Tyrone Carter: I'm done with U of M unless Kaler and Coyle get fired

So you are admitting they have no legal ground to label these players as having committed sexual assault. We're making progress.

Technically, yes, that is what I'm saying. They could have 100% video proof of a rape (which they don't in this case, just saying so for my example) and the U is technically kicking u off campus for violating the student code of conduct. If folks don't like that u probably need to address your concern to political leaders and the Department of Education. Your "legal grounds" for being convicted of rape happen when the police get involved.
 


Technically, yes, that is what I'm saying. They could have 100% video proof of a rape (which they don't in this case, just saying so for my example) and the U is technically kicking u off campus for violating the student code of conduct. If folks don't like that u probably need to address your concern to political leaders and the Department of Education. Your "legal grounds" for being convicted of rape happen when the police get involved.

You agree that a university panel or person should be deciding whether sexual assault occurred? They can be kicked out of school for all sorts of reasons, but the university is overstepping its bounds based on a political agenda when it, not a legal apparatus decides whether criminal activity occurred and because these are minor celebrities in the twin cities their names will be out whether privacy laws were kept (and the U did not do this) or not.
 

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"Without her knowledge" refers to the distribution. As I already pointed out, knowledge of or consent to the recording is immaterial regarding a violation of the statute.

Distribution to the authorities after she pressed charges you mean? Consent and knowledge are immaterial? Not a very good statute then.


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Mainly because some of us demand real evidence before labeling someone a rapist.

This isn't about the student code, it's about rape. Serious big boy business. A crime. Not a student guideline violation.

When do you expect the police investigation to reopen because of the EOAA report...?

That's my take too. Far too many are calling this rape and the players rapists, and when you push back with evidence countering that claim, they retreat to the code of conduct. Nonsense.
Rape is what we are talking about and what has everyone on all sides riled up. Not harassment, not immoral behavior, not group sex, not trains, not lude text messages, not disrespect for women, rape.
And it ultimately comes down to a detailed account of the accuser which we've seen, and the other side of the story which we have not.


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Victim? Did I miss the trial where the players were tried and convicted? Damn that was quick.[emoji848]


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Well deuce 3 cornerstones of the the law viewed the video and they determined not to prosecute.The prosecutor for Hennipen Country has been known to be extremely pro active in prosecuting rape cases.

What does that have to do with my post? I don't disagree.


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That's my take too. Far too many are calling this rape and the players rapists, and when you push back with evidence countering that claim, they retreat to the code of conduct. Nonsense.
Rape is what we are talking about and what has everyone on all sides riled up. Not harassment, not immoral behavior, not group sex, not trains, not lude text messages, not disrespect for women, rape.
And it ultimately comes down to a detailed account of the accuser which we've seen, and the other side of the story which we have not.


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There's also many out there that if you question anything, then that means you are okay with rape. I gave up trying to have a logical conversation on social media.
 



Victim? Did I miss the trial where the players were tried and convicted? Damn that was quick.[emoji848]


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Agreed. There have absolutely been rape accusers who were in the wrong and the victimizers and accused rapists who were the victims. Three or four very high profile examples.


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Agreed. There have absolutely been rape accusers who were in the wrong and the victimizers and accused rapists who were the victims. Three or four very high profile examples.


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Agreed....anybody remember Tawanna Brawley? Damn! I might get banned for mentioning a "victims" name.


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Agreed....anybody remember Tawanna Brawley? Damn! I might get banned for mentioning a "victims" name.


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Old Al Sharpton probably does.


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Agreed. There have absolutely been rape accusers who were in the wrong and the victimizers and accused rapists who were the victims. Three or four very high profile examples.

Hello Duke Lacrosse...
 



Dude, the victim is doing just fine. Her name has never been mentioned and hopefully she's stopped doing vodka shots.
There are ten African American men whose names and pictures are plastered all over and not one of them is convicted of a crime. This entire charade has been a social media lynching of black men and you don't think they are victims at all. Go ahead and cheer the electronic lynching, but I'm not joining you.

+10000
 

Holy hell, the term "rape culture" needs to go away.
 

Holy hell, the term "rape culture" needs to go away.

Translation of rape culture is any man that doesn't agree an accused should be in prison or kicked out of school without benefit of legal protections. An ignorant misogynist. Emotional arguments from emotional people cannot and should not be the basis of our legal system.
 

Distribution to the authorities after she pressed charges you mean? Consent and knowledge are immaterial? Not a very good statute then.

Are you being purposefully obtuse? Did you even read the reports or the statute? Djam admits to showing it to other players. That's a violation of the statute. I'm not a lawyer, but I don't have much faith that the "not a very good statute" defense is a winning strategy. My question to you (and to Truth Seeker [sic] and RolGnav before you) is, since a crime was committed, was there a victim? If so, who?

After you're done contemplating and answering that, let's move on the statutes 617.246 and 617.247, namely "USE OF MINORS IN SEXUAL PERFORMANCE PROHIBITED" and "POSSESSION OF PORNOGRAPHIC WORK INVOLVING MINORS", respectively. Both of which Djam is seemingly guilty of violating. Any victims there?
 

Are you being purposefully obtuse? Did you even read the reports or the statute? Djam admits to showing it to other players. That's a violation of the statute. I'm not a lawyer, but I don't have much faith that the "not a very good statute" defense is a winning strategy. My question to you (and to Truth Seeker [sic] and RolGnav before you) is, since a crime was committed, was there a victim? If so, who?

After you're done contemplating and answering that, let's move on the statutes 617.246 and 617.247, namely "USE OF MINORS IN SEXUAL PERFORMANCE PROHIBITED" and "POSSESSION OF PORNOGRAPHIC WORK INVOLVING MINORS", respectively. Both of which Djam is seemingly guilty of violating. Any victims there?

You may want to familiarize yourself with the definition of crime. Then correct your post.....in fact just erase it all together.[emoji41]

Maybe this helps :

1 : an act or the commission of an act that is forbidden or the omission of a duty that is commanded by a public law and that makes the offender liable to punishment by that law; especially : a gross violation of law.


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You may want to familiarize yourself with the definition of crime. Then correct your post.....in fact just erase it all together.[emoji41]

Maybe this helps :

1 : an act or the commission of an act that is forbidden or the omission of a duty that is commanded by a public law and that makes the offender liable to punishment by that law; especially : a gross violation of law.

LOL, I just referenced three separate statutes of the Minnesota criminal code that Djam admitted to violating, i.e., crimes.
 


Not who you are addressing, but the "original" Constitution, Slavery, Post Reconstruction/ Jim Crow, the judicial system, public assistance rules, etc., etc, might be a good start...

Speaking to the bold type, this is a social problem that crosses all "races". Knew of many families of all "races" that had a household without the father present,and have children by multiple women.

So what you are saying is the black men we are talking about have no control of who they stick their penis in? It's the system's fault? They have no control of whether they are a part of their children's lives or whether they want to stick together as a family?

It cuts across all races, but it seems that the percentages for black men are higher than all other races. I could be wrong.

Seems like everyone is afraid to talk about this. I think racism is obviously a factor, but until people are willing to talk about this it remains the elephant in the room. It's pretty obvious that having indiscriminate sex without birth control is going to lead to fatherless children and be an obstacle to financial stability. Also, pretty tough if you're not going to respect women. White or black, these guys should be suspended from the privilege of playing football at a University. I had no idea of the girls race until recently, never saw it released. Interesting too that the head of the EOAA at the school is black. When are we going to stop treating these black men like children and start treating them like men/adults?


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Are you being purposefully obtuse? Did you even read the reports or the statute? Djam admits to showing it to other players. That's a violation of the statute. I'm not a lawyer, but I don't have much faith that the "not a very good statute" defense is a winning strategy. My question to you (and to Truth Seeker [sic] and RolGnav before you) is, since a crime was committed, was there a victim? If so, who?

After you're done contemplating and answering that, let's move on the statutes 617.246 and 617.247, namely "USE OF MINORS IN SEXUAL PERFORMANCE PROHIBITED" and "POSSESSION OF PORNOGRAPHIC WORK INVOLVING MINORS", respectively. Both of which Djam is seemingly guilty of violating. Any victims there?

You're not smart enough to post here. Don't comment on the law if you don't actually know how to research it or interpret it. Here is how you interpret and cite law that you would submit to court:

“A person who disseminates pornographic work to an adult or a minor, knowing or with reason to know its content and character, is guilty of a felony.” Minn. Stat. § 617.247, subd. 3(a). However, dissemination of a pornographic work under the statute “is not a strict liability offense. Rather, the state must prove that a defendant knew he was disseminating child pornography.” State v. McCauley, 820 N.W.2d 577, 587 (Minn. Ct. App. 2012). The mental requirement “’know’ requires only that the actor believes that the specified fact exists.” Minn. Stat. § 609.02, subd. 9(2).

“Dissemination” is not defined by statute, so its usage is “construed according to rules of grammar and according to their common and approved usage.” Minn. Stat. § 645.08(1). In approved usage by a dictionary “dissemination” means “Scatter in different directions, as in sowing seed; spread, disperse, diffuse, promulgate, (opinions, knowledge etc.).” Shorter Oxford English Dictionary 715 (6th Edition 2007).

A “pornographic work” is a work that shows, uses, or involves a minor. “Minn. Stat. § 617.246, subd. 1(f).

Dissemination of a pornographic work consists of three elements. They are:
1. The defendant knowingly disseminated a pornographic work to an adult or minor.
2. The pornographic work involved a minor.
3. The defendant knew or had reason to know that the content of the work was pornographic work involving the use of a minor.

All Djam has to prove is that he didn't specifically know that the recruit was 17. That's not hard to do. I doubt he asked his age, and the recruit is a senior, which is when most people turn 18. That dispels element 3, and then he is not guilty.

Now go way, and don't pretend to be a lawyer.
 


So what you are saying is the black men we are talking about have no control of who they stick their penis in? It's the system's fault? They have no control of whether they are a part of their children's lives or whether they want to stick together as a family?

It cuts across all races, but it seems that the percentages for black men are higher than all other races. I could be wrong.

Seems like everyone is afraid to talk about this. I think racism is obviously a factor, but until people are willing to talk about this it remains the elephant in the room. It's pretty obvious that having indiscriminate sex without birth control is going to lead to fatherless children and be an obstacle to financial stability. Also, pretty tough if you're not going to respect women. White or black, these guys should be suspended from the privilege of playing football at a University. I had no idea of the girls race until recently, never saw it released. Interesting too that the head of the EOAA at the school is black. When are we going to stop treating these black men like children and start treating them like men/adults?


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All fair comments but how are any of them relevant to the topic? Doesn't the young lady bare any responsibility or to we just proclaim her a victim and not responsible for her actions, push that blame to the men? I don't know that they disrespected anyone, including themselves. My personal opinion is they all (young lady included) did both but that's MY opinion.

I know what you think about the fellas, what are your thoughts on the young lady?


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You're not smart enough to post here. Don't comment on the law if you don't actually know how to research it or interpret it. Here is how you interpret and cite law that you would submit to court:

“A person who disseminates pornographic work to an adult or a minor, knowing or with reason to know its content and character, is guilty of a felony.” Minn. Stat. § 617.247, subd. 3(a). However, dissemination of a pornographic work under the statute “is not a strict liability offense. Rather, the state must prove that a defendant knew he was disseminating child pornography.” State v. McCauley, 820 N.W.2d 577, 587 (Minn. Ct. App. 2012). The mental requirement “’know’ requires only that the actor believes that the specified fact exists.” Minn. Stat. § 609.02, subd. 9(2).

“Dissemination” is not defined by statute, so its usage is “construed according to rules of grammar and according to their common and approved usage.” Minn. Stat. § 645.08(1). In approved usage by a dictionary “dissemination” means “Scatter in different directions, as in sowing seed; spread, disperse, diffuse, promulgate, (opinions, knowledge etc.).” Shorter Oxford English Dictionary 715 (6th Edition 2007).

A “pornographic work” is a work that shows, uses, or involves a minor. “Minn. Stat. § 617.246, subd. 1(f).

Dissemination of a pornographic work consists of three elements. They are:
1. The defendant knowingly disseminated a pornographic work to an adult or minor.
2. The pornographic work involved a minor.
3. The defendant knew or had reason to know that the content of the work was pornographic work involving the use of a minor.

All Djam has to prove is that he didn't specifically know that the recruit was 17. That's not hard to do. I doubt he asked his age, and the recruit is a senior, which is when most people turn 18. That dispels element 3, and then he is not guilty.

Now go way, and don't pretend to be a lawyer.

This is very informative. So all Djam has to do to avoid any penalty is lie (again). Interesting.

Now do 617.261
 


So what you are saying is the black men we are talking about have no control of who they stick their penis in? It's the system's fault? They have no control of whether they are a part of their children's lives or whether they want to stick together as a family?

It cuts across all races, but it seems that the percentages for black men are higher than all other races. I could be wrong.

Seems like everyone is afraid to talk about this. I think racism is obviously a factor, but until people are willing to talk about this it remains the elephant in the room. It's pretty obvious that having indiscriminate sex without birth control is going to lead to fatherless children and be an obstacle to financial stability. Also, pretty tough if you're not going to respect women. White or black, these guys should be suspended from the privilege of playing football at a University. I had no idea of the girls race until recently, never saw it released. Interesting too that the head of the EOAA at the school is black. When are we going to stop treating these black men like children and start treating them like men/adults?


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"Real Talk 24, I agree with you that there have been many a black man jailed or lynched for messing with white girls.

In your opinion, why do you think there are so many black men without black fathers in their lives? Also, why do you think there are so many black fathers who don't teach their sons what you taught yours? Lastly, why do you think there are so many black men that have children with multiple women? This is real talk and real questions without political correctness."

Your comments above. Study the list of reasons I listed as starters and get back to me. Furthermore, the way you originally stated this is as if it is just black men who have this problem. Now I'll add the implication that Sportsfan24 is the only black man/ person to ever discuss the responsiblity of sex amongst other things. Last comment here. I could give you a long and extensive list of black men who are not only in their childrens lives, that have been married to the mother(one and only mother) of their children.

If I am not mistaken, numerically, whites still are the highest represented in many of the catagories you are discussing. Wouldn't it make sense to look at that as well? Maybe not. That would be trying to fix issues for all. We wouldn't want that would we?
 

Are you being purposefully obtuse? Did you even read the reports or the statute? Djam admits to showing it to other players. That's a violation of the statute. I'm not a lawyer, but I don't have much faith that the "not a very good statute" defense is a winning strategy. My question to you (and to Truth Seeker [sic] and RolGnav before you) is, since a crime was committed, was there a victim? If so, who?

After you're done contemplating and answering that, let's move on the statutes 617.246 and 617.247, namely "USE OF MINORS IN SEXUAL PERFORMANCE PROHIBITED" and "POSSESSION OF PORNOGRAPHIC WORK INVOLVING MINORS", respectively. Both of which Djam is seemingly guilty of violating. Any victims there?

Since the whole discussion is about whether laws, codes, and processes are good or bad, id say I'm free to have an opinion on showing the video.
I'd be fine with Djam facing consequences for the latter two. And frankly, I'm still of the mind that if the original group were all booted, this story is not that big of a story and there is no resistance to it.

I just don't think if for example, a girl sends my buddy a nude picture of her, or he takes a picture of her on his phone and he shows it to me, that a crime has been committed. It may be the law, but I don't agree with it. There are thousands of laws unrelated to sex that I disagree with, so not picking on you.




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