)
- WFT. Sam Howell (5th round
- Broncos. Jarrett Stidham (late round)
- Raiders Aidan O'Connell
- Eagles. Jalen Hurts (2nd round)
- Bengals. Jake Browning (Vikings draft pick!)

And then look at how many 1st Round Picks are staying home for the playoffs or fighting for their playoff lives

- Steelers and Pickett
- Texans and CJ Stroud (although obviously Stroud has been exceptionally good)
- Tampa Bay and Baker Mayfield
- Panthers and Bryce Young
- Patriots and Mac Jones
- Jets and Zach Wilson
- Jaguars and Trevor Lawrence
- Cardinals and Kyler Murray. (Murray obviously missed half season but they'd still be out)
- Giants and Daniel Jones
- Bears and Justin Fields
- Packers and Jordan Love
- Chargers and Justin Herbert. (Herbert is hurt, but they were almost certainly not making the playoffs)


So do you really, REALLY have to "tank" to try to get a pick in the top 10-12 picks or ABSOLUTELY have to use your coveted 1st Round Pick on a QB?

It's all about your draft board and how much you LOVE the QBs on it. By all means, if the Vikings are drafting at 12 and there's a QB there that they had a Top 5 or so grade on them? Absolutely

But if you're picking a QB with your 1st round pick, you better damn well LOVE, I mean LOVE, that player and how they fit your scheme, how they fit your roster, and what their mental makeup is.
 


Gopher_In_NYC

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 19, 2010
Messages
16,337
Reaction score
11,322
Points
113
Pennix and nix are both 50 years old. That will hurt their draft stock a bit
Pennix is currently projected as a late 1st or early 2nd round pick. Even if his stock has risen a lot, he's unlikely to go higher than 12th.
Let’s hope so, can you imagine him dropping dimes into JJ - wow.

Booger McFarland said today that Pennix has the best delivery he’s seen in a long time, FWIW.

I could live with Nixx as well.
 


howeda7

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 22, 2008
Messages
79,325
Reaction score
35,653
Points
113
Let’s hope so, can you imagine him dropping dimes into JJ - wow.

Booger McFarland said today that Pennix has the best delivery he’s seen in a long time, FWIW.

I could live with Nixx as well.
He throws the best deep ball I've ever seen for a college QB. And we have the WR's to take advantage.
 


short ornery norwegian

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 9, 2011
Messages
19,213
Reaction score
12,796
Points
113
if Penix has another big game in the championship - coming off his performance in the semi-finals, that should bump up his draft stock.

FWIW - I just looked at 4 or 5 mock drafts. one had Penix to the Vikings at 12. Two had him going at #9 to Atlanta, with the Vikings taking an Edge rusher. another mock had the Vikings taking Bo Nix from Oregon.

If the Vikes wind up at 12, I think they're going to have to trade up if they want Penix.
 



MplsGopher

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 4, 2017
Messages
35,595
Reaction score
9,779
Points
113
Pennix is currently projected as a late 1st or early 2nd round pick. Even if his stock has risen a lot, he's unlikely to go higher than 12th.
:ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:

Kiss.Of.Death.

Yeah, right, the guy slinging the ball all over the field and leading his improbably team to a national title, and then goes on to have a great combine, will be picked in the 20's, if not 30's!

Can't make it up how wrong your takes consistently are
 



MplsGopher

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 4, 2017
Messages
35,595
Reaction score
9,779
Points
113
If you're drafting a QB in the top 12, it doesn't make sense to also sign a veteran to a multi-year contract.
:ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:

Yep, top 12. That's for sure the cutoff. Not at all an arbitrary number you pulled out of your ass.

If you draft 13, then sign your QB to a seven year deal.
 



Ogee Ogilthorpe

Over Macho Grande?
Joined
Nov 20, 2008
Messages
19,054
Reaction score
11,741
Points
113
This article from CBS Sports predicts Penix will go top 5


People were predicting Malik Willis would go top 5, top 10 a couple of years ago. He went in the 3rd round. Different players, sure, but hard to put a lot of stock in early January speculation.

It could happen, but with the medicals I'm just not seeing it. For him, I hope he goes high; he's clearly a hella talented player.
 



GophersInIowa

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 21, 2008
Messages
39,735
Reaction score
20,197
Points
113
Anyone who thinks Penix will go in the top 10 or top half of the first round, don't understand just how seriously NFL teams take the medicals on these players into consideration. From everything we've seen and heard around draft day in the last 5-10 years, it's LITERALLY the primary focus of the conversation on every player on the board.

Penix looks great, but that injury report is going to scare a lot of people away. MAYBE not, but I'd be shocked.
Ponder went 12th so anything is possible. Penix shouldn't go in the top 10 but teams panic and take QBs much earlier than they should.
 

Gopher_In_NYC

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 19, 2010
Messages
16,337
Reaction score
11,322
Points
113
if Penix has another big game in the championship - coming off his performance in the semi-finals, that should bump up his draft stock.

FWIW - I just looked at 4 or 5 mock drafts. one had Penix to the Vikings at 12. Two had him going at #9 to Atlanta, with the Vikings taking an Edge rusher. another mock had the Vikings taking Bo Nix from Oregon.

If the Vikes wind up at 12, I think they're going to have to trade up if they want Penix.
That’s what I’m thinking too.
 

Gopher_In_NYC

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 19, 2010
Messages
16,337
Reaction score
11,322
Points
113
Penix and Nix aren't 1st Round players.

You don't want to over draft and end up with another Ponder.

You take those guys in Round 2 or later.
They’re both much better players than Ponder ever was in college.

Is your first name Subjective?
 

JimmyJamesMD

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 12, 2008
Messages
13,250
Reaction score
4,535
Points
113
People were predicting Malik Willis would go top 5, top 10 a couple of years ago. He went in the 3rd round. Different players, sure, but hard to put a lot of stock in early January speculation.

It could happen, but with the medicals I'm just not seeing it. For him, I hope he goes high; he's clearly a hella talented player.
I like him for Vikings. Id take him with their first rounder. And I have a total man crush on Kirk. But its time
 
Last edited:






MplsGopher

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 4, 2017
Messages
35,595
Reaction score
9,779
Points
113
but taking the qb after trading up suddenly does!
Tanking is 100% decoupled from choosing to take a QB with your first round pick.

You could tank with the hopes of landing the next Aaron Donald or Reggie White.


Tanking = 100% false and has never worked.

Trading up to take a QB can work. Chiefs Mahomes for example. Hence why I said give it a shot.
 

kg21

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 25, 2021
Messages
18,160
Reaction score
8,907
Points
113
Tanking is 100% decoupled from choosing to take a QB with your first round pick.

You could tank with the hopes of landing the next Aaron Donald or Reggie White.


Tanking = 100% false and has never worked.

Trading up to take a QB can work. Chiefs Mahomes for example. Hence why I said give it a shot.
I know trading up can work. It does not appear we would have to trade up much to get your guy.

At pick 22, you'd be trading a lot.
 

forever a gopher

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 20, 2008
Messages
2,994
Reaction score
2,787
Points
113
Although he is good at moving within the pocket, Penix is an absolute statue, even worse than Cousins. In today’s NFL, I’m skeptical even with a big arm he will be exceptional. Add in his injury history, and if he goes in the first round, he’s a reach IMO. He has historically been a late first rounder/second rounder in the mocks and his good performances lately have risen his perceived stock. Maybe I’m just a burned MN sports fan, but I get Johnny Flynn vibes when that happens.
 

MplsGopher

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 4, 2017
Messages
35,595
Reaction score
9,779
Points
113
I know trading up can work. It does not appear we would have to trade up much to get your guy.

At pick 22, you'd be trading a lot.
Did the chiefs trade up a lot after going 12-4 and winning their division to get Mahomes? Just asking.

Also, 22? Don’t 14 teams make it? No way we wouldn’t be a 7th seed.
 

short ornery norwegian

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 9, 2011
Messages
19,213
Reaction score
12,796
Points
113
just for the heck of it - went to ESPN for Mel Kiper Jr's draft rankings.
He has Penix as the #10 player overall and #4 at QB

the top-10 player rankings:
1. Caleb Williams, QB, USC
2. Marvin Harrison Jr, WR, OSU
3. Drake Maye, QB, NCar
4. Jayden Daniels, QB, LSU
5. Rome Odunze, WR, Washington
6. Malik Nabers, WR, LSU
7. Brock Bowers, TE, Georgia
8. Olumuyiwa Fashanu - OT, Penn State
9. Joe Alt OT - Notre Dame
10. Michael Penix Jr QB -Washington

the QB rankings:
1. Caleb Williams USC
2. Drake Maye, NCar
3. Jayden Daniels LSU
4. Michael Penix Jr Washington
5. JJ McCarthy Michigan
6. Bo Nix Oregon
7. Spencer Rattler SCar
8 Michael Pratt Tulane
9. Jordan Travis Fla State
10. Joe Milton III Tennessee
 

Gopher_In_NYC

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 19, 2010
Messages
16,337
Reaction score
11,322
Points
113
just for the heck of it - went to ESPN for Mel Kiper Jr's draft rankings.
He has Penix as the #10 player overall and #4 at QB

the top-10 player rankings:
1. Caleb Williams, QB, USC
2. Marvin Harrison Jr, WR, OSU
3. Drake Maye, QB, NCar
4. Jayden Daniels, QB, LSU
5. Rome Odunze, WR, Washington
6. Malik Nabers, WR, LSU
7. Brock Bowers, TE, Georgia
8. Olumuyiwa Fashanu - OT, Penn State
9. Joe Alt OT - Notre Dame
10. Michael Penix Jr QB -Washington

the QB rankings:
1. Caleb Williams USC
2. Drake Maye, NCar
3. Jayden Daniels LSU
4. Michael Penix Jr Washington
5. JJ McCarthy Michigan
6. Bo Nix Oregon
7. Spencer Rattler SCar
8 Michael Pratt Tulane
9. Jordan Travis Fla State
10. Joe Milton III Tennessee
Hard pass on Tribusky Maye or McCarthy for me - I’ll take any of the other top 6.
 


kg21

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 25, 2021
Messages
18,160
Reaction score
8,907
Points
113
Did the chiefs trade up a lot after going 12-4 and winning their division to get Mahomes? Just asking.

Also, 22? Don’t 14 teams make it? No way we wouldn’t be a 7th seed.
The chiefs have nothing to do with the Vikings. Absolutely nothing.
 




Top Bottom