Quarterback Position

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MaroonGold1

MaroonGold1

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Maybe I've missed it, but I haven't seen too much discussion on the QB position.

All of the stories this summer have been related to Leidner and his leadership qualities, taking the reigns, etc. That is all well and good, glad that he has stepped up... BUT, has he really proven himself to be a Big Ten QB? He was ok last year, accuracy numbers better than Nelson, but pretty fumble prone with not much in terms of pocket presence IMO. Now I realize he was a RS freshman, so I'll give him time... but did anyone else watch him last year and think he should be the unquestioned starter (knowing Nelson is gone) this season with no competition at all?

Is this an indictment on Strevler at all? Seems to me if he was anywhere near as good as people we're initially hoping, he'd at least be in the conversation with Leidner. Also, its pretty unlikely that Leidner can play the physical style he did last year and stay on the field all season, who gets the next look.. Rhoda?
 

MaroonGold1 said:
Maybe I've missed it, but I haven't seen too much discussion on the QB position.

All of the stories this summer have been related to Leidner and his leadership qualities, taking the reigns, etc. That is all well and good, glad that he has stepped up... BUT, has he really proven himself to be a Big Ten QB? He was ok last year, accuracy numbers better than Nelson, but pretty fumble prone with not much in terms of pocket presence IMO. Now I realize he was a RS freshman, so I'll give him time... but did anyone else watch him last year and think he should be the unquestioned starter (knowing Nelson is gone) this season with no competition at all?

Is this an indictment on Strevler at all? Seems to me if he was anywhere near as good as people we're initially hoping, he'd at least be in the conversation with Leidner. Also, its pretty unlikely that Leidner can play the physical style he did last year and stay on the field all season, who gets the next look.. Rhoda?
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From the sounds of things Leidner has been way ahead of everyone else in camp and has looked very good. Streveler is very fast and athletic but struggles with accuracy at times and throws a lot of ducks with his funky delivery, although he did have a very good day yesterday I guess.
 

It's a Pig Man! said:
From the sounds of things Leidner has been way ahead of everyone else in camp and has looked very good. Streveler is very fast and athletic but struggles with accuracy at times and throws a lot of ducks with his funky delivery, although he did have a very good day yesterday I guess.
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Streveler also had the thumb injury which kept him from passing for a couple of months after the spring practices ended.
 

From the sounds of it Nelson and Leidner were told they would continue to battle. Nelson decided he didn't want to and left. That left Leidner with the keys to the car this year. The battle is for #2 and the coaches are content with riding Leidner out this year as a 3rd year player in the program. They can't afford to burn other's redshirts and it seems obvious no one else is ready to play unless Leidner gets hurt. Have to think Leidner will get pulled early if the Gophers blow anyone out in the first four games.

Kill seem confident with what he has on Defense and Offense that it will hinder the team to shuffle QB's or have any controversy. IMO.
 

MaxyJR1 said:
From the sounds of it Nelson and Leidner were told they would continue to battle. Nelson decided he didn't want to and left. That left Leidner with the keys to the car this year. The battle is for #2 and the coaches are content with riding Leidner out this year as a 3rd year player in the program. They can't afford to burn other's redshirts and it seems obvious no one else is ready to play unless Leidner gets hurt. Have to think Leidner will get pulled early if the Gophers blow anyone out in the first four games.

Kill seem confident with what he has on Defense and Offense that it will hinder the team to shuffle QB's or have any controversy. IMO.
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Just to play devil's advocate here...You can look at Leidner's emergence two ways. We choose to focus on how Nelson didn't like the pressure so he left. At the same time, Leidner talks about being able to be a leader this year because he knows it's his team, etc. Often times in life, if someone in charge has to designate you the leader, you are then by definition, not one naturally. Why did Nelson have to leave for Leidner to step up? Doesn't the cream usually rise to the top on it's own?
 


Costa Rican Gopher said:
Just to play devil's advocate here...You can look at Leidner's emergence two ways. We choose to focus on how Nelson didn't like the pressure so he left. At the same time, Leidner talks about being able to be a leader this year because he knows it's his team, etc. Often times in life, if someone in charge has to designate you the leader, you are then by definition, not one naturally. Why did Nelson have to leave for Leidner to step up? Doesn't the cream usually rise to the top on it's own?
Click to expand...

To be fair it's tough to lead when you are on the bench half the time.
 



Yeah, it's an interesting story. If Leidner can come on this year and play pretty well, then this will have all worked out great. If he falters, some folks will be saying "They shoulda treated Nelson better."

To answer the OP, no I don't think most people thought he should, or would, be the unquestioned starter this year. But Nelson left and that was that. During the season last year, I was of the opinion that Nelson was better based on slightly better passing accuracy and a shiftier running style. But he was absolutely brutal in the Bowl game. It seems like the coaches have like Leidner better all along as the tougher kid, but that they felt Nelson was undeniably further along in QB development in 2012, so they pulled the RS on Nelson then.

Yeah, we've heard good things about Streveler, but there's also an obvious gap between Leidner & him. After that, I'm not sure who's third string - Rhoda? Apparently Jacques Perra has been good in practice, but I'm sure they'll redshirt him unless Leidner & Streveler go down and they feel Perra is clearly their best 3rd option.

Hopefully Leidner steps up. I'd like to see 3 key things from:
1. Reasonably accurate passing
2. Staying in the pocket long enough and not tucking-and-running if his first option isn't open
3. Holding the ball securely when running
If he can do those 3, I think we should have a pretty decent offense.
 



Golden Elephant said:
Yeah, it's an interesting story. If Leidner can come on this year and play pretty well, then this will have all worked out great. If he falters, some folks will be saying "They shoulda treated Nelson better."

To answer the OP, no I don't think most people thought he should, or would, be the unquestioned starter this year. But Nelson left and that was that. During the season last year, I was of the opinion that Nelson was better based on slightly better passing accuracy and a shiftier running style. But he was absolutely brutal in the Bowl game. It seems like the coaches have like Leidner better all along as the tougher kid, but that they felt Nelson was undeniably further along in QB development in 2012, so they pulled the RS on Nelson then.

Yeah, we've heard good things about Streveler, but there's also an obvious gap between Leidner & him. After that, I'm not sure who's third string - Rhoda? Apparently Jacques Perra has been good in practice, but I'm sure they'll redshirt him unless Leidner & Streveler go down and they feel Perra is clearly their best 3rd option.

Hopefully Leidner steps up. I'd like to see 3 key things from:
1. Reasonably accurate passing
2. Staying in the pocket long enough and not tucking-and-running if his first option isn't open
3. Holding the ball securely when running
If he can do those 3, I think we should have a pretty decent offense.
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I think the obvious gap between Leidner and Strevler is what worries me. I'm not trying to knock Leidner, he was only a freshman last year, but he didn't show me anything to think he should be the unquestioned starter this season.. even knowing what we know now (No Nelson). I guess we'll just have to wait and see when the games start, but lots of the talk has been focused on leadership, not actual on-field ability.
 

Mitch has a lot riding on his shoulders this season.

Hang on to the ball and hit the wide open receivers. That would be a start.
 

It is unfortunate that we have had so much attrition that our third string is either a redshirt freshman walk-on, a true freshman walk-on or a true freshman. Kind of more amazing is that the second string is a redshirt freshman. I wish Jerry had recruited a Juco QB to be a backup/ third string guy.

Looking back, it would have been nice if somebody stuck around even if they were not anointed starter. Mason's teams always had a few second string guys who hung around and competed (Mortenson, Maciejewski, a few others) even though they played very rarely.

Here is our QB attrition since 2010 (would be fifth year seniors if redshirted):

2010:
-Tom Parish. Had potential according to some. Left when Shortell passed him on the depth chart. Never resurfaced in college football for some reason.
-J.D. Pride. Never played at QB. Never really thought of as a possible QB at the D-1 level
2011:
-Dexter Foreman: See J.D. Pride. Add injuries.
-Max Shortell. This one hurts a bit. Played a lot and then transferred once it became clear Nelson and perhaps Leidner passed him. Now at Jacksonville State. Doesn't really fit Kill's scheme but a senior QB with experience would be a great thing to behind Leidner. It didn't really work out for Max either, as it looks he will be a back-up for JSU in his senior season.
2012:
-Philip Nelson. We all know the story here.

Losing all the QB recruits form 2010-2011 and half of 2012 leaves a gap that is hard to get out of.
 

Costa Rican Gopher said:
Just to play devil's advocate here...You can look at Leidner's emergence two ways. We choose to focus on how Nelson didn't like the pressure so he left. At the same time, Leidner talks about being able to be a leader this year because he knows it's his team, etc. Often times in life, if someone in charge has to designate you the leader, you are then by definition, not one naturally. Why did Nelson have to leave for Leidner to step up? Doesn't the cream usually rise to the top on it's own?
Click to expand...

To me, it seemed like the cream was starting to rise. Leidner appeared to be wrestling control away from Nelson last year and that might have been, in part, because he was demonstrating better leadership qualities. Also, sometimes people don't realize the leadership ability they have in them until they're given/forced to figure it out. It would seem (I'm not there every day so I don't know for sure) that Mitch has been handed the keys and isn't interested in giving them back. That can be incentive enough for him to find his style and go.
 



Good points Winnipeg. Since Weber it's really been musical chairs at QB.
 

station19 said:
Mitch has a lot riding on his shoulders this season.

Hang on to the ball and hit the wide open receivers. That would be a start.
Click to expand...

The way our O is built, that would make for a very good season. 8 or more wins again.
 

Winnipegopher said:
It is unfortunate that we have had so much attrition that our third string is either a redshirt freshman walk-on, a true freshman walk-on or a true freshman. Kind of more amazing is that the second string is a redshirt freshman. I wish Jerry had recruited a Juco QB to be a backup/ third string guy.

Looking back, it would have been nice if somebody stuck around even if they were not anointed starter. Mason's teams always had a few second string guys who hung around and competed (Mortenson, Maciejewski, a few others) even though they played very rarely.

Here is our QB attrition since 2010 (would be fifth year seniors if redshirted):

2010:
-Tom Parish. Had potential according to some. Left when Shortell passed him on the depth chart. Never resurfaced in college football for some reason.
-J.D. Pride. Never played at QB. Never really thought of as a possible QB at the D-1 level
2011:
-Dexter Foreman: See J.D. Pride. Add injuries.
-Max Shortell. This one hurts a bit. Played a lot and then transferred once it became clear Nelson and perhaps Leidner passed him. Now at Jacksonville State. Doesn't really fit Kill's scheme but a senior QB with experience would be a great thing to behind Leidner. It didn't really work out for Max either, as it looks he will be a back-up for JSU in his senior season.
2012:
-Philip Nelson. We all know the story here.

Losing all the QB recruits form 2010-2011 and half of 2012 leaves a gap that is hard to get out of.
Click to expand...

Definitely get the point about depth but that is a pretty sorry list from a talent standpoint. The QB situation is a little scary going into the year because while Leidner is clearly the #1 guy this is a system that really needs more then one reliable option at QB due to the amount the QB runs and the likelihood of the #1 guy going down with an injury at some point during the season. We know that Leidner is capable of running the offense but needs to take some big steps in his development at the position to really become a top notch player. After him we have no clue what we have in any of the other QB's on the roster.
 

MNVCGUY said:
Definitely get the point about depth but that is a pretty sorry list from a talent standpoint. The QB situation is a little scary going into the year because while Leidner is clearly the #1 guy this is a system that really needs more then one reliable option at QB due to the amount the QB runs and the likelihood of the #1 guy going down with an injury at some point during the season. We know that Leidner is capable of running the offense but needs to take some big steps in his development at the position to really become a top notch player. After him we have no clue what we have in any of the other QB's on the roster.
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Have to wonder if our qb will get less carries this year. Nice to have a clear cut #1 but having an 'equivalent' back-up would be nice also.
 

MNVCGUY said:
Definitely get the point about depth but that is a pretty sorry list from a talent standpoint. The QB situation is a little scary going into the year because while Leidner is clearly the #1 guy this is a system that really needs more then one reliable option at QB due to the amount the QB runs and the likelihood of the #1 guy going down with an injury at some point during the season. We know that Leidner is capable of running the offense but needs to take some big steps in his development at the position to really become a top notch player. After him we have no clue what we have in any of the other QB's on the roster.
Click to expand...

This is a carbon-copy of our QB situation last year
 

I don't think it's all that disheartening to hear there's a pretty big gap between Streveler and Leidner at this point. Leidner wasn't great last year but he gained valuable experience including starting a game in The Big House and almost leading a comeback in the bowl game. That is important to note. Another important factor to consider is, from what I understand, Streveler did not do much practicing last year due to his hand injury. Rhoda ran the scout team just about all year, someone correct me if I'm wrong on that. Leidner is the pretty obvious choice to me and the coaches saw that too.
 

MinneStoa said:
This is a carbon-copy of our QB situation last year
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Would you consider that to be a good thing or a bad thing?

It is similar but not a carbon copy. The general feeling last year was that Nelson and Leidner were very close from a talent standpoint. Doesn't seem to be that way this year with Leidner and Streveler. The fact that it is similar to last year doesn't really inspire a lot of confidence in me because our QB play last season didn't exactly set the world on fire.

Hopefully Mitch can be the guy and get the job done this season. If he can't it will be very interesting to see how it all shakes out with the guys behind him on the depth chart.
 


We'll never know, but......

What would the team dynamic have been if Nelson had returned? There have been suggestions that each QB had his supporters among the rest of the team. (possibly more supporting Leidner than Nelson). One could argue that the team is better off having a clear-cut starter - instead of a situation where (potentially) the team could have developed factions based on which QB was starting.

Something else we will probably never know: The Coaches have been raving about Leidner's leadership. Would we be hearing the same thing if Nelson was still on the roster? Are the coaches sincere, or are they just trying to pump up Leidner's confidence?

Join us tomorrow for another episode of "As the Gophers turn."
 

Costa Rican Gopher said:
Just to play devil's advocate here...You can look at Leidner's emergence two ways. We choose to focus on how Nelson didn't like the pressure so he left. At the same time, Leidner talks about being able to be a leader this year because he knows it's his team, etc. Often times in life, if someone in charge has to designate you the leader, you are then by definition, not one naturally. Why did Nelson have to leave for Leidner to step up? Doesn't the cream usually rise to the top on it's own?
Click to expand...

As a natural leader, I agree with your comment.
 

Costa Rican Gopher said:
Just to play devil's advocate here...You can look at Leidner's emergence two ways. We choose to focus on how Nelson didn't like the pressure so he left. At the same time, Leidner talks about being able to be a leader this year because he knows it's his team, etc. Often times in life, if someone in charge has to designate you the leader, you are then by definition, not one naturally. Why did Nelson have to leave for Leidner to step up? Doesn't the cream usually rise to the top on it's own?
Click to expand...

Since we are talking about a back up redshirt freshman, I don't think this rule applies.
 

Costa Rican Gopher said:
Just to play devil's advocate here...You can look at Leidner's emergence two ways. We choose to focus on how Nelson didn't like the pressure so he left. At the same time, Leidner talks about being able to be a leader this year because he knows it's his team, etc. Often times in life, if someone in charge has to designate you the leader, you are then by definition, not one naturally. Why did Nelson have to leave for Leidner to step up? Doesn't the cream usually rise to the top on it's own?
Click to expand...

The Nelson situation is a prime example of one way "the cream usually rises to the top". Some stick around and ride it out, some head for the hills. I'll butcher the numbers because it was a few years ago but I recall starting my freshman year with about 30-35 fellow freshmen (between scholly and walk-ons); looked around my senior year and of that group there were 8 of us left on the team. That's just the way it goes.

Leidner will be just fine I think. For a RS Sophomore, he's been around the program for quite a while now. He knows exactly what's expected of him and I think he'll respond.
 

MaxyJR1 said:
From the sounds of it Nelson and Leidner were told they would continue to battle. Nelson decided he didn't want to and left.
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Not really. PN9 said he needed to be the undisputed QB or he would leave and JK chose the latter.
 

WarriorGopher said:
To me, it seemed like the cream was starting to rise. Leidner appeared to be wrestling control away from Nelson last year
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Really? That's why they started Nelson in the bowl game and gave him opportunity after opportunity in that game?
 




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