Tyrone Carter: I'm done with U of M unless Kaler and Coyle get fired

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Unethical Administration?

- Where people at the Holiday Bowl informed of the pending investigation when the invitation was accepted?

- Where fans informed of a pending investigation? Many thousands of dollars were spent on plane tickets, motels
and game tickets.

- Where the coaches informed of the scope of the investigation?

We expect ethical behavior from students. Should administrators have ethical standards?

Why is Coyle still employed by the University
 

Sportsfan24 said:
All fair comments but how are any of them relevant to the topic? Doesn't the young lady bare any responsibility or to we just proclaim her a victim and not responsible for her actions, push that blame to the men? I don't know that they disrespected anyone, including themselves. My personal opinion is they all (young lady included) did both but that's MY opinion.

I know what you think about the fellas, what are your thoughts on the young lady?


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Yeah you handled this one better than I did. L.O.L. This is turning into a Paul Mooney skit. "Ask a black man"...
 

gopherveteran said:
Unethical Administration?

- Where people at the Holiday Bowl informed of the pending investigation when the invitation was accepted?

- Where fans informed of a pending investigation? Many thousands of dollars were spent on plane tickets, motels
and game tickets.

- Where the coaches informed of the scope of the investigation?

We expect ethical behavior from students. Should administrators have ethical standards?

Why is Coyle still employed by the University
Click to expand...

All good questions.
 

STPGopher said:
Yeah you handled this one better than I did. L.O.L. This is turning into a Paul Mooney skit. "Ask a black man"...
Click to expand...

I would pay good money to watch Mooney respond to some of these guys.....OUCH! Feelings would be absolutely hurt.


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gopherveteran said:
Unethical Administration?

- Where people at the Holiday Bowl informed of the pending investigation when the invitation was accepted?

- Where fans informed of a pending investigation? Many thousands of dollars were spent on plane tickets, motels
and game tickets.

- Where the coaches informed of the scope of the investigation?

We expect ethical behavior from students. Should administrators have ethical standards?

Why is Coyle still employed by the University
Click to expand...

Most interesting take so far.
 



Pompous Elitist said:
You agree that a university panel or person should be deciding whether sexual assault occurred? They can be kicked out of school for all sorts of reasons, but the university is overstepping its bounds based on a political agenda when it, not a legal apparatus decides whether criminal activity occurred and because these are minor celebrities in the twin cities their names will be out whether privacy laws were kept (and the U did not do this) or not.
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Pompous, you know that you and I have gone a few rounds on this board about things and I dare say there may be bad blood between us. So, I will try to be nice about what I am about to say. The Title IX investigation is a required investigation by several laws that fall under Title IX. But, there purpose is not to determine a level of guilt for a criminal proceeding. In fact, it is run under a separate set of rules that are to protect woman on campuses from having a continuous problem of sexual assaults being a cultural problem. The definitions under these acts are much more broadly and easier to enforce than would a charge of a sexual crime be decided. The United States Congress, Senate and President have repeatedly enacted legislation to end male students on college campuses from behaving like the 10 accused football players acted under Title IX subsections. The only result that Title IX investigation is to determine is whether or not the accused should remain on campus, period. If you don't like that Title, well, start a political party and repeal it, piece by piece because there is more than one law involved here. There is too much history with these laws and unchallenged expulsions and students losing aid, housing, access to their continuing education because they were found to be immoral little perverts that should have their heads legally bashed in by Dads Against Daughters Dating. So, unless you can defeat that little organization, and I don't think you can come close to that kind of political power, you can forget that Title IX investigations are going to end by some SCOTUS rule saying it is done because due process wasn't there. Due process is there. The guy has to show up and make a case that it was consensual. The rules are different because the level of outcome is so much less than a criminal case. Sometimes, a reputation is simply damaged by moral outrage and not any other reason and repair is simply not in the cards. It goes under that exemplary field of understanding called 'that's life, dumbass.' In this case, and others like it, we Dads are calling the shots. Not the outraged football clients, but the fathers and mothers.
 

LesBolstad said:
+1000. Is this Sportsfan24 dude for real? He's everything why the black community culture sinks deeper and deeper into the swamp.
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Your post speaks to your own bias and prejudiced opinions, say's you are the very thing your accusing Sportsfan24 of being. + 1000 Nice generalization of an entire group of people, based on one persons opinion(exactly one post) or observations. Just because you don't like Sportsfan24 opinion, or commentary doesn't validate your point of view any more than his.
 

gopherdudepart2 said:
Your post speaks to your own bias and prejudiced opinions, say's you are the very thing your accusing Sportsfan24 of being. + 1000 Nice generalization of an entire group of people, based on one persons opinion(exactly one post) or observations. Just because you don't like Sportsfan24 opinion, or commentary doesn't validate your point of view any more than his.
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Don't take anything Les writes as serious.
 



I went to the Northwestern game with my son, his high school friend who is a U of M student, and his dad. As we were walking to Blarneys for pregame, I made the comment that those players were lucky to get out of "that stuff". He told me that this was far from over and more players will be involved and be suspended for the bowl game. I made a comment that they have all been cleared. He said, "not by the college" I called BS and said that we would have heard about it already. He said that by not releasing this information until right before the bowl game it will create maximum collateral damage. I tried to pry him for more information, but he wouldn't budge. Plus, I thought he was full of sh!it. To this day, I don't know if it was the student or his dad who knew this information. Here's my question. If a junior, non athlete, U of M student knows that this will be released, don't you think that Kaler and his over-paid lackey Coyle should also know this and be a little proactive? This is an absolute freaking disaster. Both Kaler and Coyle should be fired.
 

jrock said:
I went to the Northwestern game with my son, his high school friend who is a U of M student, and his dad. As we were walking to Blarneys for pregame, I made the comment that those players were lucky to get out of "that stuff". He told me that this was far from over and more players will be involved and be suspended for the bowl game. I made a comment that they have all been cleared. He said, "not by the college" I called BS and said that we would have heard about it already. He said that by not releasing this information until right before the bowl game it will create maximum collateral damage. I tried to pry him for more information, but he wouldn't budge. Plus, I thought he was full of sh!it. To this day, I don't know if it was the student or his dad who knew this information. Here's my question. If a junior, non athlete, U of M student knows that this will be released, don't you think that Kaler and his over-paid lackey Coyle should also know this and be a little proactive? This is an absolute freaking disaster. Both Kaler and Coyle should be fired.
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So what you're saying is that Coyle and Kaler did a good job of not interfering with process and the players should not have been surprised because everyone knew.




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MaxyJR1 said:
So what you're saying is that Coyle and Kaler did a good job of not interfering with process and the players should not have been surprised because everyone knew.




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Not at all. I'm saying that if they knew this was coming down, they should have been more involved and not botched it the way they have. And they did botch this. Like I said, This is a disaster. About as bad of decision making for an administration as it gets.
 

Dean S said:
Pompous, you know that you and I have gone a few rounds on this board about things and I dare say there may be bad blood between us. So, I will try to be nice about what I am about to say. The Title IX investigation is a required investigation by several laws that fall under Title IX. But, there purpose is not to determine a level of guilt for a criminal proceeding. In fact, it is run under a separate set of rules that are to protect woman on campuses from having a continuous problem of sexual assaults being a cultural problem. The definitions under these acts are much more broadly and easier to enforce than would a charge of a sexual crime be decided. The United States Congress, Senate and President have repeatedly enacted legislation to end male students on college campuses from behaving like the 10 accused football players acted under Title IX subsections. The only result that Title IX investigation is to determine is whether or not the accused should remain on campus, period. If you don't like that Title, well, start a political party and repeal it, piece by piece because there is more than one law involved here. There is too much history with these laws and unchallenged expulsions and students losing aid, housing, access to their continuing education because they were found to be immoral little perverts that should have their heads legally bashed in by Dads Against Daughters Dating. So, unless you can defeat that little organization, and I don't think you can come close to that kind of political power, you can forget that Title IX investigations are going to end by some SCOTUS rule saying it is done because due process wasn't there. Due process is there. The guy has to show up and make a case that it was consensual. The rules are different because the level of outcome is so much less than a criminal case. Sometimes, a reputation is simply damaged by moral outrage and not any other reason and repair is simply not in the cards. It goes under that exemplary field of understanding called 'that's life, dumbass.' In this case, and others like it, we Dads are calling the shots. Not the outraged football clients, but the fathers and mothers.
Click to expand...

The DOE mandates are interpretations of Title IX, no more. Whenever something is legislated into existence the bureaucracy creates the actual guidelines and rules. The obama appointee handed down mandates in 2011 that more likely than not will be unilaterally repealed in 2017 or 2018 without any law being voted on or repealed. Constitutional rights law is more set in stone and we will be seeing the outcomes of those lawsuits over the next few years. Since we don't have all the details here it is impossible to say what will happen but I've got my popcorn out.

You are confused.
 



Dean S said:
Pompous, you know that you and I have gone a few rounds on this board about things and I dare say there may be bad blood between us. So, I will try to be nice about what I am about to say. The Title IX investigation is a required investigation by several laws that fall under Title IX. But, there purpose is not to determine a level of guilt for a criminal proceeding. In fact, it is run under a separate set of rules that are to protect woman on campuses from having a continuous problem of sexual assaults being a cultural problem. The definitions under these acts are much more broadly and easier to enforce than would a charge of a sexual crime be decided. The United States Congress, Senate and President have repeatedly enacted legislation to end male students on college campuses from behaving like the 10 accused football players acted under Title IX subsections. The only result that Title IX investigation is to determine is whether or not the accused should remain on campus, period. If you don't like that Title, well, start a political party and repeal it, piece by piece because there is more than one law involved here. There is too much history with these laws and unchallenged expulsions and students losing aid, housing, access to their continuing education because they were found to be immoral little perverts that should have their heads legally bashed in by Dads Against Daughters Dating. So, unless you can defeat that little organization, and I don't think you can come close to that kind of political power, you can forget that Title IX investigations are going to end by some SCOTUS rule saying it is done because due process wasn't there. Due process is there. The guy has to show up and make a case that it was consensual. The rules are different because the level of outcome is so much less than a criminal case. Sometimes, a reputation is simply damaged by moral outrage and not any other reason and repair is simply not in the cards. It goes under that exemplary field of understanding called 'that's life, dumbass.' In this case, and others like it, we Dads are calling the shots. Not the outraged football clients, but the fathers and mothers.
Click to expand...

Out of curiosity I asked a female friend to read the document and tell me her thoughts, both of us a late middle aged, young senior citizens, she had a hard time with validity of the report, it didn't ring true for her, she really questioned the victims responsibility in the events, what did the rape report show, wrapping herself in a blanket because she didn't want to be seen (her comment was why didn't she just put her damn closes back on if that was a problem), one of the roommates having sex in another room with his girlfriend while the supposed assault was happening, so many others in the proximity.

Was it just some really bad decisions made by many people.
 

gopherveteran said:
Unethical Administration?

- Where people at the Holiday Bowl informed of the pending investigation when the invitation was accepted?

- Where fans informed of a pending investigation? Many thousands of dollars were spent on plane tickets, motels
and game tickets.

- Where the coaches informed of the scope of the investigation?

We expect ethical behavior from students. Should administrators have ethical standards?

Why is Coyle still employed by the University
Click to expand...

Because when investigating some serious ****.... we need to give a heads up to the holiday bowl and fans... priorities I guess.
 

jrock said:
If a junior, non athlete, U of M student knows that this will be released, don't you think that Kaler and his over-paid lackey Coyle should also know this and be a little proactive? This is an absolute freaking disaster. Both Kaler and Coyle should be fired.
Click to expand...

Proactive about what? The football team knew this was going to be released. 12 of the players were interviewed by the EOAA, along with at least 16 other students.
 

jrock said:
Not at all. I'm saying that if they knew this was coming down, they should have been more involved and not botched it the way they have. And they did botch this. Like I said, This is a disaster. About as bad of decision making for an administration as it gets.
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+1. The way this was handled from Tuesday-Saturday was easily avoidable by competent administrators. They acted like a bomb had been dropped on them when it should have been expected, they should have met with the team before anything was made public, etc.
 

howeda7 said:
+1. The way this was handled from Tuesday-Saturday was easily avoidable by competent administrators. They acted like a bomb had been dropped on them when it should have been expected, they should have met with the team before anything was made public, etc.
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You expect administrators to show concern and consideration toward the help? I'm sure they had more important things to do like preparing their families for a paid vacation to watch their employees in the bowl game.


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howeda7 said:
+1. The way this was handled from Tuesday-Saturday was easily avoidable by competent administrators. They acted like a bomb had been dropped on them when it should have been expected, they should have met with the team before anything was made public, etc.
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The administration did act like they were the "bishes" of the EOAA. When we say the inmates are running the asylum, this is a prime example.

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GopherSteak said:
So, the players haven't had a chance to defend themselves in whatever court the university uses yet? At this point I don't care what happens to the football team, I want Kaler fired.
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I didn't realize Kaler was 1 of the 10 there that night.
 




Damien Wilson chimes in:

<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Go Gophers!!
 

Maximus said:
Proactive about what? The football team knew this was going to be released. 12 of the players were interviewed by the EOAA, along with at least 16 other students.
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You got that right. And their attorney should have been educating them about the U's disciplinary process. If nothing else, they could have googled it. There is very little doubt they all have smart phones.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

UNIVERSITY OF MINNESOTA TITLE IX COMPLAINT PROCESS

• Anyone can report Title IX violations committed by a University student. These violations should be reported to the Office of Equal Opportunity and Affirmative Action (EOAA], for investigation. University of Minnesota employees in the University of Minnesota Police Department, The Aurora Center (TAC), the Office for Student Conduct and Academic Integrity (OSCAI), or Housing and Residential Life (HRL) will refer students to EOAA to submit a report.

• A trained EOAA staff person will thoroughly investigate the report. The investigator will first interview the reporting party to gather as much information as possible about the incident. The investigator will also interview relevant witnesses including those provided by the reporting party, before contacting the accused student. The EOAA office will notify the accused student writing about the complaint, available resources and to schedule an interview to discuss the alleged violations.

• The EOAA investigator will interview the accused student and any witnesses identified by the accused student. It might also be necessary to meet with the reporting party a second time to ask any additional questions that arose during the investigation process.

• EOAA will also collect information such as copies of text messages, email correspondence, VM recordings, medical reports, video recordings from surveillance cameras when available, and any other relevant evidence.

• EOAA will explain the process to both parties.

• After all the interviews are completed, EOAA will prepare a report in which they analyze the facts and determine whether or not the accused student is responsible for violating the UMN Board of Regents Student Conduct Code based on the preponderance of evidence. (This means that based upon the information gathered during the investigation it is more likely than not that the policy was or was not violated.) EOAA will then forward the investigation report to OSCAI.

• OSCAI sends an email to the reporting party and the accused student informing them of the outcome of the investigation. The email will include a determination as to whether the student conduct code was violated, and a proposed informal resolution. In this letter, OSCAI notifies both the reporting party and the accused student of their right to have the case heard before a formal hearing panel consisting of faculty, staff and students if either of the parties are dissatisfied with the outcome The letter will also indicate that either party can request a copy of the investigation report The parties have five days to request a formal hearing. (If either party requests a meeting with OSCAI to discuss the informal resolution, the time to request a formal hearing will be extended to 5 days from the date of the meeting.

• Both parties can choose to have an advocate, and or an attorney/advisor and may request one extension to the deadline of no more than 10 days.)


HEARING

If either party requests a formal hearing, the matter will be forwarded to the Campus Committee on Student Behavior. (CCSB) A panel of faculty, staff and students will hear testimony and review evidence from both parties. The panel will then determine if the accused student is or is not responsible, and if responsible determine the appropriate sanction.

http://oscai.umn.edu/title-ix-process


CAMPUS COMMITTEE ON STUDENT BEHAVIOR HEARING PROCEDURES

A. INTRODUCTION

The Campus Committee on Student Behavior (CCSB) assists in implementing the Board of Regents Policy: Student Conduct Code at the University of Minnesota on the Twin Cities Campus. The CCSB provides a fair hearing to determine if a student’s behavior has violated the Student Conduct Code and to determine what, if any, sanction should be imposed.

Complaints of Student Conduct Code violations are referred to the CCSB for a hearing by the Office for Student Conduct and Academic Integrity (OSCAI). The CCSB Secretary receives the complaints and assists the CCSB Chair in managing the hearing process.

B. PARTIES TO THE COMPLAINT

In CCSB cases, the University is the formal complainant and the accused student is the individual alleged by the University to be in violation of the Student Conduct Code. For the purpose of these procedures, the parties are identified as the University presenter and the accused student. The University appoints a presenter to bring the University’s case before the Committee. If an accused student is represented by an attorney, the University’s Office of the General Counsel will assign an attorney to serve as the University presenter. Students may obtain the services of an advocate through the Student Conflict Resolution Center, who can help them prepare and present their case before the CCSB. The accused student must submit the name of any advocate or attorney to the CCSB Secretary before the prehearing conference, and must give immediate notice to the CCSB Secretary if there is any change in an advocate or attorney.

C. COMMITTEE AND PANELS

The Senate Committee on Committees appoints faculty, staff, and student members to the CCSB. Panels are drawn from the CCSB to hear individual cases. A CCSB Panel consists of the Panel Chair and a panel of five (5) or more voting members. Each Panel will include at least one faculty and one student, not including periods when the University is not in session. The Panel Chair and the CCSB Secretary have no vote. The CCSB Chair normally serves as the Panel Chair, but may delegate that role to another CCSB member.

In addition to Panel members, the Dean of the accused student’s college appoints a faculty, staff, or student to sit on the Panel. In cases involving cross-collegiate situations, a representative from each college is appointed to the Panel. Collegiate-appointed panel members have a vote and are counted in the quorum of five. Collegiate representation is not applicable when the accused is a student organization.

Panel members are not advocates for either side. The Panel shall fairly consider the information presented at the hearing and may ask questions of the witnesses. The Panel shall decide whether the accused student violated the Student Conduct Code and, if so, what sanctions are appropriate. The Panel may not talk privately (outside of the hearing room) about the complaint with the parties or their advocates.

D. CASES OF HARM TO PERSON OR SEXUAL ASSAULT

For hearings involving violations of sexual assault, sexual harassment, stalking, or relationship violence, the panel membership will be limited to five (5) members, one of which shall be a collegiate representative. These hearings will be held as soon as possible.

E. THE COMPLAINT AND SCHEDULING

When a complaint is not resolved informally, OSCAI forwards it to the CCSB Secretary for a hearing. The CCSB Secretary will notify the CCSB Chair, the University presenter, and the accused student of the statement of the complaint, the Student Conduct Code, and these procedures. Where more than one student is alleged to have violated the Student Conduct Code in a related incident, CCSB proceedings generally will be held together. The Chair has discretion to hold separate hearings upon a student’s request prior to the prehearing conference.

The CCSB will strive to complete a hearing within one month of the student’s request for a hearing, not including periods when the University is not in session. The CCSB Secretary will be responsible for scheduling a prehearing conference and the hearing, taking into account the parties’ academic schedules as appropriate. The CCSB Secretary generally will provide at least 5 days notice before the prehearing conference.

F. STUDENT STATUS DURING THE PROCESS

An accused student ordinarily is allowed to continue the status of a student-in-good-standing pending the outcome of the CCSB hearing. However, in certain cases, the President or delegate may suspend a student temporarily, pending the CCSB’s hearing and decision, as provided in the Student Conduct Code. In such situations, the CCSB should hold a hearing as soon as possible. In complaints of alleged scholastic dishonesty, any grade affected will be redacted from the transcript pending a disposition from the Panel.

http://usenate.umn.edu/ccsb/ccsbprocedures.pdf
 


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