UPDATED 6/2: Joey King a Gopher, on full scholarship!

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BigGopherFan said:
Right. Vette dominated after several years of seasoning and Tucker was a top-tier player as well (at MSU-Moorhead) after having a less than dominant season at Winona State. Either way, most Division I transfers to Division II do not dominate, or even average double-figures in scoring. Many will, but more won't. Again, I'm just confused by the comment that an all-freshman -player in the MVC is too good for Division II, which is simply ridiculous. There are players like King that have had a moderate level of success at Division I and transferred to Division II and haven't dominated.

Look at a guy like P'Allen Stinnett. Out of high school he was a 4 star recruit, signed with Creighton, played with the Jays and become all-MVC by his sophomore season. He eventually transferred to Division II Missouri Western and was the second leading scorer -- ON HIS TEAM! He did well (15 ppg, 3.8 rpg), but he wasn't "too good" for Division II and didn't dominate.
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He is too good because he will have better offers. Are all Division 1 players better than all Division 2 players? Nope. But IN GENERAL, good players in the MVC are better than good players at Winona State. Like typically, players for Alabama are better than players for Central Michigan. However, the #1 pick in the NFL draft this year went to Central Michigan.

I think you're focusing too much on the "too good" comment that someone made. You should think of it more like "good enough to do better". If you're good enough to be an effective player in the MVC than you should play there and not go to Winona State. It's a higer level of basketball.
 

Bob_Loblaw said:
He is too good because he will have better offers. Are all Division 1 players better than all Division 2 players? Nope. But IN GENERAL, good players in the MVC are better than good players at Winona State. Like typically, players for Alabama are better than players for Central Michigan. However, the #1 pick in the NFL draft this year went to Central Michigan.

I think you're focusing too much on the "too good" comment that someone made. You should think of it more like "good enough to do better". If you're good enough to be an effective player in the MVC than you should play there and not go to Winona State. It's a higer level of basketball.
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You bring up great points. I think you're right.
 

Thought this was interesting:

Jeff Wald ‏@jrwald7
If the reports are true that Eastview's Joey King wants to transfer to the #Gophers, kiss Tyus Jones goodbye; they'd never play together

TC ‏@TJC_612
@jrwald7 what's the story there?

Jeff Wald ‏@jrwald7
@TJC_612 HS rivals and let's just say they're not exactly friends. Pitino wants King to walk-on from what I've heard.

Jeff Wald is apparently a WCCO guy who writes a St. Thomas Athletics blog if that gives him any credibility.

Some other tweets:

Amelia Rayno ‏@AmeliaRayno
Update on King: his former HS coach, Mark Gerber, says that no schools have reached out to him yet. #Gophers http://www.startribune.com/sports/blogs/207244361.html …

The Gopher Report ‏@TheGopherReport
After finishing his final exams, King will be in MN with his family before making decisions about next year.

The Gopher Report ‏@TheGopherReport
Eastview coach tells me that "Joey has not contacted nor has been contacted by any other schools." Busy studying and taking finals.

Darren Wolfson ‏@DarrenWolfson
FIU transfer Malik Smith is telling people that the #Gophers have offered. He's seeking a waiver to be eligible right away wherever he goes.

PiPress Gophers Now ‏@GophersNow
@RyanJamesMN Nice frame (6-9, 230), athleticism and skill for his size. I always liked Joey King's potential.
 

RoyalGopher said:
Thought this was interesting:

Jeff Wald ‏@jrwald7
If the reports are true that Eastview's Joey King wants to transfer to the #Gophers, kiss Tyus Jones goodbye; they'd never play together

TC ‏@TJC_612
@jrwald7 what's the story there?

Jeff Wald ‏@jrwald7
@TJC_612 HS rivals and let's just say they're not exactly friends. Pitino wants King to walk-on from what I've heard.

Jeff Wald is apparently a WCCO guy who writes a St. Thomas Athletics blog if that gives him any credibility.

Some other tweets:

Amelia Rayno ‏@AmeliaRayno
Update on King: his former HS coach, Mark Gerber, says that no schools have reached out to him yet. #Gophers http://www.startribune.com/sports/blogs/207244361.html …

The Gopher Report ‏@TheGopherReport
After finishing his final exams, King will be in MN with his family before making decisions about next year.

The Gopher Report ‏@TheGopherReport
Eastview coach tells me that "Joey has not contacted nor has been contacted by any other schools." Busy studying and taking finals.

Darren Wolfson ‏@DarrenWolfson
FIU transfer Malik Smith is telling people that the #Gophers have offered. He's seeking a waiver to be eligible right away wherever he goes.

PiPress Gophers Now ‏@GophersNow
@RyanJamesMN Nice frame (6-9, 230), athleticism and skill for his size. I always liked Joey King's potential.
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Joey an Tyus were rivals in high school. I don't think it would keep Tyus from committing at all. High school rivals rarely like each other, doesn't mean they wouldn't play on the same team after high school.

I think that would be a storyline that is way overblown.

Also, I think he will have more offers than MN that he would take a walk on spot here. IMO, he will take a scholarship elsewhere before walking on at MN.
 

Among the many reasons why Tyus may not grant us with his holy presence, Joey King is far down the list...
 


BigGopherFan said:
I don't care that you think my opinion is totally ridiculous, but not explaining why you think that is confusing. What about my post do you find ridiculous? I'm sure you are going to say the whole thing, but why?
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I'm just havin' fun. I obviously think Joey is a much better player than you do. No worries.
 

Why would he go down to D2 for playing time reasons if he can get plenty of playing time in D1? He would get more than enough playing time if he simply stayed at Drake.

BigGopherFan said:
I think he would be better off playing Division II because of playing time. He's not overly-athletic, and that fits Division II better as well. The biggest difference in DI and DII is pure athleticism. And then size. Skills, like pure shooting, are often the same for Division I and Division II players. Division I players, though, are often taller and more athletic. But again, King would not impact the Gophers in a huge way, in my opinion. I do, however, think he could be a very good Division II player.
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A lot of assumptions being made here about Division II. I wonder how many here have actually followed NSIC hoops though...
 



joshvanklomp said:
A lot of assumptions being made here about Division II. I wonder how many here have actually followed NSIC hoops though...
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I just think people don't truly appreciate how much skill and talent D1 players really have. Bryant Allen was a walk on at Minnesota (basketball wise) and played 25 MPG at a mid-major. I'm just saying, even D1 guys people think "suck" are a lot better than you think, they just play against the best amateur competition in the country. It takes a LOT of talent and hard work to be a D1 basketball player and nothing bugs me more than when people say they "suck" or aren't good or that a D2 player is better when the vast majority of time that is not true.

Not saying this is you, but people love to say how Rodney Williams belongs in D2 or wherever and that is just flat out ridiculous. Or people say Rajon Rondo "can't shoot". I'd bet good money he'd beat any D2 player and most current D1 players in a three point contest with ease.
 

scher215 said:
I just think people don't truly appreciate how much skill and talent D1 players really have. Bryant Allen was a walk on at Minnesota (basketball wise) and played 25 MPG at a mid-major. I'm just saying, even D1 guys people think "suck" are a lot better than you think, they just play against the best amateur competition in the country. It takes a LOT of talent and hard work to be a D1 basketball player and nothing bugs me more than when people say they "suck" or aren't good or that a D2 player is better when the vast majority of time that is not true.

Not saying this is you, but people love to say how Rodney Williams belongs in D2 or wherever and that is just flat out ridiculous. Or people say Rajon Rondo "can't shoot". I'd bet good money he'd beat any D2 player and most current D1 players in a three point contest with ease.
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Rajon Rondo is that bad of a shooter. He's 24% from 3 and 62% from the stripe. If the the game was just about shooting, we'd have a lot more players that look like punters. It's not that the D2 players are better, it's that a lot of D1 players could move down to D2 or to a lesser D1 and get more minutes. The biggest misconception people have is they assume because the talent gap was so large on their high school team from the scrubs to the starters that a similar talent gap must exist at all levels.
 

Seems like the kid had a good Freshman year at Drake. 6th man by total minutes, 7 ppg, 35% from 3pg, 80% ft.... Gotta be better than than Otto and Wally, at least shooting wise.
 

AO54 said:
Rajon Rondo is that bad of a shooter. He's 24% from 3 and 62% from the stripe. If the the game was just about shooting, we'd have a lot more players that look like punters. It's not that the D2 players are better, it's that a lot of D1 players could move down to D2 or to a lesser D1 and get more minutes. The biggest misconception people have is they assume because the talent gap was so large on their high school team from the scrubs to the starters that a similar talent gap must exist at all levels.
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Watch this video of Rondo at practice from 1:30 on (the first half is his doing some 1 on 1 game) and tell me he's a terrible shooter. Your competition matters. Just because a guy looks bad or puts up bad numbers in an NBA game does not mean he is a bad shooter. Just because someone doesn't put up mind blowing numbers in a D1 game does not mean he should be playing D2.

 



scher215 said:
Watch this video of Rondo at practice from 1:30 on (the first half is his doing some 1 on 1 game) and tell me he's a terrible shooter. Your competition matters. Just because a guy looks bad or puts up bad numbers in an NBA game does not mean he is a bad shooter. Just because someone doesn't put up mind blowing numbers in a D1 game does not mean he should be playing D2.

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Without watching or following this train wreck of an "argument ", you want to base Rondos aability to shoot on a 2 min YouTube video over actual game statistics ....

WowWowWeeWow

Edit : not to mention the video is of practice!?!?!
 

scher215 said:
Watch this video of Rondo at practice from 1:30 on (the first half is his doing some 1 on 1 game) and tell me he's a terrible shooter. Your competition matters. Just because a guy looks bad or puts up bad numbers in an NBA game does not mean he is a bad shooter. Just because someone doesn't put up mind blowing numbers in a D1 game does not mean he should be playing D2.

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He's a bad shooter for his position from the field, and he's terrible for any position/level at the free throw line. You can find video of cats in their 80s shooting better in practice.

I'm not one of those people arguing that you should move down to D2 to get more playing time.
 

AO54 said:
He's a bad shooter for his position from the field, and he's terrible for any position/level at the free throw line. You can find video of cats in their 80s shooting better in practice.

I'm not one of those people arguing that you should move down to D2 to get more playing time.
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People truly believe there are 80 year olds at the local gym who can shoot better than any NBA player? Yikes. I think folks underestimate, again, how good NBA and even high-major college players really are.
 

scher215 said:
People truly believe there are 80 year olds at the local gym who can shoot better than any NBA player? Yikes. I think folks underestimate, again, how good NBA and even high-major college players really are.
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Who said anything about 80 year olds?
 


here's just a couple <iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/NzYh4CGAbCU" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/byzUvn6vM3o" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/u5fkDKNtgHk" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/63Mp54K0_As" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
 

ethomasp31 said:
Jones has been the starting PG at Apple Valley since he was in 8th grade. There was only one season that he played against King in high school where he didn't have Schalk on his team. And for the guy who was saying Schalk would fold up, you don't know what you are talking about. Schalk was a pretty damn good high school basketball player for Minnesota.
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First, I said that any "contact he would fold up". When he played underneath, teams that banged on him he would more and more move outside and his number went down especially rebounding and shooting percentage. He did have a pretty decent shot even though he had no rotation and ran the floor well. I never said he was a bad basketball player as well.

Hell I know Zack Goring and a couple of assistants and they have said the same thing about how he did not work well with contact and that was why they wanted to run more to help him out so that he did not have to get banged around.

Also, King transferred into Eastview I can't remember from where though. I know for sure that he and Tyus played at least three times, once was with Schalk. I can't remember if King was at Eastview though when they Eastview beat them in the Regional Semi's at St. Olaf.

I will say this about King if he is playing a 3, I definitely like him; but as a 4 I don't see it. I would rather give the scholly to Buckles and Black. I just don't see Black coming here now.

Eastview severely out rebounded Apple Valley in those games and Eastview made it a slugfest. The game Tyus's sophomore year, I thought for sure a fight was going to break out at least a few times.
 

scher215 said:
Watch this video of Rondo at practice from 1:30 on (the first half is his doing some 1 on 1 game) and tell me he's a terrible shooter. Your competition matters. Just because a guy looks bad or puts up bad numbers in an NBA game does not mean he is a bad shooter. Just because someone doesn't put up mind blowing numbers in a D1 game does not mean he should be playing D2.

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I think Allen Iverson said it best.

When's the last time the actual jumper from practice won a game?
 

cjcarter8 said:
I think Allen Iverson said it best.

When's the last time the actual jumper from practice won a game?
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My point was and will be who you play matters. The level of competition has a direct impact on the numbers you put up. So the same guy who shoots 10% against NBA competition could shoot 50% against high school competition. Did he all of a sudden become a better shooter? No. He played easier competition. My point is you can't say D3 player X shoots 60% while NBA player Y shoots 30% so therefore the D3 player is a better shooter. In reality, 9 times out of 10 were the competition equal the NBA player would have a higher percentage. Why is it lower? He plays against better defenses, not necessarily because he is a "bad" shooter. Player X averages 1 assist per game in the NBA. player Y averages 5 assists in high school. Would you conclude that player Y is a better overall passer? Man, I sure hope not.
 

scher215 said:
Watch this video of Rondo at practice from 1:30 on (the first half is his doing some 1 on 1 game) and tell me he's a terrible shooter. Your competition matters. Just because a guy looks bad or puts up bad numbers in an NBA game does not mean he is a bad shooter. Just because someone doesn't put up mind blowing numbers in a D1 game does not mean he should be playing D2.

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Rondo is a bad shooter. Stop with this.

Him shooting 3s in the gym alone is nearly the equivalent of the 3s he takes in NBA games . . . nobody defends him within 5 feet at the arc . . . BECAUSE HE CAN'T SHOOT.
 

scher215 said:
My point was and will be who you play matters. The level of competition has a direct impact on the numbers you put up. So the same guy who shoots 10% against NBA competition could shoot 50% against high school competition. Did he all of a sudden become a better shooter? No. He played easier competition. My point is you can't say D3 player X shoots 60% while NBA player Y shoots 30% so therefore the D3 player is a better shooter. In reality, 9 times out of 10 were the competition equal the NBA player would have a higher percentage. Why is it lower? He plays against better defenses, not necessarily because he is a "bad" shooter. Player X averages 1 assist per game in the NBA. player Y averages 5 assists in high school. Would you conclude that player Y is a better overall passer? Man, I sure hope not.
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Rondo cannot shoot. Your attempts at justifying how bad he is because he plays in the NBA is laughable. You are embarrassing yourself by pushing Rondo as a better shooter than he is given credit.
 


Gopherguy0723 said:
Rondo cannot shoot. Your attempts at justifying how bad he is because he plays in the NBA is laughable. You are embarrassing yourself by pushing Rondo as a better shooter than he is given credit.
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Not embarrassed at all my friend. Have no problem with people disagreeing with me, happens sometimes believe it or not.

Just have to agree to disagree and move on. No big deal at all.
 

scher215 said:
I just think people don't truly appreciate how much skill and talent D1 players really have. Bryant Allen was a walk on at Minnesota (basketball wise) and played 25 MPG at a mid-major. I'm just saying, even D1 guys people think "suck" are a lot better than you think, they just play against the best amateur competition in the country. It takes a LOT of talent and hard work to be a D1 basketball player and nothing bugs me more than when people say they "suck" or aren't good or that a D2 player is better when the vast majority of time that is not true.

Not saying this is you, but people love to say how Rodney Williams belongs in D2 or wherever and that is just flat out ridiculous. Or people say Rajon Rondo "can't shoot". I'd bet good money he'd beat any D2 player and most current D1 players in a three point contest with ease.
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I'm the biggest Division II snob out there, but Rodney Williams would average 25 points, 10 rebounds and 4 blocks a game in DII. Athleticism is the biggest difference between the NCAA Divisions. Williams would simply be too athletic to handle at the Division II level. A guy like, say, King, wouldn't be too much to handle in terms of overall athleticism. HOWEVER, I think King would make a terrific Division II player, just not as dominant as Rodney would have been (although it completely ridiculous to even type that).

In basketball, though, the gap between Division I and Division II is the smallest because of the percentage of players on full scholarship. For instance, essentially 100% of meaningful players on a DI team are on a full ride. For Division II, I'd say it's pretty close to 770-75% of every meaningful player is on a full ride. Football, essentially 100% of players are on a full ride in DI while maybe 50% for DII. See the difference.

Division II basketball is a hidden gem in my opinion. Facilities are underrated (see Drury, Minnesota State, Fort Hayes, Kentucky Wesleyan, Dixie State, Arkansas Tech, Bellarmine) and the talent level at top Division II programs is at least near the level of DI low-majors.
 

scher215 said:
My point was and will be who you play matters. The level of competition has a direct impact on the numbers you put up. So the same guy who shoots 10% against NBA competition could shoot 50% against high school competition. Did he all of a sudden become a better shooter? No. He played easier competition. My point is you can't say D3 player X shoots 60% while NBA player Y shoots 30% so therefore the D3 player is a better shooter. In reality, 9 times out of 10 were the competition equal the NBA player would have a higher percentage. Why is it lower? He plays against better defenses, not necessarily because he is a "bad" shooter. Player X averages 1 assist per game in the NBA. player Y averages 5 assists in high school. Would you conclude that player Y is a better overall passer? Man, I sure hope not.
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So Rodney will become a better shooter once he gets to the NBA because he'll be playing tougher competition? Sweet!
 


joshvanklomp said:
So Rodney will become a better shooter once he gets to the NBA because he'll be playing tougher competition? Sweet!
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Well no. He likely will become a better shooter after college though since he will have 40 hours per week (no more school!) and the best coaches to help him become a better shooter and practice and work out. Typically that helps you improve your skills. That's really beside the point though.
 

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