Carlos Morris Dismissed

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3399 said:
It is hard for me to believe that the program isn't falling apart. You have a novice coach who is in over his head, several of his recruits have jus not worked out for various reasons, many of his players have digressed once they become part of the program, and they have not won a game in the Big Ten. It seems to me the wheels are not even on the cart anymore. They have long fallen off. Sad but true.

Anyone know why Amir Coffey hasn't been playing? Are we sure there isn't something going on there?
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In his first 3 years Pitino has had 4 recruits that didn't work out and finish their careers here - McNeil, Lofton, Martin, and Morris. In Tubby's first 3 years he had 6 players that didn't work out and finish their careers here - Royce White, Justin Cobbs, Devoe Joseph, Bryant Allen, Paul Carter, and Chip Armelin.

Players leave all the time regardless of school or coach. The program is not falling apart.
 

GopherWeatherGuy said:
In his first 3 years Pitino has had 4 recruits that didn't work out and finish their careers here - McNeil, Lofton, Martin, and Morris. In Tubby's first 3 years he had 6 players that didn't work out and finish their careers here - Royce White, Justin Cobbs, Devoe Joseph, Bryant Allen, Paul Carter, and Chip Armelin.

Players leave all the time regardless of school or coach. The program is not falling apart.
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I wouldn't really argue with your final point but counting Paul Carter probably means you have to count Jarvis Johnson. Both didn't work out because of health reasons.
 


3399 said:
It is hard for me to believe that the program isn't falling apart. You have a novice coach who is in over his head, several of his recruits have jus not worked out for various reasons, many of his players have digressed once they become part of the program, and they have not won a game in the Big Ten. It seems to me the wheels are not even on the cart anymore. They have long fallen off. Sad but true.

Anyone know why Amir Coffey hasn't been playing? Are we sure there isn't something going on there?
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Of the guys he recruited, who has regressed? Mason and Konate have gotten better and so have all four freshman.

Also, when I think of the wheels falling off, I think of chaos behind the scenes in the program. Things like guys being unhappy, not listening to the coaches, talking about transferring, etc. I don't think we know for sure if that is the case here.
 

It's never a good thing to have this happen with a few games left. But given his status and playing time, it's not surprising Pitino would take any crap from him.
 


GophersInIowa said:
Of the guys he recruited, who has regressed? Mason and Konate have gotten better and so have all four freshman.

Also, when I think of the wheels falling off, I think of chaos behind the scenes in the program. Things like guys being unhappy, not listening to the coaches, talking about transferring, etc. I don't think we know for sure if that is the case here.
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Well, basically every JuCo or transfer has gotten worse, for whatever that's worth. And half of his earlier freshman recruits haven't improved a ton. The recruits do get a bit more promising in growth in terms of this year's freshmen, Mason, and somewhat Konate, though. Gaston, Buggs (if you count him), Martin (gone), Nnwankno (sp) was a burned recruit. Plus there was that transfer that never even suited up because he got booted, right?
 

bemidjigopher said:
I'll just leave it this I get why Morris would've been mad, it's tough when you're losing and you're losing your PT, coach might not have as much invested in you anymore. If the tweets are true, unless Carlos crossed a line of no return I feel like this could've been worked out without kicking him off the team. Seems thin skinned to dismiss a guy because you got in an argument, but like I said maybe Morris said something that there's no coming back from.
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You sure are not giving coach any credit for trying to work out the situation. Don't you think Pitino would rather have this kept quiet and taken care of the situation internally? So, try assuming that coach tried, but in his mind he felt it was best if Morris left the team.


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bemidjigopher said:
I'll just leave it this I get why Morris would've been mad, it's tough when you're losing and you're losing your PT, coach might not have as much invested in you anymore. If the tweets are true, unless Carlos crossed a line of no return I feel like this could've been worked out without kicking him off the team. Seems thin skinned to dismiss a guy because you got in an argument, but like I said maybe Morris said something that there's no coming back from.
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We're you the person who mentioned Morris best friend dying? In any case, combine the grief of losing a loved one with the loss of basketball and I hope to God that someone comes alongside Morris and provides counseling. He needs some folks around him to help him focus, get his diploma and enjoy life again.
 

justthefacts said:
I wouldn't really argue with your final point but counting Paul Carter probably means you have to count Jarvis Johnson. Both didn't work out because of health reasons.
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Plus, if we're counting White (a guy who never wore a Gopher uniform), then we also have to count Nwankwo (a guy who never wore a Gopher uniform). Further, Chip Armelin's freshman season was Tubby's 4th at Minnesota, so he doesn't even belong in the "first 3 years" discussion. The actual count would be Pitino 6 - Smith 5 (not to mention the NCAA Tournament appearances count - Smith 2, Pitino 0 - further diluting an already weak and incorrect point).
 



GopherWeatherGuy said:
In his first 3 years Pitino has had 4 recruits that didn't work out and finish their careers here - McNeil, Lofton, Martin, and Morris. In Tubby's first 3 years he had 6 players that didn't work out and finish their careers here - Royce White, Justin Cobbs, Devoe Joseph, Bryant Allen, Paul Carter, and Chip Armelin.

Players leave all the time regardless of school or coach. The program is not falling apart.
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Bingo.

Morris is off the team. It's not the end of the world and the sky is not falling. Get a grip people it's a below average player that could play defense.

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dpodoll68 said:
Plus, if we're counting White (a guy who never wore a Gopher uniform), then we also have to count Nwankwo (a guy who never wore a Gopher uniform). Further, Chip Armelin's freshman season was Tubby's 4th at Minnesota, so he doesn't even belong in the "first 3 years" discussion. The actual count would be Pitino 6 - Smith 5 (not to mention the NCAA Tournament appearances count - Smith 2, Pitino 0 - further diluting an already weak and incorrect point).
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That's BS. White would have worn a Gopher uniform had he not committed a crime. Nwankwo was a totally different situation in being denied before he had a chance to put on a Gopher uniform. Armelin was Tubby's 3rd recruiting class. Not counting Hoffarber and Nolen as Tubby's first class because they were already committed to Monson.
 

GopherWeatherGuy said:
White would have worn a Gopher uniform had he not committed a crime. Nwankwo was a totally different situation in being denied before he had a chance to put on a Gopher uniform.
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Both were slotted for scholarship spots and never played due to circumstances outside of the coach's control. If you're going to count one, you have to count the other.

GopherWeatherGuy said:
Armelin was Tubby's 3rd recruiting class. Not counting Hoffarber and Nolen as Tubby's first class because they were already committed to Monson.
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By your standard, Pitino's 3rd recruiting class is still in high school and hasn't even had the opportunity to flame out yet. So how does it make sense to count that against Tubby but not against Pitino?
 

dpodoll68 said:
By your standard, Pitino's 3rd recruiting class is still in high school and hasn't even had the opportunity to flame out yet. So how does it make sense to count that against Tubby but not against Pitino?
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Wrong again. Pitino inherited 0 recruits from Tubby so his first class has to count. Teague ran off Ellis and Foster (rightfully so) before Pitino was hired. So Pitino has had 3 classes, but his first class was pieced together with late recruits thanks to Tubby leaving nothing behind.
 



RickDornsby said:
Well, basically every JuCo or transfer has gotten worse, for whatever that's worth. And half of his earlier freshman recruits haven't improved a ton. The recruits do get a bit more promising in growth in terms of this year's freshmen, Mason, and somewhat Konate, though. Gaston, Buggs (if you count him), Martin (gone), Nnwankno (sp) was a burned recruit. Plus there was that transfer that never even suited up because he got booted, right?
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I would argue that King and Morris are pretty much the same players they've always been. Mathieu definitely was worse his senior year compared to junior. Haven't improved a ton and regressed are two different things though. Some have developed better than others but that doesn't meant they have regressed (he said digressed but I am assuming meant regressed). Just don't think people need to exaggerate things to make their point.
 

dpodoll68 said:
Both were slotted for scholarship spots and never played due to circumstances outside of the coach's control. If you're going to count one, you have to count the other.
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One difference is that White used up a scholarship and Nwankwo didn't.

I can't remember, did we get Murphy after Nwankwo was released? Or was his scholarship used for one of the transfers?
 

Wow! All the anger towards Morris is over the top.

My hope is that young Mr. Morris can put things behind him, move ahead, take advantage of his scholarship and get a degree. If I remember right, he came from a tough childhood and needs to stay away from that environment. There is always a concern for young people who struggle and the hope is that they have people around to help and reach out rather than undesireables.

Whatever happened must have been serious enough to warrant his dismissal. I hope Pitino and staff will be there to assist him as he stays in school.

Good luck Carlos!!
 

I wish him well. It is too bad it ended this way. I would guess the coaching staff and all involved feel the same way. Maybe Carlos can find a spot over seas and play some more basketball and by all means get a degree as well.
 

GopherWeatherGuy said:
Wrong again. Pitino inherited 0 recruits from Tubby so his first class has to count. Teague ran off Ellis and Foster (rightfully so) before Pitino was hired. So Pitino has had 3 classes, but his first class was pieced together with late recruits thanks to Tubby leaving nothing behind.
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Ha, your delusion and hatred for Tubby know no bounds. It has been less than 3 calendar years since Pitino was hired. Armelin wasn't even on the radar when Tubby was at just under 3 calendar years. His last season was Tubby's 5th. Pitino won't even get a 5th season.
 



Short of Morris quitting I don't understand it, maybe he did quit, if not Pitino would have to be pretty thin skinned to cut him from the team because of a confrontation at this point, suspend him for a game, work through it, people have disagreements, that is part of being a manager, cutting him is taking the easy way out in my mind and will be in the back of every players mind as long as they are at Minnesota.
 

jovs said:
Short of Morris quitting I don't understand it, maybe he did quit, if not Pitino would have to be pretty thin skinned to cut him from the team because of a confrontation at this point, suspend him for a game, work through it, people have disagreements, that is part of being a manager, cutting him is taking the easy way out in my mind and will be in the back of every players mind as long as they are at Minnesota.
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That's a lot of commas.
 

dpodoll68 said:
Ha, your delusion and hatred for Tubby know no bounds. It has been less than 3 calendar years since Pitino was hired. Armelin wasn't even on the radar when Tubby was at just under 3 calendar years. His last season was Tubby's 5th. Pitino won't even get a 5th season.
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I don't have any hatred for Tubby and have never said that. He earned his firing by mailing it in when it came to recruiting his last two years. No one is surprised that he's turned around Texas Tech including me. He'll keep them as a fringe NCAA tournament team, and nothing more just like he did with the Gophers.

Would I rather have this year's O-fer Gopher lineup of promising freshman and sophomores or the would be upperclassmen of Buggs, Wally Ellenson, Alex Foster, and Alvin Ellis that would be even worse than what Rutgers has been trotting on the court this season?

I really hope you don't need me to actually answer that question. Or maybe you do because you've stated in the past that Buggs would somehow be the best player on a non power 5 NCAA tournament team, which is one of the most preposterous statements I have ever heard.
 

GopherWeatherGuy said:
I don't have any hatred for Tubby and have never said that. He earned his firing by mailing it in when it came to recruiting his last two years. No one is surprised that he's turned around Texas Tech including me. He'll keep them as a fringe NCAA tournament team, and nothing more just like he did with the Gophers.

Would I rather have this year's O-fer Gopher lineup of promising freshman and sophomores or the would be upperclassmen of Buggs, Wally Ellenson, Alex Foster, and Alvin Ellis that would be even worse than what Rutgers has been trotting on the court this season?

I really hope you don't need me to actually answer that question. Or maybe you do because you've stated in the past that Buggs would somehow be the best player on a non power 5 NCAA tournament team, which is one of the most preposterous statements I have ever heard.
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Tubby went into a worse situation at Texas Tech than he left Pitino at Minnesota....and now after three years his team is way better at Texas Tech than the Gophers....but somehow...if Tubby was still here...the Gophers would even be worse than Rutgers...

Yeah that makes a ton of sense....
 

Bayfieldgopher said:
Wow! All the anger towards Morris is over the top.
Good luck Carlos!!
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I wouldn't say it's anger. I'm not angry at Morris - I just don't think he was a very productive player - took bad shots, rarely passed the ball, not a great defensive player, etc. And, in the end, when faced with adversity, he (apparently) got into a blow-up with the coach and got kicked off the team.

That's why I said addition by subtraction. The (relatively few) minutes Morris was playing will now go to a younger player who has a better chance of being productive.

Yes, it's too bad to see this happen to a senior - but Morris certainly has to share some of the responsibility for his situation. He's not the only senior in the world who saw his playing time cut - but others handled the situation better than he did.
 

jovs said:
Short of Morris quitting I don't understand it, maybe he did quit, if not Pitino would have to be pretty thin skinned to cut him from the team because of a confrontation at this point, suspend him for a game, work through it, people have disagreements, that is part of being a manager, cutting him is taking the easy way out in my mind and will be in the back of every players mind as long as they are at Minnesota.
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Holy crap. Wayyyyy too many assumptions, conjecture, and misstatements to even begin working through this one
 

ethomasp31 said:
Tubby went into a worse situation at Texas Tech than he left Pitino at Minnesota....and now after three years his team is way better at Texas Tech than the Gophers....but somehow...if Tubby was still here...the Gophers would even be worse than Rutgers...

Yeah that makes a ton of sense....
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Exactly. Plus, there is no doubt in my mind that Buggs would be one of the better players in the SWAC. He starts in the Big Ten. The meteorologist can call it "preposterous" if he wants, but I take it as a virtual certainty if he disagrees, given that he's shown little evidence of knowing anything about basketball (or football). Morris is just the latest cherry atop the gigantic sundae of evidence that Pitino is in way, way over his head and has no business being anywhere near the Big Ten.
 

GopherWeatherGuy said:
I don't have any hatred for Tubby and have never said that. He earned his firing by mailing it in when it came to recruiting his last two years. No one is surprised that he's turned around Texas Tech including me. He'll keep them as a fringe NCAA tournament team, and nothing more just like he did with the Gophers.

Would I rather have this year's O-fer Gopher lineup of promising freshman and sophomores or the would be upperclassmen of Buggs, Wally Ellenson, Alex Foster, and Alvin Ellis that would be even worse than what Rutgers has been trotting on the court this season?

I really hope you don't need me to actually answer that question. Or maybe you do because you've stated in the past that Buggs would somehow be the best player on a non power 5 NCAA tournament team, which is one of the most preposterous statements I have ever heard.
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Oh, and I love the insinuation that being a fringe Tournament team (fringe Tournament teams don't win games in the Tournament, btw) is somehow worse than struggling to win a single game in the Big Ten in year 3.
 

dpodoll68 said:
Exactly. Plus, there is no doubt in my mind that Buggs would be one of the better players in the SWAC. He starts in the Big Ten. The meteorologist can call it "preposterous" if he wants, but I take it as a virtual certainty if he disagrees, given that he's shown little evidence of knowing anything about basketball (or football). Morris is just the latest cherry atop the gigantic sundae of evidence that Pitino is in way, way over his head and has no business being anywhere near the Big Ten.
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It doesn't matter there is no way to know what would have happened if such and such didn't happen. Second guessing is an easy way to waste a life away. lets not do this here again guys. (not just you dpodoll just you were the most recent post)
 

Tim1406 said:
It doesn't matter there is no way to know what would have happened if such and such didn't happen. Second guessing is an easy way to waste a life away. lets not do this here again guys. (not just you dpodoll just you were the most recent post)
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Second-guessing implies that you know only with the benefit of hindsight. I said before it even happened that firing Tubby without a legitimate replacement locked in was a colossal mistake. Tubby was nothing great here, but far preferable to the current situation. Firing someone just because you want to, without a plan in place, is the kind of decision that gets you the worst season in school history.
 

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