All Things 2022 Minnesota Vikings Off-Season Thread

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Ogee Oglethorpe said:
This could arguably be a thread all on its own but I'll throw this out here...what

Let's assume Cousins is being extended. Not just because KOC may or may not be a huge fan but you have to think about it from KOC's point of view; starting with a 100% unknown QB (more than likely anyway) to start your first gig as an NFL HC is not a HUGE recipe for long term success.

So assuming Cousins gets extended, what's the number going to be? I would think Cousins' number is going to be in the $35-$37M/year range. No incentive for taking much less; Shit, Dak is making upwards of $40M/year and Cousins is every bit as good as Dak, arguably a lot better in many areas (one of them being the ability to stay on the field).

What are they going to do with Cousins, make your prediction here...
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They will extend Cousins, and likely in the range you mentioned. The Vikings aren't stupid, they know how rough it can be without a solid QB. Say what you want about Cousins, but if they trade/cut him, the next QB will almost certainly be a major downgrade.
 






short ornery norwegian said:
If they do go to a 3-4, that means a fairly substantial revamp of the defensive personnel.

D-line has to be reworked. What do you do with Hunter - he's small for a 3-4 DE, but is he mobile enough to be an outside LB in a 3-4?

and Kendricks is small for a 3-4 inside LB.

so, if they're going 3-4, there is going to be a lot of turnover on the defense. that is not a 1-year project. could take 2 to 3 years to get sorted out.
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Tampa Bay's all pro lib'ers in a 3-4 are 235 lbs. I think hunter will be just fine at olb, he will still rush the passer a very high percent of the time.
 

The blind allegiance to coaches who took this team to 8-9 confuses me.

People act like Patterson WAS NOT the leader of a 30th ranked defense.
Also, the amount of love McCardell gets as if he single handedly made Jefferson a great WR seems inapproriate.

To assume these things, you would need to essentially believe Zimmer and Spielman were the whole problem.
 

Face The Facts said:
The blind allegiance to coaches who took this team to 8-9 confuses me.

People act like Patterson WAS NOT the leader of a 30th ranked defense.
Also, the amount of love McCardell gets as if he single handedly made Jefferson a great WR seems inapproriate.

To assume these things, you would need to essentially believe Zimmer and Spielman were the whole problem.
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Fair take, but I think it is widely known how good Patterson is at developing DL. At least I think that's the idea. A defense doesn't depend just on OL, and a team's outcome doesn't depend just on defense.
 

Bad Gopher said:
Everybody's guessing 3-4, at least as a base defense.

The Vikes might have played 3-4 in 1984 under Floyd Reese and Les Steckel. They've been 4-3 ever since as far as I know. In 1985 they played a lot of what Bob Hollway called the "Eagle Orange" defense, which was a knockoff of the Bears' 46 defense, but it still featured four down linemen. In 1986, Burns hired Floyd Peters, who was a 4-3 guy, and the rest is history.
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Looks like it was their base defense, at least in 1982.


That makes sense now that I remember Charlie Johnson, who was a perfect 3-4 NT. And they had a slew of good linebackers. Word to the young ones: you might not have heard of Doug Martin, but he was a great one, albeit for a relatively short career.
 



Gophers_4life said:
Fair take, but I think it is widely known how good Patterson is at developing DL. At least I think that's the idea. A defense doesn't depend just on OL, and a team's outcome doesn't depend just on defense.
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Our DL was simply horrific this year and has been the last couple.
Who are the DL he is good at developing? And if they are good, what is he doing as coach that's preventing them (I mean the one dude named Danielle Hunter) from playing.

Good at developing DL?
Where?
Who?
When?
 

Face The Facts said:
Our DL was simply horrific this year and has been the last couple.
Who are the DL he is good at developing? And if they are good, what is he doing as coach that's preventing them (I mean the one dude named Danielle Hunter) from playing.

Good at developing DL?
Where?
Who?
When?
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I'll turn it right back around at you, since you made the claim.

Who says they were horrific? Which players were horrific and what stats back that up?

Mind you, a DL can do exactly the job he is supposed to do, and do it at an all-pro level ... in a way that isn't easily measured by a stat. "Occupied OL" isn't a stat.
 

Almost every game was entertaining. It was great for us spectators.
 

Gophers_4life said:
I'll turn it right back around at you, since you made the claim.

Who says they were horrific? Which players were horrific and what stats back that up?

Mind you, a DL can do exactly the job he is supposed to do, and do it at an all-pro level ... in a way that isn't easily measured by a stat. "Occupied OL" isn't a stat.
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Because the defense was ranked in the bottom 2-3 in the league.
If 4/11th of your team is really good, but you still rank in the bottom 2-3 of the league, I kinda question if they were good.
 



at the end of the day, the 2021 Vikings were not a championship-level team. Not even close.

Yes, they lost some close games. but does anyone who watched the recent playoffs honestly think the Vikings could compete with those teams?

Zimmer and Spielman had their shot. they came up short.

and now they have left the new guys with a roster that has salary-cap issues, issues on the OL, and issues at every position on defense.

the owners don't want to call it a rebuild, but the defense has to be rebuilt. and if Cousins is traded, there will be a revamp on offense, too.

if the new GM and HC do everything right, maybe by 2023 this team can be competitive.
 

Spaulding!No! said:
Almost every game was entertaining. It was great for us spectators.
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Yes! That's what I've been saying all year. I knew this team was going nowhere, so I didn't get too worked up about whether they won or lost. This was a really enjoyable season to watch, especially knowing it was going to spell the end for Zimmer and Spielmann.
 

short ornery norwegian said:
at the end of the day, the 2021 Vikings were not a championship-level team. Not even close.

Yes, they lost some close games. but does anyone who watched the recent playoffs honestly think the Vikings could compete with those teams?

Zimmer and Spielman had their shot. they came up short.

and now they have left the new guys with a roster that has salary-cap issues, issues on the OL, and issues at every position on defense.

the owners don't want to call it a rebuild, but the defense has to be rebuilt. and if Cousins is traded, there will be a revamp on offense, too.

if the new GM and HC do everything right, maybe by 2023 this team can be competitive.
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Well we lost by 3 in OT to one of the super bowl teams and lost by 7 to the other…
 

Face The Facts said:
Because the defense was ranked in the bottom 2-3 in the league.
If 4/11th of your team is really good, but you still rank in the bottom 2-3 of the league, I kinda question if they were good.
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I didn't say out DL was good. I said Patterson is good at developing DL. That's just what was written about him, I don't have a personal opinion/judgement on that.

You said our DL was horrible. Your justification for that is that our defense was bad.

Like I said, it is entirely possible for the DL actually do a good job (ie, occupying/tying up OL) and yet the rest of the defenders fail at their job.
 

Face The Facts said:
Because the defense was ranked in the bottom 2-3 in the league.
If 4/11th of your team is really good, but you still rank in the bottom 2-3 of the league, I kinda question if they were good.
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The DL wasn't good this season but that has more to do with starting 2nd stringers most of the year.
 


short ornery norwegian said:
Zimmer and Spielman had their shot. they came up short.

and now they have left the new guys with a roster that has salary-cap issues, issues on the OL, and issues at every position on defense.
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The "poor OL" mantra isn't one that will really fly that much longer. They have invested on the OL, and while it maybe hasn't ALL been great, they have some solid pieces. Arguably, they are above average (or even better as time goes on) at the OT positions with O'Neill and Darrisaw, which is more than most teams can say. Bradbury's fate will probably be determined by what scheme the new regime wants to run, if it favors his strengths of reach blocking and mobility. OG, Cleveland may or may not be an adequate piece, the jury is still out on Wyatt Davis, they need to sign at least one FA on the interior.

The Vikings were crushed each of the last two years by Hunter and Pierce, if I recall correctly, playing around 8 games each in 2 seasons. You're talking about two premium players on the DL that were AWOL. Gladney going bonkers and managing to get himself unemployed sure as hell didn't help.

This isn't a rebuild, but they need to fill some holes on defense, that's for sure.
 


gophersfan said:
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I'm warming up to KOC more and more. Not that I'm a huge fan of Pettine necessarily, but the hiring of Donatell and Pettine tells me the new HC is smart enough to hire smart and experienced people around him, especially on the other side of the ball.

I have hope, arguably the worst thing a Vikings fan can have
 


This SB, wow the refs are letting them play. Like they forgot to bring their yellow hankies.

Not complaining.
 


Ope3 said:
I guess they were saving them up for after the 2 minute warning, to Cincy's chagrin.
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Yep, the holding call to give LA a first down was bad, since they hadn’t made that call all game long. I think Cincy wins if that call isn’t made.
 
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Well, good for Matt Stafford. I would have been good with either team winning but for Stafford to labor in a shit situation like Detroit for so long, good for him.
 

I miss the days of someone being dominant. Every one of these games comes down to a lucky bounce or some referee horseshit call.

I feel like the winners of the super bowl are now more lucky than good.

And no whistles all game long, and then a barrage of them. Whatever, NFL
 

Face The Facts said:
Let's do a thread on the Spielman picks that weren't a waste.

Harrison Smith
Barr
Kendricks
O'Neill
Cook
Danielle Hunter (although that's starting to look wasted)
Justin Jefferson (and/or Diggs depending on how you consider that)

Hand full of average players to fill out a starting roster after that.
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JJ just fell into our lap and was something that almost every GHer would have made. Cook was also a very obvious choice and that was not a skilled decision to take Cook. Spielman was here for 16 years and if he was good, he would have found more hidden gems after the 1st round.
 

^^^^^ We've been over this before. Danielle Hunter was drafted in 2014. Rick hasn't drafted one defensive player since then that one would call even slightly above average. It's an embarrassment.

He has also been trying to fix the offensive in that same time span.

Spielman sucks.
 

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