Updates About Penn State Scandal UPDATED 6/12: PSU has spent $45.9M on scandal

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Dr.Don said:
And stop all of the laughter?
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Maybe I should have said "Not taking sides here or saying that you are wrong but in situations like this sometimes it is best to just have a beer."

Opps! Poor choice of words in this case. How about "just have a soft drink"?. Anyway it will be interesting to see what they do. Somebody should put up a poll to see what people think the NCAA is going to do. The death penatly will also have negative impact on the Big Ten. Therefore I would be interested to know what people think the impact would be on the Big Ten.
 

dpodoll68 said:
So you think the NCAA would place sanctions on the sociology department? Make them lose academic scholarships over a few years?
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Sadly, I sense Your response was serious and not a poor attempt at humor. I've never seen an issue in sports where so many folks can't see the big picture. The NCAA should and will impose penalties for an blatant lack of institutional control protecting the football program. The statue was taken down on a Sunday morning flying under the radar of the Aurora tragedy.PSU football just got knocked back to Indiana status and won't be relevant for decades.
 

46Gophers said:
Well Jerry was half right with what he referred to himself as. I wonder if the NCAA is considering any sanctions against PSU for all of this? You hear about schools being looked at for "lack of institutional control" and coaches looking the other way on issues. At PSU, from the football program up, they did not keep a pedophile off campus and away from children and continued abuse occurred right under their noses.
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Well despite what some of your opinions were early on based on your responses to my above post (on 6/23), it looks like the criminal justice system will be taking care of the individuals wrapped up in the mess and the NCAA will be taking care of their member institution that was totally out of control. Now onto the civil suits against PSU.
 

From dpo....

"First of all, feel free to eat my ass with a spoon.

Secondly, I readily admit whenever I am wrong. It's just so infrequent that you may not remember reading those posts.

Thirdly, let's see how this settles out before you jump down my throat. Care to make a signature bet on whether or not Penn St. sees any NCAA sanctions?"

Looks like he'll have to admit he was wrong and donate $50 to Gopherhole. Wondering if Stan ever ate dpo's ass with a spoon.
 

dpodoll68 said:
You are very wrong. I said that they shouldn't take action, not that they won't take action. I'm not at all surprised that the NCAA is sticking its nose where it doesn't belong. This is so stupid.
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Then why did you make a public wager that PSU would not be penalized?
 


Did anybody see the stupid asses taking pictures this AM with the statue before it was taken down. Pathetic! Now on with the Death Penalty and removal from the Big Ten. I know unlikely the Big Ten will do that...I can only hope!
 

Replacement Gopher said:
Then why did you make a public wager that PSU would not be penalized?
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It was a pretty dense move on my part, I'll admit. I never thought the NCAA wouldn't be stupid enough to egregiously overstep their bounds. I also almost never bet for money, so my best explanation is temporary insanity. Nonetheless, if the NCAA idiotically pushes forward with punishments, I will donate the $50 as wagered.
 

Replacement Gopher said:
From dpo....

"First of all, feel free to eat my ass with a spoon.

Secondly, I readily admit whenever I am wrong. It's just so infrequent that you may not remember reading those posts.

Thirdly, let's see how this settles out before you jump down my throat. Care to make a signature bet on whether or not Penn St. sees any NCAA sanctions?"

Looks like he'll have to admit he was wrong and donate $50 to Gopherhole. Wondering if Stan ever ate dpo's ass with a spoon.
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I can confirm I never ate dpo's ass with a spoon.
 




Paterno family statement on statue removal

Here's entire statement from the Paterno family:

"Tearing down the statue of Joe Paterno does not serve the victims of Jerry Sandusky's horrible crimes or help heal the Penn State Community. We believe the only way to help the victims is to uncover the full truth. The Freeh report, though it has been accepted by the media as the definitive conclusion on the Sandusky scandal, is the equivalent of an indictment -- a charging document written by a prosecutor -- and an incomplete and unofficial one at that.

"To those who truly want to know the truth about Sandusky, it should matter that Joe Paterno has never had a hearing; that his legal counsel has never been able to interview key witnesses, all of whom are represented by lawyers and therefore unavailable; that there has never been an opportunity to review critical evidence which has not been made public; that selective evidence and the opinion of Mr Freeh is treated as the equivalent of a fair trial. Despite this obviously flawed and one-sided presentation, the University believes it must acquiesce and accept that Joe Paterno has been given a fair and complete hearing. We think the better course would have been for the University to take a strong stand in support of due process so that the complete truth can be uncovered.

"It is not the University's responsibility to defend or protect Joe Paterno. But they at least should have acknowledged that important legal cases are still pending and that the record on Joe Paterno, the Board and other key players is far from complete."

http://espn.go.com/blog/bigten/post/_/id/53607/paterno-family-statement-on-statue-removal

Go Gophers!!
 

BleedGopher said:
Meanwhile, that already weak BT division is now just two teams: Ohio State and Wisconsin. Ohio State on probation this year (thus eliminating them from the BT championship game) and now PSU likely to suffer a miserable 3-5 year stretch. Unreal.
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Agreed.

Surreal!

The gods must be Badger fans.
 

Even though it is likely moot, I guess I am still not convinced this situation is, or should be, outside the purview of the NCAA. People have mentioned "lack of institutional control" but it seems to me that this is a nearly worst case example of such. It would appear that Paterno ran the Athletic Department at PSU and, in matters affecting the football team, ran PSU itself. Discipline issues would appear to have been handled exclusively by Paterno (http://www.cnn.com/2012/07/15/us/triponey-paterno-penn-state/index.html) even if in violation of PSU internal code of conduct. Why do people feel this is not sufficient for the NCAA to act? Is it because it is not specific to a particular player or situation?

Another point that is made is that the people responsible are being punished (or dead) so who are we really punishing? My question to this is, how do we know all the issues have been uncovered? Do we really know what skeletons the PSU football closet may have accumulated over Paterno's rule? I don't mean to sound like an alarmist but being able to operate with complete impunity tends to skew one's perspective. Being able to do so for almost a lifetime is likely to have some negative repercussions.
 




I understand that people have a visceral reaction to the heinous nature of the crimes involved in this case, BUT...........

I still think the NCAA is heading down a very slippery slope. They seem to be expanding the definition of "lack of institutional control" far beyond how it has been used in the past.

There are no recruiting violations in this case, no improper benefits to athletes, no shoe boxes full of cash here.

This case involves the PSU FB program in an indirect manner. (Yes, I know the argument that Sandusky's actions were covered up to protect the program.) But I don't believe it was done to gain any competitive advantage - more to avoid negative publicity.

My preferred solution: Penn State stays in B1G on a probationary basis; postseason ban for X # of years; loss of X# of scholarships for X# of years; AND - drop the financial hammer on the program - for certain # of years TBD, Penn State Forfeits all or part of its revenue from BTN, National TV contracts, and any share of revenue from other conference teams in BCS playoffs or bowl games.
In other words, handicap the program, but don't destroy it.

I'm as disgusted by Sandusky as anyone else, and extremely disappointed in the actions that Paterno and the PSU higher-ups took to cover this up, but I still think people are over-reacting in their desire to wreak vengeance on Penn State. Paterno's dead; the other PSU higher-ups are likely going to wind up in prison, and the University has a stain on its reputation that may never leave. What more do you want - blood?
 

Ironic?

BleedGopher said:
Paterno family statement on statue removal

Here's entire statement from the Paterno family:

"Tearing down the statue of Joe Paterno does not serve the victims of Jerry Sandusky's horrible crimes or help heal the Penn State Community. We believe the only way to help the victims is to uncover the full truth. The Freeh report, though it has been accepted by the media as the definitive conclusion on the Sandusky scandal, is the equivalent of an indictment -- a charging document written by a prosecutor -- and an incomplete and unofficial one at that.

"To those who truly want to know the truth about Sandusky, it should matter that Joe Paterno has never had a hearing; that his legal counsel has never been able to interview key witnesses, all of whom are represented by lawyers and therefore unavailable; that there has never been an opportunity to review critical evidence which has not been made public; that selective evidence and the opinion of Mr Freeh is treated as the equivalent of a fair trial. Despite this obviously flawed and one-sided presentation, the University believes it must acquiesce and accept that Joe Paterno has been given a fair and complete hearing. We think the better course would have been for the University to take a strong stand in support of due process so that the complete truth can be uncovered.

"It is not the University's responsibility to defend or protect Joe Paterno. But they at least should have acknowledged that important legal cases are still pending and that the record on Joe Paterno, the Board and other key players is far from complete."

http://espn.go.com/blog/bigten/post/_/id/53607/paterno-family-statement-on-statue-removal

Go Gophers!!
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I would have to say from a due process stand point there is some validity to the comments above. But I do find it quite ironic that Joe Paterno's family is raising this since Joe didn't allow due process when it came to issues regarding the football program and the players. As a result of the president of the school and the board's failure to address this with Joe, Penn State is now facing a crisis. You might call it karma.
 

short ornery norwegian said:
I understand that people have a visceral reaction to the heinous nature of the crimes involved in this case, BUT...........

I still think the NCAA is heading down a very slippery slope. They seem to be expanding the definition of "lack of institutional control" far beyond how it has been used in the past.

There are no recruiting violations in this case, no improper benefits to athletes, no shoe boxes full of cash here.

This case involves the PSU FB program in an indirect manner. (Yes, I know the argument that Sandusky's actions were covered up to protect the program.) But I don't believe it was done to gain any competitive advantage - more to avoid negative publicity.

My preferred solution: Penn State stays in B1G on a probationary basis; postseason ban for X # of years; loss of X# of scholarships for X# of years; AND - drop the financial hammer on the program - for certain # of years TBD, Penn State Forfeits all or part of its revenue from BTN, National TV contracts, and any share of revenue from other conference teams in BCS playoffs or bowl games.
In other words, handicap the program, but don't destroy it.

I'm as disgusted by Sandusky as anyone else, and extremely disappointed in the actions that Paterno and the PSU higher-ups took to cover this up, but I still think people are over-reacting in their desire to wreak vengeance on Penn State. Paterno's dead; the other PSU higher-ups are likely going to wind up in prison, and the University has a stain on its reputation that may never leave. What more do you want - blood?
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It's not the lack of institutional control anymore. The NCAA Executive Board has moved and they have broad authority to do so. I highly suggest you all read the Twitter feed of @John_infante because I don't feel like posting everything he's said.
 

I found this in an ESPN article - discusses how the action by the NCAA in this case is unprecedented.

former Committee on Infractions chairman and current Division I Appeals Committee member told ESPN.com's Andy Katz the NCAA's penalizing of an institution and program for immoral and criminal behavior also breaks new ground. The former chair, who has been involved with the NCAA for nearly three decades, said he couldn't use his name on the record since the case could come before him and the committee he still serves on in an appeals process. "This is unique and this kind of power has never been tested or tried," the former chair said. "It's unprecedented to have this extensive power. This has nothing to do with the purpose of the infractions process. Nevertheless, somehow (the NCAA president and executive board) have taken it on themselves to be a commissioner and to penalize a school for improper conduct."

NCAA presidents past and present have made a point of saying they are not akin to a commissioner in professional sports and don't have the power to penalize players, coaches or schools independently.
The former chair said the only "rule" that the NCAA could be holding onto here is a lack of institutional control.
"I would be surprised if they're treating this as simply a lack of institutional control under the rules," the former chair said. "Because then that would technically go through the committee."

The chair said that the NCAA is choosing to deal with a case that is outside the traditional rules or violations. He said this case does not fall within the basic fundamental purpose of NCAA regulations.
"The purpose of the NCAA is to keep a level playing field among schools and to make sure they use proper methods through scholarships and etcetera," the chair said. "This is not a case that would normally go through the process. It has nothing to do with a level playing field. It has nothing to do with whether Penn State gets advantages over other schools in recruiting or in the number of coaches or things that we normally deal with."

The former chair said as an example the NCAA didn't get involved in the murder of Yeardley Love, a women's lacrosse player at Virginia, by her former boyfriend, a male lacrosse player at Virginia.

"The real question is whether or not under the overall rules and regulations of the NCAA do those in charge take action when it doesn't fall within the scope and realm of the normal infractions process," the former chair said. "This has nothing to do with a level playing field or competition. The NCAA is a voluntary organization and the schools sign on to be bound by the NCAA rules and regulations."

The chair added that the only connection to athletics was that the department was lenient to Sandusky and that some of his crimes were committed at the Penn State football facility.

"But this has nothing to do with NCAA business," the former chair said. "This is new. If they're going to deal with situations of this kind that have nothing to do with the games of who plays and so on and rather deal with members of the athletic department who act immorally or criminally then it opens up the door to other cases."

The NCAA, the chair said, didn't get involved in punishing the school for criminal behavior.

"The criminal courts are perfectly capable of handling these situations," the former chair said. "This is a new phase and a new thing. They are getting into bad behavior that are somehow connected to those who work in the athletic department. "This is an important precedent. And it should be taken with extreme care."
 

dpodoll68 said:
It was a pretty dense move on my part, I'll admit. I never thought the NCAA wouldn't be stupid enough to egregiously overstep their bounds. I also almost never bet for money, so my best explanation is temporary insanity. Nonetheless, if the NCAA idiotically pushes forward with punishments, I will donate the $50 as wagered.
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I bet this just kills that inflated ego! Nice to see that you admit making "pretty dense" moves\comments! That is progress for DPO.
 

dpo: "I readily admit whenever I am wrong."

So were you wrong, or merely temporarily insane as you have suggested?
 


short ornery norwegian said:
I understand that people have a visceral reaction to the heinous nature of the crimes involved in this case, BUT...........

I still think the NCAA is heading down a very slippery slope. They seem to be expanding the definition of "lack of institutional control" far beyond how it has been used in the past.

There are no recruiting violations in this case, no improper benefits to athletes, no shoe boxes full of cash here.

This case involves the PSU FB program in an indirect manner. (Yes, I know the argument that Sandusky's actions were covered up to protect the program.) But I don't believe it was done to gain any competitive advantage - more to avoid negative publicity.

My preferred solution: Penn State stays in B1G on a probationary basis; postseason ban for X # of years; loss of X# of scholarships for X# of years; AND - drop the financial hammer on the program - for certain # of years TBD, Penn State Forfeits all or part of its revenue from BTN, National TV contracts, and any share of revenue from other conference teams in BCS playoffs or bowl games.
In other words, handicap the program, but don't destroy it.

I'm as disgusted by Sandusky as anyone else, and extremely disappointed in the actions that Paterno and the PSU higher-ups took to cover this up, but I still think people are over-reacting in their desire to wreak vengeance on Penn State. Paterno's dead; the other PSU higher-ups are likely going to wind up in prison, and the University has a stain on its reputation that may never leave. What more do you want - blood?
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Isn't having a strong reputation a competitive advantage with regards to football? It's a lot easier to get top recruits when you talk about national championships and such instead of talking about your programs lack of control when it comes to reporting child abuse.
 

gopher_alum_2005 said:
Isn't having a strong reputation a competitive advantage with regards to football? It's a lot easier to get top recruits when you talk about national championships and such instead of talking about your programs lack of control when it comes to reporting child abuse.
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It is ten times easier to take moral high ground and preach with compassionate and emotional messages.
 


short ornery norwegian said:
I found this in an ESPN article - discusses how the action by the NCAA in this case is unprecedented.

former Committee on Infractions chairman and current Division I Appeals Committee member told ESPN.com's Andy Katz the NCAA's penalizing of an institution and program for immoral and criminal behavior also breaks new ground. The former chair, who has been involved with the NCAA for nearly three decades, said he couldn't use his name on the record since the case could come before him and the committee he still serves on in an appeals process. "This is unique and this kind of power has never been tested or tried," the former chair said. "It's unprecedented to have this extensive power. This has nothing to do with the purpose of the infractions process. Nevertheless, somehow (the NCAA president and executive board) have taken it on themselves to be a commissioner and to penalize a school for improper conduct."



"The real question is whether or not under the overall rules and regulations of the NCAA do those in charge take action when it doesn't fall within the scope and realm of the normal infractions process," the former chair said. "This has nothing to do with a level playing field or competition. The NCAA is a voluntary organization and the schools sign on to be bound by the NCAA rules and regulations."

The chair added that the only connection to athletics was that the department was lenient to Sandusky and that some of his crimes were committed at the Penn State football facility.

"But this has nothing to do with NCAA business," the former chair said. "This is new. If they're going to deal with situations of this kind that have nothing to do with the games of who plays and so on and rather deal with members of the athletic department who act immorally or criminally then it opens up the door to other cases."

The NCAA, the chair said, didn't get involved in punishing the school for criminal behavior.

"The criminal courts are perfectly capable of handling these situations," the former chair said. "This is a new phase and a new thing. They are getting into bad behavior that are somehow connected to those who work in the athletic department. "This is an important precedent. And it should be taken with extreme care."
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Good read, thanks for posting. Pretty much what I have been saying all along.

Meanwhile, the penalties will be announced tomorrow 8:00 AM Central time. Sounds as though they are going to be very severe. I'm guessing loss of scholarships and post season ban(among other penalties) for at least 5 yrs-maybe up to 10 yr.

Anyone else care to speculate.
 



Besides of course all the victims I really feel bad for the Paterno kids. They will now be looked at differently due to their family name and fathers wrong boings - They don't deserve that. It will also be hard for them to hear their dad get bashed for the rest of their lives. Sad.
 



GoAUpher said:
It will certainly be a backdrop to their season. But it's already been the backdrop to their offseason and yet recruiting is unaffected. If recruiting falters, it's much more likely to be b/c PSU sucks on the field or b/c O'Brien turns out the be a crappy HC.
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Still believe recruiting will falter only because the product on the field is bad?
 

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