All Things 2022 Minnesota Vikings Off-Season Thread

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boofbonser said:
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Martindale just got hired by the giants so he is off the table. The most interesting thing after researching those candidates, is all of those 3 come from teams that run 3-4 defenses (Weaver ran a 3-4 in Houston last year). I wonder if the Vikings are looking to change from 4-3 to 3-4?
 
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coolhandgopher said:
I don't see that as an argument against Cousins-there's been many pocket quarterbacks who have had very good years (or are in the midst of such runs) in recent times during that age range. It includes the all-time greats (Brady, Rodgers, Favre, P. Manning, Brees), borderline HOF's (Roethlisberger, Rivers) and some guys who I think are good comps for Cousins (C. Palmer, Stafford, E. Manning, M. Ryan).

Tony Romo would have likely been added to this list--at age 34, he had his best season (34/9, third in MVP voting), but the next season he had that devastating injury that basically ended his career.

So, there's 10/11 quarterbacks from very recent history who excelled through their 34-36 range. Obviously, Cousins isn't Brady or Rodgers-but prior to this season, was he that different from Stafford? And, whether for the Vikings or another team who feels they're close to replicating what the Rams did this season (the Browns jump out to me), Cousins is in position for at least one more big contract/extension. You can argue that he doesn't have what it takes to lead the Vikings to playoff glory and you'd have a pretty strong argument-but he's going to get paid.
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I don't disagree, but the Vikings are not that team. We were that team in 2018 when we signed him. It didn't work out. Maybe he can lead the Browns or Broncos or Bucs down that path.
 

forever a gopher said:
There are almost always too many teams starved at QB for one or both of them to fall to 12. There are currently 4 teams ahead of pick 12 that need QB's for sure (Houston, Carolina, Denver, Washington), and another 2 that could possibly pull the trigger if they fall in love with a certain guy, but will probably have to wait at least one more year based on their current QB contract (Detroit, Atlanta). That doesn't include trades. Jacksonville and Detroit could trade away their pick since they probably won't use it on a QB and get a bunch more picks.

With that said, if Pickett or Corral "fall" to 12, I'd be all over that. If it doesn't work out, get rid of him and try again in a few years. Honestly, I wouldn't touch the Liberty kid. He might be amazing, just don't know that I'd blow a top 12 pick on a QB from a place like Liberty, right or wrong. I've said it before, but QB is just too important in the current day NFL - keep swinging on QB's until you find one. If Pickett and Corral are gone, I'd take Linderbaum, assuming he's still available. Bradbury is terrible and needs to go.
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I can't say I've seen more than highlights of him, but when I read one of his weaknesses is accuracy, I'm out. That's why I like the Ole Miss QB.
 


Face The Facts said:
I'd be up for giving Mariota a shot.

I don't want Dalton.

Mond is not the answer. He shouldn't have been drafted. Wasted Spielman pick.
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Almost any quarterback drafted after the first round is a wasted pick. We all know the ad nauseam story of Tom Brady being selected in the 6th round and going on to become the best QB of all-time. Since that occurred in 2000, here are the QB's who have made a Pro Bowl that were selected outside of Round 1:
Derek Anderson (Round 6)
Drew Brees (2)
Marc Bulger (6)
David Carr (2)
Matt Cassell (7)
Kirk Cousins (4)
Andy Dalton (2)
Jake Delhomme (UDFA)
Nick Foles (3)
Rich Gannon (4)
Jeff Garcia (UDFA)
David Garrard (4)
Elvis Grbac (8)
Trent Green (8)
Brian Griese (3)
Matt Hasselbeck (6)
Brad Johnson (9)
Dak Prescott (4)
Tony Romo (UDFA)
Matt Schaub (3)
Kordell Stewart (2)
Tyrod Taylor (6)
Kurt Warner (UDFA)
Russell Wilson (3)

So, a few thoughts:
1. Whew, there have been some really mediocre quarterbacks who have made the Pro Bowl in the last 22 years!
2. There are as many UDFA's who have made the Pro Bowl in that time span as QB's chosen in each of Rounds 3 and 4.
3. Pro Bowl QB's, Rounds 3-5: 8; Rounds 6 and above: 9 (including Brady, who I didn't list here)

Let's do another exercise...here are the names of quarterbacks drafted in Rounds 3-5 from 2017-2019, so they've been in the league from 3-5 years, enough time to establish who they are, you would think. I will highlight those who have been starting quarterbacks for more than a handful of games in their career:
Davis Webb, CJ Beathard, Joshua Dobbs, Nathan Peterman, Mason Rudolph, Kyle Lauletta, Mike White, Will Grier, Ryan Finley, Jarrod Stidham, Easton Stick, Clayton Thorson

When the valedictorian of your group is a guy whose claim to fame is as an injury replacement who had his own helmet ripped off his head and plunked with by Myles Garrett, you're not exactly an illustrious group.

So, if history tells us anything, once you get outside of Round 2, don't bother spending your draft capital in those mid-rounds, where we are told over and over the backbone of championship teams are built, on quarterbacks destined to hold clipboards for their careers when you have the potential to add starters/impactful players at virtually every other position.

That all being said, there was a quarterback in Round 3 taken this year who started several games and showed some real promise--Davis Mills, taken exactly one pick after Mond by the Texans. Which leads to my final thought. . .

Forget about Mariota or Winston for next season, if the Vikes do jettison Cousins; the guy they should get is Tyrod Taylor--not for what he'll do next season, but look at who has followed in his footsteps at his last three stops: Josh Allen, Justin Herbert, and Mills. Why, we'd be almost guaranteed to get a franchise QB in short order if we have Taylor preceding him on the field.
 


howeda7 said:
Wade Phillips is openly campaigning for the DC spot. The staff needs experience. Give him a shot.
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The Vikings have to be one of the 2 or 3 NFL teams that Wade Phillips has never been employed by yet.
 

Ope3 said:
The Vikings have to be one of the 2 or 3 NFL teams that Wade Phillips has never been employed by yet.
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And his son is a leading candidate to be OC. We can't just go cold turkey on the nepotism...though I'm not sure really sure who'd be helping who get a job in that case.
 

On the QB talk - it's all speculation until we get an idea of Who is making the decisions and What is their blueprint for the team going forward.

If it's a "Win now" situation, then you probably keep Cousins.

If it's "build for the next 3-5 years," then you probably trade Cousins and either go with a rookie QB or a place-holder QB for a year or two, because you would be trying to create lots of cap space for future moves.

And - if the brain trust decides they don't see a "franchise" QB in this year's draft, then potentially they could wait till 2023, try to build up draft picks, and trade up in '23 to go after one of the top QB prospects.

this defense is going to take a lot of work to overhaul. I really don't see this team in a position to contend in '22.
 

howeda7 said:
And his son is a leading candidate to be OC. We can't just go cold turkey on the nepotism...though I'm not sure really sure who'd be helping who get a job in that case.
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I guess it would be less problematic being on different sides of the ball.

Looking at Wade's wiki page, if he gets hired by the Vikings he will have coached for franchises in every current NFL Division except the AFC North.

Oilers (Titans) & Texans - AFC South
Saints & Falcons - NFC South
Eagles & Cowboys - NFC East
Broncos & Chargers - AFC West
Bills - AFC East
Rams - NFC West
 




Ogee Oglethorpe said:
Whether it's Corral, Willis, Pickett or whomever, I really kinda struggle with taking a QB in the first round, especially as high as #12, when it's a player who in most years would be the 5th or 6th best QB at best.

Vikings have some holes to fill, across the board. It'll be interesting to see how the new brain trust handles this offseason. I happened to look at The Athletic's top 75 NFL free agent list a day or two ago and there's reason for optimism. Surprisingly, it's a list loaded with interior OL and CB/DB, which are two areas the Vikings are in great need. Granted a lot of those players will be re-signed by their teams but not all of them. Hopefully they'll be in position to make a couple of additions in those areas.
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I'm sure there are metrics for this, but it sure seems way easier to find a really good OG in free agency than OT, and to a lesser extent C. It seems good centers stay on their team longer (just my perception, no info to back that up). For that reason, I wouldn't draft a OG in the first round or probably even the first half the second round. Get your above average OG in free agency and blow your picks trying to find two really good tackles and a good center. Most teams don't let good tackles go, so you will almost always have to grossly overpay to get one in free agency or via trade.
 

forever a gopher said:
There are almost always too many teams starved at QB for one or both of them to fall to 12. There are currently 4 teams ahead of pick 12 that need QB's for sure (Houston, Carolina, Denver, Washington), and another 2 that could possibly pull the trigger if they fall in love with a certain guy, but will probably have to wait at least one more year based on their current QB contract (Detroit, Atlanta). That doesn't include trades. Jacksonville and Detroit could trade away their pick since they probably won't use it on a QB and get a bunch more picks.

With that said, if Pickett or Corral "fall" to 12, I'd be all over that. If it doesn't work out, get rid of him and try again in a few years. Honestly, I wouldn't touch the Liberty kid. He might be amazing, just don't know that I'd blow a top 12 pick on a QB from a place like Liberty, right or wrong. I've said it before, but QB is just too important in the current day NFL - keep swinging on QB's until you find one. If Pickett and Corral are gone, I'd take Linderbaum, assuming he's still available. Bradbury is terrible and needs to go.
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Houston has Davis Mills that they picked up in the 3rd Round last year. He played well when given the chance this year.

Linderbaum is smaller than Bradbury, there's no way we should consider taking him as we would be getting the same type of center.
 

Are you one of the millions of home owners who haven’t refinanced yet? I’m Wesley Hoagland. I hate these ads
 






GophersInIowa said:
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Not terrible. I'd rather have him than Petine. He certainly comes from the Shanahan<McVay coaching tree. He was on the Super Bowl winning staffs with the Broncos in the 90's as a secondary or LB coach.
 

Wow, talk about a guy who has been all over the place.
 

that's something that a lot of fans don't think about. assistant coaches are gypsies. Imagine moving that many times - especially with a wife and kids.

yeah, the money is good, but you work crazy hours.

same is true for assistants in college, only for less money. you really have to love the game to want to do that for a living.
 


BleedGopher said:

Skol Vikes!!
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I really like the move. An inexperienced guy like KOC really needed to bring in someone for the defense where he could pretty much not have to worry about that side of the ball or take up much of his time. This should help him out a lot.
 


Gophers_4life said:
Still 4-3 base?
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Everybody's guessing 3-4, at least as a base defense.

The Vikes might have played 3-4 in 1984 under Floyd Reese and Les Steckel. They've been 4-3 ever since as far as I know. In 1985 they played a lot of what Bob Hollway called the "Eagle Orange" defense, which was a knockoff of the Bears' 46 defense, but it still featured four down linemen. In 1986, Burns hired Floyd Peters, who was a 4-3 guy, and the rest is history.
 

Bad Gopher said:
Everybody's guessing 3-4, at least as a base defense.

The Vikes might have played 3-4 in 1984 under Floyd Reese and Les Steckel. They've been 4-3 ever since as far as I know. In 1985 they played a lot of what Bob Hollway called the "Eagle Orange" defense, which was a knockoff of the Bears' 46 defense, but it still featured four down linemen. In 1986, Burns hired Floyd Peters, who was a 4-3 guy, and the rest is history.
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There will be no quest—f***ing about that. No f***ing questions about that!
 

If they do go to a 3-4, that means a fairly substantial revamp of the defensive personnel.

D-line has to be reworked. What do you do with Hunter - he's small for a 3-4 DE, but is he mobile enough to be an outside LB in a 3-4?

and Kendricks is small for a 3-4 inside LB.

so, if they're going 3-4, there is going to be a lot of turnover on the defense. that is not a 1-year project. could take 2 to 3 years to get sorted out.
 

I don't think the change to a 3-4 is as drastic as people make it seem. They would need to change some personnel, but it's not a total rebuild of the D.

Otomewo could make a great 3-4 DE, and Mafe a great 3-4 OLB, just saying.

Barr would also make a great 3-4 OLB, maybe they would think about keeping him at a reasonable price?

They could also try to deal Hunter and his massive cap hit next season. That and re-structuring Cousins would free up a ton of money.
 

short ornery norwegian said:
If they do go to a 3-4, that means a fairly substantial revamp of the defensive personnel.

D-line has to be reworked. What do you do with Hunter - he's small for a 3-4 DE, but is he mobile enough to be an outside LB in a 3-4?

and Kendricks is small for a 3-4 inside LB.

so, if they're going 3-4, there is going to be a lot of turnover on the defense. that is not a 1-year project. could take 2 to 3 years to get sorted out.
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We don't have a linebacker of worth on this squad.
 

This could arguably be a thread all on its own but I'll throw this out here...

Let's assume Cousins is being extended. Not just because KOC may or may not be a huge fan but you have to think about it from KOC's point of view; starting with a 100% unknown QB (more than likely anyway) to start your first gig as an NFL HC is not a HUGE recipe for long term success.

So assuming Cousins gets extended, what's the number going to be? I would think Cousins' number is going to be in the $35-$37M/year range. No incentive for taking much less; Shit, Dak is making upwards of $40M/year and Cousins is every bit as good as Dak, arguably a lot better in many areas (one of them being the ability to stay on the field).

What are they going to do with Cousins, make your prediction here...
 

Ogee Oglethorpe said:
This could arguably be a thread all on its own but I'll throw this out here...

Let's assume Cousins is being extended. Not just because KOC may or may not be a huge fan but you have to think about it from KOC's point of view; starting with a 100% unknown QB (more than likely anyway) to start your first gig as an NFL HC is not a HUGE recipe for long term success.

So assuming Cousins gets extended, what's the number going to be? I would think Cousins' number is going to be in the $35-$37M/year range. No incentive for taking much less; Shit, Dak is making upwards of $40M/year and Cousins is every bit as good as Dak, arguably a lot better in many areas (one of them being the ability to stay on the field).

What are they going to do with Cousins, make your prediction here...
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I think you're in the ballpark there. My guess would be a 2 year extension if it happens.
 

Ogee Oglethorpe said:
This could arguably be a thread all on its own but I'll throw this out here...

Let's assume Cousins is being extended. Not just because KOC may or may not be a huge fan but you have to think about it from KOC's point of view; starting with a 100% unknown QB (more than likely anyway) to start your first gig as an NFL HC is not a HUGE recipe for long term success.

So assuming Cousins gets extended, what's the number going to be? I would think Cousins' number is going to be in the $35-$37M/year range. No incentive for taking much less; Shit, Dak is making upwards of $40M/year and Cousins is every bit as good as Dak, arguably a lot better in many areas (one of them being the ability to stay on the field).

What are they going to do with Cousins, make your prediction here...
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If offered a first, they trade him. If not, they keep him.
 

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