Tyrone Carter: I'm done with U of M unless Kaler and Coyle get fired

[Some Day...Maybe]

Just think if there wasn't a video of the consensual sex? There would be 5 guys in jail today. Thank god they recorded it!

That's a huge leap. Didn't know you were attorney, judge and jury. But I guess you have a crystal ball. Not jumping ahead or anything there.

 

[WorkingMyTailOff]

Like Mr. Carter, I too am done with the U if Coyle doesn't get fired...but it will be for him giving the players heads up that an investigation was coming so that they could get rid of the evidence by the time they were interviewed Sept. 9th...a full week after the incident. If it is shown that he aided the players in getting legal representation but did not get a lawyer for the victim....let me go find another job. This is what the evidence points to...

Where did you get this information? I'm not saying I don't believe you, but that is a pretty serious claim.

 

[GopherOhana]

At what point was that, and what happened after that?

per the eoaa report and guessing this would be RS's version:

"RS became increasingly confused and repeatedly asked where all of the people were coming
from. She repeatedly yelled at the crowd to stop sending people in the bedroom. She repeatedly
yelled, "I can't handle this many people" and "1 don' t want this to happen." She yelled several
times that she hated the onlookers, to which they laughed and someone responded, "ha ha, why?"
At one point, RS asked the onlookers to "get A2 ., because she thought that he would help
her. In response, someone said that "he has had his turn and you ha\le a lot more to go."
RS recalls that he'r clothes and phone were in the corner of the room next to a white plastic
shelf. They were too far away for RS to reach and RS did not want to expose her body to
get them. She recalls asking for her clothes. At one point, someone responded that she "had a
lot more to do" before sh~ could get dressed. She recalls that she tried to retrieve her clothes on
multiple occasions, and then someone took the clothes from her and tossed them back into the
corner. Other times, there were men betwee11 her and her clothes and she did not feel that she
could safely leave the bed to retrieve them.
After her sexual contact with /!\2 and the recruit, RS told evety man who !tied to have sex
with her that she did not want to engage in sexual activity with them. She felt unable to leave the
situation because there were so many guys by the door and she could not get her clothes. At
times, she believes that she was being held down or that her fear was preventing her from
moving. RS recalls focusing on the ceiling and on the television (which was tumed. off), and
feeling unaware or confused about what was happening. RS recalls that, on multiple
occasions, she suddenly realized what was happening to her and tried to push the men off of her.
She remembers pushing men's stomachs in: an attempt to get them off of her. "

 

[WorkingMyTailOff]

Since TC and Sportsfan brought race into this I thought I would share an interesting post I saw on Facebook related to this talking about black masculinity in relation to sex. And i know that this is not just a black thing. This is happening across college campuses with white kids as well (frats...).

 

[LesBolstad]

Since TC and Sportsfan brought race into this I thought I would share an interesting post I saw on Facebook related to this talking about black masculinity in relation to sex.

Wow. Powerful stuff. Everyone needs to read this.

 

[rkhmncfo]

Do any of the things you're mentioning matter? Spoiler alert: No. Does it appear that you even attempted to read and comprehend the statute that I referenced? No and no, apparently.

Here's a highlight for you: "Subd. 3. No defense. It is not a defense to a prosecution under this section that the person consented to the capture or possession of the image."

Djam confessed to a crime, to both the police and the EOAA. So let's try again, if there was a crime, was there a victim? If so, who? Take your time.

I was not aware of the video being publicly disseminated. I thought it was shown to the police? Where is the evidence of public dissemination?

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[minny01]

That's a huge leap. Didn't know you were attorney, judge and jury. But I guess you have a crystal ball. Not jumping ahead or anything there.

I don't think that is that far off. Without the video evidence, the authorities would have had to arrest and charge the 5 guys based upon her statements and probable cause. Whether they would have stood up is another discussion, but the video evidence is probably what caused charges not to be filed.

 

[Sportsfan24]

Since TC and Sportsfan brought race into this I thought I would share an interesting post I saw on Facebook related to this talking about black masculinity in relation to sex. And i know that this is not just a black thing. This is happening across college campuses with white kids as well (frats...).

Thanks for sharing, fair point of view...not mine but fair.


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[Some Day...Maybe]

Real talk and all political correctness aside; a many a brother has been jailed or lynched for messing with white girls.

Also real talk; we are doing our young ladies a disservice if we continue to teach them there are no consequences for their actions.

1. If you hit a man you should expect to get hit by a man (although dad will still kill them).

2. If you get drunk around a man you may very well wake up with penis breath. It's wrong...... but your breath still smells like penis.

As the father of 3 college graduates; two daughters and one son (college football player). I told the girls group sex will get you kicked out of the family plus it makes you ugly and your hair fall out, stay with your girlfriends at parties, for the love of god don't get drunk (and why...penis breath) and never leave your drink unattended.

I told my son group sex is gross (unless you have the only penis then it's good) never ever sleep with a drunk girl, treat women like you want men to treat your sisters.

I told all three, assume everything you do will become public....are you comfortable with that? And most importantly use condoms and until you are married tell dad you are still a virgin (except for my son.....I'm chauvinistic that way).


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Real Talk 24, I agree with you that there have been many a black man jailed or lynched for messing with white girls.

In your opinion, why do you think there are so many black men without black fathers in their lives? Also, why do you think there are so many black fathers who don't teach their sons what you taught yours? Lastly, why do you think there are so many black men that have children with multiple women? This is real talk and real questions without political correctness.

 

[STPGopher]

First of all, if there is such a pattern of white women claiming rape after having sex with black men, then perhaps black men should stop having sex with white women. Seems simple enough to me.

Second, regarding suspension of the girl for having consensual group sex, why would she be? No one else has been.


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So I guess those brave enough to follow there heart and marry someone out side of their ethnic/ racial backround are $h!t out of luck...

Regarding the original statement,(playing devils advocate) race could very well play a part in ways not discussed. Would someone be equally embarrassed if men from their own ethnic backround did the same thing? We don't know.

Moving back to Mr. Carter's statement, I think he may be upset with how the admins handled this situation. As previously stated, with that I agree. Not sure our reasons are the same, but I do agree. If the Admins saw the video(s), knew about the drinking etc., they should have acted sooner. If you are suspending people "until you know the facts" then if you wait till you know the facts. Furthermore why let them play if you knew you could/ would expell them?

Deciding to let them play is firmly on Coyle/ Kaler.

Regarding the potentially not directly involved? I think this is where the debates are. Are they allowed due process?

Is the University going to do more then throw these players under the bus? Or are they going to get serious about many things including the availability of alcohol. It must be readily available if a young lady can take 4 or 5, 4 to 6 shots of Vodka and be able to "not appear impaired/ drunk". How are so many students, including those that were later found dead in the Mississippi getting this stuff. I am including this because much of the inconsistencies and lack of better judgement is being blamed on alcohol. Of course reducing/ eliminating rape in all forms is on this list as well.

Are they going to do more to protect underaged recruits?

Now going to the even more ugly, and (Non Secquitur?). Will there be a case against the plaintiff regarding sex with an underaged recruit? Is the plaintiff of legal drinking age?

 

[WorkingMyTailOff]

Thanks for sharing, fair point of view...not mine but fair.


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I appreciate your thoughts here too. This incident has split this fan base up and I see people here disagreeing that normally are aligned.

 

[STPGopher]

Real Talk 24, I agree with you that there have been many a black man jailed or lynched for messing with white girls.

In your opinion, why do you think there are so many black men without black fathers in their lives? Also, why do you think there are so many black fathers who don't teach their sons what you taught yours? Lastly, why do you think there are so many black men that have children with multiple women? This is real talk and real questions without political correctness.

Not who you are addressing, but the "original" Constitution, Slavery, Post Reconstruction/ Jim Crow, the judicial system, public assistance rules, etc., etc, might be a good start...

Speaking to the bold type, this is a social problem that crosses all "races". Knew of many families of all "races" that had a household without the father present,and have children by multiple women.

 

[Pompous Elitist]

Not necessarily. But if a poster dismisses the report without reference to the specific parts of the the report that have flaws, it gives the impression the poster hasn't read the report from beginning to end and has very little knowledge about what is actually in it. And if that is true, it will force many people to conclude that poster is ignoring the contents of the report because they are not particularly bothered that U students are gang raped by Gopher football players. Let me put it another way: a blanket dismissal of the EOAA report is evidence that posters are automatically siding with the players and will not accept as true any evidence that supports the victim.

- the alleged victim admits she doesn't remember much about the incident
- Kiondre was originally framed, then she decided it was someone else
- she picked pictures out of a lineup
- she originally said the threesome with Djam was consensual, then said it wasn't
- she amazingly recalled more details weeks after the incident vs a few days later
- she said she wasn't sure it was rape
- she was confused about number of men
- no evidence of rape at the hospital
- no DNA evidence


Her story would be ripped to shreds under cross examination. Shame on all of you for calling these guys rapists when you don't know a damn thing. What if you're wrong? Doesn't matter? Do some of you even want to know the truth?

In particular CoMN and Up north have their minds made up. Very sad.

 

[Pompous Elitist]

I appreciate your thoughts here too. This incident has split this fan base up and I see people here disagreeing that normally are aligned.

Mainly because some of us demand real evidence before labeling someone a rapist.

This isn't about the student code, it's about rape. Serious big boy business. A crime. Not a student guideline violation.

When do you expect the police investigation to reopen because of the EOAA report...?

 

[bigticket1]

Like Mr. Carter, I too am done with the U if Coyle doesn't get fired...but it will be for him giving the players heads up that an investigation was coming so that they could get rid of the evidence by the time they were interviewed Sept. 9th...a full week after the incident. If it is shown that he aided the players in getting legal representation but did not get a lawyer for the victim....let me go find another job. This is what the evidence points to...

Just what evidence do you believe was destroyed ? The cell phone videos were still there. The phone chatter between players was still there. Did you expect them to leave the used condoms on the floor for a week ? At this point, the only evidence we know that the EOCC did not see were the longer video and the women's medical reports, which the women did not allow them to see. Coyle got the AD job that Lee Hutton badly wanted. I doubt that Coyle would call him to represent anyone.

 

[Sportsfan24]

Real Talk 24, I agree with you that there have been many a black man jailed or lynched for messing with white girls.

In your opinion, why do you think there are so many black men without black fathers in their lives? Also, why do you think there are so many black fathers who don't teach their sons what you taught yours? Lastly, why do you think there are so many black men that have children with multiple women? This is real talk and real questions without political correctness.

Hmmmmmmmm, I would say it's the same reasons as white dads just multiplied because of racism. Trifling, selfish, little boys having sex coupled with discriminatory sentencing guidelines for minority's, discriminatory hiring practices ect.......

Real talk? Brothers that do what you described bare sole responsibility for their actions or inactions. Black men sixty years ago faced far more discrimination than today and were present in their children's lives. Certainly part of it is a system i.e. welfare, women's rights that makes it possible for women to have a option to leave unwanted relationships.

Now with than being said if I come home from another trip out of town and my son hasn't shoveled the snow and my wife hasn't gotten her hair done I may abandon my family........just saying.


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[pregameatblarneys]

That's why I'm curious about the race of the victim. Her race SHOULD NOT MATTER AT ALL, but if it was known she is white, wouldn't BLM and the likes of Jesse Jackson and/or Al Sharpton get involved? I haven't seen any mention of the race of the victim.

One would think, but it doesn't fit their narrative that all cops are racist.

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[TruthSeeker]

- the alleged victim admits she doesn't remember much about the incident
- Kiondre was originally framed, then she decided it was someone else
- she picked pictures out of a lineup
- she originally said the threesome with Djam was consensual, then said it wasn't
- she amazingly recalled more details weeks after the incident vs a few days later
- she said she wasn't sure it was rape
- she was confused about number of men
- no evidence of rape at the hospital
- no DNA evidence


Her story would be ripped to shreds under cross examination. Shame on all of you for calling these guys rapists when you don't know a damn thing. What if you're wrong? Doesn't matter? Do some of you even want to know the truth?

In particular CoMN and Up north have their minds made up. Very sad.

Yep. They don't care about actual fact finding or due process. They see a report, they take the report at face value, and then they grab torches. UpNorth ("UNN" on the OTB) made up his mind before the EOAA report even came out. They are autocrats.

 

[TruthSeeker]

One would think, but it doesn't fit their narrative that all cops are racist.

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They might now. Her name and race is out there. I won't repeat, but now that people know more will come.

 

[minny01]

Yep. They don't care about actual fact finding or due process. They see a report, they take the report at face value, and then they grab torches. UpNorth ("UNN" on the OTB) made up his mind before the EOAA report even came out. They are autocrats.

Pretty much sums it up.

 

[Sportsfan24]

Not who you are addressing, but the "original" Constitution, Slavery, Post Reconstruction/ Jim Crow, the judicial system, public assistance rules, etc., etc, might be a good start...

Speaking to the bold type, this is a social problem that crosses all "races". Knew of many families of all "races" that had a household without the father present,and have children by multiple women.

You answered far better than I.[emoji1531][emoji1531][emoji1531]


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[STPGopher]

Since TC and Sportsfan brought race into this I thought I would share an interesting post I saw on Facebook related to this talking about black masculinity in relation to sex. And i know that this is not just a black thing. This is happening across college campuses with white kids as well (frats...).

While I too am troubled by this (I am not defending those directly involved) i still think the situation should have been handled differently once the incident that occurred September 1st, 2nd occurred. There are still a few people listed that we don't know exactly how they were/ are involved. It seems that those that are questioning, are questioning the fairness of calling all involved rapists without due process.

Just my opinion here. I hold Kaler and Coyle to a MUCH higher standard than I do others involved in this incident. Not related, but if Kaler really wanted to be a supporter of title IX/ title IX compliant, he would have given Goetz a fair shot. He also would of spoken up when others implied that she wasn't helping with fundraising amongst other things.

Now going off topic. I keep seeing stories where is says 4 to 6 shots, and 4 or 5. Sounds like even the media has conflicting reports.

Now I'm going off topic and expressing anger. Going back to poor leadership Teague, how can the Star and Tribune print stories questioning people not involved doing more to protect others when they couldn't even protect their own reporter. They knew about it(harrassment). Assuming accounts are correct, they did nothing to protect her. Nothing! What if it went even further and the person harrassing took it to the next level?

 

[GhostofBronko]

Seriously, you're claiming that law enforcement did not investigate this alleged assault because of race? Quite possible one of the worst posts that I've ever read here.

Congratulations, you've managed to reach a conclusion 180 degrees out from the point I was making.

 

[GhostofBronko]

Without her knowledge, you know this how? Supposedly can be seen looking into the camera. Have you seen the video?

"Without her knowledge" refers to the distribution. As I already pointed out, knowledge of or consent to the recording is immaterial regarding a violation of the statute.

 

[minny01]

Congratulations, you've managed to reach a conclusion 180 degrees out from the point I was making.

I apologize if I misinterpreted you. Here is your quote -

[B]The white cops do basically jack squat in terms of investigating this assault,[/B] the black administrator hands down penalties, and it's still "brothers can't catch a break."

Where did I misinterpret you?

 

[GhostofBronko]

I apologize if I misinterpreted you. Here is your quote -

[B]The white cops do basically jack squat in terms of investigating this assault,[/B] the black administrator hands down penalties, and it's still "brothers can't catch a break."

Where did I misinterpret you?

Here' a hint: quoting me doesn't help. I know what I wrote. It's what you wrote in response that was a misinterpretation.

My point to 24 was that race was likely not a factor. You took that and claimed I was saying that race was a factor. I have no idea how you did it, but somehow you managed. (And just so we don't have any further misunderstanding, the preceding sentence is not a compliment.)

 

[Spoofin]

Yep. They don't care about actual fact finding or due process. They see a report, they take the report at face value, and then they grab torches. <b>UpNorth ("UNN" on the OTB) made up his mind before the EOAA report even came out. </b>They are autocrats.

Absolute fact. He said on here the day before the report was released that he "sure wasn't going to believe a bunch of football players over this girl." Then he tries to say he is about facts, reviewed the report, and then made a decision. He also hasn't responded to me asking him to defend that statement in the 10+ times I have asked. Some on here align with this crackpot. Stay away.


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[U2Gopher]

Mainly because some of us demand real evidence before labeling someone a rapist.

This isn't about the student code, it's about rape. Serious big boy business. A crime. Not a student guideline violation.

When do you expect the police investigation to reopen because of the EOAA report...?

Actually, it is about a student code violation. The U can't prosecute u for rape, they get u for student code violations.

As for the police getting involved again, I personally do not expect them too. They have already looked at the evidence and determined there isn't enough there to stand up in a court of law. And even if they do get involved, I would think the players and those who support them would have nothing to worry about because apparently all of the evidence in the EOAA report isn't factual.

 

[Pompous Elitist]

Actually, it is about a student code violation. The U can't prosecute u for rape, they get u for student code violations.

As for the police getting involved again, I personally do not expect them too. They have already looked at the evidence and determined there isn't enough there to stand up in a court of law. And even if they do get involved, I would think the players and those who support them would have nothing to worry about because apparently all of the evidence in the EOAA report isn't factual.

So you are admitting they have no legal ground to label these players as having committed sexual assault. We're making progress.

 

[MennoSota]

Yep. They don't care about actual fact finding or due process. They see a report, they take the report at face value, and then they grab torches. UpNorth ("UNN" on the OTB) made up his mind before the EOAA report even came out. They are autocrats.

Your surmising is accurate.