Tweets about the players' trial regarding restraining orders...

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Correct me if I'm wrong. There were two events.

1. The alleged sexual assault and
2. Harassment after no charges were filed. The RO was based on the Harassment?

or was RO based on all events?
 

MaxyJR1 said:
Correct me if I'm wrong. There were two events.

1. The alleged sexual assault and
2. Harassment after no charges were filed. The RO was based on the Harassment?

or was RO based on all events?
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Good question.
 

Pompous Elitist said:
No, but oftentimes bad outcomes in all areas of life can be avoided with a modicum of self-preservation and wariness. Obviously the criminal goes to prison. Understand the difference? Once broken, an egg cannot be be made whole again. Sending the criminal to prison or banning them from football does little to nothing to heal her. I would guess she will alter her behaviors in some ways going forward. Wouldn't you?

You're insinuating she was gang-raped. In reality, she said the sex with Djam was consensual, and she has no clear memories of the rest of the night. I'll be waiting on the memory data you alluded to earlier.

Also, the agreement stipulates no civil suits from either side.

More details here: http://www.mprnews.org/story/2016/11/02/u-minnesota-football-players-restraining-orders-dropped
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That's not exactly what she testified to according to the mprnews story you linked.
 

You're insinuating she was gang-raped. In reality, she said the sex with Djam was consensual, and she has no clear memories of the rest of the night. I'll be waiting on the memory data you alluded to earlier.

Also, the agreement stipulates no civil suits from either side.

More details here: http://www.mprnews.org/story/2016/11...orders-dropped
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According to the same link you posted, she believes Djam raped her, and she believes that the rest of the night, the other players took turns raping her. There's also the possibility it was videoed
 

Re: your second paragraph I suspect Ms. Isenor counseled the young lady that because she was intoxicated there is no consensual sex. Isn't that the memo? It's also wrong.

Actually, I have an extremely good recall of traumatic events, and this is supported by actual consensus science (bring your evidence whenever you're ready regarding the fractured memory issue). I can recall every detail of the car accident I was involved in as a passenger. We played it over so many times in our minds in the days afteward it's like it happened yesterday. In fact, that is the usual situation with trauma and PTSD. The memories are all too vivid. Trauma and stress are excellent ways to form permanent memories. Is that infallible. Nope. No memories are 100 percent infallible. Why did the alleged victim say Kiondre was involved then change her mind?
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She was most likely drunk, which keeps from legally consenting, and is the reason she can't remember.
 


MaxyJR1 said:
Correct me if I'm wrong. There were two events.

1. The alleged sexual assault and
2. Harassment after no charges were filed. The RO was based on the Harassment?

or was RO based on all events?
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When you get a protective order you give all the reasons for it. A criminal case (prosecuted or not) has no bearing when you ask for the order.

So the protective order could encompass both. Clearly they were asking about both at the hearing.
 


All this is easily avoided if the players act responsibly to begin with. You would think people who are given a less than once in a lifetime opportunity at a paid college education and chance to play at the highest level of college sports would value that a little more and think about what they are doing. Personally, I would've had no problem with them all being dismissed from the team just from the bad PR it brings the program, especially when the U has had so much bad press over the last couple years. They aren't just football players, they are ambassadors for the U and this kind of coverage helps no one.
 

Ski U Master said:
All this is easily avoided if the players act responsibly to begin with. You would think people who are given a less than once in a lifetime opportunity at a paid college education and chance to play at the highest level of college sports would value that a little more and think about what they are doing. Personally, I would've had no problem with them all being dismissed from the team just from the bad PR it brings the program, especially when the U has had so much bad press over the last couple years. They aren't just football players, they are ambassadors for the U and this kind of coverage helps no one.
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You could say You'd think people would act responsibly about 95% of what you see in the news, but then you'd not say it anymore.
 



Ski U Master said:
All this is easily avoided if the players act responsibly to begin with. You would think people who are given a less than once in a lifetime opportunity at a paid college education and chance to play at the highest level of college sports would value that a little more and think about what they are doing. Personally, I would've had no problem with them all being dismissed from the team just from the bad PR it brings the program, especially when the U has had so much bad press over the last couple years. They aren't just football players, they are ambassadors for the U and this kind of coverage helps no one.
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Did you go to college? The party described happens hundreds (yes hundreds) of times every weekend.
 

bottlebass said:
Did you go to college? The party described happens hundreds (yes hundreds) of times every weekend.
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Yes I went to college. No problem for a typical undergrad to get in trouble like this, the public doesn't care about them. Football players need to realize they can't act like a "normal" student, they are special (as I'm sure everyone tells them) and that means their actions are going to be held to a different standard.
 

Ski U Master said:
All this is easily avoided if the players act responsibly to begin with. You would think people who are given a less than once in a lifetime opportunity at a paid college education and chance to play at the highest level of college sports would value that a little more and think about what they are doing. Personally, I would've had no problem with them all being dismissed from the team just from the bad PR it brings the program, especially when the U has had so much bad press over the last couple years. They aren't just football players, they are ambassadors for the U and this kind of coverage helps no one.
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Kind of a slippery slope you are proposing with the bad PR angle. We'll likely never truly know the details in this situation but it is a fact that they were suspended, there were no charges filed after a lengthy investigation, and the restraining orders were dismissed...not narrowed, but dismissed.
 




Ski U Master said:
Yes I went to college. No problem for a typical undergrad to get in trouble like this, the public doesn't care about them. Football players need to realize they can't act like a "normal" student, they are special (as I'm sure everyone tells them) and that means their actions are going to be held to a different standard.
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Interesting take...I had no idea who half these guys were until they got suspended, much like the other 45K+ students at the U. What if this same situation happened with, say, a group of students who were receiving full academic scholarships?
 

goooogophers said:
What party are you referring to? The alleged gang rape?
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The parties where college kids get too drunk and into questionable situations. These happen all over campus every weekend. I had friends in college who went through what this victim is going through and friends who went through what the football players are going through (although on a solo basis, who would really want so many wieners in one room?). Alcohol is a very bad drug.
 

Ski U Master said:
All this is easily avoided if the players act responsibly to begin with. You would think people who are given a less than once in a lifetime opportunity at a paid college education and chance to play at the highest level of college sports would value that a little more and think about what they are doing. Personally, I would've had no problem with them all being dismissed from the team just from the bad PR it brings the program, especially when the U has had so much bad press over the last couple years. They aren't just football players, they are ambassadors for the U and this kind of coverage helps no one.
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If they were Frat Boys we probably wouldn't have heard about it at all. There are exceptions of course.

https://search.yahoo.com/search?ei=utf-8&fr=aaplw&p=fratranties+charged+with+assault
 

Ski U Master said:
Yes I went to college. No problem for a typical undergrad to get in trouble like this, the public doesn't care about them. Football players need to realize they can't act like a "normal" student, they are special (as I'm sure everyone tells them) and that means their actions are going to be held to a different standard.
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You are correct, a normal students name wouldn't have been destroyed by the media in a situation like this. How special they must feel that their names will always be associated with this. At the end of the day they are all still college students and college students make mistakes.

I'm sure they have heard multiple speeches by the coaches and athletics department about being responsible adults.
 

bottlebass said:
The parties where college kids get too drunk and into questionable situations. These happen all over campus every weekend. I had friends in college who went through what this victim is going through and friends who went through what the football players are going through (although on a solo basis, who would really want so many wieners in one room?). Alcohol is a very bad drug.
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Thank you for clarifying. Yes, whenever alcohol is introduced into a situation the line between bad people and bad actions definitely gets slightly blurred.
 


scools12 said:
I did read the whole article. She doesn't believe it was consensual.
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She has said both. She stated to investigators that it was consensual with him, which is included in this article.
 

This event did not happen in a vacuum. Less than a year ago, the gopher Men's basketball team was involved in an incident involving video of a sexual encounter where several people were in the room as witnesses and/or participants. As a result of that incident, several Gopher student-athletes were suspended, and one wound up leaving school.

Obviously, I don't know what coaches say to players behind closed doors, but I would be shocked if the coaches of every single athletic team at the U did not talk to their players about the previous incident, and explain the consequences of getting into this type of situation.

It's pretty damn simple: if you're a scholarship athlete, don't put yourself in questionable situations. If you wind up in a situation involving a woman, alcohol, and multiple men - AND you're a scholarship athlete, a huge alarm bell should be going off in your head saying "GET THE HELL OUT OF HERE!!!!!"

I don't know exactly what happened in this new situation, but it seems reasonably clear that a group of scholarship athletes from the FB team allowed themselves to get into a situation that resulted in a criminal investigation, a restraining order being filed, and a court hearing. That - IMHO - shows very poor decision-making on their part. I don't care if this involves the best player on the team, or the worst player on the team. They deserved the suspension, and I would have no problem if the coaching staff released any of these players from their scholarships - or at the very least, made it crystal-clear to all of the players that it's zero tolerance from this point on. Get into any trouble - violate any team rule - and you're gone. If that hurts the team's performance, well, the blame is with the players. I would hope there will be some peer pressure from their teammates to stay out of trouble in the future.
 

short ornery norwegian said:
This event did not happen in a vacuum. Less than a year ago, the gopher Men's basketball team was involved in an incident involving video of a sexual encounter where several people were in the room as witnesses and/or participants. As a result of that incident, several Gopher student-athletes were suspended, and one wound up leaving school.

Obviously, I don't know what coaches say to players behind closed doors, but I would be shocked if the coaches of every single athletic team at the U did not talk to their players about the previous incident, and explain the consequences of getting into this type of situation.

It's pretty damn simple: if you're a scholarship athlete, don't put yourself in questionable situations. If you wind up in a situation involving a woman, alcohol, and multiple men - AND you're a scholarship athlete, a huge alarm bell should be going off in your head saying "GET THE HELL OUT OF HERE!!!!!"

I don't know exactly what happened in this new situation, but it seems reasonably clear that a group of scholarship athletes from the FB team allowed themselves to get into a situation that resulted in a criminal investigation, a restraining order being filed, and a court hearing. That - IMHO - shows very poor decision-making on their part. I don't care if this involves the best player on the team, or the worst player on the team. They deserved the suspension, and I would have no problem if the coaching staff released any of these players from their scholarships - or at the very least, made it crystal-clear to all of the players that it's zero tolerance from this point on. Get into any trouble - violate any team rule - and you're gone. If that hurts the team's performance, well, the blame is with the players. I would hope there will be some peer pressure from their teammates to stay out of trouble in the future.
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I think the Brian Smith(sp?) situation will remind them of this. That and the possibility they could have done hard time. Hopefully others will learn from this as well.
 

short ornery norwegian said:
This event did not happen in a vacuum. Less than a year ago, the gopher Men's basketball team was involved in an incident involving video of a sexual encounter where several people were in the room as witnesses and/or participants. As a result of that incident, several Gopher student-athletes were suspended, and one wound up leaving school.

Obviously, I don't know what coaches say to players behind closed doors, but I would be shocked if the coaches of every single athletic team at the U did not talk to their players about the previous incident, and explain the consequences of getting into this type of situation.

It's pretty damn simple: if you're a scholarship athlete, don't put yourself in questionable situations. If you wind up in a situation involving a woman, alcohol, and multiple men - AND you're a scholarship athlete, a huge alarm bell should be going off in your head saying "GET THE HELL OUT OF HERE!!!!!"

I don't know exactly what happened in this new situation, but it seems reasonably clear that a group of scholarship athletes from the FB team allowed themselves to get into a situation that resulted in a criminal investigation, a restraining order being filed, and a court hearing. That - IMHO - shows very poor decision-making on their part. I don't care if this involves the best player on the team, or the worst player on the team. They deserved the suspension, and I would have no problem if the coaching staff released any of these players from their scholarships - or at the very least, made it crystal-clear to all of the players that it's zero tolerance from this point on. Get into any trouble - violate any team rule - and you're gone. If that hurts the team's performance, well, the blame is with the players. I would hope there will be some peer pressure from their teammates to stay out of trouble in the future.
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Again, very slippery slope you are suggesting. No arrests, no charges, dismissed ROs. If they planned to release them, why would they have waited until now, especially since the ROs have been dismissed?
 

scools12 said:
I did read the whole article. She doesn't believe it was consensual.
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Was it or wasn't it? If it wasn't, it's rape and a crime. There should be a restraining order and all sorts of arrests should be made.. If it was, then no crime was committed, and no restraining order should have been even considered. There's no such thing as a restraining order because you're embarassing of what you did willingly. What a world.
 

bottlebass said:
The parties where college kids get too drunk and into questionable situations. These happen all over campus every weekend. I had friends in college who went through what this victim is going through and friends who went through what the football players are going through (although on a solo basis, who would really want so many wieners in one room?). Alcohol is a very bad drug.
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You know what's worse than alcohol? Young men who think they can have intercourse with any girl who isn't strong enough or sober enough to resist them.
 

highwayman said:
Was it or wasn't it? If it wasn't, it's rape and a crime. There should be a restraining order and all sorts of arrests should be made.. If it was, then no crime was committed, and no restraining order should have been even considered. There's no such thing as a restraining order because you're embarassing of what you did willingly. What a world.
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Seriously don't know what to make of this post...
 

What is with so many of these situations where there are multiple guys with one girl at the same time? The last thing I would have wanted is my friends around while I'm with a girl.
 

GophersInIowa said:
What is with so many of these situations where there are multiple guys with one girl at the same time? The last thing I would have wanted is my friends around while I'm with a girl.
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I wasn't going to say it, but since you brought that dynamic into it, I've always thought it smacks of homoeroticism to want to watch your friends or have them watch you...even more so to share the same girl. I guess these young men don't agree.
 


It's under discussion. I didn't say it did or didn't happen, but it's implied in previous posts, and there's a history of it in our athletic department. Should I refrain from replying to those posts until you're satisfied with the evidence?
 

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